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Alternate words for "film"

Hey all. When working on film pages I often need another word for "film" so I don't use the same word twice in quick succession. Sometimes I substitute "production" or "project" if appropriate. Is it acceptable to use the word "picture" as well, or is it too archaic? Wafflewombat (talk) 03:31, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Seems likely to be okay, but the most common synonym is probably "movie". TompaDompa (talk) 01:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Is "movie" okay to use? I don't see it used in more well-developed film articles. Wafflewombat (talk) 01:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

No, it's too informal. Just use "film". Don't ostentatiously use synonyms for common words. See Wikipedia:The problem with elegant variation. It generally makes your prose look like a 5th grade wrote it, which is worse than using the same word twice in two sentences. Or rewrite your sentences.

• Bad: "The film was released in 2002 by Paramount. The film received negative reviews, and the film's box office gross was equally poor."
• Even worse: "The picture was released in 2002 by Paramount. The production received negative reviews, and the film's box office gross was equally poor."
• Better: "Paramount released Wikipedia: The Film in 2002. It received negative reviews, and its box office gross was equally poor."

With practice, it becomes easy. I'm sure you're thinking of even better ways to write that sentence right now. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:49, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Too informal? Nonsense, I say—"movie" is used in plenty of formal contexts. It is something of an WP:ENGVAR issue, on the other hand. But yes, avoiding elegant variation is usually preferable. TompaDompa (talk) 02:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

"Movie" is informal and should be avoided. "Picture" is archaic and ambiguous. Use the correct word and use it every time.

If you find you're using the same word too many times and it's noticeable, it means there's a bigger problem with your syntax, not that you should start using alternative words. See WP:ELEVAR, as NinjaRobotPirate already mentioned. Popcornfud (talk) 02:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I mean, it depends. What effect are you going for? Here is an example. Sometimes, you want short sentences. Other times, longer ones. They give different rhythms. It may or may not be desirable to produce the effect one gets from stacking several shorter sentences one after the other just as it may or may not be desirable to produce the effect one gets from writing a single but rather lengthy sentence. It depends on the context. This also applies to other writing choices. There isn't a "one size fits all" approach to writing. "Never switch between synonyms" isn't better advice than "always switch between synonyms". TompaDompa (talk) 02:34, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

"Movie" isn't used on WP for the reason stated. If it's present in an article, any film editor will change it to "film". Most reputable film news, review, and industry sources use "film", even if they may also use "movie" in articles. I have never encountered an instance where I think I cannot use "film" more than once or alternate it with "it". Changing up the syntax helps with sentence flow. Sometimes that takes more than one copyedit, especially when you're still adding and arranging content. Lapadite (talk) 04:44, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Another alternative is to use the actual name of the film in place of "it" or "film". Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:03, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes of course. I limit repeated uses of the title within one paragraph as I think more than a couple repetitions can sound more clunky than "film" or "it". Wafflewombat, as for "production", it's not synonymous with "film" as the film is the finished product, though the term can be used for any stage of development; "production" should only be used when you're referring to the production itself, i.e the making of the film (the filming period and anything that occurs during or to the production). "Project" can be interchanged with "film" if it suits the context. For ex, when talking about awards won, it's not fitting to say "The project won three Academy Awards"; but it can be used when writing about, say, a producer, film crew, or cast decision, like: "x joined/financed/worked on the project". Lapadite (talk) 07:03, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Not using "movie" is one of those quirks of Wikipedia that is really at odds with how the English language is used outside it. Avoiding contractions is another. TompaDompa (talk) 11:34, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles aren't supposed to reflect how the English language is commonly used, WP:SLANG and MOS:CONTRACTIONS. Indagate (talk) 11:49, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I know, but it's not like all serious outlets avoid "movie" and contractions either. The top story on Time magazine's website at the moment uses a contraction in Biden appears to have pulled his family closer while attempting to prove that he's still the Democrats' best option., for instance. TompaDompa (talk) 12:01, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia aims to be a serious encyclopedia not a newspaper or magazine, which are written differently. Wikipedia has a huge English-as-a-second-langauge audience, you would not believe how helpful it can be to keep it simple and how much difference it can makes to readers who have little choice but to read English language Wikipedia. Clarity must be prioritized even if it might make your prose seem a little stilted and repetitive. -- 109.77.200.184 (talk) 14:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Certainly we should want the text to be clear to readers and editors who have English as a second language (which is one reason I think MOS:COMMONALITY is usually good to follow while MOS:TIES is sometimes counterproductive), not least because that's the majority of English-speakers. I don't think writing "cannot" instead of "can't" helps with that, though. TompaDompa (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

