Talk:Toronto/Archive 9

Adding Sister Cites

I think a sister cities section should be added near the end of the article line Chicago, it would be based off of Sister cities of Toronto. I think it would just be a neat thing to add, and it would be near the end so it wouldn't disturb the article. —  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 00:53, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

It's already in the main Toronto article near the end. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:10, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh, That's a very vague name, I think the name Sister Cities would fit it better. —  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 01:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

What do you think, @Leventio:? Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 06:36, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

@Leventio and Johnny Au: Adding International relations/sister cities as the heading or expanding International relations and adding Sister cities as a sub heading would also work. (I'm assuming the name already is International relations if it's not, then I mean the title it currently is) —  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 21:17, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm assuming its titled International relations as Toronto uses the term Partner Cities and Friendship Cities (the two are sorta different in that the former is more economically oriented than the latter) instead of just Sister city. That said, sister cities is the more widely used term for city articles (not to mention the name for Toronto's article is Sister cities of Toronto). Honestly, I'm sorta okay with either or, if anyone felt inclined to swap it for sister cities, I wouldn't be against the change. Leventio (talk) 07:32, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

@Leventio:How about doing something like this?

===Sister cities===

Main article: Sister cities of Toronto

Partnership cities

• Chongqing, China (1986)
• Chicago, Illinois, United States (1991)
• Frankfurt, Germany (1989)
• Lisbon, Portugal
• Milan, Italy (2002)
• São Paulo, Brazil

Friendship cities

• Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam (2006)
• Kyiv, Ukraine (1992)
• Quito, Ecuador (2006)
• Sagamihara, Japan (1991)
• Warsaw, Poland (1990)

—  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 16:08, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm okay with it, though I'd maintain the columns that are presently used in the article. Leventio (talk) 09:48, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. There is a bit of a disconnect between Sister cities and what Toronto calls them, but since Sister cities is the normal naming of this stuff I don't see an issue, they're just subtypes. Canterbury Tail talk 12:24, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

It is a great compromise between what Toronto calls them and what other cities call them. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 12:53, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Adding "the 6" as a nickname

I think the term as become popular enough that it should just be added. Some sources include: 12 3 4 5 6 There are also many companies name after it such as 1 2 3 —  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 01:04, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

It is indeed popular, but it belongs in Name of Toronto, where it is discussed in detail. That is the consensus that was formed. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:11, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

@Johnny Au: There's also other name I never heard of in the infobox and the six can't be in it? —  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 01:17, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

@Leventio: What do you think? Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 06:37, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

• Should remove the media crap and just use what real sources use....we are using media props names and missing a few historical names....

Alan Rayburn (2001). Naming Canada: Stories about Canadian Place Names. University of Toronto Press. pp. 47–. ISBN 978-0-8020-8293-0..--Moxy (talk) 13:32, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I agree. The vast majority of sources that use The Six as a nickname are primarily for marketing to the smartphone generation. I would like to see a serious academic use of The Six as a nickname, especially by those who are not in the field of marketing. We don't hear much of the use of "The Five" as a nickname of New York City for example, despite NYC being made up of five boroughs; "The Five Boroughs" is a nickname of NYC, while any use of "The Five" (without the Boroughs part) to refer to NYC would also primarily be used for the same purposes as calling Toronto "The Six." Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 14:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

@Johnny Au: True, but you don't have any big artist endorsing "The Five". Although "The Six" is used for marketing, it's still a nickname used by many people. Just because it's newer and became popular for different reasons doesn't mean it's not a nickname. —  BrandonXLF   ^{(t@lk) (ping back)} 21:08, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Honestly, (at least to me) this is one of those wait and see moments. I mean, I don't see the harm in leaving it off for now (since it is brought up in the Name of Toronto). If the Six has a lasting impact, a reliable/academic article on its usage will eventually surface (not to mention the time will give us a better gauge on the issue). Leventio (talk) 08:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Of those sources above only the Globe and Mail approaches a reliable source and it's more talking about Drake and his fans rather than any widespread use. Urban Dictionary is most definitely not a reliable source and the Toronto Sun one is far from a serious article and is solely relating it to Drake. Really needs more reliable sources and some sign of permanence. One of the articles even calls it out for that. Canterbury Tail talk 16:05, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

The Six would also be more likely to be included if it lasts at least a decade without Drake's further intervention to ensure that it isn't a fad nickname. Not many people nowadays, living or otherwise, call Toronto the Queen City after all. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 12:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Ha, even BlogTo, the biggest proponents of trying to make The Six some kind of nickname is now admitting no one calls it that. New article (ignore the date in the URL, the fabulous editors at BlogTo have messed up again). Canterbury Tail talk 13:14, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

BlogTO is notorious unreliable. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 15:57, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Oh hells yes. However in this case they were the main ones trying to lead the charge on The Six nickname, and even they have now given up. Canterbury Tail talk 12:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

BlogTO is not notable enough to have its own Wikipedia article. That tells you how untrustworthy it is. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:50, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Changes to city council

There needs to be an update to the government description because the Ontario government changed the number of city council seats from 47 to 25 in September 2018 for the October 17, 2018 election.

