Talk:The Master (Fallout)

He isn't that hard to kill

On my very first game through I killed the Master in two turns. I just stood behind the pillar and he couldn't attack me. I walked in front of him when it was my turn and attacked. I got a 400 crit with a minigun (my big guns skill was only 70-some %) and then did about 100 more damage with my next attack and he was dead. He only spawned one super mutant and Dogmeat even lived through the encounter. I was actually fairly disappointed. I'm not here to brag, but saying the Master is a difficult fight is untrue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.111.208.82 (talk) 00:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Untitled

I would like to point out that Super-mutants are actually capable of reproducing several years after the mutation, however The Master still can be convinced about his failure. This information can be found out in Fallout 2 if you go to New Reno's Cat's Paw brothel with Marcus in your party and ask some action for him. After that, you can ask him about the sterility of mutants and he explains.

Actually, Chris Avellone, who designed New Reno, clearly stated afterwards that Marcus was only joking. Whether or not it was the initial intent or a retcon is unknown.Ausir 03:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Redirect

I dont know how to make a redirect, but the Stealthboy, which is currently highlighted in red in this article is described in brief in the PIPBoy 2000 article, so mabye a redirect is in order Jay-Me 22:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified (January 2018)

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Source review following un-redirect.

Based on [1] reference order:

1. 1up feature on Fallout - Single mention of Master as antagonist. Trivial mention, no coverage.
2. Gameinformer - Single mention as an aspect of movie ideas. Trivial mention, no coverage.
3. Escapist Mag - Single mention as part of a graphic, no discussion of the character.
4. Kotaku - Single sentence describing his accent and appearance. No indepth coverage.
5. Guinness - Unable to personally verify this offline source, but described as "quick fire facts and trivia"
6. UGO - Best source so far, 2 paragraphs dedicated to character as part of a top 10. Article's context though is "Our favorite Fallout characters" so its not really independent of the series (i.e. no broader context)
7. Denofgeek - Not convinced DOG is a reliable source, but there's no indepth coverage here beyond "He's the last boss and he's tougher, or you could join him."
8. Gamespot - Best source now, multiple paragraphs as part of a broader top 10 list of villians.
9. Gamespot 2 - another list of villians, same source
10. Gamesradar - Article states was #75 on this list, but the archive does not contain this and the current version of this list at Gamesradar only keeps 30 entries and Master is not there.
11. Kotaku 2 - 2 sentences, nothing in depth.
12. PC Gamer - No indepth discussion of the character, a couple paragraphs discussing the gameplay options of fighting him
13. IGN - Two paragraphs discussing plot elements within the context of "best fallout moments"
14. GamesRadar - Not about Master but about his location, again a list in the context of "memorable Fallout locations". Not really coverage of the character at all.

Based on this analyze I'm going to restore the redirect. If contended we can check with an AFD to see if it should really exist. Almost everything said here, if important, can be at Fallout's article. Master never appears in any other games. -- ferret (talk) 18:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Removal of the redirect was accompanied by a complaint that nothing was ever merged. I have just merged the things that seemed relevant. -- ferret (talk) 19:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Master (Fallout)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 14:39, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

• I'll take this one on and try to get to it within a week. Feel free to ping me if my timing slips. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:39, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

• We'll work through this section by section, and then finish up the lead at the end.
• Broad question: if the master is a mix of a man, a woman, and a computer, is it appropriate to describe him as a he?

• That was just a concept used during the development of the game. In the game, the Master is most certainly male, as he was formally a human named Richard Grey. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• I'd encourage you to switch the order of the appearances and concept sections. That's how it's typically done (see Prince (Prince of Persia)), and it's usually best to start with what the thing is before talking about how it was made.

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Concept and design
  • The first sentence is a run-on phrase, and might be better broken into shorter sentences, for readability and clarity.