For what its worth, we have Category:Monster movies rather than "film" as maybe alliteration took over, the generally used term for the genre was "Monster movies" over "monster films". I generally agree to use the term film and I've yet to come across any decently written articles where it feels like I could make a drinking game out of how many times we see the word "film". Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:10, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Starship Troopers is up for a Featured Article nomination

Neutral notice Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

This is going to be archived soon due to a lack of comments if anyone has any interest. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 09:41, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Categorizing Amazon MGM Studios releases

Recently, Amazon MGM Studios has been pivoting towards producing and releasing their movies under the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Orion Pictures and American International Pictures labels (similar to how Sony Pictures and Amblin Partners operate), yet we are categorizing movies released with these labels as Amazon MGM Studios films, while the article also holds a subcategory of that category (for example, an MGM release having both the Amazon category and its MGM subcategory for its article). I came here to request we stop doing this and just stick to using subcategories as it means most movies from the studio will have two categories (three if its a theatrical release, because Warner currently theatrically distributes AMGMS titles overseas). It also seems like Amazon is going to be reviving the United Artists brand. It's not particularly clear how Amazon will handle it, but if the credits of a movie with the involvement of this new iteration doesn't explicitly credit AMGMS it shouldn't be categorized as one of their films Inpops (talk) 20:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Cryptozoo#Requested move 23 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Cryptozoo#Requested move 23 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:25, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Twisters (film) has an RfC

Twisters (film) has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 22:20, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Douglas Fairbanks in Robin Hood#Requested move 23 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Douglas Fairbanks in Robin Hood#Requested move 23 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 17:33, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

IMDb credits

General question: to what extent are producing/writing/directing credits on a person's IMDb reliable or accurate? Anyone here have any insight as to whether such credits on IMDb profiles are provided by professionals in the industry or random people, and whether they're verified by IMDb employees? Lapadite (talk) 23:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe WP:IMDB might help? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

My observation is that when an persons name is listed in the credits for a film or TV show, that project automatically gets added to the persons page as a credit for the show. I've done this to fix things when credits were wrong or fakes as sometimes happens. All the credits added to a project are added by unknown people who might be professionals with certain knowledge or random people reading the credits. This all has some unknown amount of checking by IMDB thus the guidance at WP:IMDB. Credits are generally accurate as there are plenty of people watching or correcting, but then again, that is the experience for most user generated content including Wikipedia. Geraldo Perez (talk) 00:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

So it's essentially the same as for other credits, awards, trivia, then. WP:IMDB is vague on this question, and I wondered what "certain content" specifically is verified by staff. I know we can submit corrections to IMDb, but I'm not sure whether anyone can link a person and a project's filmmaking credits or if that was solely done by IMDb staff or industry professionals (such as an actor or filmmaker's team). Geraldo Perez, if you encountered incorrect credits you had to fix, then I guess that answers the question of whether staff or industry professionals add and verify those specific credits. Even if the filmmaking credits can be accurate, they're not inherently reliable. Lapadite (talk) 00:31, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I found a couple of people who created a fake notable presence on IMDb (they tried this on Wiki too but our checking is better). Created an actor page, then added themselves to a bunch of projects. IMDb allows people to edit credits and it isn't immediately reflected so they do do some checking, but the fake credits and personas got added anyway. I found this when they tried to add themselves to Wiki articles and used IMDb as a source. Wikipedia:Citing IMDb has some examples of stuff that is accurate and obviously IMDb gets fed from the production teams for in progress and newly release films and TV shows. It is just that after that initial population of data they allow random users to edit it and add to it. Geraldo Perez (talk) 01:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Yikes. Well that fully answers this. Thank you, I appreciate it. Lapadite (talk) 01:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I seem to recall IMDb Pro has a slightly better shot of being reliable, but in the end, it's likely still just a starting point to see if someone is credited for something and to find a reliable source for them elsewhere. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. I would try to use better sources. If you absolutely get stuck with using a database, the WP:FILM community at large seems more comfortable with AFI Film Database and the BFI one, for more Anglo-based films. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