(I can't make the change due to the restrictions on editing this page.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanWeaver ca (talk • contribs) 04:49, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

The election is still several weeks away, and the current 44-incumbent council is still in place as of today. It'll get updated when the 25-member council actually gets sworn in, but as of today there's no information in that section that's wrong yet. Bearcat (talk) 13:23, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

To clarify for other potential editors, the change to 25 seats will take place after the swearing-in ceremonies on December 1, 2018, not immediately after the election results are known. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:31, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

This will be updated shortly once we have time. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 13:36, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Good Article Nomination

See here: Talk:Toronto/GA2

We can find better sources to bring this article to Good Article status. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 20:09, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposed removal of the "(single-tier)" from settlement_type parameter

Toronto's status as a single-tier municipality, as defined by the Ontario provincial government, does not appear to fit the settlement_type parameter in the articles infobox. There is nothing specific about population, area, density, or geography that makes Toronto or any other municipality a "single-tier" municipality, it is only a legal term created by the province. Furthermore, when there are townships that are also classified as "single-tier", like Brethour, Ontario that has a population of less than 100, it becomes a completely meaningless distinction. I propose retaining "Provincial capital city" to keep in line with the other regional capitals, while removing the meaningless "single-tier" status and moving it into the articles text. -- TrailBlzr (talk) 03:34, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Discussion also opened Here. TrailBlzr (talk) 04:20, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Suggesting to any interested editors to discuss this at the link provided above by TrailBlzr so as to keep the discussion in one location. Hwy43 (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2019

Change this paragraph in Toronto:Culture:Sports:

Toronto is represented in six major league sports, with teams in the National Hockey League, Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, Canadian Football League, Major League Soccer and Canadian Women's Hockey League. It was formerly represented in a seventh, the USL W-League, until that announced on November 6, 2015 that it would cease operation ahead of 2016 season.[122][123]

to this:

Toronto is represented in five major league sports, with teams in the National Hockey League, Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, Canadian Football League and Major League Soccer. It was formerly represented in a sixth, the Canadian Women's Hockey League which announced on March 31, 2019 that it would cease operations on May 1, 2019. [*] And prior to that it was also represented in a seventh, the USL W-League, until that announced on November 6, 2015 that it would cease operation ahead of 2016 season.[122][123]

[*] http://www.thecwhl.com/the-canadian-womens-hockey-league-to-discontinue-operations Cclarkemdi (talk) 16:31, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

 Done NiciVampireHeart 08:23, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Sports section

Toronto Defiant

Add the Overwatch League team, Toronto Defiant to the professional sports section. ThisIsAPug (talk) 05:00, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

@Leventio: @Canterbury Tail: @Alaney2k: What do you think of adding a subsection for e-sports teams? If there are reliable sources, then it can be included. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:15, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

You mistyped my name above, but I still noticed this. Honestly I think e-sports are as valid as regular sports in general, so that doesn't bother me in any way. However the question here is are they really notable enough to be mentioned on the main Toronto city page. Toronto has lots of small sports teams that are more successful than Toronto Defiant, and with more history, that are not mentioned on the article. And Toronto Defiant are only a year old. What are other city articles doing with regards to this sort of team? I think we should just treat them as any other sports team and go from there. At this point the team has no notable players, hasn't won anything, has existed only a year and is only 6 people, so I'm kinda dubious in all honesty. If this were a traditional sports team of 6 people, no notable players, hadn't won any competitions or had a lot of investment, would we include them? Attempts to add these teams to city articles of Dallas, Los Angeles and others have been remove as non-notable. However willing to be persuaded. Canterbury Tail talk 01:35, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Apologies for misspelling your name, Canterbury Tail. As much as I am all for including e-sports teams, I agree that there are numerous more notable small Toronto-based professional sports teams (such as the Intercounty Baseball League's Toronto Maple Leafs (not to be confused with the more famous hockey Leafs)) than the Defiant and with a history much longer than video games in general. There are not many reliable sources for the Defiant, as most are either sourced from the Defiant themselves, their opponents, or from Blizzard Entertainment (which makes the Overwatch game that the Defiant play) and those three all constitute primary sources (and the individual players themselves aren't notable). There is a very good reason why the main Dallas and the Los Angeles articles (and a few others) have mentions of their respective Overwatch League teams removed. By the way, can the Toronto Defiant be added to Sports in Toronto and/or List of sports teams in Toronto instead? Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:56, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I mean, so long as the sources are good, I don't see why there couldn't be a section for esports in Sports in Toronto. Leventio (talk) 04:33, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree. I even added a note to the main Toronto article about e-sports teams. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:54, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Toronto Arrows

So... I helped someone add the Toronto Arrows onto the list of sports teams. But taking into account of the last discussion on esports, and the hidden note on niche sports teams (I removed it though, cause it was in relation to a defunct team), do we have a criteria for entry into that list? Leventio (talk) 01:27, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

That is a good question. The points I made in the previous section still stand, regardless if it is played on a field, played on a court, played on a rink, played in a pool, played on gymnastics equipment, played on a tabletop, played on a computer, or played on a video game console. @Canterbury Tail: What do you think? Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 12:55, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Same comments as above. Is the team notable enough that an international audience would find it interesting to have them mentioned on a general article about Toronto? Looks like a pretty new minor competition league and team to me, so not convinced it should be on the main Toronto page. Not of close to the same level as the likes of the Toronto Wolfpack. Canterbury Tail talk 21:36, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

As before, I believe that both Toronto Arrows and Toronto Defiant could be added to Sports in Toronto and List of sports teams in Toronto as long as they are reliably sourced. Toronto Arrows and Toronto Defiant are both too new to add to the main article for now. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:34, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Probably shoulda put this in the original post as well, but should we also move Toronto Eagles, and Toronto Rush to the Sports in Toronto article? Cause (in addition to Arrows), these were the other two teams that made me ask this question.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Leventio (talk • contribs)

Maybe we should draw a hard line for inclusion, such as only professional sports teams or the like. There is a lot of non-notable and non-professional sports teams in Toronto. Canterbury Tail talk 14:51, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

How about this? Professional non-esports and collegiate sports teams can be mentioned in the Toronto article by name, while e-sports teams and non-professional non-collegiate sports teams can be mentioned in Sports in Toronto and List of sports teams in Toronto. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:16, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm good with that. Canterbury Tail talk 17:40, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

So, I went ahead with removing the non-professional teams from that list then (Toronto Eagles and Toronto Rush). Leventio (talk) 04:58, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Good. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:05, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2020

Change coordinates of Toronto to its city center. Currently is set as 43°44′30″N 79°22′24″W and should be 43°39′12″N 79°23′0″W.

