Talk:Case Closed/Archive 3

Title Change

Can we change the title of the page to Meitantei Conan. As it is the original title of the Japanese anime and it is the source. It was named Case Closed by Funimation after acquiring the dubbing rights for the anime and for marketing in the United States. The original anime series is continuing and the Case Closed series stopped production. Hence I believe the title Meitantei Conan is more relatable. ViSh 21:25, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

This has been discussed so often a header at the top was supposed to prevent more of these discussions from coming up. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:30, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

The idea behind giving a topic a title is most usually an original context rather than a derived context. In my opinion, something that has been discussed a lot doesn't mean the discussion shouldn't happen again. ViSh 00:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

But Wikipedia's stance is still based on the MoS which states official English titles must be used. The series is still licensed under Case Closed by Viz and Funimation. No argument has defeated that cause yet. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

This issue is secondary to WP:TIES. The official Japanese-English title is Detective Conan, and since this topic is clearly Japan centric that should be used. The Japanese article even mentions this: "漫画・アニメともに、世界各国で翻訳・刊行・放映されている。タイトルの英語表記は『Detective Conan』で他の言語もそれに従うものだが、北米のみ『Case Closed』というタイトルになっている。" Unless it can be shown that this is not a Japan centric article the title must be changed to Detective Conan. Mojo-chan (talk) 19:23, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

No. Ties says use the right native English to that native article, Canadian articles would use Canadian English. It does not enforce foreign titles. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 03:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Ties states that "An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation." The official Japanese English title is Detective Conan. It's not a translation (which would be something like "Great Detective Conan"), it is the official Japanese English language title. It is used on official works such as the manga and in the TV series. A couple of the movies have had releases with English subtitles and they say "Detective Conan".

Furthermore Ties goes on to state that "For articles about modern writers or their works, it is sometimes decided to use the variety of English in which the subject wrote". In this case the original author wrote "Detective Conan".

Detective Conan is not an American or British subject. It should use the native English title, as Ties states, rather than the foreign title it uses now. You seem to be a bit confused on that point - Case Closed is the foreign title.

Do you have any objections? This is going to be a lot of work to fix. Mojo-chan (talk) 21:37, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Ties doesn't apply in this situation. I'm tired of this, send a Request Move and let the more experienced editors discuss this. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 21:51, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

No-one is compelling you to debate this. If you have nothing more to add there is no reason to respond. We have dealt with your argument and you offer none of your own ("does not apply" is not an argument). Mojo-chan (talk) 22:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Is there a link to that policy of wikipedia? ViSh 01:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

On the header DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:46, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Did not notice that Thanks ViSh 01:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vish4urwish (talk • contribs)

Requested move October 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. TIES really doesn't come into play here, but there's still reasonable disagreement over the subject's common name. --BDD (talk) 19:54, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Case Closed → Detective Conan – The Japanese English name is Detective Conan. That is the official name, given by the author. The article is about a Japanese subject, and as per WP:TIES when an English language title is given in the culture of origin and by the author it should be used. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:29, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose WP:Ties says writing style, date, and number must match their national ties, not how a title is named. This has been discussed many times, such as My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU as series always use their licensed names. WP:COMMONNAME, use the name most prevalent in reliable English sources. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:10, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
• Comment WP:TIES only deals with English-speaking nations, so it's doesn't apply in this instance.--十八 04:31, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support The policy on anime/manga naming says to use the official English titles, and Detective Conan is the official English title. The licensed version came later and is more of a derivative work, since many aspects are changed and it only contains a small subset of the original number of stories. As for Ties only dealing with English speaking nations, English is used extensively in Japan and many Japanese authors/companies do give their works official English titles. 91.84.21.205 (talk) 07:42, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose I am unsure where the idea that Detective Conan is the official English title has come from. The book on my bookshelf right now has Case Closed on its cover, so that's the title as far as I can see. Justin.Parallax (talk) 10:28, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

If you look on the coverbox image which uses the Japanese cover, you'll see the Detective Conan in the red circle which is used by the author to show how he wanted the series to title to translate into English; its direct translation would be Great Detective Conan AFAIK. This is starting to get silly now. If Detective Conan is somehow chosen over the licensed title Case Closed, The World Ends with You needs to be moved to It's a Wonderful World and Kuroko's Basketball to The Basketball which Kuroko Plays, the author's attempt in translating the title. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 11:24, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support As DragonZero points out, it is the official English title given by the author. In other cases where the author has given an English title it should also be used. I really don't see the official title being a bit awkward as an issue, and it has no relevance here at all. Mojo-chan (talk) 17:56, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

DragonZero did not say that, and only stated that it was the way that the author wanted it to be translated. Also, considering the fact the DragonZero opposed the moves clearly shows that they did not believe it to be the official name.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 02:09, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not saying he doesn't oppose, merely that his arguments actually support the case for changing the title.Mojo-chan (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose:If this went through, it might open up a lot of avenues for changing the names of Japan-based films, TV series and games from their short, snappy localized titles into names that sound fine in their native language, but are rather a mouthful when translated into English. I think we should keep the president of English title first, Japanese second, unless it has no official English title. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:31, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose the official English name part has always in practice been applied to commercial releases. I'm sure if it that type of determination was meant to be up to the author it would have been specified somewhere. I would not consider Detective Conan as the official English title since it has not been marketed as that in any English speaking country. Also as mentioned WP:TIES does not apply since that section states An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation, so that would not apply to Japan. To demonstrate the commercial release case it should be noted that we use Nintendo Entertainment System over Family Computer, Super Nintendo Entertainment System over Super Famicom Resident Evil over Biohazard etc, and the most relevant example O-Parts Hunter which was moved by consensus over the original Japanese title 666 Satan. I don't see anything different here.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 00:29, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

It depends on your definition of "English speaking". English is used extensively in Japan and most people know the meanings of many loan words, e.g. "début" and "water". The examples you give (NES/SNES and RE) don't really fit because they were given official releases in the west, so those are the official English titles. Case Closed is not even the same work, it is a derivative with many extensive changes made and covering only a tiny subset of the original material. Case Closed should at most be a section in the main Detective Conan article, detailing the differences.Mojo-chan (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

"Case Closed is not even the same work". Yes... it is... (Poor example but With a Bang (Case Closed)). DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 09:48, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

The not same work argument does not work since there are far worse dubs that the official English name was not rejected due to dub quality. We did not move Zatch Bell to Gash Bell when people tried to make dub quality an argument for moving. Also just in case someone tries to bring up Cardcaptor Sakura, it was not moved from the dub name due to quality of the dub but due to the fact that the original manga was released under that name as well as uncut releases of the anime. This is also nowhere near as alter as that was either.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 00:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - This sort of interpretation would go against WP:COMMONNAME. Sergecross73 msg me 01:39, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

"Detective Conan" gets about 11.9 million hits on Google. "Case Closed" only gets 4.7 million, but a significant number are unrelated. The most common name by which western, English speaking fans know the series is "Detective Conan". Mojo-chan (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support Detective Conan is the most common name among English speakers. I think too much emphasis is being placed on the commercial adaptation, when there are more fansub episodes and a huge community built around them. The commetcial dub website doesn't even seem to be up any more, the citations go to archive.org. Wikipedia isn't here to support commercial interests. I can understand why some people are absinthe some strange sounding English titles but Detective Conan is fine.212.183.128.204 (talk) 14:02, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Case Closed is the name by which the manga most commonly known by in English as that is the title under which the manga is released under in English. Reliable English-language sources will most frequently refer to the series based on its official name in the English language market, which is the standard under which the most common name is determined. WP:TIES does not apply here as that is specifically limited to topics "that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation", and Japan is not an English-speaking nation. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 14:56, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Pardon me but it is actually the other way round, Detective Conan is more commonly known around the world, including the English Languge market, so WP:COMMONNAME does not support Case Closed in this case. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 08:41, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, Detective Conan is the most common English language title. Wikipedia is not here to make a judgement regarding fan/licensed use of the name, merely to reflect reality. Mojo-chan (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

• Strong Support per WP:TIES and WP:CRITERIA. WP:TIES absolutely apply to this Article since the manga and anime are also distributed to many other countries aside from First World countries, especially the developing European and Asian countries that Do speak English frequently like Singapore and France. Furthermore, the term Detective Conan surpassed the term Case Closed in terms of number of edits. Coincidence? --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I doubt that WP:TIES was meant to apply to nations than have a different official language (like France) since that almost certainly would have been specified due to obvious confusion.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 00:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually WP:TIES apply to any Article with strong ties to a language of a nation, not just official language (English Language in this case). To say, there are many polyglots around the world, particularly the English Language and the Chinese Language. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 08:42, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I can see how it might be a little bit of a stretch for articles about Japanese works, but Japanese culture does make use of English in an official capacity and IMHO it is a very important part of that culture. Without going in to too much depth English is seen as kind of cool and a bit exotic, which is likely why Detective Conan was given as the official English title and is printed on books that are otherwise almost entirely in Japanese. The central character is even named after Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as a tribute to his Sherlock Holmes character, and other characters are given English names. Clearly English is used by the author and thus the English title has authority.Mojo-chan (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Come on people. English titles please. If we go by the rationale that Japanese articles should use English names as set by their Japanese roots, then this entire WikiProject needs a dire rewrite. I don't see how throwing WP:TIES into the mix applies here, due to its definition. —KirtZ^Message 22:55, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