If you have access to the film itself, the credits are listed there and the film is the primary reliable source for what is in it including the credits. Generally if a film has been released to the public it can be used as a source and if the film is mentioned it is the cite. IMDb is usually correct at least to the point of if a person isn't in IMDb the person likely isn't in the film. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:26, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Notable career progression content in the lead

Posted this discussion at WP:ACTOR, but posting it here as well as this project talk tends to be more active.

Input is appreciated at Talk:Aubrey Plaza#Lead. There's a dispute pertaining to someone removing notable career content from the lead. Please provide input on whether such content that reliable sources consider significant in the actor/producer's career should be present in the lead. Please refer to the content-related comments in that discussion for further context, including the bullet point specification of the issues. Thanks. Lapadite (talk) 01:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Crystal Film Company

The draft I submitted for this early American film studio was rejected if anyone can help. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 13:53, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

[1][2] might have something useful, and there could be more at [3]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:42, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

American Pie

I'm doing a little work on American Pie (film) and was wondering if anyone else wanted to participate. I don't have the free time to go nuts on it but I'm trying to just bring it up to a solid GA at least and if you're a millennial then this was probably one of the defining comedies of your youth. Even if you jjust have useful sources as the production section is fairly anemic. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:37, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Enquête sur un scandale d'État (2021 film)

Would anyone be so kind as to take a look at my draft and say what should be added before submission. Draft is here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Enqu%C3%AAte_sur_un_scandale_d%27%C3%89tat_(2021_film) Red Fiona (talk) 23:10, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Pardon my bluntness...I think I was hoping other editors might comment sooner...but my first thought when I look at this is that whoever wrote it hasn't looked at existing film articles (even non-GA or FAs) and tried to emulate their style, and possibly also hasn't looked at MOS:FILM. Right off the bat, the article doesn't say when the film was released, nor is the title of the article consistent with our naming conventions. DonIago (talk) 13:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

No need to ask for pardon when I asked for a look over :). I promise I did look at MOS Film but will make the suggested change. Red Fiona (talk) 16:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The Frighteners

There's a discussion regarding the plot section of The Frighteners, which can be found at Talk:The Frighteners#Plot section is wonkily written, hard to follow in places, and is both excessively detailed while also missing important plot-beats.. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 08:28, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Category:Film and television backlog

If anyone is looking for something to do, their are many pages listed in the various categories over at Category:Film and television backlog. Gonnym (talk) 13:37, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Dark Phoenix (film)#Requested move 12 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dark Phoenix (film)#Requested move 12 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 10:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Franchises and film series

I've recently proposed an article for deletion and it was removed as being "obviously notable". In this case it was Rosemary's Baby (franchise). While I do recognize that there are numerous adaptations of the book into theatrical films, television films, etc. but there is no commentary on it as a franchise as a whole.

There is definitely content discussion, the novel, the films, and television series, etc. But even with the films, there is not content discussing them as a whole. Searching it as a discussion on a series yields little to no results for an overarching series. Compare this with the article on Dracula (Universal film series), which goes into specifics of the films as a series and tries to have commentary on a series as a whole, and less about individual films copied and pasted from their respective articles.

