Talk:Lord Byron/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Redirect discussion

I thought it courteous to alert editors of this article of a very relevant redirect discussion: Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2009 November 27#Lord Byron. Powers ^T 16:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Byron's yacht

Please some sentences for Bolivar the yacht of Lord Byron — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.36.146.162 (talk) 04:17, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Byron's impact

Byron influenced many romantics and continental philosophers and writers. The best example is Nietzsche. Byron certainly influenced Nietzsche and yet it's not indicated. For Proof see Russell's History of Western Philosophy,Byron. --Arash Eb (talk) 03:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Byron and Philosophy

Links to Romanticism are mentioned, but not Philosophy. Just as Goethe strongly influenced German Idealism, Byron was a tremendous influence on Irrationalism on the Continent, esp. Nietzsche. RS - Bertrand Russell, Chapter XXIII, History of Western Philosophy.

Personal Life and POV matterial

It seems that there is a problem with the article about his sexual life. One web article from The Independent site http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/on-the-trail-of-the-real-lord-byron-603280.html is used as a source in order to support that Lord Byron pursued young boys. As it seems the article at a point reviews a book of Fiona MacCarthy (Byron Life and Legend).Has actually anyone have read the book? Is this an established view among the historians or it is only a view of Fiona MacCarthy?
Also no were the article suggests that the archive of John Murray, Byron's original publishers is now open to study? Indeed Murray has probably controlled information but no were it seems that MacCarthy had actually access in Murray archive (unless she says it in her book but without passages from her book we can not really tell). I have moved the part about Murray, his archive and Fiona MacCarthy views at the end of the paragraph. If anyone has read her book, please make sure to add properly cited material.

I have also removed some materiel which seem to be completely original research and even POV. Almost all the material I removed is not properly cited, is based either in out of context part of letters or from completely irrelevant letters.( some editor added that "Byron's travels in the Ottoman Empire confirmed his attachment to things Turkish" based entirely in a passage from a letter of his his estranged wife!!) It is incredible that according to the editor who added those views Byron became hero of Greece because of a twist of fate!
If however any editor manages to find and secondary sources from proper historians please feel free to add any material back.
Seleukosa (talk) 11:16, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me but why is there a reference to "adventures on moped" in the intro? Surely moped post-date the life of Byron. Is someone playing silly-buggers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.140.102 (talk) 13:32, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

In the intro there is also a comment about "numerous affairs with both sexes", which cites a NY Times article. To the best of my knowledge, there is no direct historical evidence that Byron was involved in affairs with men (or boys). This is plausible supposition, derived from anecdotal evidence, but it is supposition and not a fact. The NY Times article is not a piece of original research. It appears to be quite popular today to assign Byron to the ranks of bisexual/homosexual men. To be neutral POV, however, statements such as these need either support from historical documents, or some caveat words like "suspected", "supposed", "claimed" etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.116.122.242 (talk) 10:21, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Did Byron serve as a regional leader of the Carbonari?

This claim has three problems. First, it appears only in the lead and not in the article itself (esp. 5.3 where it should appear, if anywhere). Second, it has no citation. Third, John Galt directly contradicts it - "I did not, however, take part in their intrigues, nor join in their political coteries; but I had a magazine of one hundred stand of arms in the house, when everything was ripe for revolt". see Life of Lord Byron, http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/jgalt/bl-jgalt-byron-35.htm. This seems to indicate a rather minor, supporting, role in the organisation, not that of a leader of any sort. Added "citation needed". Suggest deleting or substantially editing this claim. Yabti (talk) 17:07, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Early Life

I think this pic of Byron in his late teens might go good in the early life section/page. I'll see about adding it if no one objects. I'd like to add the cropped one with a caption. I put the uncropped image here so people can be sure it's really Byron. This note is on both discussion pages.-- I Never Cry 10:24, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Let us once again try to rename this article

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Rough consensus is that Lord Byron is the common name as well as the primary topic. Regards, Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

---

George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron → Lord Byron — The last discussion was, admittedly, rather contentious, but I'm hoping we can avoid such unpleasantries this time.

In support of the move, I offer the following:

1. Lord Byron already redirects to this article, firmly establishing that it is the primary topic for that title.
2. WP:COMMONNAME suggests we use the most common form of the subject's name. In this case, it is clearly "Lord Byron"; that is what his author line reads on most printings of his works, how most of his biographies are titled, and certainly how the majority of the public knows him.
3. WP:NCROY is not absolute and makes exceptions for cases in which a member of the nobility or royalty is known by something other than his or her full name and title. This is an obvious candidate for such an exception.

-- Powers ^T 18:35, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

• Support Our common name policy clearly supports Lord Byron as the title of this article. And, as the move proposer states, it is already clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --RegentsPark (talk) 21:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• Support: "Lord Byron" is clearly the common name for this man. Ucucha 14:18, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
• Support, by both WP:COMMONNAME and WP:COMMONSENSE. older ≠ wiser 16:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment I don't want to throw a spanner in the works, especially as the proposal is a vast improvement, but I would have thought the common name was simply Byron which, coincidentally, is also a redirect to George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron. Skinsmoke (talk) 06:32, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Perhaps true, but only in the same sense that "Obama" is the common name for the current U.S. President. I think -- although I'm amenable to evidence otherwise -- that most references that use just "Byron" would not do so on first usage but only on subsequent usage after introducing the subject. Powers ^T 11:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
    • Not here in the United Kingdom. It is customary to refer to Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Byron, Shelley, Coleridge and Keats. Here's an example from the The Independent, another from the Peak District National Park Authority and, from across the pond, one from USA Today
• Support Per older ≠ wiser. GcSwRhIc (talk) 10:50, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
• Strongly Oppose, naming policy should be as consistent as possible. Note that no encyclopedia or comparable reference work lists him as Lord Byron. This really would open up a can of worms. If Lord Byron, why not Lord Palmerston or Lord Melbourne or Lord Kelvin? Not a single peer is best known in the form George Johnson, 6th Earl of Earlerson. What about Byron makes him a worthwhile exception to the naming convention used for every other peer? john k (talk) 03:36, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Ummm, that if you asked any educated person who "Lord Byron" was he would be able to identify the subject of this article readily and without ambiguity. it doesn't bear equivocating that with figures less able to stake a solid claim to being the primary subject of their short titles. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
• Support for all the usual and obvious reasons - and in reply to John K, I'd be very happy to see Palmerston, Melbourne et al. follow suit (and we already have Tennyson at his common name). Consistency shouldn't be used as an excuse to use unrecognizable names.--Kotniski (talk) 09:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

  Unfortunate on Tennyson. If you don't like Alfred Tennyson, 1st Baron Tennyson he should just be at Alfred Tennyson, his name for the vast majority of his life, and which is perfectly consistent with wikipedia naming convention. At any rate, the names are not unrecognizable, they are the standard way every reference work besides Wikipedia refers to these people. At any rate, the model of Alfred, Lord Tennyson suggests George Gordon, Lord Byron, which I would not oppose so strongly. john k (talk) 14:57, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

