Talk:Case Closed/Archive 1

Moved to "Case Closed"?

If this should be moved to "Case Closed", when should it be moved? WhisperToMe 02:45, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't know. Do any of you watch this show? Ranko_no_baka Oct. 28 2004

I've seen a few episodes. I wanna get the manga someday... WhisperToMe 02:18, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cool. I'm up to Season 6 on the anime. And I know a place were they lend the manga books- but it's in Chinese... X| So... yea. Well... bye for now. "Ranko" 23:05, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

Since apparently both the manga and the anime use the English names, wouldn't that mean they should also be used throughout the article? Not sure on the policy, if any, on something like this but it seems logical to me. Maestro25 06:27, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)

The policy states that usually the most popular names are to be used. Now, if there is cocensus that the English names should be used, I will go with that. Keep in mind that in order to "match" that, "Case Closed" should be the title of this article. WhisperToMe 06:46, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well I think Detective Conan is the most popular name. Please remember that the series exists since 1995 and the title Detective Conan is better known. Another uption would be to move it to Meitantei Conan. It´s the romanji form of the japanese name. It means master detective (maybe the term master isn´t right. I´m sorry but English isn´t my native language.) ckorff Sa Apr 9 10:10:00 UTC 2005

The name "Case Closed" is becoming more and more well known in the English-speaking world. By the way, this is the English Wikipedia. WhisperToMe 15:41, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I can't say for sure if the English names are more popular or if the other ones are. I personally like the 'Japanese' ones (Shinichi, Ran, etc.) But that's just me. I really don't like the name changes. They irritate me. >_< Again, that's just me.--"Ranko" 22:07, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

They irritate me too and I'm pushin' for Viz to publish a Japanese-name version of Conan. WhisperToMe 23:34, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sometime I'll move this to Case Closed and move the characters to the English anime names... argh! WhisperToMe 01:00, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Nooooo!!! I'll mail VIZ... when I learn how... eh he he... sorry. ^_^' "Ranko" 01:48, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

I'll give you the addresses for VIZ and other companies... WhisperToMe 02:38, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks sooo much! =^-^= Now I'm off to find an evelope, paper, and a pen... hmmm... XP "Ranko" 00:23, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

This is bullshit. For about a half decade Detective Conan was only known as Detective Conan or Meitantei Conan in the english world simply because nobody was intrested. The US tv release? Censored and truncated. Plus they air it in the night. Another thing because WhisperToMe mentioned that this is the english wikipedia is the fact that it´s not released to other english-speaking countrys than north america. --ckorff 12:35, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it is "coolshiite" :) - Since North America is the only one to get an English-language adaptation in the first place... WhisperToMe 19:52, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Whether or not this is the English-language Wikipedia should have no effect on how accurate the information is. This reference should be encyclopedic in nature and not cater to what some people may or may not already know or prefer, and popularity should have no place here either. The English name of the (original) anime and manga series is Detective Conan (the Japanese romaji name being Meitantei Conan) and the "altered", licensed version is named Case Closed. If someone feels that strongly about keeping the licensed name then that person should make a separate Wikipedia entry dedicated to only that version. It would be interesting to see just how many other animes did or didn't have their names in Wikipedia changed for the sake of the licensed changes, so anyone willing to look into that and list them here would be helpful in settling this. To start this off, some that come to mind that were not changed are Rurouni Kenshin (Samurai X), Cardcaptor Sakura (Cardcaptors), and Saint Seiya (Knights of the Zodiac).--Kamasutra 22:01, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Accurate? Accurate? HUH?

Your examples don't work. That is because:

• Rurouni Kenshin - Most releases (Media Blasters, VIZ Media) used the original title. Only the OVA's used the "Samurai X" title, as ADV could not use the "Rurouni Kenshin" name.
• Cardcaptor Sakura - Manga release (by TOKYOPOP) and uncut anime (by Geneon) use original title.
• Saint Seiya - ADV's release uses original title.