In short, these articles fail WP:SIGCOV, specifically that it addresses the topic directly. And that the articles tend to fail WP:INDISCRIMINATE as they just repeat production and individual reception of individual works, but not the idea of a franchise as a whole. It also fails WP:UNDUE as applying information such as comparing their gross, cast, characters with no real world context to why its important we know these things. Sure, we can find sources of what the budget of the first Rosemary's Baby was to Apartment 7A, but we have no MOS related discussion for film series specifically so just comparing these on our own comes off as trivial.

Going to tag @Mushy Yank: and @DisneyMetalhead: on this as they both were contributors to article in question and would like them to give their input on how they feel this article and articles like it currently follow the above standards. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello, For the record. I did remove the PROD tag but did not say it was "obviously notable"". What I said was "Clearly unsuitable for PROD". I have no opinion on whether you can call it a franchise or series. Feel free to rename it . I don't think I ever edited the page apart from DePRoDing it but the page seems notable as a Wikipedia:SETINDEX.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:05, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

No worries. Just to clarify, my issue is not what it is labeled. My issue is that there is no information on the topic as a series/franchise/anything-similar term and that as there is none, we apply information with no weight of what it is, what the focus should be, and that it even exists as there is no sources that is miniscule content discussing it as a series or as a whole at all. As for SETINDEX, they give examples like Dodge Charger, which I'd assume has more articles covering it as a more general wide-meaning term. In this case, we do not. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

...you're kidding me. @Andrzejbanas it seems that you frequently get hung up on this idea. The Rosemary's Baby franchise is indeed a franchise, and it is indeed notable. I don't understand why you move to deleting content/pages/details on VARIOUS pages (not just this one). DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Side-note it is called a "franchise" because there is a TV miniseries as well.... DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:29, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Because I've stated the rules it's breaking. I didn't arhue about terminology, but there is no wide spread coverage of it as that. Which makes it fail the rules i stated above. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:49, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@DisneyMetalhead, which three sources provide SIGCOV of the franchise/body of work (as a whole) in RS? Valereee (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@Valereee: thank you for the question! There a Sportskeeda and Cinema Express which explicitly call it a franchise; while Vulture talks about the juxtaposition of the Rosemary's Baby IP to "saturated by commercially safe franchises". Meanwhile, 1997 Entertainment Weekly and 2019 ScreenRant articles discusses how the sequel book (and its TV movie adaptation) shies in comparison to the original movie and the novel. Further detailed reading at The New York Post discusses the miniseries expansion of the original releases (and where it failed). The most detailed example of one article talking at length about the entire franchise that I had sourced on the article in question however, is LitReactor where the journalist compares the book to the movie to the miniseries. I will use these same sources to further reference that this is a franchise. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 14:45, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

But the argument isn't really whether someone is calling it a franchise but whether the franchise itself is notable? I'm not familiar enough with film to know whether multiple notable entries a franchise make the franchise notable. For authors, multiple notable books generally is considered to prove an author is notable. I'm willing to be pointed at a WikiProject Film PAG that indicates multiple notable entries in a franchise confer notability on the franchise, but if that's not the guideline here, we need three instances of SIGCOV of the franchise in RS in order to support a claim to notability. LitReactor looks like a blog? Valereee (talk) 14:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, @DisneyMetalhead, forgot to ping. I generally try to ping when the other person pings me, but if you've subscribed to this I'll try to remember not to. I don't care whether you ping me or not, I've subscribed. Valereee (talk) 14:53, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

