User talk:28bytes/Archive 6

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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DYK for Open Your Eyes (Yes song)

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

When to use ANI

Tell me how to decide when ANI is to be used, as I made an obvious mistake.Jasper Deng (talk) 19:57, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Jasper. In general I recommend staying away from AN/I. There are a few things non-admins can do there (like reporting unusual issues that aren't covered by WP:ANEW, WP:RFPP, WP:AIV or other specific noticeboards) but by and large we non-admins tend to get in the way there, and should leave it to the admins to take care of things there. If you run across a specific issue that you think the admins should be aware of, and it doesn't fall into the typical categories of vandalism, edit-warring, etc., check with me or another mentor first before posting there; we may be able to direct you to a more appropriate venue. Thanks for asking! 28bytes (talk) 20:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

In addition, please tell me how to avoid wikilawyering in the tone of my comments.Jasper Deng (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

It's hard to say without a specific example, but if you're talking about Eagles' comment here, I think the point is that the blocked user feels that people keep harping on his edit-warring without considering (or even reading) the specific edits he made. But in this case, you've agreed to leave that user alone, which solves the problem nicely. 28bytes (talk) 20:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

This comment too, but, I have had a history of wikilawyering - see my contribs on other blocked users' talk pages (like this).Jasper Deng (talk) 21:01, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

So... why are you commenting on blocked users' talk pages? You should probably not do that. 28bytes (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm a TPS a lot of times, and, often see other users previously uninvolved commenting as well. Sometimes though I'm actually involved in a dispute with the editor in question.Jasper Deng (talk) 21:18, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

My advice is to avoid commenting on blocked users' talk pages. You don't want to give the appearance of "rubbing it in" that they're blocked. 28bytes (talk) 21:21, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

That is what I've been exactly trying to do ("rubbing it in"). Before the recent ANI thread, I would ABF with users who constantly deny their block reasons, but, now I have to be different. The user talk page I mentioned was an example where the user actually was AGF'ing, and I AGF'd too initially, but then ABF'd when the user started to deny CU evidence. Being someone who understands how the internet works, I felt that I should chime in. My habit overall resulted from me being encouraged my the resolvation of WQA threads.Jasper Deng (talk) 21:24, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

You're probably best off avoiding dispute resolution entirely. It can be tricky to get the hang of, and it's not for everyone. 28bytes (talk) 21:28, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have to go through it when having a content dispute, and for me, those went rather roughly. See Talk:Windows MultiPoint Server.Jasper Deng (talk) 21:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, yes, you'll want to use dispute resolution if you're in a dispute. I'm just suggesting not seeking out disputes to "resolve." 28bytes (talk) 21:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with this on the short term; however, I plan to return to it in the future, after I've been more conditioned on this.Jasper Deng (talk) 21:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, let's just worry about the short term for now. :) 28bytes (talk) 21:38, 21 April 2011 (UTC)+

I'm now likening User talk:DeadSend4 to a caged lion. I may not be correct, but, I think this user needs a block extension and/or removal of talk page access.Jasper Deng (talk) 21:41, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Let's let the admins handle that. There are several admins watching that page, and they can figure out whether those actions are necessary. 28bytes (talk) 23:52, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

RfA reform

Hi 28. Thanks for chiming in so quickly and saving a situation. A lot of the discussion is still about telling us what is wrong with RfA. We all know what is wrong already, and the project needs to be kept free of endless perennial talk. The project needs to be prevented from being turned into the new venue for WT:RfA which is now practically devoid of customers. Changing pubs is great, but moving a pub to the office is not such a good idea. It would be great if participants (and they are of course not all task force members) would focus on the main issues and help move them forward. Unfortunately, only a handful of task force members seem to be participating and I'm beginning to wonder if some of them have not fully understood the objectives of a work group like this, especially when some of them are now going off at half-tack and starting their own central RfC on topic like clerks, etc. This is a sure fire way to ensure that reform will never succeed. I have limited Internet access for the next few days, could you keep a close eye on the new posts and intervene if possible to chivvy things along, and perhaps consider adding yourself to the list of coordinators? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:31, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, happy to pitch in. I'll be traveling a lot over the next week, but I'll do what I can when I'm online. I agree, the discussion has become rather sprawling; I'll try to think of ways we can regain some focus. 28bytes (talk) 04:04, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

!