The fact that this and other articles would need work is not a reason to ignore the rules or consensus. A mistake was made, it needs correcting. Also, how is "Detective Conan" not an English title? No-one is arguing for Japanese titles, merely the official English title as given by the author/author's publisher when available and when commonly used. I have demonstrated both these conditions apply here. Mojo-chan (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:TIES apply in this case because the series is also licensed as Detective Conan in other English-Speaking Countries. The name Case Closed only apply to the United States which is against WP:NPV. Regardless, if we choose to keep the name as Case Closed with a single-sided reasoning, then this is not fair for the rest of the other readers who speaks English around the world. I did some research on the series distribution between countries. In the article, I found the statement "Due to legal considerations with the name Detective Conan, the English language release was renamed Case Closed." to be very unclear. What are the legal considerations that forced the licencor to change the name and why is the name Detective Conan being used in the United States around the 2010s as compared to then. Furthermore, I have to point out once again that the name Case Closed is only used in America, not in the United Kingdom, Australia or any other country that I know of.

This is not the American Wikipedia remember, it is the English Wikipedia; So we shouldn't use the American name Case Closed, but rather the name Detective Conan from now onwards. I'm looking for a fair method to settle this so that they won't be a future confrontation regarding this article's title again so please understand the readers. Thank you. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 08:26, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

First, I want to state that almost everything in this article was done by me. The wording "Due to legal considerations with the name Detective Conan, the English language release was renamed Case Closed." part is exactly what the source says. You can blame Funimation for being hush hush about that. Secondly, while its been over two years since I done any research for this article, United Kingdom and Canada do use Case Closed and there are no other English localizations, aside from Animax's unknown dub, of it in existence. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 22:13, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I know that we cannot accept original research, but as a Brit I can attest to what DragonZero says as being correct in this regard. The results wielded via amazon.co.uk seem to support this as being accurate as well. Justin.Parallax (talk) 09:50, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

eBay says the opposite.Mojo-chan (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

You are ignoring the fan translated material, which is greater in volume than the licensed material. I'm in the UK and was not even aware of the Case Closed name until I read about it on Wikipedia. Everything I own says "Detective Conan" on it, and much of it was bought from sources like Ebay or Play Asia. My local Chinese goods shop has a Detective Conan t-shirt as well, so that name definitely is used commercially here. Ultimately I don't think we can make a determination either way on this point, which is why I suggest we go with the official title given by the author and his publisher. Mojo-chan (talk) 18:33, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Fan translations are irrelevant. WP:COMMONNAME is based on what the preponderance of reliable English-language sources used. Since you have not demonstrated that the preponderance of reliable English-language sources use a title other than the official English-language title, this RM isn't going to go anywhere. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 21:13, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Particularly for Japanese titles fans are very important.Mojo-chan (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

• WP:TIES was written to deal specifically with WP:ENGVAR, and when it is appropriate to adhere to certain spelling conventions in Wikipedia articles. This matter relates to that policy in no way. Article titles should all meet COMMONNAME. Redirects should be used for all other aliases, and any official alternate names, including alternate titles in different markets, should be present, in bold, in the lede. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 11:31, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support. This is an unusual situation, but we should still apply WP:TIES. When something's released under an English title in a major country that (1) doesn't primarily speak English, but (2) has a substantial degree of use of the language, our article about that topic has strong national ties to that country's usage. Japan is significant enough on the world stage and its use of English is significant enough that we should apply TIES here. This is very different from what would happen if a Sammarinese or Burkinabe author released something under an English title, only to see it get a different title in the USA, Canada, the UK, etc. — those countries aren't highly influential in the world, and they don't have a substantial rate of English usage, but both are true of Japan. Nyttend (talk) 03:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

It's only referred as Detective Conan in the logos and is always referred as Meitantei Conan everywhere else, primary or third party. Meitantei Conan translates to Great Detective Conan. English isn't a strong presence in the series. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 03:29, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

In conclusion, all I can say now is that if this article remains as Case Closed, it will most likely be challenged again by another user or reader because Detective Conan does surpass Case Closed from a world perspective per WP:NPV. Then again I still do not know if I should agree with Case Closed just yet because I cannot comfirm if the name is related to WP:CV in any way. I found info that the Copyright Violation had something to do with the name Conan, but I cannot verify it at all since Future Boy Conan also uses that name (except in Arab) and per WP:V it needs to be verified, otherwise the name change wouldn't make much sense to the many readers that already recognized the series as Detective Conan. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 12:23, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

It isn't just logos, Detective Conan is the official English title. All the evidence presented so far demonstrates that it is also the common name, except for the amount of material available on Amazon UK under the Case Closed name. Amazon is purely commercial though, where as a more general search on any major search engine will return considerably more results (multiple times as many) for Detective Conan. That is including all the unrelated pages that contain the rather common phrase "case closed". I don't think anyone has presented a credible argument that Case Closed is the more commonly known name. In fact I suspect it was changed to try and divert buyers from all the free DC material and fan websites already available and towards the licensee's site, and to avoid conflicts with other official English language sites using Detective Conan. Mojo-chan (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Once again, if you completely disregard licensed name usage at MoS Ani/manga, Common Name still stands. "use the name most prevalent in reliable English sources." There is a reason Kuroko's Basketball is used over Kuroko no Basket or throwing Ties outside the scope of MOS:ENGVAR and turning the article into The Basketball which Kuroko plays. Provide some reliable English sources. English reviewers use Case Closed. The English sources in the article use Case Closed. Fan translations are not credible sources by Wikipedia standards. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 05:33, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support - Despite officiality of both titles, Detective Conan is more accurate and consistent with the premise of the show than the current one. Also, many sources use the proposed name. "Case Closed" is ambiguous, even when there aren't existing articles of same name. George Ho (talk) 07:16, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Detective Conan was called Case Closed in USA but it was called Détective Conan in french and Mesterdetektiven Conan in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Meitantei Konan is the name used to Japan. Therefore, the name Detective Conan makes more sense.--Gratus (talk) 13:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Non-English titles used in other languages is irrelevant. What is relevant is the title used by reliable English-language sources that covers the topic per WP:COMMONNAME. Also, Case Closed isn't a US-only title. It is also used in Canada, UK, and Australia, which are the other three predominant English-speaking nations. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 22:59, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Non-English titles are irrelevent but indirectly supportive. We are going by WP:COMMONNAME but we also must maintain WP:NPV. Case Closed has a lot of reliable English sources but I'm not saying that Detective Conan doesn't have any either. The point about choosing Case Closed is that it may violate WP:NPV and it is the media that determine a series notability. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 09:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Non-English sources has no baring on the article names in English. And I don't see how naming the article Case Closed would be a violation of WP:NPV. Both titles are given in the article, and this discussion is about which title is most commonly used by reliable English-language sources per WP:COMMONNAME. So far, the arguments supporting Detective Conan have been based on either personal preference or on the belief that Japanese takes supremacy regardless of which title is used by the preponderance of reliable English-language sources. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 11:41, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

So is there any suggestion on how we should go about this without causing another fuss over it? WP:COMMONNAME is not the only policy that applies here, it also applies WP:NPV, WP:TIES, WP:CRITERIA and more importantly, WP:TITLECHANGES. International media recognize the title as Detective Conan but if it is based on localized media then it is Case Closed. Case Closed may violate "WP:NPV" as mentioned above, but in another way it may not violate it, depending on the scope of views. I have already mentioned that there are many polyglots around the world, so why are we basing this article, and more generally Wikipedia on the English countries; and not including certain influential countries? --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 10:47, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

OPPOSE. I would like to regurgitate what I said in 2007, but since the OP cited WP:TIES as the main main reason, I'd like to quote the text there:

An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation. (Emphasis added)

By citing WP:TIES, the OP also implies Japan is an English-speaking nation, which is plainly ludicrous.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 16:12, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

According to what that has already been mentioned above, there are many polyglots around the world, and that includes Japan, and English is also a language taught at every elementary school in Japan, which is not ludicrous and fairly reasonable to apply WP:TIES due to their vast usage of English in the media, especially anime and manga. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 19:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

The wordings of guidelines should be interpreted by the plain meaning of the word. I dare you pick 100 Wikipedians by random and ask them: "Is Japan an English-speaking country?" and more than half will get you a negative reply. Whether the language is taught as a second language is not important. The important thing is their English skills related to native speakers, and how much they use English in daily life. Based on these two factors I cannot believe, by the plain meaning of the word, Japan is an "English-speaking country."--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:19, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I have found a discussion about what is an "English-speaking country" which worths reading.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:25, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

One more discussion.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:30, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: I'm not an anime/manga fan, but would like to make one comment as an outsider. As Vanisaac mentioned above, WP:TIES relates to WP:ENGVAR to resolve disputes over which version of English to use in particular articles. If WP:TIES applies to the use of English in countries that do not have their own recognised variety of English (e.g., Japanese English), this then raises the question: which variety of English should be followed. —sroc 💬 22:59, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the outside view. The article is written in American English as it follows Viz Media and Funimation. There are no other English adaptions out there. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:16, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I can understand the predicament regarding the use of English in non-English countries. It is true that WP:TIES only applies to English-speaking countries and I'm convinced by User:Samuel Curtis's links to discussion regarding the use of WP:TIES. I do retract my statement on pointing out WP:TIES to this article and I apologize for it.