However, all English-language releases are under "Case Closed". WhisperToMe 08:24, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I see your points, but since I could not find a case exactly like this one I could only list similar ones and was indulging the popularity belief that I've seen you bring up and which I'll try to incorporate as well. The Kenshin OVA 1 being by far more popular than any other part of the series and integrated into the Rurouni Kenshin article instead of having a separate one (considering that that's the only way the OVA is known in North America) and "Samurai X" even being re-directed there. If you want cases that are the exact same then I suppose we should stop talking about external examples unless you can find one that I couldn't. It's too bad a google search couldn't settle the popularity aspect since "Case Closed" is used far too often outside of the anime reference. More importantly, it seems like you ignored everything I said before my last two sentences. This Wikipedia is just in the English language and does not have to necessarily accommodate for changes made in a specific region (that happens to mostly speak English). This is read by English-speakers throughout the world and I don't think I need to remind anyone that most people that watch anime prefer raws or subbed versions and fan-translated manga scans since, among other reasons, they’re always further along and usually readily available on the internet. If you truly don't know why it should be titled the English name of the original, unedited version after reading both of my entries on this subject then you don't even need to bother responding because I won't bother trying to convince you anymore since I've already given everything I have and will not pursue this matter any further. It's redirected either way, but I just believe the actual title shouldn't change for the sake of a company, having nothing to do with the original production, editing and releasing it with a changed title, even if it is “currently” the only official English version. I say “currently” because that could possibly change and it would be nice to make the article future-proof before there are too many links to it. --Kamasutra 02:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"reference. More importantly, it seems like you ignored everything I said before my last two sentences. This Wikipedia is just in the English language and does not have to necessarily accommodate for changes made in a specific region (that happens to mostly speak English). This is read by English-speakers throughout the world and I don't think I need to remind anyone that most people that watch anime prefer raws or subbed "

No I didn't - The US is the only region with an English-language version.

As for Kenshin, the US manga is also popular, and it is titled Rurouni Kenshin. WhisperToMe 09:57, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think most international fans know this series as Detective Conan. As long as it redirects here, I don't think there'll be any problems, but shouldn't we go with the original name, as it is done with Sailor Moon, Utena, Captain Tsubasa...? Just an opinion. Raystorm 15:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone just moved this page to "Famous Detective Conan (Case Closed)". I changed back to its official name-- but do you all think the "(Case Closed)" part is a bit redundent? Samuel Curtis 16:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

For this dispute, I should give some links: Talk:Jimmy Kudo#Change all reference toward localized names into the originals and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga#Case_Closed.2FDetective_Conan_Naming_Convention_Problems. Samuel Curtis 01:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

"Case Closed" seemed short lived on TV, my money's on "Detective Conan" for most recognized title. I've only seen the show on TV, when it was called Case Closed, but even now when I hear the title I hardly remember what show it is. When I hear "Detective Conan" I know exactly what show it is. Case Closed is a very generic name, and confusion is very likely. Ask yourself, will there be confusion with "Detective Conan"? The article itself discusses the other names the series is known by, and the reasons for that, and we have redirects. -- Ned Scott 02:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

There's a few problems - 1. The British Manga release is Case Closed. 2. The American Manga release is Case Closed. 3. Case Closed still airs on the FUNimation Channel in the USA WhisperToMe 03:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

As for disambiguation with other "Case Closed"s... 1. I cannot find any other series with the title "Case Closed" - With the generic term, it can be at "Case closed" (capitalized as such) WhisperToMe 03:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I mean as a name of anything, not just Wikipedia articles. -- Ned Scott 03:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The generic term can be at "Case closed" - this should rectify the general anything. If another series or anything with the capitalization "Case Closed" arises, then move to "Case Closed (manga and anime series)" WhisperToMe 07:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about confusion with other articles, I'm just saying the name "Case Closed" could easily be mistaken for a name of something else. It sounds like it could be the title for any given detective themed show.-- Ned Scott 00:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

For the discussion of this issue, keep in mind of a few points in WP:UE:

• If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works.
• One should use judgment in such cases as to what would be the least surprising to a user finding the article.
• [W]hen there is no long-established history of usage of the term, more consideration should be given to the correctness of translation, rather than frequency of usage.

Also, in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (books):

• For some books it cannot be determined, not even by educated guesswork which version of the title is the most common. For these books, try to determine, for the in the English-speaking world widely spread versions of the book, which of them was the most authoritative original (that is: the version which contributed most to the book becoming known in the English-speaking world), and stick to the title as it was on that edition.

As a fact, I wonder if I should raise this to Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(use_English)...