I hope it's okay to chime in here, I'm just about to step out, but yes, this is kind of what I've been finding. Rosemary's Baby the main film is a major motion picture and novel, and of course spawned sequels and other offshoots. I can find reviews making one off comparisons to the original novel or series, but I struggled finding a lot of commentary on it as a franchise as a whole. This basically my point with the topics surrounding film series, there is plenty of information about some films in a series individually, but sometimes finding discussion about is a whole grows complicated. Like for Sartana, I wouldn't have attempted anything there if I had did not have this source which is pages about it as a series/franchise/cycle/whatever. I'm glad what I've been trying to address before is finally coming forward. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The problem tends to be that your explanations of your concerns are often extremely wordy. You can see how Indagate and I both got to the heart of the issue -- notability of the franchise as a whole -- in a sentence. It takes longer to write shorter, but it's a worthwhile skill to develop. Even this post you literally could have replaced with I struggled finding a lot of commentary on it as a franchise as a whole. Valereee (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The franchise (starting with the novel and the first movie) has been credited with influencing modern horror and one of the greatest horror movies ever made (example: here). That same source details how the sequel didn't live up to the book source nor the original movie. The LitReactor source states that it is a "columns, reviews, and resource for authors". The author of that particular article is playwright and author himself. The formatting of the page is odd, but the author and its topic is notable. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 15:08, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the assistance @Valereee: and @Indagate: -- WP:SIGCOV details the different general notability bullets. I know when initially beginning on the topic I followed "presumed" notability (because there are various media releases), but I had also been under the impression that the variety of reliable sources unrelated to the topic provided significant coverage. I will keep looking for more that discuss the whole franchise. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 15:18, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@Andrzejbanas: you choose to ignore sources that disagree with your opinion is the issue with your mentality here (see the sources I shared below), m8! "wide spread coverage" is not what determines reliability and notability. --DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

This seems to be a wider issue based on list of articles created on DisneyMetalhead's user page, many franchise articles of barely notables films and no references discussing the franchise as a whole in them. Indagate (talk) 11:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

These specific examples are indeed articles I have been involved with -- but which articles are you declaratively stating are "barely notable films"? And what makes them "barely notable"? Furthermore, which ones don't have the references you are referring to?

This is an ongoing/recurring situation that User:Andrzejbanas has been involved with. See the various discussions at Talk:Universal Monsters for more.

DisneyMetalhead (talk) 12:51, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Please stick to 1 indent per reply so less confusing to read. A random example is Not Quite Human (film series), no value added to the individual film articles, reception section has basically nothing in it, no significant coverage in references provided of the series as a whole, doesn't seem necessary as an article. Indagate (talk) 12:54, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out @Indagate:. I am going through each article to find additional sources that discuss the film series/franchise as a whole, and adding them to each page. I have added several at that identified page. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 14:26, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for trying, but looking at sources added to that example, LA Times is reliable but not significant, "What's on Disney Plus" looks not really reliable and routine mention of the series, Mutant Reviewers looks not reliable and only covers first film. We need significant coverage of the franchise for it to be notable enough for a WP article, that example does not have it. Indagate (talk) 14:53, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

I will keep looking for more sources. The sources I provided combined seem to cover the film series, but my question is for films/franchises/etc which are older, does the variety of sources on the page not detail the topic as whole sufficiently to warrant that is a significant series? DisneyMetalhead (talk) 15:14, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a tumbling block here because, for me at least, this one seems to be providing some overview, but not really on the topic as a whole. unless I'm missing something here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The Guardian details the book, movie, and miniseries, in addition to the "Michael Bay reboot" which ended up becoming Apartment 7A. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 15:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• Very strongly OPPOSE. There are a number or reliable sources that refer to the IP as a franchise. Examples include, but aren't limited to: [Sporskeeda, Cinema Express, Vulture. I will take this to the associated talkpage.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

  Hi @DisneyMetalhead , I've seen these sources. This also, in fact all I found. The issue with this is this is all I've found too and you do not apply them within the article or had not at the time. With this, per [[WP:WEIGHT], you go I to excessive details about financial comparisons, characters, etc. that address these fila individually, but not as a franchise/series/whatever. This is what my issue is as we can't take these sources and expand them based on...well, nothing I can find. In fact, that Vulture article has nothing about it as a franchise. The Cinema Express doesn't have anything critical or historical to say about the franchise other than its a franchise and is an article about a poster being released. So sure, those are the three I found, and they are all focused on different topics without WP:SIGCOV of the topic considered. Please reconsider as all the information currently is just a regurgitation of information about individual elements, and almost nothing as this perceived series. Andrzejbanas (talk) 11:09, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

  The point here, as stated on various other articles is that you don't get to decide which sources you like/don't like -- based off of them having a different opinion than you. As explained to you before, a more constructive approach would be to request more/better sources. This is exactly the discussion that occurred at Talk:Universal Monsters for years. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 12:54, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not saying whether I like it or not, I'm asking if they follow the current rules. if you are taking the time to reply, please address how you feel the content applies to the rules over perceived intentions, and assume good faith. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

  I have referred to other articles and their topics in my response to Valereee above. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Renaming of Ivan the Terrible (1945 film)?