However, that doesn't explain why Case Closed is preferred over Detective Conan just yet. I respect that there are more experienced editors than many of us here and I just can't understand why we're basing discussions with emphasis on a single policy. If you can explain how Case Closed will make the article more stable, more recognizable, and more believable than Detective Conan without violating the currently applied policies, some editors and I may reconsider our views about this. If not, best I can assume is that a big discussion like this can happen a 3rd time.

This is probably my last reply on this subject for a while since I'm feeling unwell now and I need a break. Thank you for the discussion we had together. --(,･∀･)ノシ(BZ) (talk) 09:03, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move November 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Declined, speedy closed. As there was a requested move discussion which closed a mere ... few days ago, this discussion is extremely premature. I'm sorry if you disagree with the last discussion, which did indeed result in no consensus - however, it's way too early. Rjd0060 (talk) 12:29, 6 November 2013 (UTC) Rjd0060 (talk) 12:29, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

---

Case Closed → Detective Conan – The common name of this work in English is Detective Conan. There is more English language material referring to it by than name than Case Closed. WP:UCN supports the move. Please note that the old discussion was closed prematurely, not everyone can edit or research responses to comments that fast. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

This was just closed a day ago and while the close was no consensus opening a new move 24 hours later is far to soon especially the exact same arguments were considered in the last request.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 22:33, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Also calling anyone who disagrees with as fanatical (stated in above section) is not a good way to advance your case.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 22:37, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't me that called anyone fanatical! You are confusing me with someone else. Also, as I pointed out, the debate was not over, I am just a bit slow at posting. It can't be helped if it was closed prematurely.

Also, Wikipedia is not a democracy. In order for there to be a debate people must also be given the opportunity to hear the arguments before making up their minds, or at least the opportunity to change their stated positions and for a consensus to forum. I think we were getting somewhere since there now seems to be a strong case based on rules as stated. Unfortunately you have to go back and read pages of text to see it. I'll try and summarise in the next few days. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:49, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

My mistake there, I did not realize that the person who made the comment did not have their post signed so I mistakenly thought that you post was a continuation of that one.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 23:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

No problem, Wikipedia's layout on talk pages isn't very clear. Mojo-chan (talk) 23:14, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

It was definitely Mojo-chan. 1. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:54, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

It was not, it was user 24.149.119.20, who I replied too with a smiley face to show that I was not upset and diffuse the situation. You can go and read it above. Mojo-chan (talk) 13:25, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy closed No new arguments made by the OP from the previous move request which just closed 24 hours ago and has open for more then the 7 days required by WP:RM (12 days altogether). 24.149.119.20 (talk) 23:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm making those arguments. Slow down, I can't keep posting as fast as you. I don't want to get into it here (feel free to contact me privately though) but sometimes I can't post a response for days.Mojo-chan (talk) 23:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

I should point out that Detective Conan was the original article name. The move to Case Closed was unjustified due to lack of evidence that it is the common name. It's more like a request to revert.

A further point: WP:ON clearly states that the official title should be used. Although there is an exception for non-English titles, Detective Conan clearly is English. Mojo-chan (talk) 23:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

You were given 12 days to make your points the last time and create a new consensus. That was plenty of time AND you participated in the discussion just about every day. You don't get extra innings just because you were unsuccessful in building a new consensus the last time. I'll also point out that Case Closed is not the official English name. Detective Conan is simply AN English name, but not the work's official one. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 11:49, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Old points are being brought up again. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 02:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• The common name of this work in English is Detective Conan

Does not comply with WP:Common Name which relies on reliable English sources. Japanese sources use Meitantei Conan in text. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 02:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• There is more English language material referring to it by than name than Case Closed.

Not in English. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 02:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Please note that the old discussion was closed prematurely, not everyone can edit or research responses to comments that fast

No it wasn't. Requested moves usually stay open for a week. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 02:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• WP:ON clearly states that the official title should be used. Although there is an exception for non-English titles, Detective Conan clearly is English.

Not for English countries. There's a reason Kuroko's Basketball is not The Basketball which Kuroko Plays or The World Ends with You is at It's a Wonderful World. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 02:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Anime News Network:
  • Anime: [1][2][3][4][5][6]
  • Manga: [7][8]
  • Other: [9][10]
• Mania.com:
  • Anime: [11][12]
  • Manga: [13][14][15][16]
• New York Times: [17]
• Publisher's Weekly: [18][19]
• Newtype USA: October 2006 (topic archives incomplete)

And this is just the tip of the iceberg of reliable English-language sources that use Case Closed in isolation to reference the subject of the article per WP:COMMONNAME. Care to show your counter evidence, Mojo? 24.149.119.20 (talk) 04:22, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose and please speedy close - This doesn't add anything new to the discussion, it simply resurrects it. The previous discussion gave well over the required seven days for all parties to give their side, and has been closed far too recently for this discussion to be worth resurrecting this early. Whether someone feels that they didn't get their point across adequately in time is irrelevant. As for the subject at hand, every bit of product available in the english-speaking world uses the same title, Case Closed. This has been demonstrated with the links posted immediately above. I could also snap a photo of the copy of the book on my own bookshelf, which has the words 'Case Closed' clearly printed on the cover, but that's utterly academic at this point. It doesn't matter in the slightest what people choose to call it online, the title on the books on the bookshelves has authority over that. If you feel that the title is different, please provide verifiable evidence to support this, and remember that a substantial claim requires substantial evidence. Justin.Parallax (talk) 10:59, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Genres

I added some genres to the genre section. The show clearly has loads of comic episodes, romantic moments, dramatic moments, and action scenes. The genre addition is also a good way to attract viewers. When I had first come to this page to see what the show was about, I didn't bother watching it when I saw what genres were there. I thought it was only about "detective fiction". Then my friend forced me to watch it and I loved it. It is so much more than just "detective fiction", so please let other future fans know that by leaving these genres up there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.189.53.191 (talk)

Your edits were reverted as the genres you added are unsourced and are clearly based on original research by your own comments here. —Farix (t | c) 20:22, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Fine so if I'm able to source them they can be added? Also I didn't see any proof of sourcing for "detective fiction". Where is the source for that genre? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.189.53.191 (talk) 02:29, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Not just any source will do, it has to be a reliable source. WP:A&M/ORS lists several sources that have been reviewed and groups them into reliable, situational, and unreliable. If you are unsure about the reliability of a source, you can ask WP:A&M to review it.

As for the detective genre, [20] references to it as a mystery. [21] and [22] refers to a more precises genre of detective fiction. Since per MOS:A&M, we list the more specific genre and detective fiction is a sub-genre of mystery, detective fiction is what is listed in the infobox. —Farix (t | c) 03:42, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Long term name consensus

I have to create a sub-section here to ask some readers and editors alike to share their opinion on the series and come up with a Semi-Permament solution to the long debate about the series. It is not a poll but rather to document opinions on how to determine the scope of our discussion so that the new editors and readers can understand our consensus.

Now regarding the discussion, we can choose between Detective Conan, the title that is internationally recognized worldwide, and Case Closed the title that is licensed and used by English countries. The talk page of this article has a long history of debates on the title and I want this to be the last if possible. Please share your solution below. Thank you. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 11:14, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Case Closed/Archive 2#Requested move should have been the big discussion. Summed up: the Anglosaxon countries will know the series as Case Closed because the series is still being published as such; added to the fact, this caters towards the general audience who don't know about fansubs; the writing flow would become stupid, English character names and episode names put aside for its unofficial Japanese translated names, reception would be mostly Case Closed, etc. Every single argument has been brought back full circle, further discussion would be a repeat so just let an admin come to a final decision. Here is the quote from the past closing admin. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 22:28, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have left it a long time before coming to a decision, and I have repeatedly studied the arguments given for and against a move. In the end, I couldn't find enough justification for a move to Detective Conan. It is not used in most English-speaking countries, for instance. The most compelling reason would be one of accuracy, since most of the episodes have not ben released under the name Case Closed, but it is clear that if official translated versions were released, they too would bear the official name Case Closed. Move requests are not votes, and much of the argumentation for the move was based on invalid arguments. This in no way entails that all the related articles must be at titles based on "Case Closed"; an article about a film which has not been released under a "Case Closed" title should remain at a "Detective Conan" title. They must be decided on a case-by-case basis. It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 10:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The statement just reminded me about the films, but I'll get to that later. More importantly, the series was originally released as Case Closed in 2003 under Funimation. Since then, releases in English by other sources are very controversial, weather as Detective Conan or Case Closed, as I don't find enough sources to prove that Funimation censored Case Closed since the DVD boxes released under Funimation bearing the name Case Closed also bears the name of Detective Conan under closer inspection. Though Funimation has rejected Detective Conan previously, the name appearing on its boxes doesn't really add-up to the censorship. I know what I did was violating WP:OR so I apologize for that but the focus now is the Title.