Additionally, add relief to all pushpin maps. And add brackets " and " around location in the pushpin maps. Such as Location within Ontario, Location within Canada and Location within North America.

Thank you 137.150.35.63 (talk) 19:32, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Can you explain or provide a source for why one location is preferable to the other for the coordinates? "Just look at a map" is not a good enough reason, I'm afraid, as "city center" can mean different things to different people and we need a reason the suggestion is better than the current. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

The current co-ordinates seem to be a "geographic" center of Toronto. But, looking at it visually, I think it appears to be too far north. The suggested co-ordinates are Toronto City Hall, which does correspond to normal maps as the center-point of a city. I'm going to take a look at other city articles. Alaney2k (talk) 05:09, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

The coordiantes for city hall would be 43°39'12.6"N 79°23'02.5"W, the geographic centre of Toronto is around 43°43'35.9"N 79°23'26.0"W (33 Wanless Crescent in North Toronto).– BrandonXLF (talk) 07:07, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

According to WP:GEO COOR, we use the coordinates provided by Geographical Names Board of Canada (see here), which is 43° 44′ 30″ N, 79° 22′ 24″ W (so what it is right now). Leventio (talk) 16:21, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. There must be a story there as to the choosing of that point. Do you know how they calculated that? Alaney2k (talk) 17:33, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

According to them, the coordinates provided are "the centre of a feature, except for flowing-water features where coordinates are at the mouth" (under Latitude/Longitude def.). So I guess what they think is the geographic centre. Leventio (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Fair enough. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:41, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

References

Changes to the introduction

I propose the following changes to the introduction (which were reverted by today with the suggestion to first discuss them here). I propose to compare Toronto to other cities and metropolitan areas in North America. I also propose to add information related to the Economist Intelligence Unit's (EIU) annual Global Liveability Ranking, which is published by a well regarded newspaper and does a semi-scientific analysis of multiple factors that are a synthesis of Eduction, Healthcare, Stability, Culture, and Infrastructure. While not perfect, it gives a good indication well a city performs on these metrics. I also suggest to add reference to the U of T and the Toronto General Hospital which are both world-renowned institutions which should be mentioned and can or can not be supported by metrics. In general for Universities the ARWU, QS and Times ranking can be used reliably, I am not sure about hospitals but clearly TG and SickKids have worldwide reputations and should be mentioned in the lead. Also the fact that Toronto is a global financial center could be mentioned.

Any thoughts? My proposed text is below, --hroest 21:39, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Toronto is the provincial capital of Ontario and the most populous city in Canada. With a population of 2,954,024, Toronto is also the fourth most populous city in North America. The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is Canada's most populous metropolitan area with a population of 5,928,040 and an urban agglomeration of 9,245,438 people in the Golden Horseshoe surrounding the western end of Lake Ontario. Toronto is an international centre of business, finance, arts, and culture, and is recognized as one of the most multicultural and cosmopolitan cities in the world. It is generally ranked among the top of the world's most liveable cities and is also one of the world's most safe large city.

People have travelled through and inhabited the Toronto area, located on a broad sloping plateau interspersed with rivers, deep ravines, and urban forest, for more than 10,000 years. After the broadly disputed Toronto Purchase, when the Mississauga surrendered the area to the British Crown, the British established the town of York in 1793 and later designated it as the capital of Upper Canada. During the War of 1812, the town was the site of the Battle of York and suffered heavy damage by American troops. York was renamed and incorporated in 1834 as the city of Toronto. It was designated as the capital of the province of Ontario in 1867 during Canadian Confederation. The city proper has since expanded past its original borders through both annexation and amalgamation to its current area of 630.2 km² (243.3 sq mi).

The diverse population of Toronto reflects its current and historical role as an important destination for immigrants to Canada. More than 50 percent of residents belong to a visible minority population group, and over 200 distinct ethnic origins are represented among its inhabitants. While the majority of Torontonians speak English as their primary language, over 160 languages are spoken in the city.

Toronto is a prominent centre for music, theatre, motion picture production, and television production, and is home to the headquarters of Canada's major national broadcast networks and media outlets. Its varied cultural institutions, which include numerous museums and galleries, festivals and public events, entertainment districts, national historic sites, and sports activities, attract over 43 million tourists each year. Toronto is known for its many skyscrapers and high-rise buildings, in particular the tallest free-standing structure in the Western Hemisphere, the CN Tower.

The city is home to the Toronto Stock Exchange, the headquarters of Canada's five largest banks, and the headquarters of many large Canadian and multinational corporations. Its economy is highly diversified with strengths in technology, design, financial services, life sciences, education, arts, fashion, aerospace, environmental innovation, food services, and tourism. Toronto is home to the University of Toronto, consistently ranked first in Canada and among the top 20 Universities worldwide, and with Toronto General Hospital contains one of the top 10 hospitals in the world.