Samuel Curtis 13:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Does England get the Case Closed anime? If not, then it's really funny how Gollancz chose to use the dub names anyway (see http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:LepALrjpaXwJ:www.orionbooks.co.uk/extras/Gollancz%2520Paperback.pdf+Gollancz+Manga&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3) - WhisperToMe 14:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, "(that is: the version which contributed most to the book becoming known in the English-speaking world), and stick to the title as it was on that edition." IMO is a toughy. Many times a fansub/scanlation will make the series well known to a cadre of hardcore fans, but casual readers will not notice until official book versions hit the markets. WhisperToMe 14:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

By the way:

• http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=%22Detective+Conan%22+Aoyama+-wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en
• http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=%22Case+Closed%22+Aoyama+-wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en

The two terms get about equal Google hits. WhisperToMe 14:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, internationally, Detective Conan gets way more hits because it was one of the best-selling manga series in eastern Asia, not to mention the revenue on Mainland China. To make the English articles seem more coherent to all the other versions, I propose the change of the article name to Detective Conan and the usage of all original names, with the English names in parentheses. Freshmanwave 3:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Stop It!!!

Today, conan1412 and others started a plan to change several character names in DC/CC-related article, namely, changing it from CC-from to DC-form.

Since the naming issue has not even been resolved, I propose any naming change from UTC 27 July 2006, 06:51 can be reverted as vandalism since that is not NPOV.

Samuel Curtis 09:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism? Crap, it is only returnig to AUTHOR'S names. So change names will be. And it should redirect Case Close to Detective Conan!

Robin_SnnS 08:10, 02 August 2006 (CET)

Robin, there are many cases where Wikipedia uses dub names. Pokemon, anyone?

I don't like these dub names, but all of the English versions of DC use them (anime in US/Canada and manga in US/Canada AND the UK) WhisperToMe 06:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I have to change the legal rationale for stop editing on the name form for now. There is, in fact, a WP namespace article on this: Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Dispute over style sssues, referring to the case Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jguk. The point:

[W]hen either of two styles is acceptable, it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change. For example, with respect to British spelling as opposed to American spelling, it would only be acceptable to change from American spelling to British spelling if the article concerned a British topic. Revert warring over optional styles is unacceptable; if the article uses colour rather than color, it would be wrong to switch simply to change styles, although editors should ensure that articles are internally consistent. If in doubt, defer to the style used by the first major contributor.

Thanks for User:Ned Scott for providing this. Samuel Curtis 11:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I don´t said get rid americanised names at all, I just want you know, that english is international language and en.wiki is source for more than only british and americans. And most of world don´t know any Jimmy, but Shinichi yes. All I did at yesterday night, was change names to its origin, becouse some parts of article uses american /you don´t want to know word for this/ and other parts uses jp original. So I made a few changes to look it correctly. It is kind of ugly surprise to see, that next morning is everything back. Robin_SnnS 17:04, 02 August 2006 (CET)

Well, the problem is that English is not the language of any of the editions that use the original names. For that matter - the rest of the world can buy Case Closed on Amazon in English. The only problem is, the books use the dub names! WhisperToMe 15:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Let make things clear:

1.) English is international language, so is also english wikipedia. For Englishmans it is advantage, but also resposibility in meaning clarity (comprehensibility) information for rest of the world.

2.) Change names uses only English/US official releases, while the english scanslators, fansubers, and rest of official/unofficial world uses original japanese names.

3.) If I'll buy Conan, it will be czech edition (if it will be ever released, I hope, while meantime translating it from english scanslations), either german translation or japanese original.

4.) On Amazon.com I won't buy anything till they'll have non-problematic shipping to czech rep.

Robin_SnnS 17:05, 05 August 2006 (CET)

• "2.) Change names uses only English/US official releases, while the english scanslators, fansubers, and rest of official/unofficial world uses original japanese names." Who cares about scanlators? Many of them quit when Conan got licensed. The rest can have cease and desist letters filed against them. And the random Joe Blow who casually reads comics at the book store would know about the official books.
• "English is international language, so is also english wikipedia. For Englishmans it is advantage, but also resposibility in meaning clarity (comprehensibility) information for rest of the world." - The dub names are very international - North America AND Europe - And the same books are imported to Australia too! Anglophone countries are the only relevant ones for the purposes of this debate.
• "English is international language, so is also english wikipedia. For Englishmans it is advantage, but also resposibility in meaning clarity (comprehensibility) information for rest of the world." But on EN we also cater towards groups of people who speak English - I.E. England, USA, Canada... by the same logic we would be having trouble over the names of Pokemon articles (after all, they have other names in other countries, right?) WhisperToMe 15:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