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "This led to conceptualizing" -> "This led the team to conceptualize" (avoid passive voice)

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "Cain found modeling and animating the Master to be fun. He also found writing dialogue to be fun because of the Master's switching between three voices: a male voice, a female voice, and a computer voice." -> "Cain enjoyed modelling, animating, and writing the Master's dialog, particularly because the Master switched between three voices: male, female, and electronic."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "through him being a villain with well-intentioned motivations and viewed himself as a hero" -> "because he was a villain who viewed himself as a well-intentioned hero."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "Multiple solutions were given in the game" --> "The game was designed with multiple solutions"

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "Cain said that the development team knew they "were on the right track" when they developed clear solutions for defeating the Master. " -> I'm not sure what this adds that the previous sentence didn't cover

• Done: Removed the statement. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • The last sentence of the section would probably be clearer and more readable without the quote.

• Done: Paraphrased the quote. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Appearances
  • "Fallout takes place in 2161 after a global nuclear war, which destroyed much of civilization in 2077" -> "Fallout takes place in 2161, after a global nuclear war destroyed most of human civilization a century earlier."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • Full stop, and make the part about the Master and the information its own sentence.

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "The Master was originally a human named Richard Moreau who was exiled from Vault City, which was formed by residents of Vault 8, in 2092 on suspicion of murder. " -> "The Master was originally a human named Richard Moreau who was exiled from Vault City as a murder suspect."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "This leads them to Mariposa Military Base" -> be careful about mixing verb tense. If you're trying to be consistent, this "led" them to the base.

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "contemplated the destruction of war" -> not sure this part adds anything, and the last part of the sentence is really the important part.

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "there are multiple options given to the player in relation to the Master, depending on their skill set" -> "they can confront the Master in with a few different skills and approaches."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "The player can engage in combat, during which, the Master summons Super Mutants and uses dual miniguns that can wipe out any player that is not wearing the highest armor." -> This is an excessive amount of gameplay detail, and I think it's fine to say the player fights the Master and his Super Mutant allies.

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "realizing the ramifications of his plan will result in the Master committing suicide" -> "a revelation that causes the Master to commit suicide."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "Finally," -> this is a confusing word here, only because it seems like you're talking about timing.

• Done: Replaced with a more relevant dependent clause.

• • "The player has the option" -> "The player also has the option"

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "conversation with the Master will be replaced with an exchange in which the Vault Dweller calls the Master ugly" -> "the Vault Dweller will only be able to call the Master ugly,"

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "The Master appears" -> "The Master makes another appearance"

• Not Done: "The Master appears" is more concise. Why would I need the extra words. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Reception
  • The second sentence runs on and isn't very readable, and would probably be best if you broke it into smaller sentences. There is also enough good reception here to highlight why they are considered a great villain, and not just rankings.

• Partially Done: I will look into the sources to add reception once I have more time on my hands. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Done: Finally rewrote the section to focus more on opinions than rankings. Lazman321 (talk) 16:47, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "Khee Hooh Chan of USGamer considered the Master as iconic as the in-game device, the Pip-Boy" -> this doesn't have much context for anyone who hasn't played the game

• Done: Removed. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "Alan Bradley of GamesRadar+ thought the encounter with the Master combined with the contradictory nature of the Cathedral made the Cathedral "one of the most striking storytelling devices of its era" -> this feels like it could be phrased in a more simple and clear way

• What would you suggest? Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • "The Master has been lauded for his multiple ways of being defeated," -> "The Master encounter has been lauded for its multiple solutions" (the ways of being defeated don't really belong to the Master)

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• • The last two sentences feel like they would be more appropriate as part of the first paragraph, explaining why the character was remembered so well. (The rest of the paragraph focuses more on the encounter and game design.)

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Let's leave it there for now. With some work, I believe this can reach good article status. Shooterwalker (talk) 04:42, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

• There is one thing you have mentioned that I haven't addressed in full yet. I will address it further once I have more time on my hands. Thanks. Lazman321 (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• @Shooterwalker: I have now addressed all your concerns. Lazman321 (talk) 16:47, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your patience. Going to work through the lead now and give this all a second pass.