That would certainly be preferable to the current title, but still it doesn't seem to be a commonly used form, compared with plain "Lord Byron" as proposed. (Unlike "Alfred Lord Tennyson", which for whatever reason is commonly used.)--Kotniski (talk) 15:14, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose The new name is confusing, failing to note that there have gbeen several Lord Byrons. "Every reference work besides Wikipedia" often doesn't has to disambiguate between articles. Dimadick (talk) 17:16, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Lord Byron redirects here, so changing the title will be no more confusing. Powers ^T 21:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Most reference works other than wikipedia actually use some variant of the current title, not Lord Byron. john k (talk) 21:40, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
  • The "several Lord Byrons" argument is irrelevant - there have been several Michael Jacksons and Barack Obamas, but that doesn't stop us applying the title to the most prominent holder of the name.--Kotniski (talk) 07:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
• Long, long, long overdue. The present guidelines on the naming of English peers enforce a foolish consistency indeed, when such obscurities as the current title of this article neglect that the subject is far and away the most obvious owner of the title "Lord Byron" in any cultural sense. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose for all the usual reasons per john k above; I don't see why Byron is an exceptional case any more than others. Timrollpickering (talk) 10:59, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

So why not move Byron and the others? (I mean those of the others who - like Byron - are clear primary topics.)--Kotniski (talk) 11:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Depends on what "others" you mean. Do you mean "other nobles who are better known by "Lord so-and-so"? Or "all other nobles"? If the former, then you can look to Alfred, Lord Tennyson for precedent and rest assured that others may be moved in the future. If the latter, the reason is because Lord Byron is very widely known by that form of his name, and not as widely known as "George Gordon Byron". Powers ^T 11:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Yes! I approve!--Lairor (talk) 04:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Birthplace

His birthplace is problematic. Mayne *states* it, citing a now non-existent source. My opinion is that we cannot rely upon that. Dallas however states a different birthplace, and this from his own recollections. I have expounded the full citations with lazylinks in the Early Life article. It would appear to me much more likely that Dallas is here correct and Mayne is wrong. Wjhonson (talk) 16:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Credibility

Jeffrey D Hoeper exists on Wikipedia, solely, in this article, and yet is cited numerous times. I am suspicious that adequate credibility can be established for this author to speak as an authority on Byron. I am tempted to expunge all references to this paper as non-notable.Wjhonson (talk) 18:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Bisexuality

Why there isn't much about this in the main article? All it says is that one of the reasons he left Britain for was to search for homosexuality experiences. I would like to know more about that and I am sure many people would as well. Especially as there are not that many historical figures officially known as homosexuals/bisexuals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.18.138 (talk) 21:13, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

In the French WP we talk about his bisexuality and his many boyfriends... And you are right, it's important to talk about that. Best regards.--Axagore (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The lack of information on this aspect of Byron's life is strange indeed. It was a major aspect of his life and his influence. It is a great oversight. Jamila iSchool (talk) 15:05, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I am not a seasoned editor not have I unfortunately at the moment the time to dig on the subject. Yet I leave here a link to a site with a fairly extensive bibliographic list on the subject for anyone interested and editing the article: <a href="http://paganpressbooks.com/jpl/COCHRAN.HTM rel="nofollow">Link text</a> Learningnave (talk) 09:32, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I would urge some restraint on the subject of Byron's sexuality - I don't think we have any concretely cited sources on the subject listed here. We have a few sporadic paper sources that would seem to disagree with each other - by one account (Jackson 2010), who points out that all of this is inherently speculative, but the WP article seems to want to insist on Byron's homosexuality, stating vaguely that it was "presumed" that Byron and Giraud had an affair without clarifying who presumed such. The WP article also notes that "Correspondence among his circle of Cambridge friends also suggests that a key motive was the hope of homosexual experience" without stating any specific correspondence. I get a clear sense that whoever inserted these bits very much wanted to make this point about Byron's sexuality, but does not really have the specifics or sources to back it up. I'm no Byron scholar, and I don't know what his sexual orientation was, but I would prefer to see more specifics and less suggestions. 99.130.173.28 (talk) 09:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

There is a great deal of extremely well-documented evidence on Lord Byron's sexuality, which was flamingly and flagrantly bisexual. None of it "sporadic" and they only "seem to disagree with each other" when credulity and a desperate attempt to avoid the obvious is stretched beyond the breaking point.

Please see: Byron, George Gordon, Lord. The Complete Poetical Works. J. J. McGann, ed. 7 vols. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1980-1992.; Byron's Letters and Journals. L. Marchand, ed. 12 vols. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1973-1982; Crompton, Louis. Byron and Greek Love: Homophobia in 19th-Century England. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1985; Don Leon. A Homosexual Emancipation Miscellany c. 1835-1952. New York: Arno Press, 1975. 1-107; Knight, G. Wilson. Lord Byron's Marriage: The Evidence of Asterisks. London: Routledge and K. Paul, 1957; Marchand, Leslie. Byron: A Biography. 3 vols. New York: Knopf, 1957; Moore, Doris Langley. "Appendix 2: Byron's Sexual Ambivalence." Lord Byron: Accounts Rendered. London; John Murray, 1974. 437-459; et. al. 173.3.204.198 (talk)

A list of books proves nothing. We need to know what the books actually say. I harbour a suspicion that quotations (not too short, to avoid quote mining) from these books would reveal that the matter is not nearly as clear-cut as you claim, because cases of other historical personalities suspected of homosexual or bisexual behaviour are plagued with ambiguity. Moreover, the modern concept of sexual orientation did not exist in Byron's time, anyway. Just because he may have been a man who has sex with men (even if this could be proved definitely) does not make him gay or bi, which are anachronistic concepts. That is a crucial point that even Compton misses. Sexual behaviour/activity is not necessarily fixed identity/orientation (historically a very recent development). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:43, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

There is a great deal of extremely well-documented evidence on Lord Byron's sexuality, which was flamingly and flagrantly bisexual. None of it "sporadic" and they only "seem to disagree with each other" when credulity and a desperate attempt to avoid the obvious is stretched beyond the breaking point. Mardochee1 (talk) 05:10, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

The part of life Byron spent in Albania

This isn't complete for the reason that part of life Byron spent in Albania, and his love about Albanians, isn't mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.187.116.138 (talk) 19:56, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Byron and Greek Love

I'm weeding out some referenced material from Greek love. Contributors here might find a use for all or some of it as it's about Byron and it isn't all about 'Greek love'. I mysellf doubt whether Byron ever actually used the phrase 'Greek love', otherwise the passage would quote it. It's a term used by Crompton (I'd be happy to be corrected about this).McOoee (talk) 21:55, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

In describing homoerotic aspects of Byron's life and work, Louis Crompton uses the umbrella term "Greek love" to cover literary and cultural models of homosexuality from classical antiquity as a whole, both Greek and Roman, as received by intellectuals, artists, and moralists of the time. To those such as Byron who were steeped in classical literature, the phrase "Greek love" evoked pederastic myths such as Ganymede and Hyacinthus, as well as historical figures such as the political martyrs Harmodius and Aristogeiton, and Hadrian's beloved Antinous; Byron refers to all these stories in his writings. He was even more intimate with the classical tradition of male love in Latin literature, and quoted or translated homoerotic passages from Catullus, Horace, Virgil, and Petronius, whose name "was a byword for homosexuality in the eighteenth century." In Byron's circle at Cambridge, "Horatian" was a code word for "bisexual." Byron's library in England included Latin editions of Xenophon, Athenaeus, Catullus, Virgil, Horace, Tibullus, Propertius, Petronius, and Martial, and English translations of Anacreon, Herodotus, Lucretius, Juvenal, and Tacitus, all of whose works contain passages referring to the homosexual practices of their time.