References

The only significant change over the existing version of the article is the inclusion of rankings from two magazines: [1][2]. However, a rough consensus was established here to exclude magazine rankings from Canadian city articles. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:07, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

The discussion was not as clear-cut as you suggest, there was clear consensus to delete the non-serious rankings such as "best foodie city" and "best city for people with hamsters" or rankings based on reader polls. However, the consensus against other types of rankings is much less established, especially some from the Economist (specifically mentioned as potentially valid) and rankings that are commonly used throughout Wikipedia such as University rankings. Sorry, I did not want to work against existing consensus but to me there is a difference between serious and non-serious rankings. --hroest 21:28, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I mean, speaking just on the individual institution rankings, I honestly can't think of a good reason for the inclusion of individual institutional rankings in the lead of the article on the City of Toronto in its entirety. The entire point of the lead is intended to provide a concise overview of the article's content and sections, providing a quick summary of what it covers in the actual article body. If anything, if we were to expand the lead, work should be made towards providing a summary of said omitted sections from the lead first (something like the city's wider public/health networks, or education system is probably more appropriate) as opposed to inserting the accolades of just one institution as some non-sequitur (considering the larger section itself isn't even introduced).

In my mind, content like that is more appropriately suited in the section found in the article body, as it provides a better space for said content to be properly fleshed out (i.e. methodology of ranking, what are they ranking [opinions of people? bibliometric?]); something that cannot be done in a lead (seeing as how the nature of that whole thing is to be concise). Leventio (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 March 2020

I would like to update Toronto's population statistic. According to the official City of Toronto website, the most current population number is 2,956,024 as of July 2018.

Here is the website: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/data-research-maps/toronto-at-a-glance/ Trantif1 (talk) 21:33, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Interstellarity (talk) 21:46, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

New montage

I was thinking about changing the current Toronto montage for a more recent and better one. What do you think about this one: File:Toronto Montage 2020.jpg? I would change maybe the skyline image for a wider image of downtown. − Allice Hunter ^(Inbox) 21:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

It looks better than the previous one to me. Please wait for others to reply. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:20, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I like it, the old one is 6 years out of date. We should update it photos of things like the Toronto sign, UofT, spice things up a bit, but this one looks good. Don't think it's too controversial of a change so I'll go ahead and WP:BEBOLD, along with some other edits I made.WildComet (talk) 12:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I honestly don't think Toronto needs that many images for its montage. The new one looks nice, but 7 images is too many in my opinion. The thing I liked about the other one was that it didn't have that many images and it wasn't too big. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 02:54, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

@Nkon21, WildComet, and Johnny Au: Would you like me to create an alternative version without the two images on the bottom? − Allice Hunter ^(Inbox) 17:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't really have a preference for which image to remove, but I sorta feel like the bottom right image of the Bluffs should be maintained for now, seeing as how its the only image there thats from outside the old city. Leventio (talk) 03:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

How about this? ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 03:30, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I have no problem with the amount of images, I think 6 is the perfect number visuals wise but have no issues with the 7 we have now. It would be nice to have new photos, however. My main gripe was that the previous montage was maybe 5 years out of date (which I think anyone who has lived in Toronto can tell by the skyline and lack of Toronto sign at City Hall), I'm pretty happy with the new one, it has has an updated skyline, and the layout looks nicer in general, but it would be nice if we could get a version of the City Hall with the Toronto sign, especially since that is becoming a tourist attraction. WildComet (talk) 09:03, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

There is no doubt that the current montage is outdated, especially with how rapid Toronto's skyline is developing and the lack of the 3D Toronto sign, which is among the most photographed in the city based on social media posts. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 15:23, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I just updated the montage, and this time it includes an image of the City Hall with the Toronto sign (the same image suggested by Nkon21). − Allice Hunter ^(Inbox) 16:04, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I would agree the montage needed updating, I am not sure about the current format or choice of pictures. Personally I find some of them hard to see in the current format or just odd angles. The city hall pic is a bit weird in the montage and the Royal Ontario Museum has the cars in the foreground which is distracting. The Legislative building is really hard to focus on as well with this setup. Just the opinions of an outsider. Krazytea(talk) 03:11, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Image spam in lead

Could we get some people to look at the lead images. Lets try to make the article navigable in mobile view and not a picture book.--Moxy 🍁 12:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

We need to decide which photo to remove first. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 14:54, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

@Moxy: Which photos you be speaking of? The montage? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I've been looking at some other cities' montages and I really like how Calgary and Montreal (Montreal being a good article too) has theirs laid out with the two portrait images spacing out the smaller ones - reduces the clutter and is fine on mobile. I wasn't a fan of the old montage - looked more cluttered, even with less photos and was out of date - so I was really glad when someone made a new one with updated photos. I wouldn't complain if y'all wanted to lay it out like those. Maybe switch Price Edward Viaduct for the Humber Bay bridge for the sake of geographic diversity, Casa Loma with the Distillery District (more historically significant, popular attraction). We could cut the ROM (what makes it more notible than the AGO, or Hockey Hall of Fame?) to bring it down to the right number of images for the format. Any ideas on how to include places outside the downtown too? WildComet (talk) 09:03, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

A decent picture of the skyline should definitely be added. They Toronto skyline is very well known, a major symbol of the city. 199.229.220.150 (talk) 07:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

...especially one that is updated, given how quickly the skyline is updated. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:23, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@Johnny Au: I am currently trying to find the best image of the Toronto Skyline. I'm checking several images on Commons to find an image that fits and looks nice. For me, only the first image should be replaced. − Allice Hunter ^(Inbox) 04:40, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Skyline in the Montage

Could we get an updated panoramic skyline image in the upper portion of the montage rather than just condos along Harbourfront? I believe we can agree a panoramic view of the skyscrapers and the CN Tower is a more accurate depiction of the city. I also suggest removing the ROM image and replacing it with a panoramic shot of the Bluffs like previously. EelamStyleZ (talk) 02:11, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

We are currently discussing a new montage. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 16:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree, panaoramic images of the skyline and the Bluffs would be a good way to unclutter and shorten the montage. Blackjays1 (talk) 21:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Format <note> in Government section