If the past statement by former admin Stemonitis was unable to convince many readers and editors, then reasoning can be incomprehensible in cases like this. I could just say that by WP:TITLECHANGES default it to Detective Conan due to the many conflicts regarding the title but some of the consensus still insist on Case Closed as it is an English official title per WP:COMMONNAME under the scope of the English countries. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 07:25, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I was a party of the 2007 conflict and based on current policies, I don't prefer changing as of today. As for Bumblezellio's point about Movies post-6, I would also quote WP:TITLECHANGES:

[...] Nor does the use of a name in the title of one article require that all related articles use the same name in their titles; there is often some reason for inconsistencies in common usage. For example, Wikipedia has articles on both the Battle of Stalingrad and Volgograd (which is the current name of Stalingrad). (Emphasis added)

Naturally, for any movie post-6, the Detective Conan title is the Common name and putting "Case Closed" on them is artificial. But that does not by itself justify changing the entire title.

--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 16:01, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

The available evidence suggests that Detective Conan is the most common name. Multiple search engines show that there is vastly more English language material using that name. As Stemonitis pointed out many of the episodes and books have not been released under Case Closed at all, and in fact the amount is a small fraction.

This is clearly a contentious issue that comes up every few years, and doubtless will again. I suggest splitting the article into separate Detective Conan and Case Closed parts. These could be separate articles or just a major section on Case Closed in the main Detective Conan article. It would make the text less awkward because it wouldn't have to try and mix original/Funmation names and changes, and the limited subset of Case Closed episodes and the differing seasons could be documented separately. That would, I think, satisfy both camps.Mojo-chan (talk) 17:54, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry, I did not intend to change the title of the first 6 movies, just those after and this Article itself. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 18:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Splitting an article to circumvent WP:NC is not allowed, either.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:20, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

On what grounds?Mojo-chan (talk) 22:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

That would be Wikipedia:Content forking. The English version of this work is simply not anywhere near different from the original version to be considered a different work. The only real exception I can think of regarding a split for anime is Robotech (TV series) which was a combination of 3 separate anime series (all of which have separate articles and significant plot differences). We don't have separate articles regarding shows like Zatch Bell or anything 4 Kids ever dubbed despite the fact their English adaptions have been altered to a far greater extent than Case Closed ever was. To put it another way any split would likely be reverted very quickly.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 01:00, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Okay, but having it as a separate section outlining the differences would be allowed. I'm just trying to find a solution that will appease both camps, because otherwise DC is doing to be the centre of an endless struggle. Clearly the current state is unsatisfactory, so the question becomes is there a more satisfactory option? Mojo-chan (talk) 17:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Without reliable sources, outlining differences would be a violation of the [[WP:NOR|no original research] policies. But regardless of what you do, there will always be a perinatal debate about the article's name. You will always have a fanatical core that believe the article should be named "Detective Conan" regardless on what Wikipedia's policies and guidelines state. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 21:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

That's not a very nice thing to say. The people wanting to keep the CAse Closed name are just as fanatical :-)

The discussion has already been archived before it could be completed, so I'm going to have to do a new move request to get it moving again. I'm going to take some time to do more research and build a few more arguments. Or is there some way to undo the archival? Who decides on archival and why wasn't there any debate over it? I'm not a full time editor and for various reasons can't edit as fast as some other people, so archiving it after no-one posted for a few days doesn't give me time to interact. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, it looks like it will be impossible to get any consensus at this time. I will have more time next month so will do another move request then. The case has been made now, the only thing blocking the move seems to be procedure. If anyone has any other objections or rebuttals to the points made please raise them now, as the move request window is too small to properly debate them. Please also let any other editors you know who may be interested that this is going to happen, so they can all be ready to voice their support. Mojo-chan (talk) 13:20, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The Big 3rd Discussion happened too soon :( --(,･∀･)ノシ(BZ) (talk) 16:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

It would be better to do it now while people are engaged and the iron is hot, so to speak. Mojo-chan (talk) 19:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

In other words, you are just going to keep waving your stick around. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 20:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

There's nothing to discuss. We had discussion, discussion is now over, we know you didn't get the result you wanted but please accept that the discussion is concluded for now.Justin.Parallax (talk) 22:36, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

I disagree, I have further arguments and responses to make. If you have nothing further to add that's fine, you don't have to participate, although it would be a shame if you made valid points that are then ignored because no-one reposts them. Please don't try to stifle the debate just because you fear the result may not be the one you want. Mojo-chan (talk) 18:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Even if I wish for the title change to happen, I still have to abide by the Wikipedia policies. In other words:

If an action cannot be considered "reasonable" or "acceptable" by an objective third person, that action should not be performed. -- WP:RRULE

After I recover from my illness, I will do some other things that can be considered acceptable by many others while thoughts of Wikipedians can be processed and evolved into something better, in most cases. In the meantimes Mojo-chan, please have a nice cup of Jasmine Tea. --(,･∀･)ノシ(BZ) (talk) 10:15, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm not stifling the debate, the debate was had and was concluded. If you have further arguments and responses to make, please do so, I'm interested to hear them as I'm genuinely not convinced of your claim here and further evidence would really assist in that. What I'm saying is, please recognise that for the present, a consensus could not be reached and that continuing to discuss it with have no immediate right-this-very-minute effect. But please do share them regardless. Justin.Parallax (talk) 11:35, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

That's what I proposed. I am preparing my detailed arguments for the next move request, which won't be for a little while. I'm not sure what you are objecting to. Mojo-chan (talk) 18:07, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

So is everyone happy now? Mojo-chan (talk) 19:02, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd suggest that, as you may not be around or available the next time this comes to discussion, maybe you can post your detailed arguments now, with their citations, so that others may read them and submit them to the discussion if you yourself are unable to do so? Justin.Parallax (talk) 19:46, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

That's the plan. I'm going to collect some of the objections and post counter-arguments as well, since most of them have been definitively answered but there is now just so much text people keep bringing them up again and again without seeing the responses. On the other hand there seem to be advantages to keeping your cards close to your chest until the last minute. I don't like it but can't do anything about it either. I'm wondering if it might be worth getting someone higher up involved next time to make a judgement based on the rules, since consensus seems to be impossible and it is basically a technical issue.

I have been speaking to a few people and some of them said they would prefer the debate was a little later in December so is easier for them to participate fully, but another said she would prefer it to be over the new year. I suppose you can never please everyone. Mojo-chan (talk) 21:46, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Okay, before we move forwards with this I think there needs to be some discussion of the tone of the prior discussions. It seems like some editors are assuming bad faith. DragonZero, your own link shows your accusation against me to be incorrect. 24.149.119.20, you would retract your original comment. Please apologise so we can continue the discussion. Mojo-chan (talk) 18:17, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

No. Notice how the 7X.IP editor noted "did not have their post signed". It was referring to your post with the face. Move on don't demand an apology. Start another heading if you're making a discussion again. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 00:12, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, nobody has said anything remotely insulting. If you do wish to continue the discussion, that's up to you. All you have to do is to provide citable sources to explain why Viz Media's published title is incorrect, which I asked you to provide before and am still waiting on. If you don't want to continue, don't, but don't demand others act to encourage you to do so, as that is simply discourteous. Justin.Parallax (talk) 10:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Apologize for what exactly? For pointing out that because some people stubbornly refuse to accept Wikipedia's policies and guidelines on naming policies, there will be no end to this debate? If you took offense to that, you need to step away from this topic and reflect on why you are offended by that statement. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 13:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm talking about the accusation that I accused people of being fanatical. I was responding to [23] and trying to diffuse the situation. I don't think posting arguments here is a good idea at this point. I already refuted the claim about Viz Media's title being the official and most common one, so what is the point of repeating it now? DragonZero, Justin.Parallax and yourself seem to be assuming bad faith. You might want to take a step back, maybe try some tea. It seems like the best thing to do is post everything in one massive dump when making the next move request.Mojo-chan (talk) 17:53, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I can assure you that I am assuming only the best of faith. But Mojo, you are criticizing the tone of the discussion, and are now accusing others of bad faith. This isn't appropriate. Please consult the below diagram which may be helpful in how to respond to disputes, you are currently hovering around the yellow/orange level on this. Please try to discuss the central tenets of the discussion instead. I'd also suggest reading over the dispute resolution page and Keep calm and if you have read them before, perhaps give them a quick refresher. If you continue to make accusations of attacks then I will be happy to raise this with WP:3O to assist in finding resolution. Remember that Wikipedia needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. Justin.Parallax (talk) 18:15, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

You have already hit the ad hominem level I think, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Obviously if you want to get a 3rd opinion that is fine, but I think it would be better to wait for the next move request and just state your arguments then. That way we can have it all presented neatly and in one place, with every opportunity given for counter-argument and debate, and then get a neutral third party to comment on it. Perhaps dispute resolution would be appropriate then too.