Byron's "Ode 3" was an imitation of Anacreon, in the playful mode of erotic verse directed in antiquity at both women and boys. In his youth, Byron was also drawn to heroic love between men, particularly Vergil's account of the tragic bond between Nisus and Euryalus in Book 9 of the Aeneid, which Byron paraphrased in Hours of Idleness. Crompton connects Byron's interest in the Nisus and Euryalus narrative to a real-life relationship between the poet, as an aristocratic patron, and John Edlestone, a young man from a humble background who was two years Byron's junior.

In one of Byron's adaptations of a classical poem on the love of boys, he omits Catullus's addressee, the youth Juventius, and titled the poem "To Ellen":

Line	Byron, "To Ellen"	Line	Catullus, Carmen 48
1	Oh! might I kiss those eyes of fire,	1	Juventius, your honeyed eyes, Mellitos oculos tuos, Iuuenti,
2	A million scarce would quench desire;	3	with as many as three hundred thousand kisses usque ad milia basiem trecenta
3	Still, would I steep my lips in bliss,	2	(if anyone should allow me to kiss them), si quis me sinat usque basiare,
4	And dwell an age on every kiss;
5	Nor then my soul should sated be,	4	may I not ever seem to be sated, nec numquam uidear satur futurus,
6	Still, would I kiss, and cling to thee;
7	Nought should my kiss from thine dissever,	5	not even if more abundant than grain for harvest non si densior aridis aristis
8	Still, would we kiss, and kiss for ever.	6	our crop of kisses should be. sit nostrae seges osculationis.

The Death of Hyacinth (ca. 1801) in Apollo's arms, by a painter contemporary with Byron, Jean Broc

At this point in his life, Byron "for more than a year … had been exchanging chaste kisses with a boy at Cambridge he had fallen in love with." As the poet approached his 21st birthday, when he would accede to the House of Lords, his interests became wholly heterosexual and even "hectic" in the pursuit of women. His male relationships seem to have revived when he left England, but even in his correspondence, Byron and his friends resorted to the code of classical allusions, in one piece of correspondence referring with elaborate puns to "Hyacinths" who might be struck by coits, as the mythological Hyacinthus was accidentally felled while throwing the discus with Apollo.

Linkrot: "On the trail of the real Lord Byron" has died...

...unfortunately the ref is used a great number of times (about 18) in the article. I've found the article on Highbeam (preview only, subscription required) but I don't know what is to be done from this point. --bodnotbod (talk) 14:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

"The Byron's Stone"?

A picture in the article is captioned "The Byron's Stone in Tepelene, Albania". Is the name of the monument really prefixed with the definite article (i.e., "the")? Was Lord Byron ever called "the Byron"? I can see "the Byron Stone" or "the Byrons' Stone" (referring to multiple Byrons)--or, what seems most plausible, "Byron's Stone". (A Google search proved fruitless.) Urgos (talk) 02:30, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Poem written after swimming from Sestos to Abydos?

It's on WikiSource but I think it ought to be mentioned here [[1]]--187.232.249.144 (talk) 21:25, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Adaptations and references

Would anyone mind if I rearranged and subdivided some of the content in the 'adaptations' section? At the moment it's chronological, which is a decent way to go, but it might make more sense to divide it by media, and whether he's referenced in a work, or features in it. I'm also intrigued at how often he's portrayed as a vampire - does this itself deserve some commentary? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fulleraaron (talk • contribs) 11:45, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

George Byron Gordon

Why does it redirect here? Is it in any way his name? Srnec (talk) 14:11, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

It was probably made as a redirect from common misspelling. - Mtmelendez ^(Talk) 20:33, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Or, it might have something to do with the statement:

In order to claim his second wife's estate in Scotland, Byron's father took the additional surname "Gordon", becoming "John Byron Gordon", and he was occasionally styled "John Byron Gordon of Gight". Byron himself used this surname for a time and was registered at school in Aberdeen as "George Byron Gordon"

in the Early life section. Fat&Happy (talk) 21:21, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

"God spoke to the world in Armenian"

The section of the article dealing with Byron's time in Italy presently states: "Intrigued by the language and its efficacy as a spoken tongue, Byron affirmed in his memoirs that 'God spoke to the world in Armenian.'" The article has no citation for this quote (the larger paragraph cites a 1976 article (in Armenian) in the Soviet Armenian Encyclopedia that does not mention the quote), so I propose removing this sentence unless a citation to a reliable source can be found. I suspect that this quote is apocryphal. I have searched around quite a bit on the internet and looked through some of Byron's biographies and collections of letters and diaries but have not been able to find it in his writings or the published words of anyone who knew him. It is a bold statement so I would expect that it would be included in some of those sources. On the internet it always seems be quoted without a source (except for this Wikipedia article itself), sometimes with the companion statement "Armenian is the language to speak with God", which is occasionally incorrectly appended to an excerpt from Byron's initially-unpublished preface to A Grammar, Armenian and English that ends "and perhaps their language only requires to be more studied to become more attractive." I did find one mention of "Armenian is the language to speak with God" in a 2001 article in the newspaper The Guardian, but it also had no citation and the author is a theatre director and playwright rather than a journalist, so I don't know what to make of that. Of course, it is not inconceivable that Byron could have made such a statement, as it seems to be in line with Mekhitarist beliefs that Adam and God spoke with each other in Armenian since the Garden of Eden was in Armenia, and Byron did seem to be influenced by Mekhitarist interpretations of the Bible (for example, he apparently agreed that Paradise was in Armenia), but I cannot find any proof that he actually said or wrote "God spoke to the world in Armenian." Ketone16 (talk) 22:48, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

"Lord" Byron's Racism

Hey fellow wikis, I was hoping some folks might help me compile a section in the main article on Byron's racism and anti-Semitism. I know he was an Orientalismist (i.e., a racist) and that he fought to kill a lot of Turkish Muslims so I'm thinking folks could find some of that material in his writings that is racist and post it here. The quote I found is in Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy, p683, which is anti-Semitic and which Russell puts in context of 20th century Europe. Thanks! Teetotaler 17 August, 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.57.126.238 (talk) 08:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Some white person deleted this so I'm putting it back up with reference. (South Carolina sucks!)

"Belief in blood and race is naturally associated with anti-Semitism. ...[T]he suggestion that the capitalist world is governed by Jews... is expressed by Byron..."

Then Russell (the best!) quotes one of "Lord" Bygone's mediocre offerings: "Who hold the balance of the world? Who reign O'er conquerers, whether loyalist or liberal? ...Jew Rothschild".

Russell concludes: "The verse is perhaps not every musical, but the sentiment is quite of our time, and has been re-echoed by all of Byron's followers." (p683)

Living lean and mean. Teetotaler

Again and again some white person has undone my attempts to discuss the important addition of a section in the main article discussing a simpleton such as "Lord" Byron's racism and simple ignorance and bigotry. Bertrand Russell's (praise be to him) references a poem by Byron called "Dan Juan" which uses the words "Jew" and "Jews" in a racist way. The poem is available at the Gutenberg Project:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21700/21700-h/21700-h.htm

I was first tipped off to "Lord" Byron's simplicity by reading Russell but also by Edward Said's masterful work, "Orientalism" which puts Byron in context of the other conformists that he sought to emulate.

Looks like we've got an editing war but luckily I have the facts and moral authority on my side.

Lean and Mean. -Teetotaler

Teetotaler

I'm not going to deny Lord Byron (by the way he was legitimately a Lord so you don't need to put quotation marks around his name) was a racist, pretty much everyone was back then. But to help you out he references to Jews in the poem Don Juan only eight times.