In the government section, in the last paragraph. The sentence goes The city's revenues include subsidies from the Government of Canada and the Government of Ontario<note>(for programs mandated by those governments)</note>, 33% from property tax, 6% from the land transfer tax and the rest from other tax revenues and user fees. I think the <note> in there should be properly formatted. CorrectionW1K2 (talk) 23:36, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed by simply removing the faux tag. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 02:50, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Most recent population update

I understand a lot of major city's pages usually go by last Federal census, and then a current year estimate. I came across [3] from the City of Toronto's website, citing a July 2018 population of 2,956,024. Is this something that should be included in the article? Or should this be left alone until the 2021 Canadian Census? CaffeinAddict (talk) 02:50, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:CANSTYLE, the official census population has higher priority. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 14:44, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Toronto POPULATION 2020

I can see that the population is the one of 2016. Toronto population had changed a lot since if you can change the the population maybe

Toronto urban: Toronto, Canada Population; https://populationstat.com/canada/toronto and http://www.greatertoronto.org/ More than 6.2 millions now, need to be changed!

Toronto GTA: Table 10: Population by five-year age group, 2019–2046 — reference scenario GREATER TORONTO AREA; https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/demographics/projections/table10.html. The population is now more than 7 millions so it need to be changed!

Alex — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexvillpsg (talk • contribs) 16:58, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Wait for census, everything else is purely a guess. Canterbury Tail talk 17:50, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:CANSTYLE, the census figures are preferred over population estimates. The cited figure is of the metropolitan area, not Toronto proper. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:20, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

To add to this. https://populationstat.com/canada/toronto and http://www.greatertoronto.org/ are not reliable nor official sources compared to the Census data from Stats Can. The latter is just a personal, self-published website. This is not a race about adding the most recent data; no point in adding in recent data if data is unreliable. Ssbbplayer (talk) 17:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Wherever there are population figures, I have added plenty of hidden notes not to change population figures until the 2021 census is released. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:06, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Most importantly, there is no deadline. It seems as though a year before the census year, estimates are published and users keep ignoring the hidden notes not to add them. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 14:50, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2021

Put a proper picture of the best current toronto skyline. Its sickening there isn't one 2607:FEA8:A720:D700:60A6:8E46:97D4:5D2 (talk) 02:53, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Not done: Your request consists only of a vague request to add, update, modify, or improve an image, or is a request to include an image that is hosted on an external site. If you want an image changed, you must identify a specific image that has already been uploaded to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons. Please note that any image used on any Wikipedia article must comply with the Wikipedia image use policy, particularly where copyright is concerned. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 02:57, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Note that the Toronto skyline is rapidly changing each year due in part to the Canadian property bubble. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:26, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

A wide picture of the Toronto skyline would not look that good because the buildings seen from a distance look small compared to the other images. The ideal is to use an image of only a part of the skyline, as in the pages of some other cities. We do not need to update the skyline image annually (especially if the place in the used image has not changed and if we do not have good images on Commons). The current image showing only a few buildings of Toronto is good enough and looks good on the set of images. − Allice Hunter ^(Inbox) 20:31, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Adding Sources

Hello,

I saw the tags on this page saying several sections needed to have more sources added. I found a few sources for the "Neighbourhoods" section, and added them to the "Old Toronto," "Suburbs" and "Industrial" sections within that. I'm not sure if this is enough to resolve the tags on each section, but I hope it is helpful!

Redf1veXW (talk) 17:32, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

I've added {{citation needed}} tags as required and removed a few superfluous banners (I think one for the whole Neighbourhoods section is more than enough). The reference you added in this edit is a circular reference to a book that is a compilation of Wikipedia articles. Otherwise, looks good. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 18:41, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2021

Toronto’s population was approximately 2,731,570 according to the 2016 Census of Population. TorontoTells (talk) 10:27, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Not clear what you're asking us to do, this number is already reported in the infobox. Make your request in the format of "Please change X to Y because of Z." Canterbury Tail talk 12:24, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done as mentioned by Canterbury Tail. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 14:01, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Population References are not Stats Can but are instead a publication company. The historic data exists at Stats Can and could be referenced directly.

I recommend replacing references with the source links at stats can TheKevlar 22:40, 5 July 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkevlar (talk • contribs)

References

Sustainability

I am adding a sustainability section. If anyone wishes to participate or help clean up and streamline other sections there is a discussion at the Canadian Wikipedians noticeboard regarding this project. It is a multi-city effort where we will be doing the same for other cities in Canada. TheKevlar 20:22, 7 July 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkevlar (talk • contribs)

That is good. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:24, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Sustainability is not a section expected at community articles according to WP:CCSG. If you want to start doing this across Canadian communities, I suggest you start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canadian communities/Structure guideline and place a notice of said discussion here, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canadian communities, and at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board to catch a wider audience. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 07:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

That would be a much better idea. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 14:44, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Elevation

The latest edit by User:WinnipegMA is factually incorrect and should be reverted. The generally agreed-upon elevation of the Toronto shore is somewhere around 73 to 76 meters, although it's hard to find a single source that says that explicitly:

• https://en-us.topographic-map.com/maps/ho/Toronto/
• https://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/resources/the-formation-of-the-great-lakes/lake-ontario/

The reference provided by WinnipegMA is somewhere in the middle of downtown Toronto, which is ~50 feet higher. 70.123.50.121 (talk) 06:02, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done — Lauritz Thomsen (talk) 07:18, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Local pronunciation

@Wolfdog: The whole point of Help:IPA/English is to help speakers interpret our transcription according to their own dialect. The flapping of the /nt/ sequence isn't "local", meaning "specific to the Toronto area". It's a common feature of many if not most dialects of NAE. It's probably as "not local" as the cot-caught merger.