Really, there is no need to be so patronising. Please have some respect for other editors. Can we at least agree on that? Mojo-chan (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I have full respect for other editors, I have made no ad hominem or any other attack on you, and I am not being patronising. If you feel I am, that is your perogative and I regret that you feel that way, but my intentions are certainly not to belittle you. If you wish to wait to discuss this later then I have no problem with that, please do so. However, all you seem to be doing at this current time is stating that you have more sources which you are refusing to cite (claiming repeatedly that you will introduce them later), and accusing others who have disagreed with you of bad faith - it is no wonder that others are growing abrupt with you. I'd urge you to maybe step back from this discussion as I am now doing, and return later when the discussion is once again active, because your current contributions are somewhat unconstructive to what you are attempting to achieve. That's not being patronising, that's friendly and sincere advice. Justin.Parallax (talk) 21:04, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, I must respectfully disagree with most of what you said there. I have already stated that I'm not going to post anything further until the next move request and I can't see any point continuing here because it's clear that there is nothing that can be said to improve the situation. As such I will withdraw for now and return next month. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

"I'm talking about the accusation that I accused people of being fanatical. I was responding to [24] and trying to diffuse the situation."

Actually, your statement is far worse than the original. The original statement was to explain why there is no permanent solution to the naming issue. You took it as an opportunity to attack those who opposed your repeated move requests[25] and now demand an apology for an offense that was never there.

This is an example of the bad faith I am talking about. I did not intend to attack anyone and cannot for the life of me see how you read what I wrote as an attack. I was simply stating an opinion and asking for advice on how to proceed. I am not demanding an apology either, merely asking for one to show some understanding and acknowledgement that offence was not intended. My primary goal is to draw a line under this and dispel any assumption of bad faith so that when you next want to respond to one of my points it is in a more calm and positive manner. I must admit, I think it is beyond my ability to do that now. Mojo-chan (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

"I already refuted the claim about Viz Media's title being the official and most common one"

You have presented no evidence to refute the claims. You cannot made your own claims, but not provide any evidence via reliable sources to back them up. Whether you like it or not, Viz Media's title is the official title for the English language market. And in order to succeed in renaming the article to something else, you must demonstrate that the preponderance of reliable English-language sources does not refer to the work by Viz's title. As for the claim that Viz Media's title isn't official, that is like claiming that Barak Obama is not the President of the United States because you disagree with his policies.

You can go on about how other editors who disagree with you must be doing so because they must be assuming bad faith. However, that in itself is an assumption of bad faith. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

The evidence was posted in the original discussion, you can read it above. There is more to follow next time, as I didn't have a chance to post it previously. Mojo-chan (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

2015 Break

I found out that the series is published in English in Singapore under its original name:

• "Products." Shogakukan Asia. Retrieved on June 2, 2015.

Does that change anything in regards to the naming consensus? @Mojo-chan: @24.149.119.20: @Justin.Parallax: @Bumblezellio: @DragonZero: @Samuel Curtis: @Justin.Parallax: WhisperToMe (talk) 18:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

• • From the preview available at Shogakukan Asia's site all characters use the original Japanese names (if link doesn't work, do this: "Products -> Detective Conan Ten Seconds of Terror (show preview)." Shogakukan Asia. Retrieved on June 2, 2015.</ref>) WhisperToMe (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Crunchyroll + North America + Europe creates more notability than Singapore's adaptation. I'll have to fix your edits to the article if I remember later. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:08, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

@DragonZero: Continental Europe uses the original names... just the UK (and presumably Ireland) imports from the US and uses the dub names (although the only countries that release it in English in Europe are the UK/Ireland). I'll check to see if the Singapore adaptation is imported into Australia/NZ and/or India. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:57, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't see Detective Conan/Case Closed on Madman Australia's list (and it looks like they do import a bunch from the US). WhisperToMe (talk) 04:20, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@DragonZero: The official Shogakukan Asia page says the books are distributed in: Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei, Thailand, and Indonesia. From my understanding all of the products are in English. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:28, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

You are expecting me too answer way to quickly. Back to the original topic. The majority of English notability is towards Case Closed. Rather than going into what ifs and what nots, I'll offer my view of when the article will most likely change to Detective Conan. It's most likely when North America and the UK publishes the series under that name. I'm not enforcing anything here nor am I the cause of this. Hell, the plot was using Shinichi Kudo for months and the article could be outdated enough to lose its GA status for all I know right now. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Don't worry... I was just pinging all interested parties from the previous discussion so they understand that a new development has come up. Now that Singapore is using a different set of English names it may be good to go back and tally Anglophone reliable sources to confirm that they use "Case Closed" versus "Detective Conan". WhisperToMe (talk) 23:32, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't change the title of the page simply due to a different title being used in Singapore. By all means, the article could mention that the name of the product is different in other locations across the world (as are the names of most products), but this WP is english language so should 'default' to the accepted title in the USA/UK marketplace. That's my opinion still, but thanks for thinking to ask me :) Justin.Parallax (talk) 11:12, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Justin.Parallax: You're welcome. Shogakukan Asia's distribution network is not only Singapore, but also Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, and Brunei... essentially all English-speakers in Southeast Asia. I don't know if Detective Conan is distributed to all of these countries. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:35, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

In regards to this edit summary: "Singapore not a minority here. Keeping it as English." - I'm a bit confused by the edit summary. I still believe that the exact English releases should be specified as "North American and British": The Singaporean release does use the original name and the original characters. Singapore has a different legal system from the United States. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:33, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Is a minority. The lead is for the generalized information and not the exceptions. The specified English releases had phrasing issues and disrupts the flow. Keeping it generalized is better. It's better kept within the article. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 00:16, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@DragonZero: The lead should summarize the article. Even though the English-speaking populations of Singapore, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia combined (possibly also English speakers in Thailand and Indonesia) are a minority compared to the combined populations of the United States, Canada, and the UK, the lead in your version completely ignores the existence of the Singapore version. A person living in Southeast Asia will not even see the Singapore version. Yes, it does exist, and it should be acknowledged in the lead. That can be done unobtrusively and taking into account that it's a minority. Just say "known in Japan and Singapore as Detective Conan". Remember we also operate under the Wikipedia:Systemic bias principle, which means we need to cover the whole world. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Which is done within the article, but too minor for the lead. My stance is still the same, and I haven't done anything that voids the MoS. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 19:18, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

@DragonZero: I am asking the "Systemic Bias" WikiProject their opinion on the matter. I am also notifying the Anime WikiProject that I notified the project. If you think there needs to be more notification I may start an RFC on the lead of this article. See: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias#Case_Closed_.28Detective_Conan.29_and_titles_in_various_English-speaking_countries WhisperToMe (talk) 06:00, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree that the existence of the Singapore version does not suddenly mean that Detective Conan becomes the best know English name. Now if Western Europe of the States decides to use this version we would have a case.--67.68.29.99 (talk) 18:58, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

@67.68.29.99: Most of Western Europe does use "Detective Conan" or variants of it. The only thing is that they're not English-speaking countries. The United Kingdom imports its release from the USA, which is why it uses Case Closed. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Proposed lead

Based on the existence of the Southeast Asian version of the series I would like to propose this lead:

• "Case Closed, known originally as Meitantei Conan (名探偵コナン?, lit. Great Detective Conan), officially translated as and released in Southeast Asia as Detective Conan'), is a Japanese detective manga series written and illustrated by Gosho Aoyama."

WhisperToMe (talk) 06:43, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

• Support, but without that extra apostrophe. I'm not sure if the "officially translated as and" needs to be there either - its fairly obvious its translated. -- haminoon (talk) 06:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose The lead already states that Detective Conan is the original English translation of the title. However, by inserting Southeast Asia into the lead, you make it appear that the work is only called that in Southeast Asia. —Farix (t | c) 11:14, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't clearly state it was the original translation and neither does the citation. How do we know the original translation wasn't Great Detective Conan? -- haminoon (talk) 11:30, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

The Japanese covers.[26] "Great Detective" is a literal translation of Meitantei (名探偵), which may not be all that accurate in that Google translate is as "Master Detective". —Farix (t | c) 22:52, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

To avoid excessive wordiness and because of the ambiguity of the literal translation, I've changed it to "Case Closed, also known as Detective Conan (名探偵コナン, Meitantei Conan), is a Japanese detective manga series written and illustrated by Gosho Aoyama."