• English Dub Names are international? You must be kidding! Becouse first time I saw english dub names was here on wiki and I saw almost every release you can download. Never heard about Jimmy Kudo, but Shinichi? YES. Anglophones only are relevant? I don't agree. Reasons same as before and I will repeat it to you, till you will understand. English wiki is not only for english. This serie saw more people under its original/direct translated name than under americanized dumb name.
• You have right even Pokemon must be corrected. But that crazy-funny anime doesn't hurt that much like these awkward english names. IMHO, the common czech joke "Dumb americans!" is right, at least in this case certainly.Robin_SnnS 22:40, 22 November 2006 (CET)

For purely naming disputes, please go back to Talk:Case_Closed#Moved to "Case Closed"? above. I set this topic merely as a notice for editors. Samuel Curtis 16:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Case Closed Naming Conventions

Issues

1. The main article should be named Detective Conan or Case Closed?
2. Which version of character names should be used in articles related to this series? Romanized Japanese (Shinichi Kudo etc) or Anglized (Jimmy Kudo etc) version?
3. When other article refers to characters of this series, which version of the names should be used?

Background information

Main article: Case Closed

This anime/manga series was first published in 1994 and first animated in 1996. Detective Conan is the name given to the series by the Japanese publishers, appearing in small fonts in the logo of the series. Manga official siteanime official site

In 2003, the anime license in the United States was given to FUNimation Entertainment, and, avoiding trademark disputes with Conan the Barbarian, its name in the United States was changed to Case Closed. In the process, the name of the main characters were anglized, persumed under the request from Tokyo Movie Shinsha, Japanese animators of the series. In the same year, the manga was licensed to VIZ Media, using nearly the same set of names.

Subsequent releases in the English world, including Canada and United Kingdom, are based on sublicenses from FUNimation and Viz, hence using the same naming convention. However, people elsewhere knew the show as Detective Conan and refers the characters by their Japanese names.

Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

(Since this topic have been discussed in a few places, the following was extracted from Talk:Case Closed/Name dispute discussions#Moved to "Case Closed"?, Talk:Case Closed/Name dispute discussions#Stop It!!! and Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Anime and Manga#Case Closed/Detective Conan Naming Convention Problems.)

• Wikipedia's naming convention is to use the English titles unless the work is better known by a different title. When in doubt, go with the English title and names. --TheFarix 17:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• I'd go with "Detective Conan" for two reasons: 1) Case Closed is the official English title in North America only. In Singapore for example, the official English title is Detective Conan. As a result, there cannot be an agreement for an "official English" title. 2) More people use Detective Conan, given a search on google. Using Case Closed may cause more confusion.--Karn-b 05:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• Let make things clear:

1. English is international language, so is also english wikipedia. For Englishmans it is advantage, but also resposibility in meaning clarity (comprehensibility) information for rest of the world.
2. Change names uses only English/US official releases, while the english scanslators, fansubers, and rest of official/unofficial world uses original japanese names.
3. If I'll buy Conan, it will be czech edition (if it will be ever released, I hope, while meantime translating it from english scanslations), either german translation or japanese original.
4. On Amazon.com I won't buy anything till they'll have non-problematic shipping to czech rep. Robin_SnnS 17:05, 05 August 2006 (CET)

• • "2.) Change names uses only English/US official releases, while the english scanslators, fansubers, and rest of official/unofficial world uses original japanese names." Who cares about scanlators? Many of them quit when Conan got licensed. The rest can have cease and desist letters filed against them. And the random Joe Blow who casually reads comics at the book store would know about the official books.