The audio accompanying the transcription /ˈtrɒnoʊ, -nə/ represents neither pronunciation. It represents the [təˈɹɒɾ̃oʊ] variant of /təˈrɒntoʊ/. The lack of affrication of the supposed /tr/ onset and the schwa that is there instead between the stop and the approximant is very audible to me. So we need another audio clip. Sol505000 (talk) 19:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

And yet Americans and many other Canadians are often ridiculed when they do pronounce the /t/, which they commonly do (see the "10 and 3" source, which I included precisely for this reason). So there may indeed be something unusual at work here. As for the audio, I'd honestly forgotten that was attached; you can feel free to remove it, now that sources have revealed other phonetic features in this pronunciation. Wolfdog (talk) 20:14, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Apparently /nt/-flapping in Toronto has been lexicalized... in Toronto. This could be comparable with the lexicalized non-rhoticity in the word gangsta, which has evolved from gangster to become a distinct word. Here, the /t/-less pronunciation has just become a local standard. The pronunciation with /nt/, at least in the US, is probably used by well-meaning native speakers of other varieties of NAE who want to sound clear. Which is perfectly understandable, since there's not one single other word in which the orthographic sequence ⟨nt⟩ stands for an underlying /n/. It always stands for /nt/ with optional (probably usual but still phonetic) flapping. Sol505000 (talk) 20:33, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah... could be. Wolfdog (talk) 20:37, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

I've removed the audio. Sol505000 (talk) 21:22, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Don't forget about the local pronunciation of Atlanta, which is often pronounced as "Alanna." It's not just a Toronto thing. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

@Sol505000: my edit has little to do with what this discussion is about. You should simply not use the diaphonemic transcription for local realizations, you should rather use it only if the local pronunciation has a different underlying set of phonemes (e.g. /ɑː/ instead of /æ/ and such), which is definitely not the case here. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 12:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98: /VnV/ will automatically be parsed as an alveolar nasal flap in the appropriate environments, so I don't understand your point. It is flapped the same as the other two alveolar stops. I don't think we should be putting any narrow phonetic transcriptions in articles like that. Who's going to be able to read them?

Plus, the recording is clearly wrong, as it has three syllables and onset /r/ (not /tr/) in the stressed syllable. It's not the local pronunciation (at least not "local" as opposed to "non-local"), but rather a generic North American pronunciation (the other one being with a phonetic [nt]) that can be heard in any region (more or less), except in careful speech. Sol505000 (talk) 12:25, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

@Sol505000: then we should remove the local IPA altogether. It’s pretty pointless and {{IPAc-en}} is not meant for that. And by the way, “who’s going to be able to read them?” duh, that’s exactly why Help:IPA was crafted. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 12:30, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Where did you get that idea? Are we not supposed to show the difference between the American pronunciation of Maryland as /ˈmɛrᵻlənd/ (pronounced with DRESS even in those regions that have a distinct SQUARE/FACE vowel in "Mary") and the RP pronunciation /ˈmɛərᵻlənd/, which prefers SQUARE? Sources say that the first vowel in Toronto is often deleted in the local variety of English. That's a local pronunciation which I don't think occurs in either GA or RP. No pronunciation dictionary records it. The schwa in the last syllable is even more local and that pronunciation doesn't occur in any standard variety of English (see Rhoticity in English#Goat–comma–letter merger, a section I created yesterday).

We have the IPAc-en template (and the corresponding guide) for a reason. We should use it whenever it is possible. Sol505000 (talk) 12:35, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

@Sol505000: “The transcription system of Help:IPA/English, upon which this template relies, is diaphonemic, i.e. meant to cover multiple major varieties of English at once. If you wish to give a narrow transcription of a pronunciation in a certain variety of English, use {{IPA-endia}} or {{IPA-all}} instead.” Now, you either do the job or I will. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 12:41, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, Maryland should be edited too. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 12:43, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

You gotta be kidding me, especially with Maryland. There's a massive difference between a transcription system used in an IPA guide and when to use the corresponding IPA template. Can't you see it? Sol505000 (talk) 12:46, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Help:IPA/English and {{IPAc-en}} are strictly connected, since one explains the other (it’s literally said in the quotation above!), even more so if the template is the only one used for diaphonemic transcriptions here and the help was conceived to avoid cluttering articles with needless specifications that one can easily find in the guide. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 12:51, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind the “Maryland” thing, I got mixed up with that one and of course that’s proper usage of the template. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 12:59, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) What you're suggesting is that one should never preface any IPAc-en transcription with "US", "UK" (or indeed "local") etc. except when dealing with, say, the TRAP-BATH or LOT-CLOTH splits - which is complete nonsense. There's more to phonemic incidence in English than that!

Whether we should retain any local transcription in this particular article is another story. I'd certainly leave the one ending with a schwa, but I'd like to see any confirmation on actual vowel deletion before /r/. The man on the recording I keep removing from the article says either [tɨ̥ˈɹɒɾ̃o̜̽] (with a voiceless schwa and a weakly rounded, centralized monophthongal GOAT) or [tɨ̥ˈɹɒɾ̃ə] (with two schwas, the first one voiceless and the other one final, occurring instead of GOAT). I can't figure out which one it is - but neither features an onset /tr/ (the voiceless postalveolar non-sibilant affricate). Sol505000 (talk) 13:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Whether it is nonsense or not, this is not the place to discuss that since that’s how the diaphonemic template is supposed to be used, period. Open a discussion in a more appropriate place. Regarding the audio file, I don’t have an ear refined enough to be able to tell which one of the two vowels occurs at the end. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:09, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

And as to vowel deletion, don’t we have three sources already? Leaving the audio aside which might use a more careful realization. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:15, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Read the guide more carefully and look how the template is and has been used on Wikipedia. As to whether our /n/ diaphoneme correctly represents a flap in this environment, that's another story. I'd say it most probably does.