Once about how a Jew and a priest take the mistresses of Don Jose when he dies;

Once as a Psalm 137:1 reference ("So Juan wept, as wept the captive Jews/By Babel's waters");

Several about money lending (due to racism prohibiting Jews from many professions at the time when Byron was alive) was a well known profession that Jews families owned. This is probably where the only offensive quotes can come from due to Byron not hiding his distaste of money lending:

"Of any creditors the worst a Jew it is,/And that 's their mode of furnishing supply:/In my young days they lent me cash that way,/Which I found very troublesome to pay."

"They are young, but know not youth—it is anticipated;/Handsome but wasted, rich without a sou;/Their vigour in a thousand arms is dissipated;/ Their cash comes from, their wealth goes to a Jew" This is basicly about how young men will squander their fortunes and get into debt.

"Who hold the balance of the world? Who reign/O'er congress, whether royalist or liberal?/Who rouse the shirtless patriots of Spain?/(That make old Europe's journals squeak and gibber all.)/Who keep the world, both old and new, in pain/Who make politics run glibber all?/The shade of Buonaparte's noble daring?-/Jew Rothschild, and his fellow-Christian, Baring." basicly saying bankers rule the world.;

and lastly when mentioning the different groups of people buying slaves ("But for the destiny of this young troop {of slaves},/How some were bought by pachas {meaning Pashas}, some by Jews").

Hope this helps. (P.S. Not only white people want to defend Byron, his flaws a very talented poet. For example I like Byron and I'm not white.) DSQ (talk) 10:43, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, Byron wrote the lyrics of Hebrew Melodies (including "She Walks In Beauty") for the Jewish composer Isaac Nathan. Michaelpeverett (talk) 12:44, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

"Major poems"

I've retitled this section "Selected shorter lyric poems". "Major" usually connotes a work of significant length or of key importance in the development of poet's career. That's misleading for these poems; they are just a handful of the hundreds of short lyrics that Byron churned out. Since Wikipedia isn't in the anthology business, it would probably be better to delete this section altogether and replace it with a more objective category, for example a list of his "well-known" short poems - which would include "She Walks in Beauty" and "We'll go no more a-roving" and nothing much else. Michaelpeverett (talk) 13:04, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

@Michaelpeverett: Great call! Though I am not familiar in how this list was created, generally these lists of less lengthy literary works (such as poems or short stories) are created ad-hoc as Wikipedia articles are created (see whats available for Byron at Category:Poetry by Lord Byron). If you have an awareness of the scholarship for these "well-knowns" and could provide WP:Verification that they are in fact well know: that would be an awesome way to improve this article. Let me know if you need any help developing that content! Sadads (talk) 16:46, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

@Sadads: OK I'll see what I can do. Michaelpeverett (talk) 13:36, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

@Sadads: I've now changed the selection, omitting juvenilia and adding some well-known pieces that were missing.Michaelpeverett (talk) 19:10, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

makes no sense

"His fascination was so great that he even considered a replacement of the Cain story of the Bible with that of the legend of Armenian patriarch Haik" When an author "replaces" something, he usually rewrites part of a work of his own. Byron didn't own the Bible so he couldn't possibly replace anything in it. Go back to your source and re-do the translation to make sense in English. Another one: "When the famous Danish sculptor Bertel Thorvaldsen heard about Byron's heroics in Greece, he voluntarily resculpted his earlier bust of Byron in Greek marble" Now of course he did it voluntarily, not under the lash. If you mean he did it without asking for remuneration from the original sponsor or soliciting donations to support him during the time he did it, say so. But if you mean he did it without prompting from anybody else, you want to say "spontaneously". Just because your source uses a specific word doesn't mean you should use it -- in fact you should NOT copy your source's wording unless you enclose it in quotes. Since Lady Caroline Lamb's characterization of Byron is NOT written on his tombstone, calling it an epitaph isn't good writing. Glenarvon: I've read it, it depicts Lord Ruthven as sinister. Seedy means down and out and therefore looking in ill health and being poorly dressed. 108.18.136.147 (talk) 19:10, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Origin of Name

I read somewhere that Lord Byron's ancestry was Norman, his ancestors coming to England with William the Conqueror. The original name was de Burun, anglicized later to Byron. Any truth to this?98.170.198.158 (talk) 22:51, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I believe there is an error in the description of the Lord Byron portrait that hangs in Athens, I believe that he is dressed in traditional GREEK attire NOT Albanian.124.187.116.251 (talk) 05:29, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Byron wasn't a Victorian

From article:

regarded by early Victorians as somewhat shocking

Don Juan was published in 1819. This is most definitely still the Hanoverian period. George III was still on the throne (tho he'd lost his marbles for good by then) & the future George IV was acting as Prince Regent. He became king in 1820 & didn't demise until 1830. He was succeeded by his brother, William IV, who sat on the throne for an additional 7 yrs until his niece Victoria became queen at his death in 1837.

Something that was published the yr Victoria was born doesn't mean that's when the Victorian period began. She wasn't even called Victoria until she ascended the throne; her full name was Alexandrina Victoria, she was known as Princess Alexandrina throughout her childhood, & surprised everyone by deciding to take the regnal name of Victoria, as that was her mother's name & they had a tempestuous relationship. She had 2 uncles & her father, Edward, Duke of Kent, ahead of her in queue at her birth. In the early 1820s there were also the 2 daughters of William IV - Princess Charlotte & Princess Elizabeth - who died very young (tho I suppose Charlotte doesn't count for much as she only lived a day). Victoria wasn't the heir apparent until William became king (by then it had been several yrs since Queen Adelaide had conceived - she gave birth once so prematurely, just 5 mos after Charlotte died, that the gender was indeterminate, & her twin sons, which I think is the only instance to date of twins in the royal family, were born dead). Whilst Victoria was born the granddaughter of a reigning monarch in the male line, she didn't become truly important until 1830.

This work came out 18 yrs before Victoria acceded to the throne. It could be said "regarded by the later Hanoverians as somewhat shocking". Or it could be said "regarded by the late Regency public as somewhat shocking". But not Victorian. The Victorian era was from 1837-1901, the yrs that she reigned as queen.

Asking for input from any prior contributors to this article: would the preference be to change the error to Hanoverian, or Regency public?ScarletRibbons (talk) 11:37, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Link to Poem Text

Manfred (1817) (text on Wikisource)

Unfortunately, the text of the poem is not on Wikisource; only the introductory texts and table of contents of Volume 4 of Byron's poetry are there. Furthermore, the internal link is not to Volume 4, in which the poem is even listed; one must search for it among seven volumes of his poetry. ☺ Dick Kimball (talk) 14:32, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Can we replace "illegitimate" with "out of wedlock"?

Thanks for your consideration. Benvhoff (talk) 21:22, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Zoophilia?