• Oppose Phrasing, clarity, and prose issues. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 00:49, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Fox Kids

According to the Lost Media Wiki, Fox considered dubbing the Case Closed anime for their Fox Kids programming block back in 2000. I am unable to find much evidence, apart from the aforementioned website, to support this rumor. Can anyone confirm this? DJ Autagirl (talk) 22:09, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I think that's all the info you'll get. Companies are very hush hush about this kind of stuff. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 22:33, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

What you saw on the Wikia may very well have be vandalism. —Farix (t | c) 12:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I would be really suspicious since airing the show without any deaths or violence would have been extremely hard to pull off.--174.91.187.135 (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Move request December 2015

Just a heads up, I plan to request a move to correct the article name around December 2015, probably starting around the 24th. If you have arguments to support for/against, please prepare them. I've reviewed the previous debates and have several thousand words worth of rebuttal to the opposing arguments to post. Mojo-chan (talk) 10:35, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if now is a good time to mention this, but is there a page for Case Closed that talks about the phrase itself? Whenever I look up "Case Closed" in news sites, I get everything BUT the manga or anime on the front page.

Also...why do the unlicensed movies have "Case Closed" in place for "Detective Conan"? Magicperson6969 (talk) 23:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Cause no one, Me???, cares enough to enforce that kind of stuff anymore. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 04:23, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Case Closed (manga) page move

Why was the title moved to Case Closed (manga) without the discussion? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:49, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I would presume that it is because of the recent creation of Case Closed (film) and whether the manga is the primary topic. If the film article hadn't been created, this article would still be at Case Closed per WP:CONCISE. —Farix (t | c) 18:06, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Magic Kaito reference

The manga (Case Closed) has numerous tie-ins and cameos from one of AOYAMA's other series, Magic Kaito, which is mentioned on the Magic Kaito page. Shouldn't there be some reference to this on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hate9 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

No. The character is already explained in the characters list, that's enough. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 21:21, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 01 November 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: procedural revert to Case Closed. The original move is clearly not noncontroversial and is hence invalid per RM protocol. I invite the original mover to open a RM discussion and invite wide discussion as we have a disparate population of editors who will see primary topic in different ways here. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:36, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

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Case Closed (manga) → Case Closed – The main manga article should still be named Case Closed as that is the predominant search result. The other uses should be renamed back to the Case Closed (disambiguation) article. This was moved recently without proper discussion and requires a technical move to restore it. – AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:55, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• @AngusWOOF: Object. The lawcourt procedure expression "Case Closed" is far more significant than a Japanese comic strip. Currently page Case Closed is the disambig page. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that the move had been done without any discussion like this. So why does it need a discussion to move this back to how it was so a proper discussion can be done? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:43, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Support we do not have an article about the lower court expression and likely never will. Also, considering the fact that the expression was not even mentioned before the dab page was created on the 30th and that no one complained about that fact during the many years that this was titled Case Closed strongly indicates that people were not looking for the expression in the first place. I do not think that a one sentence dictionary entry on dab page that was not being looked up or even asked about before it was crated should take precedence over this aricle.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 23:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose: malformed multimove Case Closed (film) and so on. Has anyone checked in Google Books to see what else there is? In ictu oculi (talk) 00:12, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Books indicate this article should be at Detective Conan not at Case Closed (manga) In ictu oculi (talk) 00:17, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Case Closed is the English-language title of the series. The manga is still being published by Viz under that title[27] and Crunchyroll is simulcasting the anime series under the name Case Closed.[28] —Farix (t | c) 01:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=Case+Closed&namespace=0 . (And is "punished" above a typo for "published"?) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:17, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. SephyTheThird (talk) 10:53, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Other books: the 1993 novel by Posner (but the article is not created), the 2015 FBI novel by Weinstein (neither the novel article or the author is created), and the novel by Cornwell (where it is used as a subtitle). Those are clearly minor situations. The Case Closed (film) is also a stub-level TV movie that is barely notable. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

The TV movie should be further disambiguated to Case Closed (1988 film) as there are many films under the Case Closed franchise all with different subtitles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:29, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose it is clearly not the manga, if anything, the manga is greatly eclipsed by the TV show -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 09:41, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment the standard media property set of articles should be created here, to deal with this like the rest of Wikipedia deals with media properties, instead of the weird divisions found only in anime/manga, which has exactly the same issues as the rest of the media properties in Wikipedia. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 16:03, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

By Oppose, you are saying it should stay as Case Closed (manga). Are you sure that's what you want? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:11, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Unless the opposer meant the Spanish language court show (aricle is spelled differently) I believe that it can be disregarded since there is not going to be a separate article for thr anime.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 22:21, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Support Clearly the primary topic. All three main criteria that determine primary topic point to this article. --Mika1h (talk) 12:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
• Comment This would be the same situation as Cold Case vs. Cold Case (disambiguation); Lost Girl vs. Lost Girl (disambiguation); or One Piece vs. One-piece. The expression itself would not be titled in caps, and the titled version refers primarily to the manga subject at hand. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:34, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
• Update I was able to technically move the disambiguation page back to Case Closed (disambiguation). AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
  • I have reverted this page move until the conclusion of this move request. The disambiguation page was originally created at Case Closed after this page was moved to Case Closed (manga). —Farix (t | c) 21:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Support The only other search term that users might use for "Case Closed" is for a film from 1988 that's a stub. Clearly nowhere near as popular as the manga. Opencooper (talk) 23:13, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Support for procedural reasons, i.e. to undo a recent undiscussed move. The onus should be on those who favour the current title to justify it. —  AjaxSmack  23:57, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose: The expression "Case closed" has been used longer and is more popular than this series (under the "Case Closed" name). While the manga and anime are somewhat popular (under the "Case Closed" name), the expression itself is used more often in almost every news story and in some hashtag social networks (like Twitter). Whenever I do see "Case Closed" as a way of referring to the manga, I end up seeing "Detective Conan" tagged with it for the most part (sometimes "Detective Conan" is standalone). The only other main name that would work here would be "Detective Conan" - that name is used more often when referring to the manga and anime than "Case Closed". Magicperson6969 (talk) 03:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

a the use of Detective Conan a the main title had already been rejected since Case Closed is the official English language title of the work and is consistent with the way that anime titles are covered. Alos I don't see much of s case for the term since diet is a one sentence entry on thr dabpage that did not even exist until recently. I think you may be overestimating how popular the term is.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 05:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose As an older adult, I would never think of "Case Closed" as a manga or anime title. I have used and heard the phrase my entire life before the manga series was ever created. 75.82.218.97 (talk) 03:57, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

I disagree thr expression is a one sentence entry on the dab page which I can not see expanded into anything meaningful for article purposes. In fact the term was not even covered at all for the several years that the this article was titled Case Closed. If the term was as popular as is being suggested I am sure that multiple people searching for it would have been surprised to see this aricle and have complained a long time ago that the more popular term was not being covered.--65.94.253.102 (talk) 05:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

This would be a case of WP:NWFCTM. Yes, the expression was around much longer. But the expression is not a primary topic, especially the capitalized "Closed" version. It's fine to redirect "Case closed" to the disambiguation, as with "Cold case", just not "Case Closed" / "Cold Case". AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

• Comment - If this is not moved back to "Case Closed", then I think it would be better to place it at "Detective Conan" rather than "Case Closed (manga)" (per WP:NCDAB and WP:NATURALDIS). I think my preference on the title in general would be "Detective Conan" first, "Case Closed" second, and "Case Closed (manga)" third. I'm therefore uncertain about this move, as while I think it would put the article at a better name, it wouldn't put it at what I think is the best name. I know "Detective Conan" was rejected in past discussions, but I don't think I agree with those discussions. I think Detective Conan may actually be the most common name used in English reliable sources (for instance, Anime News Network seems to refer to the series as "Detective Conan" more often than "Case Closed", though they use "Case Closed" when specifically talking about the US release and also in the titles of their encyclopedia pages for parts of the franchise that have been released under that title). Using "Detective Conan" also would make the page names consistent with pages for things that used that name for the English release (e.g., Lupin the 3rd vs. Detective Conan), and things that don't have an official English name (e.g., any of the more recent films). Calathan (talk) 22:25, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
• Comment. Anthony Appleyard, this is why requests to revert recent undiscussed moves should always be actioned. If the original bold mover still believes a move is appropriate, they can open an RM. You now have people supporting this move purely on a procedural basis, which is likely to force a no consensus result. That will result in the article being moved back where it was. Those arguing for the title to have disambiguation would actually have been better served if you had moved it back at the original request. Obviously it is too late to change things now, but please keep this in mind in future. Jenks24 (talk) 08:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose The question comes to what is the primary topic for those looking up the term "case close". The overwhelming majority of links are for the manga series. However, if you do a Google news search to see who reliable sources use the term, you will quickly discover that the manga is not the primary use,[29] and a book search shows a mix between the manga and other uses of the term.[30] Secondly, there were no other articles named "Case Closed" on Wikipedia, so page article traffic statistics cannot be used. What is clear is that Case Closed (film) would not be the primary target, as it is a relatively obscure film. Given that it is unclear whether the manga is the primary target, I believe that Case Closed should remain a disambiguation page and the article about the manga titled Case Closed (manga) is the better approach. —Farix (t | c) 00:01, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose for the same reasons as Farix. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:24, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
• Support. Obvious primary topic in terms of traffic, sources and statistics compared to actual articles titled "Case Closed". The phrase "case closed" is not encyclopedic, and there's no article on it, so it's out of the running. That leaves only the TV movie Case Closed (film); the only other entries on the dab page (a novel and TV episodes) are more obscure and have no articles.
  