• "English is international language, so is also english wikipedia. For Englishmans it is advantage, but also resposibility in meaning clarity (comprehensibility) information for rest of the world." - The dub names are very international - North America AND Europe - And the same books are imported to Australia too! Anglophone countries are the only relevant ones for the purposes of this debate.
• "English is international language, so is also english wikipedia. For Englishmans it is advantage, but also resposibility in meaning clarity (comprehensibility) information for rest of the world." But on EN we also cater towards groups of people who speak English - I.E. England, USA, Canada... by the same logic we would be having trouble over the names of Pokemon articles (after all, they have other names in other countries, right?) WhisperToMe 15:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Comments

• The argument that "Case Closed" is in fact only the North American name, and not the English name, is persuasive. English Wikipedia serves more than just the US and Canada. Given that, I think in the presence of conflicting names we should use the ones closest to the name of the series as given by its creators (with appropriate redirects and notes in the article so that American users searching for "Case Closed" can find the article, of course.) Nandesuka 14:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• As a reader who started on DC comics over 7 years ago... I think that not only Asian countries such as Taiwan and Singapore are used to Detective Conan and their subsequent Japanese character names, I would assume Americans who started on the anime before it was licensed in North America to also prefer the DC names. While I'm not saying that its a "first come first serve" thing, I think that the Case Closed names do not cater to an audience as large or as international. Koura 16:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, but are the Singaporean editions in English? (Taiwan's edition is in Chinese, so it is not relevant to this debate - This is the English-language Wikipedia) WhisperToMe 16:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I happened to have the Singaporean edition; it is in Chinese and actually uses Taiwanese translation. Samuel Curtis 17:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • However I have to note that the name Case Closed used for this series only since early February 2003. Of course there are fans for the series before that date. (The oldest fansite for this series dates from 1998 at latest and of course uses Detective Conan.) --Samuel Curtis 17:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • In my opinion it doesn't matter whether the comics are in Chinese or in English, because what I'm trying to say is that most fans from these regions search have been searching for info on the series in English, and hence are more familiar with the original Japanese names. Believe me when I say that "Rachel Moore" is not only unfamiliar to most readers (especially the older fans who do not watch the anime in US or UK), but really difficult to relate to when compared to their Japanese names. Hence my argument that the Case Closed names to not cater to an audience as large or as internationally. Not only should the convenience of the native English language speakers be considered, but also users who do their searches in English?Koura 15:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Yes, Koura, it does matter. The Chinese comics are relevant to the Chinese Wikipedia - The Italian comics are relevant to the Italian Wikipedia - etc. "(especially the older fans who do not watch the anime in US or UK)" - If they are avid fans, they probably already know about the dub names arrangements. WhisperToMe 21:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• I know my point have been ambigious over this matter, so I have to state it here: Detective Conan is perferred, since it is what the writer wished; the name Case Closed adopted only because of the Conan the Barabrian trademark threat.

However, if there are enough evidence that more potential readers to this page would enter through Case Closed, I would opt for Case Closed. Which meant: what is the first English name they heard of about the series? Detective Conan or Case Closed? Presently I but my bet on Detective Conan since more manga and anime (licensed or pirated) have the words Detective Conan on the cover, or at the title screen. But editors may enlighten me otherwise; I am happy to change. --Samuel Curtis 17:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• The title used shouldn't be which one editors or otaku prefer but which is more likely be known among the average English-language speakers. So any discussion of people choosing one title because they like it should be cast aside as POV pushing and irrelevant. Case Closed is the title used in the US, Canada, and the UK for both the anime and manga. We don't have confirmation about which title is used in the other Anglophone countries Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. However, I'm not sure how much that matters at this point, but knowing the titles used there could help. --TheFarix (Talk) 13:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• The problem is that people think that "Case Closed is the title used [by the official distributors]" is the same thing as "Case Closed is more likely to be known among average English speakers". This is often *not* true for anime. You cannot assume that the official name is most popular or well-known. Ken Arromdee 18:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• I asked a prominent CC/DC fanfic writer who lives in Christchurch, New Zealand. She told me that, in New Zealand, there are seldom manga of any type, and the little manga of this series sold is the imported UK version (Which is basically the same as Viz's.). Some copies of that version are also in the local libraries. Samuel Curtis 06:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• The title should be Detective Conan with Case Closed secondary. The rationale behind this is, the manga appears to have been published in Japan, and their for the Japanese based name should take precedence. The secondary-release title should henceforth be secondary. --Jon Cates 01:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
  • The argument is quickly defused when I mention that Pocket Monsters was originally from Japan. Does this mean we should move Pokemon to Pocket Monsters? (No) WhisperToMe 01:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

• Nobody's done a google test.... 1,020,000 ("Detective Conan" anime OR manga -wikipedia) vs. 614,000 ("Case Closed" anime OR manga -wikipedia) ... I think the results speak for themselves. --Kunzite 02:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh, I did do a google test - A different one! By the way - Kunzite, you forgot to add on the "English" switch. Without the English switch, you will get hits in other languages, which are not relevant to EN.
• Detective Conan
• Case Closed

WhisperToMe 03:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind me wikifing those links. But here is also my head to head results using a slightly different approch.