In the Fondness for Animals section, following the well cited information about his pet bear, there is a statement that seems to me to be rather suspect. The sentence in question reads "It has been suggested that Byron's relationship with the bear went beyond that of pet and master; scholars have occasionally cited this incident as evidence of Byron's zoophilia. [81]". I do not have access to the material cited (Grebanier, Bernard (1970). The Uninhibited Byron; An Account of his Sexual Confusion. New York: Crown. p. 179.) as the full text of the book is not available online, however I have done some searching and I cannot find a single instance of scholars citing this incident as evidence of Byron's zoophilia or his participation in bestiality. Until it can be confirmed that this suggestion does in fact appear in the cited work, and that scholars do in fact cite this incident as evidence of Byron's zoophilia, I am removing the sentence from the article as it seems to be at best WP:OR and at worst vandalism. Also I would like to add that if the cited work does indeed include this suggestion, it still does not represent the widely accepted history of Byron and we should be very careful not to give this hypothesis undue weight. Thank you for your time, if I did anything wrong please inform me, as this is my first edit on WP. UnequivocalAmbivalence (talk) 06:02, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Works

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Lord%20Byron%22

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22George+Gordon+Byron%22&page=6

Greek translation

https://archive.org/details/hogkiaourtemach00byrogoog

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22George%20Gordon%20Byron%22&and[]=subject%3A%22Armenian%20literature%22

Lord Byron's Armenian exercises and poetry

https://archive.org/details/lordbyronsarmeni00byro

Lord Byron's Armenian exercises and poetry

https://archive.org/details/lordbyronsarmeni01byro

Beauties of English poets = Tsaghkakʻagh kʻertʻoghatsʻ Angghiatsʻwotsʻ

https://archive.org/details/beautiesofenglis01awge

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22George%20Gordon%20Byron%22&and[]=subject%3A%22Armenian%20language%20--%20Grammar%22

A grammer, Armenian and English

https://archive.org/details/grammerarmeniane00awgerich

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22George%20Gordon%20Byron%22&and[]=subject%3A%22Armenian%20language%22

A grammer, Armenian and English

https://archive.org/details/grammerarmeniane00awgerich

A grammar, Armenian and English

https://archive.org/details/grammararmenian00auke

Lord Byron's Armenian exercises and poetry

https://archive.org/details/lordbyronsarmeni01byro

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22George%20Gordon%20Byron%22&and[]=subject%3A%22Armenian%20poetry%22

Beauties of English poets = Tsaghkakʻagh kʻertʻoghatsʻ Angghiatsʻwotsʻ

https://archive.org/details/beautiesofenglis01awge

byron armenian monastery

San Lazzaro: The Armenian Monastery Near Venice https://books.google.com/books?id=csMOAQAAIAAJ&q=byron+armenian+monastery&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=csMOAQAAIAAJ Sophy Sorgoudje, ‎George Gordon Byron Baron Byron - 1938 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions

The Island of San Lazzaro, Or, The Armenian Monastery Near ... https://books.google.com/books?id=6OAVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAWoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=6OAVAAAAYAAJ James Issaverdenz - 1890 - ‎Read - ‎More editions LORD BYRON ROOM • Leaving this little Museum and entering by the door over which th portrait of Napoleon is placed , the Visitor finds himself in the very room which Lord Byron occupied as his study. It is a small room like those occupied by ...

Lord Byron at the Armenian Convent - Page 11 https://books.google.com/books?id=sJYVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA11&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAmoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=sJYVAAAAYAAJ George Eric Mackay - 1876 - ‎Read - ‎More editions Chapter I. Byron at Twenty Nine Soon after his arrival in Venice, in November 1816, Lord Byron visited the Convent of the Armenians, on the island of St Lazarus, and there lived, at intervals, for several months. His object was the, study of ...

The Works of Lord Byron - Volume 4 - Page 9 https://books.google.com/books?id=dWARAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA9&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC4Q6AEwA2oVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=dWARAAAAYAAJ George Gordon Byron Baron Byron - 1904 - ‎Read - ‎More editions I found I. The Armenian Mekhitarist Convent, on the island of St. Lazzaro, two miles to the south-east of Venice, was founded by Peter Mekhitar (1676-1749), about 1717, and completed in 1740. When Byron visited it, Aconce was Abbot ...

The works of Lord Byron - Volume 11 - Page 9 https://books.google.com/books?id=GQjDaOeA3w8C&pg=PA9&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBGoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=GQjDaOeA3w8C Baron George Gordon Byron Byron - 1904 - ‎Read - ‎More editions I found I. The Armenian Mekhitarist Convent, on the island of St. I.azzaro, two miles to the south-east of Venice, was founded by Peter Mekhitar (1676—1749), about 1717, and completed in 1740. When Byron visited it, Aconce was Abbot ...

Works of Lord Byron: With His Letters and Journals, and ... https://books.google.com/books?id=8JcgAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA312&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBWoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=8JcgAAAAMAAJ George Gordon Byron Baron Byron, ‎Thomas Moore - 1833 - ‎Read - ‎More editions With His Letters and Journals, and His Life George Gordon Byron Baron Byron, Thomas Moore. ropeans — even the ... By way of divertisement, I am studying daily, at an Armenian monastery, the Armenian language. I found that my mind ...

Lord Byron's Armenian Exercises and Poetry - Page 10 https://books.google.com/books?id=CDI-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA10&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBmoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=CDI-AAAAYAAJ George Gordon Byron Baron Byron - 1870 - ‎Read - ‎More editions MOORE S December 4816 By way of divertisement, I am studying daily, at an Armenian monastery, the Armenian language. I found that my mind wanted something craggy to break upon ; and this - as the most difficult thing I could discover ...

Lord Byron's Armenian exercises and poetry - Page 10 https://books.google.com/books?id=S7MDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA10&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEcQ6AEwB2oVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=S7MDAAAAQAAJ George Gordon N. Byron (6th baron.) - 1870 - ‎Read MOORE 5 December 1816 By way of divertisement, I am studying daily, at an Armenian monastery, the Armenian language. I found that my mind wanted something craggy to break upon ; and this - as the most difficult thing I could discover ...

Lord Byron's Life in Italy - Page 92 https://books.google.com/books?id=xnLWs6r4DiUC&pg=PA92&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCGoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0874137160 Teresa Guiccioli (contessa di), ‎Michael Rees, ‎Peter Cochran - 2005 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions For that purpose he placed himself under the tuition of the Armenian monks at the Convent of San Lazzaro. “By way of divertisement,” he wrote to Moore barely a fortnight after getting to Venice, “I am studying daily, at an Armenian monastery, ...

Armenia and the Armenians: A List of References in the New ... https://books.google.com/books?id=DWIxAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA48&dq=byron+armenian+monastery&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCWoVChMIrbGXw9WMyQIVSEcmCh3I3whw

https://books.google.com/books?id=DWIxAAAAMAAJ New York Public Library - 1919 - ‎Read - ‎More editions Venice: Armenian Academy, 1817. 4 p.l., 181 p., 2 1. 12°. *ONL Aukerian, Haroutiun, and G. G. N. Byron, 6. Baron Byron. A grammar, Armenian and English, by P. Paschal Aucher and Lord Byron. Venice: printed in the Armenian monastery of ...

Rajmaan (talk) 05:41, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Why Not "George Gordon, Lord Byron"?

Just wondering why this article is not entitled "George Gordon, Lord Byron", rather than simply "Lord Byron"? In almost all of his works, he seems to be credited as the former, so why is the article entitled as the latter? I was of the impression these Wikipedia pages were intended to list people as their most well-known and referred to names? Schmendrick (talk) 15:07, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Byron 'killed'

I notice that an erroneous impression that Byron was killed in action during the Greek War of Independence arose at some point after his death, as reflected in this quotation from Byron scholar Bullough, from a work (author Crompton) published in 1985 which is shown on this page:

When Byron returned to Italy, he became involved with a number of boys in Venice but eventually settled on Loukas Chalandritsanos, age 15, who was with him when he was killed.