When this is put in front of a word on Wikipedia (like !vote), what does it mean?Jasper Deng (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) See WP:!VOTE near the bottom of the section. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:54, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Blocking of admins

User:Ohnoitsjamie was recently blocked for edit warring, and some people say he misused his admin powers, which if I remember right, is punishable by desysopping. Can you tell me why something like this is controversial and how?Jasper Deng (talk) 20:30, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Like you and me, admins are human (well, a few aren't) and can make mistakes. Admins who block another admin often bring the matter to AN/I for wider review as a courtesy: I don't believe there's any requirement that they do so. If an admin blocks someone they're having a content dispute with, that's considered a violation of WP:INVOLVED and can lead to desysopping if they do it unapologetically and/or repeatedly. 28bytes (talk) 22:26, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

According to the page about misuse of admin tools, even a first-time offense can lead to a desysopping.Jasper Deng (talk) 23:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

My interpretation of that is that the "first-time offense" language refers to wheel-warring actions rather than the using of tools while involved. Nonetheless, if I were an admin, I wouldn't test it to find out. 28bytes (talk) 23:49, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Luckily, we have like 1800 admins and only maybe a hundred cases of desysopping :) .Jasper Deng (talk) 00:02, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Expansion of Stevie "Keys" Roseman" page

Hi there 28bytes, we noticed that you had worked on this page previously. Is it possible for you to take the time to expand the page a bit more by adding some fields for Stevie that are applicable? Have absolutely no idea how to proceed and if you have the time that would be very much appreciated. If there are any other page designs or references that you might suggest please use your expertise to make this better as you seem to know what you are doing. Thanks so much.

Jets23615 (talk) 22:36, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Discography and references
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
1) Discography listings a) With Journey on the following albums: "Captured" "Time3" "The Essential Journey" b) With Neal Schon on "Piranha Blues" c) With No Nation on "Illumine" d) With VTR (Valory -Tickner - Roseman) on "Cinema" e) With Mic Gillette on "Ear Candy" 2) References a)https://www.facebook.com/pages/STEVIE-KEYS-ROSEMAN/214601455134?ref=ts b) ) http://www.myspace.com/steviekeysroseman c) http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/rvgtsr d) http://www.nonationmusic.com/ e) http://www.myspace.com/steviekeysroseman f) http://www.myspace.com/nonationmusic f) http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nonation 3) Under "Stevie Roseman" a) Signature photo (shown on Facebook page) b) Specialty Instrument listings under Keyboards - Hammond B-3, Acoustic Piano, Clavinet 4) Years active - 1966 to present

Hi Jets23615. We can't use Facebook or Myspace as references, but the discography should be simple enough to add if I can find a reliable source for it. I'll take a look sometime this week and see what I can find. 28bytes (talk) 22:41, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Collaboration?

Unfortunately, my RfA fell through. I'm not to be disheartened, though; in a way, I'm actually kinda glad I failed. The RfA failing means I get (much) more time to alleviate the concerns from this time around, before any successful run. I've posted my own little follow-up at User talk:Dylan620#After the RfA, in case you're interested.

Now, onto the main reason why I've decided to drop by. Since I'm going to be working on more content over the forseeable future, I have my eyes set on "The Hurt" by Cat Stevens; it was a US Top 40 hit of his. I've seen your work creating articles on older rock songs, so I was wondering if we could create an article on "The Hurt" together? --Dylan620 ^{(I'm all ears)} 06:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I'll be happy to work with you on that. I have a copy of Joel Whitburn's Billboard Book of Top 40 Hits at home, which is always a good starting point for chart stats. It will have the week it debuted in the Top 40. Looks like the Cat Stevens discography article has some other stats you can use if you can dig up sources for them. I don't know a whole lot about Stevens, do you have any books about him? 28bytes (talk) 13:06, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Just to follow up: why don't you start the article at User:Dylan620/The Hurt and we can work on it together there until it's ready for mainspace? I normally just go directly to mainspace with my articles but this will give us some time to build it first. Also, if we want to make a DYK out of it, we won't have any time pressure to worry about, since the 5-day clock only starts ticking once the article is moved to mainspace. This magazine article, referenced in Foreigner (Cat Stevens album), has some interesting info about the song, and almost (but not quite) suggests that the song was inspired by his bout with TB, which could make an interesting DYK hook if phrased carefully enough. However, I don't want to use that link as a ref until I'm certain it's not reprinting copyrighted magazine content without permission. Getting an actual copy of that issue might be tough. 28bytes (talk) 02:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply; I've been a bit busier than usual as of late. I'm afraid I don't have any books about Cat Stevens, though Google Books turned up some results (see here for results with previews/full views). I should have more time to look for sources tomorrow (TGIF). And cool article, thanks for digging that up. --Dylan620 ^{(I'm all ears)} 00:42, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Revision of Stevie "Keys" Roseman page

Terrific, thanks 28bytes. As you can see we had no idea that social networking sites are not usable - clueless but there are numerous references out there for Stevie. Discography, picture and anything else you might suggest to improve this page - will watch with interest to see what you come up with. Cheers! (Jets23615 (talk) 09:26, 27 April 2011 (UTC))

Just to let you know, work is really busy this week, so it might take me a while before I get a chance to work on the page. It's definitely on my to-do list, though! Do you know if Roseman has an official site/personal homepage (other than Myspace/Facebook)? 28bytes (talk) 02:55, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I can't find an actual home page for Stevie although there are numerous references to his work with Journey, VTR, Neal Schon, No Nation and Mic Gillette from the Tower Of Power. Will let you know if I see anything. You have already added some items, looks much better. Can the picture from his "Stevie Keys" FB site be used instead of just a link to a picture? Cheers! (Jets23615 (talk) 20:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC))