• Detective Conan — 427,000 English pages (43%)
• Case Closed — 569,000 English pages (57%)

Overall, Case Closed has the lead. However, I generally don't have much faith in Google testing to determine "most common usage". --TheFarix (Talk) 04:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

To WhisperToMe: Did you noticed, that in this discussion you are only one who is really sticking to americanized names? And I also must disagree again with you, every search is in matter not only english! Robin_SnnS 00:13, 13 August 2006 (CET)

Robin - there is a reason why we search English only. This is the English Wikipedia. Other languages are irrelevant to this matter. WhisperToMe 01:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Do read over WP:UE. --TheFarix (Talk) 21:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I did - People use the Google test anyway, so I have to point out the error in some of the methods used in the Google tests (e.g. leaving out "English"). WhisperToMe 22:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Did you mistake my response as being towards you instead of Robin? I only indented it once, so I thought who I was responding to was clear. --TheFarix (Talk) 00:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Initially, but I changed it to reflect a comment about that. I figured you were talking to Robin because of the indenting, but I decided to throw in my two cents anyways. :) WhisperToMe 01:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the RFC message and I want to express my view making clear that I'm not a fan of the comic and I've never seen an episode. In my opinion, the English Wikipedia is for English speaking people by default. For the rest of the world there are other Wikipedias. For example, I'm from Spain and if in most of the Spanish speaking world a TV series would have been given a name I think the article should use that name even if in the rest of the world it were different.

If Case Opened is the tranlation used in most of the US and Canada, then it's the one used in most of the English speaking world so that term should be preferential. However, the article should explain clearly that other name exist for the TV series and for the characters. MJGR 12:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, in accordance of WP:NAME, the choice of name is a head count, not a map count. The problem centered here is how to do this "head count"... Samuel Curtis 16:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I re-state my position. WP:NAME says, Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists. Hence, the name perference among us editors, and other otakus (English definition) is of no relevance. The real point is to count the causal viewers of the series. So it is mainly a head count the causal viewers between:

• US, Canada, and possibly the UK; and
• other countries who happened to know some English.

So an English-language-only Google test may not be relevant, even it may not be discounted. It must be well-noted that the German, French, etc. names can easily deduced to Detective Conan. On the other hand, if is also difficult to estimate the amount the causal viewers of Aduly Swim and YTV who happened to have watched this show, or anime fans in general who first got in touch with the series. This is why this question is so difficult to be solved... --Samuel Curtis 09:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's see, Adult Swim only aired some 50 (or so) episodes, Funimation took over, I wasn't able to find any information on new airing dates, but what little I did find said that it was canceled. Detective Conan was the first, most recent, and most numerous title. (450 episodes, 10 movies, and 53 manga volumes.) That alone makes it the most relevant title. (Besides, many prefer the original version, some going as far as not watching/reading subtitled/translated versions.)

The latest discussion in WT:NC (Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions/Archive_9#Names_that_can_condone.2C_carry_or_propogate_misleading_connotations) has shown by "English speakers" in WP:NAME do mean the Anglosphere. (WT:NC#Names that can condone, carry or propogate misleading connotations). Unless the policy changes, I have to say Case Closed has to be used, esp when WP:NCON stated WP naming is descriptive not prescriptive.

But, since DC/CC movies, except one, has been adopted into English, keep the Detective Conan in their titles. --Samuel Curtis 06:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I've run a few google searches:

manga "Detective Conan": 720,000 hits

"Detective Conan" manga: 720,000 hits

anime "Detective Conan": 771,000 hits

"Detective Conan" anime: 807,000 hits

manga "Case Closed": 379,000 hits

"Case Closed" manga: 379,000 hits

anime "Case Closed": 637,000 hits

"Case Closed" anime: 631,000 hits

I believe that is shows under the anime and naming guidelines what name should be used.