I added a (sic) against the last word, with a footnote clarifying Byron was not killed in battle and referring to Tom Burnam's book "The Dictionary of Misinformation" (edition published 1985 also) which does not indicate when the idea of 'death in battle' first gained currency. I wonder if any published writers first gave currency to the misunderstanding?Cloptonson (talk) 09:02, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Subsection "Post Mortem" - misleading title

I was slightly disappointed after seeing in the contents list under the "Death" section "Post-Mortem". This may be an acceptable expression for "after death" but I am sure some readers, as I was, were expecting to see an account of what (particularly in US parlance) was aka his "autopsy". As there is no reference to the latter, "After death" may be the better expression for readers unschooled in Latin to cover the subsection's otherwise well detailed contents. I recall reading in a book at school in the 1970s, "Midlanders who made History", where the story begins with the account of his last illness and death, that "a post mortem was crudely carried out", which IIRC revealed his brain was in a condition more appropriate to an octogenarian than a man of Byron's 36 years. The brain's weight in Neapolitan ounces I have seen quoted in the Guinness Book of Records.Cloptonson (talk) 05:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

8½-year-old pet crocodile added to Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia

I undid the edits claiming that Byron owned a crocodile and a honey badger, and added them to Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia because they were over a year old and the crocodile was mentioned in a Sunday Times article. If my research was deficient and he actually did own a crocodile, please remove it from the list of hoaxes in addition to re-adding it here (with a source this time). -- BenRG (talk) 18:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

When I was an undergrad at Trinity, Cambridge the college rule on pets was that "Lord Byron is said to have kept a bear at Trinity. However, undergraduates are not nowadays permitted to keep pets." I see this is mentioned below, although not the modern prohibition on bears.Paulturtle (talk) 01:36, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2018

I am requesting editing privileges for this page to correct spelling, grammar and formatting errors.

He died in 1824 at the age of 36 from a fever contracted in Missolonghi. He died in 1824 at the age of 36 from a fever contract in Missolonghi, Greece. Added the country that he died in for clarification. Many people may not know where Missolonghi is located.

Often described as the most flamboyant and notorious of the major Romantics, Byron was both celebrated and castigated in his life for his aristocratic excesses including huge debts, numerous love affairs with both men and women, as well as rumors of a scandalous liaison with his half-sister. Often described as the most flamboyant and notorious of the major Romantics, Byron was both celebrated and castigated in his life for his aristocratic excesses, which included huge debts, numerous love affairs with both men and women, as well as rumors of a scandalous liaison with his half-sister. Changed including to included for tense agreement.

Early life - Early Life Capitalized the first letter of each word in the heading

Mrs Byron to Mrs. Byron Added a period to Mrs. to correct spelling error

Early career Early Career Capitalized the first letter of each word in the heading

About the same time he began his intimacy with his future biographer, Thomas Moore. About the same time, he began his intimacy with his future biographer, Thomas Moore. Inserted a comma before the independent clause.

First travels to the East First Travels to the East Capitalized the first letter of each word in the heading

He travelled with Hobhouse for the first year and his entourage of servants included the trusty butt of the young men’s humour, William Fletcher, Byron’s valet. He travelled with Hobhouse for the first year. His entourage of servants included Byron’s trustworthy valet, William Fletcher. Fletcher was often the butt of Hobhouse and Byron’s humor. Corrected the spelling of humor. Also corrected the sentence which was a run-on.

From 1821 to 1822, he finished Cantos 6–12 of Don Juan at Pisa, and in the same year he joined with Leigh Hunt and Shelley in starting a short-lived newspaper, The Liberal, in the first number of which appeared The Vision of Judgment. From 1821 to 1822, Byron finished Cantos 6–12 of Don Juan at Pisa, and in the same year he joined with Leigh Hunt and Shelley in starting a short-lived newspaper, The Liberal, in the first number of which appeared The Vision of Judgment. The previous paragraph was an excerpt from a letter by Percy Shelley. The next noun was he. I changed he to Byron for pronoun agreement. The article needed to make it clear that the he referred to was Byron and not Shelley.

His last Italian home was Genoa, where he was still accompanied by the Countess Guiccioli, and the Blessingtons, providing the material for Lady Blessington's work: Conversations with Lord Byron, an important text in the reception of Byron in the period immediately after his death. His last Italian home was Genoa. While living there he was accompanied by the Countess Guiccioli and the Blessingtons. Lady Blessington based much of the material in her book, Conversations with Lord Byron, on the time spent together there. This book became an important biographical text about Byron’s life just prior to his death.Reworked this into 3 separate sentences so that it was no longer a run-on sentence.

At first, Byron did not wish to abandon his twenty-two year old mistress Countess Teresa Guiccioli who had abandoned her husband to live with him; to At first, Byron did not wish to leave his twenty-two-year-old mistress Countess Teresa Guiccioli who had abandoned her husband to live with him; Corrected the spelling of twenty-two-year-old. Changed abandoned to leave because of redundancy.

When Byron left Genoa, it caused "passionate grief" from Guiccioli, who wept openly as he sailed away to Greece, though the Hercules was forced to return to port shortly afterwards, and when the Hercules set sail for the final time, Guiccioli had left.[56] to When Byron left Genoa, it caused "passionate grief" from Guiccioli, who wept openly as he sailed away to Greece. The Hercules was forced to return to port shortly afterwards. When it set sail for the final time, Guiccioli had already left Genoa.[56] The original was a run-on sentence. I separated into three separate sentences.

His voyage is covered in detail in Byron Historian Donald Prell's Sailing with Byron from Genoa to Cephalonia.[57] His voyage is covered in detail in Donald Prell's Sailing with Byron from Genoa to Cephalonia.[57] Removed Byron historian because it is the only reference to Donald Prell and was redundant and confusing because it made the sentence long and awkward. We can note that he wrote a biography on Lord Byron from the title of the book.

The Hercules was aged 37 when, on 21 September 1852, her life ended when she went aground near Hartlepool, only 25 miles south of Sunderland, where in 1815, her keel was laid; Byron's "keel was laid" nine months before his official birth date, 22 January 1788; therefore in ship-years, he was aged 37, when he died in Missolonghi.[58] The Hercules was aged 37 when, on 21 September 1852, she went aground near Hartlepool, only 25 miles south of Sunderland, where in 1815, her keel was laid; Byron's "keel was laid" nine months before his official birth date, 22 January 1788; therefore in ship-years, he was aged 37, when he died in Missolonghi.[58] I removed “her life ended when” because it seems as if the author was trying to be poetic instead of descriptive. It was a very awkward sentence and deleting that clause helped it read better.

Byron found himself besieged by various people, both Greek and foreign who were always trying to persuade Byron to open up his pocketbook to support them, and by end of March 1824, the so-called "Byron brigade" of 30 philhellene officers and about 200 men had been formed, paid for entirely by Byron.[67] By the end of March 1824, the so-called "Byron brigade" of 30 philhellene officers and about 200 men had been formed, paid for entirely by Byron.[67] Run on sentence. Created two separate sentences for clarity and ease in reading.

Leadership of the Greek cause in the Roumeli region was divided between two rival leaders, a former Klepht (bandit) Odysseas Androutsos and a wealthy Phanariot merchant Alexandros Mavrokordatos and Byron used his prestige to attempt to persuade the two rival leaders to come together to focus on defeating the Ottomans.[68] Leadership of the Greek cause in the Roumeli region was divided between two rival leaders, a former Klepht (bandit) Odysseas Androutsos and a wealthy Phanariot merchant Alexandros Mavrokordatos. Byron used his prestige to attempt to persuade the two rival leaders to come together to focus on defeating the Ottomans.[68] Run on sentence. Created two separate sentences for clarity and ease in reading.