This article is about one film that was separated into two parts; these two parts are, as far as I'm aware, always covered together and I don't think this film would qualify as a film series. The first part was released in 1945, while the second part was completed in 1946 and released in 1958; it may be misleading to viewers to have both films be covered under the release date of the first film. Since Ivan the Terrible (1917 film) exists, I cannot rename the film to just "Ivan the Terrible (film)"; I was wondering if Ivan the Terrible (Eisenstein) would be an acceptable rename, or if this would conflict with naming guidelines. Jaguarnik (talk) 23:18, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

How about something like "(two-part film)"? Seems like an exceptional enough case that NCFILM need not strictly apply. Nardog (talk) 02:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I wouldn’t change the title, which is pretty standard and clear. Yes, it has two parts but it’s generally considered to be one film. Certainly not a film series. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:48, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Are explanatory footnotes clarifying tie-ins with other films appropriate?

There is currently a content dispute / slow-moving edit-war on Alien: Romulus regarding three explanatory footnotes in the plot summary clarifying plot points in the film that tie directly to past Alien films (spoiler alert). The disputed notes can be found here: [4]. The sole editor expressly opposed to the changes has reverted several users, claiming that the notes violate MOS:FILMPLOT. You are invited to weigh in at Talk:Alien: Romulus#Plot notes. Thanks. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment: As can be seen from the talk page, no one else supports the addition of notes yet. Reverted for WP:STATUSQUO, including IP sock edits. ภץאคгöร 17:09, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

  That's accurate, but it is also true that no one else opposes the addition of notes, and also true that more than one editor has attempted to implement the edits (indicating implicit consensus). InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:37, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

  Only two editors attempted to implement (the IP sock and InfiniteNexus). Additionally I think sentences like "I honestly do not think the footnotes are necessary." seem to oppose. ภץאคгöร 18:17, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

  That comment ended with But I don't see it causing harm by being added. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:05, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

  Like that user, I don't see any "harm", anything harmful. This does not change the fact that the user thinks the notes are unnecessary. ภץאคгöร 11:04, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I haven't watched the film yet so can't comment on the actual issue, but if the scene has a very clear connection, then a regular note is fine. If it requires some OR, then find a source online that makes that connection for you and add it to the note. Gonnym (talk) 17:02, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

This is already done in another section, some sources reporting similarities and connections to previous installments for minor points. The user wants to add same info to the plot section of this standalone installment. ภץאคгöร 17:14, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Sources directly corroborating the footnotes are included in the notes. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:37, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Generally speaking, a note should only be added to help explain the plot with information that is not from the plot itself. If the plot summary can be understood without the note then the connection should probably be mentioned in the production section (or not at all if it is just trivia). - adamstom97 (talk) 18:29, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Going to have to agree that a well written plot summary should not have to clarify things with notes or trivial mentions of evens in other films unless just to say "Following the events of Star Wars, The Empire Starts Back begins on the planet hoth..." etc. That said, there are special cases where i've broken this rule of thumb for myself like with Tetsuo: The Iron Man. If the narrative is very not obvious or abstract, it might be good to share that to readers. In the case of these films, I don't think we need them. Material like this is probably better explained in a more overarching Alien franchise article on how the films do or do not connect with each other, as its cool to spot these references, it's not essential to understanding the plot. It may enhance it, but plots are about getting the basic beats of what happens to the user, not content like this. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:51, 24 August 2024 (UTC)