• Lead

• "Once a human male who was mutated by a mutagen called the Forced Evolutionary Virus (F.E.V.) into an amorphous creature, the Master expanded himself by absorbing other victims." -> "Born Richard Moreau, he was transformed into an amorphous creature by a mutagenic virus, and later absorbed the genetic material of other victims."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The Master's experimentation of the F.E.V. on human subjects led to the creation of the Super Mutants. Deeming humanity inept and Super Mutants to be superior, the Master seeks to transform every human in the wasteland into Super Mutants." -> "He created a race of super mutants after experimenting with the virus, and decided to transform humanity into these mutants to correct for their weakness."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The Master was conceptualized by Fallout's development team as the result of a man, a woman, and a computer terminal being dropped into a virus vat by mutants and morphing together" -> "The Fallout development team created the character concept as a synthesis of a man, a woman, and a computer terminal mutated together."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The character was made morally ambiguous; characterized as a villain with well-intentioned motivations." -> "The character was designed to be morally ambiguous, by creating a villain who saw himself as a hero."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The Master has been praised as among the best villainous characters in video games, especially for his multiple ways of being defeated and his sympathetic nature." -> "The Master has included on several rankings of best video game antagonists, due to his sympathetic nature, and his robust reactions to the player's input."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• Body

• I don't think the footnote is enough to make the identity of the Vault Dweller clear, or make the sentence more readable. I see two valid approaches: write a short sentence introducing the Vault Dweller as the player character, or remove references to the Vault Dweller entirely. (You can easily understand who the Master is without going into detail about the player/Vault Dweller.)

• Done: replaced instances of "Vault Dweller" with "player" or "player character". Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Grey eventually collaborated with trader Harold to lead an expedition into the wasteland to find the source of frequent mutant attacks on Harold's caravans in 2102." -> "Grey met a trader named Harold in 2102, and they form a joint expedition to discover the source of the mutant attacks on Harold's caravans."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "This led them to Mariposa Military Base, where the expedition group is overwhelmed by mutant forces, and" -> do a full stop here

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "According to producer Tim Cain: during the development of Fallout, there was discussion among the development team of mutants dipping people into virus vats to turn them into other mutants" -> "According to producer Tim Cain, the Fallout development team conceived of a faction of mutants who grew their ranks by dipping people into virus vats."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Cain said that after the audio director understood Cain's instruction of when to switch the Master's voice, the development team was glad that they made the Master the antagonist." -> "The development team became confident in their vision after the audio director reacted to the voice-switching concept, and every department believed the Master would be a great antagonist." (switching the order makes this clearer, and flow better as the last sentence.)

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The Master received" -> "The Master has received"

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Alan Bradley of GamesRadar+ thought the encounter with the Master combined with the contradictory nature of the Cathedral made the Cathedral 'one of the most striking storytelling devices of its era'." -> "Alan Bradley of GamesRadar+ thought the encounter with the Master made the game's final area one the 'one of the most striking storytelling devices of its era'."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• I'd consider moving the Bradley statement until later (end of pargagraph?), and leading with a statement that focuses more directly on the Master.

• Done: Moved to end of paragraph. Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "and stated 'Every...'" -> ", stating that '[e]very...'"

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Ron Whitaker of The Escapist, ranking the Master as among the best video game bosses, said that the Master being "not entirely evil" made him memorable." -> "Ron Whitaker of The Escapist ranked the Master among the best video game boss battles, explaining that the character is memorable because he is 'not entirely evil'."

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "UGO and Kotaku found the ability to convince the Master that he is wrong to be fun and unforgettable respectively" -> "Multiple journalists especially praised the option to convince the Master that he is wrong, with Kotaku describing it as "unforgettable", and UGO describing it as "fun"." (clearer)

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• "In relation to his confrontation," -> "Praising the final confrontation,"

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

That should get us all the way there, if not close. Thanks for your patience. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:35, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: I have addressed all your request. Lazman321 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

By the way, could you also do a general source reliability and formatting check for the FAC of the article for Fallout (video game) after this review, please? Lazman321 (talk) 04:27, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Made one or two minor fixes, and was happy to give this article a pass. Thanks for your hard work and congrats on the GA. (I'll add the main game to my watchlist and see if I can work on that in the next week.) Shooterwalker (talk) 13:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thanks for the article!.

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 10:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)