Byron employed a fire-master to prepare artillery and took part of the rebel army under his own command, despite his lack of military experience. Byron employed a fire-master to prepare artillery and he took part of the rebel army under his own command, despite his lack of military experience. Added he for pronoun agreement.

The British historian, David Brewer wrote that in one sense, Byron was a failure in Greece as he failed to persuade the rival Greek factions to unite and he did not achieve any military victories being successful only in the humanitarian sphere, using his great wealth to help the victims of the war, Muslim and Christian, but this did not affect the outcome of the Greek war of independence one iota.[74] The British historian, David Brewer wrote that in one sense, Byron was a failure in Greece as he failed to persuade the rival Greek factions to unite. Also, he did not achieve any military victories. He was successful only in the humanitarian sphere, using his great wealth to help the victims of the war, Muslim and Christian, but this did not affect the outcome of the Greek war of independence one iota.[74] Run on sentence. Created two separate sentences for clarity and ease in reading.

Post mortem Post Mortem Capitalized the heading

Personal life Personal Life To match the consistency of the rest of the document I capitalized the heading.

Relationships and scandals Relationships and Scandals Capitalized the subheading

He wished for her to be brought up Catholic and not marry an Englishman and made arrangements for her to inherit 5,000 lira upon marriage, or when she reached the age of 21, provided she did not marry a native of Britain.[48] He wished for her to be brought up Catholic and not marry an Englishman.[48] Byron made arrangements for her to inherit 5,000 lira upon marriage, or when she reached the age of 21, provided she did not marry a native of Britain.[48] Made this run-on sentence two sentences.

Sea and swimming Sea and Swimming Capitalized the heading

Fondness for animals Fondness for Animals Capitalized the heading

Character and psyche Character and Psyche Capitalized the heading

Birth defect Birth Defect Capitalized the heading

He first met Byron on a voyage to Sardinia and did not realise he had any deficiency for several days, and still could not tell at first if the lameness was a temporary injury or not but by the time he met him, Byron he was an adult and had worked to develop "a mode of walking across a room by which it was scarcely at all perceptible".[16] He first met Byron on a voyage to Sardinia and did not realize he had any deficiency for several days, and still could not tell at first if the lameness was a temporary injury or not. At the time Galt met him, Byron was an adult and had worked to develop "a mode of walking across a room by which it was scarcely at all perceptible".[16] I restructured the sentence for better flow and to eliminate the subject pronoun agreement errors that made the sentenced difficult to understand.

He attended pugilistic tuition at the Bond Street rooms of former prizefighting champion ‘Gentleman’ John Jackson, and recorded these sparring sessions in his letters and journals with the man he called the Emperor of Pugilism.[119] He attended pugilistic tuition at the Bond Street rooms of former prizefighting champion, ‘Gentleman’ John Jackson, who Byron called ‘the Emperor of Pugilism’ and recorded these sparring sessions in his letters and journals.[119] I restructured the sentence for better flow and to eliminate the subject pronoun agreement errors that made the sentenced difficult to understand.

Political career Political Career Capitalized the heading

36 Byron Societies function throughout the world, and an International Conference takes place annually. Thirty-six Byron Societies function throughout the world, and an International Conference takes place annually. Wrote out thirty-six

Byronic hero Byronic Hero Capitalized the heading

continental literature Continental literature Capitalized Continental

In popular culture In Popular Culture Capitalized the heading StarlaSandoz1 (talk) 05:39, 12 February 2018 (UTC)StarlaSandoz1 StarlaSandoz1 (talk) 05:39, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Note: I have added line breaks to the above user's comment to enhance readability. I will respond shortly. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:53, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Responding to edit requests in order:

1.  Not done: Missolonghi is wikilinked so anyone who wants to know where it is can click on it. Furthermore, its political jurisdiction at the time of Lord Byron's death is in the infobox.
2.  Done
3.  Not done: Please see MOS:HEADCAPS
4.  Not done: Please see WP:ENGVAR
5.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
6.  Done
7.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
8.  Partly done: I fixed the run-on sentence but retained the spelling "humour" per WP:ENGVAR.
9.  Done
10.  Done
11.  Done
12.  Done
13.  Done
14.  Done
15.  Done
16.  Done
17.  Done
18.  Done
19.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
20.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
21.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
22.  Not done: This sentence isn't as bad as some of the other run-ons, but I made a different change to it.
23.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
24.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
25.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
26.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
27.  Done
28.  Done
29.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
30.  Done
31.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS
32.  Already done
33.  Not done: MOS:HEADCAPS

—KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Byron's ancestry

A User:ScrapIronIV has now removed Byron's ancestry which I added yesterday [2]. Whilst I would agree it would not be appropriate to put these ancestry charts for most people, in Byron's case, he was a member of the nobility for whom alliances through marriage and pedigree were very much an important part of who they were and the position they held in society. If necessary I can fully source it through published (not self published/online family tree etc.) sources. Quidquodquo (talk) 13:01, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Scottish background

Can someone tell me why Byron's Scottish background is continually airbushed out? He went to school in Aberdeen and appears to have self-identified as Scottish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpringsteenSessions (talk • contribs) 15:55, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

There seems to be a fair amount on it, there is a bit more that can be added from his Gordon side perhaps. Quidquodquo (talk) 13:04, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Technical issue

For some reason, in mobile view (both the Google app and Safari) the article's second paragraph appears before the first. This is how it looks. I checked a few other articles but this seems to be the only one it happens on. Lizard (talk) 15:05, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Same for me on Google app and Chrome. DuncanHill (talk) 15:41, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Ok..so when I copied the whole of the page's code into my sandbox, the sandbox showed just fine in mobile view..this is weird Galobtter (pingó mió) 16:08, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Mobile view (revision 853564538) of "Lord Byron". --Pipetricker (talk) 16:56, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Strangely, the reverse paragraph order seems to appear with this edit.

Before – after (27 December 2016), in mobile view. --Pipetricker (talk) 17:46, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Fixed. --Pipetricker (talk) 18:12, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pipetricker: thanks for the fix, looks like this is certainly a bug - can you write up your findings and open a phab ticket? — xaosflux ^Talk 21:50, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I'm going to test a couple of things first and depending on the result I may bring it up at WP:VPT or take it directly to phab:. --Pipetricker (talk) 22:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

As Galobtter said, he copied the article to a sandbox [3], and the article version [4] has the error but not the identical sandbox version [5]. The error does not appear when previewing the article in mobile so the only way I can think of to examine in which circumstances it occurs is to save different versions in mainspace. I don't want to do that. The html of the rendered page shows the paragraphs are also switched there so it's not like cases where a browser changes the display order from the html due to wikitext errors like illegal table code. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:09, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I temporarily saved a version identical to the latest revision with the bug, except with everything above the lead section removed. As I expected, that version doesn't have the bug. (I also tried to look with the migration tool at a buggy revision in mobile view, which doesn't work, because as you say, the error doesn't appear when previewing the article in mobile. It didn't work when the buggy version was the current revision, either.)