Also, given the recent moves, if this discussion doesn't close as a consensus for Case Closed (manga), it needs to be returned to the base name as that's the status quo.--Cúchullain ^t/c 04:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose as per Farix. Not primary topic by any normal definition. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:58, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
  • We don't determine primary topic on WP by whatever you consider to be a "normal definition". We use WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --В²C ☎ 22:34, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • It is not the PrimaryTopic because of the other five topics listed at case closed and because the topic most likely to be expected by readers not encultured with Wikipedia peculiarities is wikt:case closed, an idiom, from which, indeed, all others derive. Moving on to long term significance and educational value, the mange is negligible cult fiction, eclipsed by the topic from which the name is derived. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:11, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Users of WP searching for "Case Closed" are so unlikely to be looking for the court idiom we don't even have an article for that use, and rightly so. What some hypothetical user who is not actually searching for "Case Close" on WP would expect to find is not relevant. --В²C ☎ 22:38, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Searches for the court idiom would use "Case closed" with the second word in lower case, and that is acceptable to go to the disambiguation as with the examples previously provided. A similar case can be said with You've Got Mail, in which the lower case version "You've got mail." is an expression, but the upper-case version refers to the movie as primary topic. Similarly there is Die hard vs. Die Hard, the first refers to the expression and the disambiguation, and the second of which refers to the movie. Also, the manga and anime is hardly negligible cult fiction with tens of volumes and hundreds of episodes broadcast in Japan. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

• Yes, Angus, good point on the capitalisation of Closed. Per WP:DIFFCAPS the topic of the idiom of a "closed case", a worthy topic, does not clash, you are right.

On manga and anime, manga and anime are massive yes, which is part of the point, there is so much manga that any specific manga is usually pretty small. Admittedly, this series isa pretty significant case, although on the other hand this title is merely an English language alternative title not connected to sources attesting to the significance of the topic.

I maintain that there is no PrimaryTopic, with the film (Case Closed (film)) and the book (Gerald_Posner#Case_Closed) competitive, and noting that "Case Closed" is not accepted the proper title as is abundantly clear in the talk archives. This article should be titled "Detective Conan". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:01, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Farix's argument is nonsensical, as it concedes there are no other articles named "Case Closed" on WP (notwithstanding the obscure film with a stub article). The court expression is irrelevant as we don't have an article for it nor the demand or even basis for it. --В²C ☎ 22:34, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per B2C. People are claiming the primary topic is the legal definition, yet we have no article on that. It isn't an encyclopedic concept, it's just something people say sometimes. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC concerns itself with disambiguating concepts that actually have articles here on the Wiki, not day to day life. Also, @Anthony Appleyard: I agree with Jenks24 point above. You should not have allowed an "objection" to be raised on a request to revert an undiscussed move, you should have moved the page immediately and then had a discussion from the long standing title. Now the discussion has been confused, a no consensus should result in a move rather than what exists now. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:49, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 15 December 2015

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus for any move at this time; rather, there is a clear consensus against the proposed move. bd2412 T 15:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

• Case Closed → ?
• Case Closed (disambiguation) → Case Closed

– The "Case Closed" phrase is more known than the Japanese graphic novel series and there is other media using this name as well. "Case Closed" appear often in news articles, but it is not often used to refer to the graphic novels. The name "Detective Conan" is used a lot more when referring to the Japanese franchise as opposed to "Case Closed", although there was conflict over that. "Case Closed (manga)" and "Detective Conan" are the choices. Magicperson6969 (talk) 01:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose, but redirect lower-case searches to disambiguations - To summarize my thoughts from the previous RM, a search for "Case Closed" in Wikipedia with both caps on, is an intention to look for the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, which is the manga series franchise. There are similar cases with One Piece which is also a manga/anime franchise, Cold Case the television series, Die Hard the first film, James Bond franchise, Lost Girl TV series, Rocky film, The Matrix film, You've Got Mail film. Searching for Case closed (lower case on second word) or case closed (all lower-case) should point to the disambiguation or expression pages as with One piece, Cold case, and Die hard. Case Closed (film) currently points to a barely notable television movie, and other entries in Case Closed point to television episodes and books that do not have their own notable articles. Detective Conan should not be the main title as it is primary known in the English world through Viz Manga and Funimation anime title of Case Closed per MOS:ANIME.

Searches using stats.grok.se on English Wikipedia show Case Closed being more popular than Detective Conan.

• January 2015 Case Closed
• Last 90 days Case Closed
• January 2015 Detective Conan
• Last 90 days Detective Conan

Case Closed (film) and Case Closed (disambiguation) were created by Magicperson6969 on October 29 and 30, 2015, respectively.

• Last 90 days Case Closed (film)
• Last 90 days Case Closed (disambiguation)

And just for kicks, here's One Piece vs. One piece:

• Last 90 days One Piece
• Last 90 days One-piece

AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:01, 15 December 2015 (UTC), updated 01:02, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• Move to Detective Conan which redirects here anyway, per WP:PRECISION and WP:RECOGNIZABLE. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

That is not the name used in English language media. The previous attempt to move the article to Detective Conan failed to gain consensus for that reason.--72.0.200.133 (talk) 17:32, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

For reference the discussion was at Talk:Case Closed/Archive 3#Requested move October 2013 granted that was two years ago but what has changed since then.--72.0.200.133 (talk) 17:36, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose, as before. The phrase "Case Closed" has no article and never should per WP:NOTDIC. Looking at the topics that are actually covered, the statistics and sources show this to be the primary topic over the only other subject with an article, the TV movie Case Closed (film), and the even more obscure other topics listed on the dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:57, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

The phrase "Case Closed" would be "Case closed". It doesn't even conflict. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:52, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose, per Cuchullain. The nom's reasoning is irrelevant to WP title choices. "Overridden", "So moved" and "Kiss my ass" are also well known phrases with no articles on WP. The first two have no uses whatsoever (hence, red links); the last is a dab page (Kiss My Ass) for a number of uses by the band Kiss and makes no reference to the phrase. Unless the use of a phrase has a legitimate place in WP as an article or at least as a redirect to an article subsection, there is no reason to consider it in deciding how to title articles about topics with the same name but with legitimate uses. Why is this so difficult to understand and appreciate? --В²C ☎ 21:08, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
• Speedy close too soon after the previous RM, with nothing substantially different. The previous close was a "no consensus", so wait at least two months, and even then make a better summary of the previous discussion. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:25, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose speed close. I think there was a lot of confusion in the last discussion, still unfortunately reflected in this nom. But if we can settle it with a solid consensus opposing, which I think is likely, that's better than leaving it in a "no consensus" state. Let the discussion continue... --В²C ☎ 00:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
    • There is no scope for a respectable discussion here. The nomination is an abuse of process. The participants will over-represent tendentious editors. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:20, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose the stats appear to show that this is the most searched for entry for people looking up this term. Also, the legal phrase, while it may be used a lot is clearly nowhere near notable enough to be covered on Wikipedia. Finally based on the fact this this page has been at Case Closed since January 30th 2005 and the legal term never even disucssd before the move rewuest it would mean it took over a decade before anyone released that the primary topic was not benign covered.--174.91.187.180 (talk) 06:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
• Keep it at Case Closed for now. I personally believe the article should be located at Detective Conan, but the two-English-titles debate is beyond the scope of this discussion and the hypothetical "Case closed" article would not conflict with this article regardless of what we end up calling this work in the end.  ONR  (talk)  11:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Naval Rooftops (talk • contribs)
• Oppose per the reasons above. Not much else to add. Calidum T|C 03:36, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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First volume cover as profile picture and change the title into "Detective Conan"

200.45.154.238 has been blocked as a sockpuppet. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:56, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Could someone please change the profile picture into the very first volume cover and change the title into "Detective Conan"? It has to be the very first volume cover for a spoilers and common sense topic. And it has to be also "Detective Conan" and not "Case Closed" because that's the original title of the series regardless what the English version chose. PLEASE. There are also no spoilers on covers and the existing cover does a sufficient job at identifying the subject of the article. You did not provide a reason why a different cover would better identify the subject. Also, the work is known as Case Closed in the English language and is thus the common English name. —Farix (t | c) 20:40, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Request.