Hi Jets23615. We can't use an image from Facebook (long story short: images of living people generally have to be released under a free license) but if he released that image or another one under one of the free licenses (or public domain) we could. Here's the guide on how to do that. It's a little confusing, but basically if he sends an e-mail saying he releases the photo as "CC-BY-SA" or public domain, we can add it to the article. 28bytes (talk) 09:22, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the revert

Sheesh - I'm not sure WHAT the heck happened on ANI. I truly borked that up, didn't I? Appreciate the quick revert on that. Time for food (or a beer, or both ...)! Ravensfire (talk) 16:49, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

No worries. I figured it was just a slip of the mouse. 28bytes (talk) 16:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Judaic views of wealth and poverty

Hi, I've been working on trying to create an article along the lines of the failed attempt by Noleander to write on Jews and money. First, I took a little detour and created History of investment banking in the United States (which uses about 3-4 paragraphs from Jews and money). Then, I turned my attention to IZAK's failed attempt at writing an article on the Economic history of the Christians and created Christian views on poverty and wealth. I am now working on a draft of an article on Judaic views of wealth and poverty. Could you take a look at it and give me your suggestions for improvement? Thanx. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 04:17, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Pseudo-Richard, thanks for the note. Unfortunately real-life obligations are limiting my Wikipedia time at the moment, so I'm not going to be able to give those drafts the analysis they deserve. Did you get a chance to contact the Wikiprojects I mentioned? I suspect they'll be able to offer helpful suggestions on your work. 28bytes (talk) 14:22, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/SarekOfVulcan 2

Do you think I could ask you to provide a reason for your 'support' at Sarek's RfA? Thanks, and sorry to interfere. ╟─TreasuryTag►Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster─╢ 21:47, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Be happy to. 28bytes (talk) 21:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Rationale added. FWIW the terseness of the "support" wasn't anything to do with the candidate so much as the thought that there'd be another hundred re-confirmation RfAs coming down the pike today inspired by HJ's and Sarek's, and I didn't really have the energy to preemptively comment at length on all of 'em. But I'm always happy to "explain on demand." 28bytes (talk) 22:09, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome

For this. His request just set that one right up. Daniel Case (talk) 14:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

FYI

FYI. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that. I think iridescent covered it well. 28bytes (talk) 20:31, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Can you (either Eagles or 28bytes) see if you can persuade him that WP:SPAM, WP:COI and WP:EL don't say what he thinks they say? He may listen to you; his fingers seem to be firmly in his ears when it comes to me, so I'm going to withdraw from his talkpage. I'm very reluctant to issue any kind of warning myself; while it shouldn't be the case, in reality any warning I give even in a personal capacity will be seen by some as a warning by Arbcom in his talkpage history. Given that he's obviously trying to help and just overenthusiastic, he doesn't deserve to have something like that hanging over him. – iridescent 23:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll give it a shot. 28bytes (talk) 23:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Hey

So for some reason, I've had a complete change of heart about reconfirmation idea for RfA reform. I'm going to keep that idea in my back pocket, but I think right now we should move forward with something to get our members involved (as you suggested). Do you have any ideas for a message? Regards, Swarm ^X 20:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Were you for it and now against it, or vice versa? As for the message, I still think asking folks for their top two or three ideas for improving the process would be a good way to go. 28bytes (talk) 20:38, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

If you'll recall I was the one pushing the reconfirmation idea, which would have included your idea. I don't quite feel as strongly about the reconfirmation part anymore and I don't think it's necessary (for now), however I think we should still move forward with your idea. I was planning on making a template message to send out and I'm just trying to get an idea of what I should have it say. You're essentially the person who suggested this, which is why I'm asking you. :) Swarm ^X 03:34, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I'll be happy to work up some wording... if you can wait until Monday. I'm about to head out of town on vacation for a few days. 28bytes (talk) 16:13, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks, Swarm ^X 17:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Help please

I am trying to AGF as much as possible, but, the user Fountainviewkid (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), BelloWello (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Kuru (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and Lionelt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are having a big dispute, involving gaming the system, that I'm partially involved in based on the fact that I oppose tone of the the first user's additions.Jasper Deng (talk) 04:24, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look at the dispute. In the meantime, please hold off on further edits in that area, and please do not hand out any more templated warnings to anybody. 28bytes (talk) 09:10, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Jasper, I've asked Kansan to help with this one, as I am going to be out of town for the next few days. 28bytes (talk) 16:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Editing Cars articles

I'm really getting the impression you don't respect me too much anymore. I will agree, i do edit and create too much, but We've been editing bud's for a while now. I guess i let my opinion's take over my side that knows everything has to be sourced. Well, I've decided to take a break from Wikipedia and see what happens to some of The Cars articles. most of the pages i create, i source, but the genres, well, i like to throw in opinions. But that's how every last genre was posted in Cars songs. Whether it was from the source able reviewers or the user's at wikipedia that overthrow in opinions. Well, I'm gonna edit a couple of last few things and be on my way, take care!MajorHawke (talk) 16:49, 7 May 2011 (UTC)