Ah, Ruiz Garrido (2011) says that the schwa may or may not be deleted. That works. He also says that the final vowel is a schwa, so [tɨˈɹɒɾ̃ə] (or [ˈt̠ɹ̠̊˔ɒɾ̃ə], with an affricate). Both /təˈrɒn(t)ə/ and /ˈtrɒn(t)ə/ are very clear candidates to include in our article. I oppose removing them. Sol505000 (talk) 13:24, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

I don’t see what in the guide would make me change my mind, maybe you should read it more carefully. I know very well that the template has been used in a variety of ways, but that doesn’t mean it was/is meant to be used like that. I admit that /ˈtrɒntə/ may be included as a possibility though. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:34, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

And what's wrong with including the trisyllabic /təˈrɒn(t)ə/ as well? Per Stress and vowel reduction in English#Distinctions between reduced and unreduced vowels, both reduced GOAT (the one that further reduces to a schwa in "Toronto") and a full GOAT that cannot be reduced can occur immediately after stress. If you can reliably distinguish between the two (as well as the reduced vs. full KIT, as in "battle it" vs. "battleship"), then you're a special case. I cannot and most of our readers can't. Sol505000 (talk) 13:39, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

What? How did you end up talking about this? Yes, I also meant /təˈrɒntə/, sorry if I just put one of the two transcriptions; but how does that relate to the reduced final /oʊ/? Actually, what you said seems to oppose the inclusion of the /-ə/ variant. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:48, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Why shouldn't the variants with a final schwa be included? I just said that the reduced (or full) nature of GOAT cannot be reliably deduced from the fact that it occurs immediately after stress, as shown by the farrow/Pharaoh example. An orthographic ⟨ow⟩ (as in barrow, cockney [ˈbæɹɐ]) is a good indicator of a reduced GOAT (though probably not in all cases), but Toronto is spelled with an ⟨o⟩. Sol505000 (talk) 13:52, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

I said I would include them after all, you did it all by yourself. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:54, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

That's fine. My point was that you said that what I said proved that those variants shouldn't be included, which was very strange to me. Nevermind.

I've opened a Help talk:IPA/English#Alveolar_nasal flap in NAE discussion in a more appropriate place. Sol505000 (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

I've added the underlying /t/ to the IPA and removed the note, per that discussion. Sol505000 (talk) 13:17, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Could someone with a more discerning ear than I confirm the presence of a 't' in the first local pronunciation (locally /təˈrɒntə/ ^ⓘ)? There is simply an n and a schwa. I cannot hear one even optimistically. /təˈrɒnə/. Disclosure: not Canadian. 24.147.31.161 (talk) 03:35, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

All three are phonemic transcriptions. The alveolar nasal flap is transcribed /nt/ here - see Help_talk:IPA/English/Archive_26#Alveolar_nasal_flap_in_NAE. In Help:IPA/English, we don't transcribe flapping at all (including flapping of /r/ in Scottish English Greenock [ˈɡɾinək]), with Seattle transcribed /siˈætəl/ (rather than /siˈædəl/ or /siˈæɾəl/) and Toledo transcribed /təˈliːdoʊ/ (rather than /təˈliːɾoʊ/). In General American English, these are flapped with the same consistency as the /nt/ sequence in local pronunciations of Toronto. Indeed, even the standard pronunciation of Toronto (with a final /oʊ/ and an audible schwa between /t/ and /r/) is normally pronounced with a nasal flap in much of the North America, with [nt] being a spelling pronunciation that doesn't occur in many/most dialects in normal speech. /nt/ is not even the only cluster where /t/ can be elided, Westminster is usually pronounced without the first /t/ even in RP: [ˈwɛsmɪn(t)stə], where it aligns with cockney [ˈwɛsmɪn(t)stɐ ~ ˈwɛsmɪ̃stɐ]. I think that would be transcribed /ˈwɛstmɪnstər/ per our guide (but it's not, per MOS:LEADPRON), ignoring both the elision of the first /t/ and the possible affrication of the post-nasal /s/ (not to mention the fact that /ˈwɛstmɪnstər/ also stands for an intermediate variant [ˈwɛspⁿmɪn(t)stə] in which the first, morpheme-final /t/ is assimilated to the the place of articulation of the following morpheme-initial /m/. /ˈwɛsmɪnstər/ does not). Sol505000 (talk) 00:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2021

Hi fellow Wikipedian's, I noticed that the Toronto wikipedia page is outdated with information about the current available area codes for telephone numbers as per NANPA, BELL CANADA, GLOBAL NEWS, and Wikipedia articles.

It currently doesn't include 365 and 742 area code, the latter was made available as per October 2021.

Below is my list of references cheers!

https://www.bce.ca/regulatory/new-area-codes https://globalnews.ca/news/7954380/southern-ontario-new-area-code-742/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_codes_905,_289,_and_365

Thank you 942digital (talk) 16:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Not done, these area codes do not cover Toronto. Toronto has its own set of area codes; 416, 647 & 437. The ones you talk about are for southern Ontario which excludes Toronto. Canterbury Tail talk 16:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi, there seems to be a misunderstanding Bell Canada, as well as CRTC (our Communications Regulator) Global News, have reiterated that its for the entire golden horshoe region, which includes toronto.

the global news article clearly mentions it as well which is a reputable independent new organization as per wikipedia guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 942digital (talk • contribs) 16:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

The wording Golden Horseshoe is misleading here cause they aren't using it in the traditional sense, but rather how the Canadian Numbering Administration Consortium defines it (where they have the City of Toronto as a separate region from the rest of the Golden Horseshoe. In cases of such ambiguity, going to the source itself is helpful. On CNAC's maps (see here), you can see that the 742 is for the Golden Horseshoe (which excludes Toronto for their purposes). And in the CRTC's decision (see here), it makes it clear it only relieves area codes 289, 365, and 905, and not any of the area codes associated with Toronto. Leventio (talk) 17:14, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 15:03, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Toronto Coach Terminal closed; intercity buses from there now depart from the Union Station Bus Terminal

The Toronto Coach Terminal has closed, as of 4 July 2021. Intercity buses from there are now departing from the Union Station Bus Terminal (USBT).