Could someone please rename the title into Detective Conan? That's the original title of the series. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.245.229.121 (talk) 14:47, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. See Talk:Case Closed/Archive 3 AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Note for the user: It is true the Singapore-published volumes (released in the following English-speaking territories: Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, and Brunei, and also in Indonesia and Thailand) use Detective Conan but the userbase for now prefers to use Case Closed which is used in the US, UK, Canada, and Ireland by Viz (I'm not sure if it is officially licensed in Australia and NZ). I did say that I would propose a move request if an official English release in India uses/used Detective Conan but this hasn't happened so far. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:35, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 18 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Closed as a disruptive request by block-evading IP. Favonian (talk) 09:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

---

• Case Closed → Detective Conan
• List of Case Closed films → List of Detective Conan films
• Case Closed: The Time Bombed Skyscraper → Detective Conan: The Time Bombed Skyscraper
• Case Closed: The Fourteenth Target → Detective Conan: The Fourteenth Target
• Case Closed: The Last Wizard of the Century → Detective Conan: The Last Wizard of the Century
• Case Closed: Captured in Her Eyes → Detective Conan: Captured in Her Eyes
• Case Closed: Countdown to Heaven → Detective Conan: Countdown to Heaven
• Case Closed: The Phantom of Baker Street → Detective Conan: The Phantom of Baker Street
• List of Case Closed episodes (seasons 1–15) → List of Detective Conan episodes (seasons 1–15)
• Case Closed (season 1) → Detective Conan (season 1)
• Case Closed (season 2) → Detective Conan (season 2)
• Case Closed (season 3) → Detective Conan (season 3)
• Case Closed (season 4) → Detective Conan (season 4)
• Case Closed (season 5) → Detective Conan (season 5)
• Case Closed (season 6) → Detective Conan (season 6)
• Case Closed (season 7) → Detective Conan (season 7)
• Case Closed (season 8) → Detective Conan (season 8)
• Case Closed (season 9) → Detective Conan (season 9)
• Case Closed (season 10) → Detective Conan (season 10)
• Case Closed (season 11) → Detective Conan (season 11)
• Case Closed (season 12) → Detective Conan (season 12)
• Case Closed (season 13) → Detective Conan (season 13)
• Case Closed (season 14) → Detective Conan (season 14)
• Case Closed (season 15) → Detective Conan (season 15)
• List of Case Closed episodes (seasons 16–current) → List of Detective Conan episodes (seasons 16–current)
• Case Closed (season 16) → Detective Conan (season 16)
• Case Closed (season 17) → Detective Conan (season 17)
• Case Closed (season 18) → Detective Conan (season 18)
• Case Closed (season 19) → Detective Conan (season 19)
• Case Closed (season 20) → Detective Conan (season 20)
• Case Closed (season 21) → Detective Conan (season 21)
• Case Closed (season 22) → Detective Conan (season 22)
• Case Closed (season 23) → Detective Conan (season 23)
• Case Closed (season 24) → Detective Conan (season 24)
• Case Closed (season 25) → Detective Conan (season 25)
• Case Closed (season 26) → Detective Conan (season 26)
• Case Closed (season 27) → Detective Conan (season 27)
• List of Case Closed volumes → List of Detective Conan volumes
• List of Case Closed volumes (1–20) → List of Detective Conan volumes (1–20)
• List of Case Closed volumes (21–40) → List of Detective Conan volumes (21–40)
• List of Case Closed volumes (41–60) → List of Detective Conan volumes (41–60)
• List of Case Closed volumes (61–80) → List of Detective Conan volumes (61–80)
• List of Case Closed volumes (81–current) → List of Detective Conan volumes (81–current)
• List of Case Closed OVAs → List of Detective Conan OVAs
• List of Case Closed characters → List of Detective Conan characters
• Case Closed discography → Detective Conan discography
• List of Case Closed video games → List of Detective Conan video games

– The Japanese manga and anime series 名探偵コナン is known as Detective Conan around the world because all covers of 名探偵コナン 's manga volumes, anime episodes, films and OVAs made by Shogakukan call 名探偵コナン as Detective Conan. In addition, when English Wikipedia names the seventh to twenty-third films for 名探偵コナン, Detective Conan is at the beginning of these films' titles (For Japanese version of the 23 films for 名探偵コナン, 名探偵コナン is at the beginning of all these films' titles). In conclusion, 名探偵コナン is reflected as Detective Conan. However, when English Wikipedia names the most parts of the related articles for 名探偵コナン, 名探偵コナン is still named as Case Closed, which is opposite from the reality and make more confusion and chaos. In order to reflect the reality and avoid the confusion and chaos, it is necessary to replace Case Closed with Detective Conan in the titles of the related articles for 名探偵コナン, as this requested move listed. ~~68.183.187.226 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.187.226 (talk) 15:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per Talk:Case_Closed/Archive_3#Long_term_name_consensus. Manga volumes in English are still being produced with the Case Closed name, and episodes are still posted on Netflix under this name. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:25, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: But the reality is the official publisher Shogakukan calls 名探偵コナン as Detective Conan, and known around the world. ~~68.183.187.226 18:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

• Redirect Just redirect all red links. Sincerely, Masum Reza^☎ 19:41, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
• Comment: This is likely the same person who's already been blocked for sockpuppetry in related matters. O.N.R. ^(talk) 19:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per previous discussions and WP:COMMONNAME as it is used by reliable English-language sources. Both the manga and anime are officially licensed and released as Case Closed despite what a small group of dedicated fans prefer. —Farix (t | c) 20:30, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose nothing has changed since the last discussion. The anime is still referred to as Case Closed on Netflix (and these are subbed Japanese episodes they never never dubbed), also, the English manga, as mentioned, is still being released under the name case closed. The all around the world argument is also irrelevant here since this is the English language Wikipedia meaning we base the title on what it’s referred to in reliable English language sources and no evidence has been provided to indicate that Detective Conan has overtaken Case Closed in that regard.--64.229.166.98 (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
• Yet another RM on same subject by same blocked Sock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.183.187.226 In ictu oculi (talk) 06:46, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Note to readers: The userbase is aware of the existence of the SE Asia version, but continues to use Case Closed as that is used in the US, Canada, UK, and Ireland (as per Viz). I did say that I would propose a move request if an official English release in India uses/used Detective Conan but this hasn't happened so far. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

This shouldn't be affected by any new Indian English versions generated as it's been under the Viz Media one for much longer than that. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 01:29, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Its possible time and duration of each release could be a factor, bit I still think the issue should be revisited if India gets the original names in an English version as the number of L2 English speakers is about 200 million or so (out of over 1 billion). If there are official broadcasts or printings in Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc that would up the number. There are other factors such as how many RSes use each, how many after the English sub releases use what, etc WhisperToMe (talk) 13:52, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Separate Detective Conan and Case Closed

People will continue to argue about this, so why don't just make two versions for this series? Just like the Doraemon and the Disney Doraemon articles on this wiki. Ezio's Assassin (talk) 13:24, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Not when they refer to the same media only translated. This isn't a completely reworked adaptation like with Power Rangers / Super Sentai. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:15, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree and on another note I’m not sure if Doraemon: Gadget Cat from the Future should be a separate article either.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 06:21, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Requests.

Hello there. I just wanted to know if you are willing to put the first volume cover as profile picture and to change the title into Detective Conan. Yeah, I'm the usual guy who used to ask for this, but now I need confirmation about this. Please don't block me! I'm just asking nicely if this could be done. Please reply asap. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Usercontributor4559438 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

The first request is denied. It uses a volume cover from another article, and Wikipedia wants to reduce its amount of non-free content as much as possible. The second request is denied. Wikipedia takes licensed name over the Japanese name. Even Netflix has the series under the name Case Closed in America. D.Zero (Talk · Contribs) 00:21, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

One top of that Netflix uses the Case Closed name even though the episodes aired are Subtitled Japanese only episodes that were never dubbed it English.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 15:51, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Original poster was blocked for sock editing same old topic. Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Samsungx635/Archive AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:44, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Request.

Hello there. Just wanted to ask nicely if it could be possible to consider this article a featured article with a yellow star since it is one of the best-selling mangas in history and a very interesting series. Please reply asap. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.147.210 (talk) 21:11, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@201.235.147.210: Hi! To do that, the article needs to be revised and submitted to the Wikipedia:Featured article process. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:42, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Request

I request for the first volume cover to be added to this Wikipedia article. If not, explain why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.147.210 (talk) 13:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Please see the discussions above. 331dot (talk) 14:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

"Kir(Case Closed)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Kir(Case Closed). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 28#Kir(Case Closed) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Slashme (talk) 09:26, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Renaming into Detective Conan and first volume cover

Hi. Sorry for the insistence, but it's really necessary for consistency that this Wikipedia article to rename its title into Detective Conan, since that's the original naming, and change the profile picture into the first volume cover. If you still are negated to do so, please explain shortly the reason below me. Otherwise, I'd have to do a long search in order to find the reason archived somewhere, which I won't do so. Please reply to me as soon as possible. Thanks.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.147.210 (talk • contribs)

This has been answered above, several times. If you continue to make the same pointless request again and again, your IP will be blocked from editing this page. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Licensing?

I found Odex had licensed several of the movies for distribution in Southeast Asia but I don't know if this should count for the main TV series http://web.archive.org/web/20180210181629/http://www.odex.com.sg/ProgramLibrary.html WhisperToMe (talk) 17:45, 23 December 2020 (UTC)