And I have no idea why the results changed for some of them based on where a word was placed in the box. As I have said numerous times; The intarweb is weird! (Justyn 00:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC))

We already did a more accurate Google search - CC and DC are neck at neck. Remember that Continental European languages use Detective Conan, so that inflates the hits for DC. WhisperToMe 03:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

This was mostly to point out that the exact term can change the results. Look at the last one, the exact placement of the word "anime" changes the results by six-thousand. (Justyn 04:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC))

Yeah - that's funny about Google hits. WhisperToMe 04:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

It's my natural tendency to go for US-centric solutions, but I think that's inappropriate in this case. Case Closed is region-specific. It is the US title for a series that was created in Japan, and has a Japanese name that can either be translated or romanized, as appropriate. Regardless of what we in America call it, the series name is Meitantei Conan, because that's what the author named it. Thus, that would be the most appropriate name for the article, with redirects going to it. "Detective Conan" or "Great Detective Conan" would be less appropriate, but still better than Case Closed, which was a choice of the distributors in a certain region, not of the manga-ka who created it, or his publishers. Case closed can best be considered a nickname for the series... a regional decision that is at odds with the real name for the subject. Izuko 21:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

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I just came in from the rfc page. Looking at the google tests, one this is clear. There is no significant preference for which title is used by people on the Internet. To be honest, anything less than a 3:1 dominance isn't really significant, and those numbers are nowhere near that.

Regarding the "Conan" word, it's certainly a copyright issue for the publisher, but since wikipedia is simply recording the facts on the ground and not trying to sell a hero called Conan, we don't need to tread lightly in the way the publisher does. there's no copyright law based reason to avoid calling the article Detective Conan.

So, to recap:

• Detective Conan, favoured by original publisher
• Case Closed, favoured by U.S. based translator
• No popular consensus in general public for name choice

Given that, I'd go along with the self-identification criterion, and call the page Detective Conan. Rhialto 07:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I prefer Detective Conan, and original Japanese names. Case Closed is not the original title, where as Detective Conan is a reasonable translation of the original Japanese title. Also, I do not consider Case Closed to actually be the same as Detective Conan, for the simple reason that it is heavily edited. Being a childrens cartoon being shown on US television, it has to be. I would point to two other cases similar to this: Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura. In both articles original names are used, and in the CCS article the title is "CardCaptor Sakura", not "Cardcaptors" (the name of the US version).

Also, the dropping of "Conan" from the title was done for purely speculative legal reasons (to avoid potential lawsuits). Thus, it is reasonable to assume that if this had not been the case there would have been no reason to change the name.

On Wikipedia, chronological order usually takes precident. For example, the article on colour is spelt incorrectly because it's initial title was "color". It seems contradictory that US spelling should prevail there, purely due to it being the first one used, but in this instance the original title of both the article and the manga (i.e. Detective Conan) are not being used. Ditto for names.

The origin of the series is Japan. The original author's choices should be respected and preferred. Consider cases such as Frankenstein, where the name now often refers to the monster from the novel, but (rightly) Wikipedia defaults to the correct usage. In cases where there are two common names for a thing, such as with crisps/potato chips, the most popular option should prevail (in that example, there are more English speakers who use "potato chips" despite crisps being more common in European languages and International English thanks to usage by the US and Canada). However, in this instance it is not at all clear that Case Closed is actually more popular, and furthermore Case Closed is a name invented due to a potential legal issue by a third party after Detective Conan had become known to fans of the genera. It's a shame Wikipedia does not offer stats, but I would be willing to bet that Detective Conan is a more common search term.

Case Closed should have a section in the main article, but the focus should (and is) on the original. After all, much of what is written does not apply to Case Closed as it has not caught up with the original material yet. Mojo-chan 17:36, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Decision please

This debate seems to have stalled. Can we have a decision please. If required, I suggest we opt for mediation to get this resolved. I think compelling arguments have been made, but it needs someone independent to evaluate them and help us come to a decision.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mojo-chan (talk • contribs)

I would nominate this on WP:RM in 24 hours; I would be having an air trip soon. --Samuel Curtis^{Shinichian-Hirokian}-- _{TALK·CONTRIBS} 15:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)