The USBT opened on Dec 5, 2020. Source: https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/12/05/give-me-shelter-torontos-new-union-station-bus-terminal-opens-doors-for-first-time/

Megabus/Coach Canada moved to the USBT on June 8, 2021. Source: https://blog.metrolinx.com/2021/05/27/megabus-starts-to-roll-into-new-union-station-bus-terminal/

Ontario Northland moved to the USBT on July 4, 2021. Source: The last bus - final coach leaves the Toronto Coach Terminal (Andy Lehrer) https://www.andylehrer.org/2021/07/the-last-bus-final-coach-leaves-toronto.html

On Nov 8, 2021, Greyhound Lines (US Greyhound, not Greyhound Canada) services from Toronto resumed to New York City, departing from the USBT. Source: https://news.greyhound.com/press-releases/2021/10/27/greyhound-resumes-travel-to-canada-as-borders-reopen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Komiksulo (talk • contribs) 08:06, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:51, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2022

In the introduction, can you add that "Toronto is a major city"? 184.67.114.38 (talk) 20:12, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. I don't think that would be in improvement over "is the capital city of the Canadian province of Ontario" ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:57, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

"Major city" is very vague anyways as there are many incompatible ways to define a "major city." As Canada's most populous city as well as the financial capital of the country (but not the political capital of the country, which is Ottawa), Toronto is obviously a major city in the Canadian context but is not among the most populous cities in the world. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC) Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

History section clarification

• In the "20th Century" section of "History", there is a statement "This only delayed the bill's inevitable passage, given the PCO's majority." I suggest "PCO" be spelled out, as I was initially confused with the Privy Council Office or perhaps some other entity I was unfamiliar with, and the article Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario lists "PC" as the abbreviation for that entity, not "PCO" :
• If PCO refers to Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, can that be spelled out?:

HeyFK (talk) 18:42, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done PCO refers to the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario in this case. I have reworded that sentence to be clearer, as well as cleaned up parts of the paragraph. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:06, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2022

I would like to insert a skyline panorama photograph that I took this summer of Toronto from the Toronto Islands. It would be awesome if that image was used as one of the main images when Toronto is searched or even added under the 21st century/Architecture section. Feel free to use it on the main page and make it as wide as you would like. Let me know how to proceed. Thank you! (The figure showed up below the written request.) I've contributed quite a few images to the Wiki commons and am happy that my images are used for others to enjoy. SkiEngineer (talk) 05:49, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Exploring downtown Toronto Canada on Saturday, June 18, 2022. (Photo by Kiffer Creveling)

There's no denying that your photo looks great, but it is best that we first develop a consensus before we add your photo to the main article. Thank you so much for suggesting your great photo though. Here's hoping that you do very well with your photography skills. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 13:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the decision. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:10, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2022

The city is the anchor of [The Greater Toronto Area and] the Golden Horseshoe, 184.148.16.134 (talk) 12:36, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done The entirety of the Greater Toronto Area is part of the Golden Horseshoe, therefore it is redundant. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 15:07, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

GAN note

I found this article very well-written, well-written enough to become a good article. I saw very few "Citation needed" tags, no (or 1) typos, fresh clarity, and nothing needing retoning, unlike some GAs. I will consider putting it on GAN today. SpyridisioAnnis Discussion 10:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

I have removed this tag. While there are a few problems quite quickly apparent from a glance, there are notably multiple cn tags as well as multiple entirely unsourced paragraphs. CMD (talk) 13:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

This article will need many improvements before it can be added to GAN. For example, it needs more citations from reliable sources, preferably those that are also recent. Right now, it is B class, the highest class in the quality scales used in all pertinent WikiProjects that doesn't require a thorough review from a Wikipedian not involved with the WikiProjects associated with the topic. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:35, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

Once John Tory resigns. Will we be leaving the mayor entry as "vacant"? GoodDay (talk) 22:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Presumably so. No one will be assuming the powers of the mayoral office between his resignation and the next election, and the city is making it clear that the deputy mayor will not be the "acting mayor" or "interim mayor" (at least according to this). If need be, a footnote could be added with "vacant", that explains how the deputy mayor is assuming a caretaker leadership role during that process. Leventio (talk) 23:41, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the office of mayor will become vacant and the deputy mayor performs limited functions, but does not take office herself, even in an acting or interim capacity.

I recall when the office of governor general was vacant, we listed it as such in the infobox in the Canada article, even though the chief justice performed the duties. A footnote could certainly be helpful as well. —WildComet ^talk 00:50, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I also support having the position be vacant with a footnote. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:37, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

A hidden HTML note visible when editing also suffices until the new mayor is sworn in (not immediately after election results are known). Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:23, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Since Jennifer McKelvie is named temporary mayor of Toronto, her name should remain in the infobox until the new mayor is sworn in a few days after the byelection (not immediately after the byelection results are known, which is a very common mistake made by anyone not familiar with WikiProject guidelines, which is most Wikipedians). Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:51, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Toronto Argos

Need to update the number of titles to 18, last won in 2022. 161.69.121.34 (talk) 14:38, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done The article now reflects the fact that the Argos won the Grey Cup 18 times. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 15:09, 3 May 2023 (UTC)