Xaosflux, I will be away from Wikipedia for a week or two from now, and am already in a hurry, so I'm dropping this now. --Pipetricker (talk) 09:25, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

It was mentioned at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Article's first and second paragraph appear in reverse order in mobile view that mobile moves infoboxes to after the lead paragraph. See mw:Reading/Web/Projects/Lead Paragraph Move. It appears to only be done in mainspace and not in preview. I guess the problem is that mobile somehow gets confused by ''' ''' in '''George Gordon Byron,''' '''6th Baron Byron'''. If mobile thinks the lead is a part of the infobox and that the second paragraph is actually the lead then it would explain the switch. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:59, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Well the comma is supposed to go outside the bold text anyway, so it's no big deal. Unless there are other things that may cause it to happen. Lizard (talk) 03:40, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

This problem also exists at Bere Regis. Hairy Dude (talk) 16:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC) Correcting a typo (unmatched parenthesis after the pronunciation template) fixed it. Looks like there's some sort of heuristic that determines what to put first, and it gets confused sometimes. Hairy Dude (talk) 16:28, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Fondness for Animals

the article on Epitaph to a Dog is a bit at odds with its mention here. That article reports that Hobhouse wrote only the preface inscribed above the poem, while this section seems (to me at least) to suggest that the entire piece was written by Hobhouse rather than Byron. PurpleChez (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Marchioness of Carmarthen

This sentence, which describes John Byron's second wife, could be copy-edited to be clearer:

Byron's father had previously seduced the married Marchioness of Carmarthen and, after she divorced her husband, he married her.

I would recommend something like:

John Byron's first wife, the Marchioness of Carmarthen, was married when their sexual relationship began; eventually she divorced her husband and married Byron.

The assertion is unsourced, so it might also be good either to add an inline citation, or to omit the nature of their relationship prior to their marriage. Matuko (talk) 15:11, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

File:George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron by Richard Westall (2).jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron by Richard Westall (2).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on January 22, 2020. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2020-01-22. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:53, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Picture of the day

This portrait of Lord Byron (22 January 1788 – 19 April 1824), by the English artist Richard Westall, is an oil-on-canvas work painted in 1813. Byron was an English poet, peer, and politician who became a revolutionary in the Greek War of Independence. He contributed generously to this cause, and despite his military inexperience, took a section of the rebel army under his own command. He fell ill while planning an attack on the Turkish-held fortress of Lepanto, rallied a little, developed a fever, and died a few weeks later.

This is one of a number of portraits of Byron painted by Richard Westall, who also painted Horatio Nelson, John Milton, and other well-known figures, as well as landscapes in watercolour and book illustrations. This picture hangs in the National Portrait Gallery, London.Painting credit: Richard Westall

Wrong redirect of "Byron"

The search for "Byron" redirects to the article Lord Byron.
I think it should redirect to Byron (disambiguation).
But 1st: this is only my opinion and
2nd: I don't see a link to the redirect page, which means: I can't change this myself.
Please ping me. Steue (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Armenian is the language to speak with God

As someone who loves both Byron and Armenia this quote baffles me as to where it came from. I have no problem being proven wrong if someone can supply the original source but I've yet to see these words in any of his published writings, letters or notebooks. Xenomorph erotica (talk) 15:28, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Lord Byron was Scottish

Or half at the very least given his mother was Scottish (and a descendant of King James I) and he spent his formative years in the North-East, even retaining traces of an Aberdonian accent throughout his life. Seems a little erroneous to label him "English". Might as well call men like King James VI "English" because he spent his later years in England. More technical term for his nationality would be either Anglo-Scottish or more generally "British". 81.154.45.58 (talk) 09:42, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

He was born and raised in England to an English father and Scottish mother. English is more accurate than Scottish, if it has to be one or the other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Everwinter (talk • contribs) 14:06, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Byron sometimes self-identified as Scottish, spoke with a Scottish accent and also wrote poems within the Scottish tradition. Lochnagar is not the work of someone who is pure. He said that he was “half a Scot by birth, and bred / A whole one”[6] <- that's a Scotsman, sorry.-86.184.193.152 (talk) 18:16, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Nope, Lord Byron was not Scottish and I say this as a Scot. He was born and lived in England except for a few years he lived in Scotland. To try and claim him as Scottish simply because he lived in Scotland a few years smells of nationalist desperation to be honest. By this logic many famous Scots would have to be changed to being described as English. I wouldn’t want the English to claim some of our famous writers. We should not start trying to claim non Scottish people because they set foot in Scotland once. This is a remanent of the nationalism the SNP have installed in Scotland in recent years. Thankfully that appears to be collapsing now. Byron was born in London, lived in Scotland between the ages of 2 and 10, then moved back to England. He went to Harrow school. He's English.ByrdTallisPurcell (talk) 10:03, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Cheque for Greece

A deathbed cheque from Byron to Greece for 4,000 pounds and decisive for the Greek independence struggle has reportedly been discovered: Smith, Helena (18 April 2021). "Revealed: Lord Byron's £4,000 cheque that helped create modern Greece". The Observer. Retrieved 18 April 2021. Please think of adding this if you are familiar with the period. Errantius (talk) 11:55, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Minor edit to wording of parenthesis under Family and Early Life

In this passage, the wording in the parenthesis is a bit confusing: "... mother named him after her own father George Gordon of Gight.[19] (His grandfather was a descendant of James I of Scotland, and died by suicide in 1779.)"

Due to the unclear pronoun antecedent, it looks like "his grandfather" means George Gordon of Gight's grandfather. From looking at the cited article, however, it seems George Gordon of Gight himself died by suicide, not his grandfather. (The "his" evidently refers to Lord Byron, since George Gordon of Gight was Lord Byron's maternal grandfather, but that is not clear in the current wording.) I suggest minor grammatical editing:

"...but as her husband remained absent, his mother named him after her own father George Gordon of Gight, who was a descendant of James I of Scotland and died by suicide in 1779.[19]"

The article cited does not seem to mention James I, but only "Stewart blood." I'm leaving James I and just editing for grammar. --Hypoplectrus (talk) 18:52, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Nobility in the short description

It doesn't really matter that much. Really really not. But does the short description really need to say that he was a nobleman? It is right there in the article name (unless you are worried that it's his Jazz Name like Duke Ellington and his real name was just Steve Byron etc) and if anyone looks at the article it's right there in your face in a moment. I am not willing to go to fisticuffs over this, but when I think of him I just think "poet" – his other job prancing around in ermine (?) doesn't seem that relevant, and in particular doesn't seem worth mentioning in his short description. It's a fact, yes, but so is the fact that he's Ada's dad too, or liked motorbikes, or whatever, and we don't mention that there ... But YMMV. I'd be interested to know what others think, and to hear from the IP who is keen on its inclusion. Cheers DBaK (talk) 07:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree. I also think that referring to a 19th century Englishman as a "nobleman" (rather than, eg, as a "peer") sounds ever so slightly odd in British English. 45ossington (talk) 10:28, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

More please on that memorial prompted by Ripley caption (re section Post-Mortem)

Robert Ripley had drawn a picture of Boatswain's grave with the caption "Lord Byron's dog has a magnificent tomb while Lord Byron himself has none". This came as a shock to the English, particularly schoolchildren, who, Ripley said, raised funds of their own accord to provide the poet with a suitable memorial.

This could do with a year and a location of that memorial to Byron being stated. Ripley lived 1890-1949 and the caption was in a series of 'Believe It or Not' published in 1950. I am not sure if Ripley was unaware of the gravestone in Hucknall Church presented by the King of Greece, and the statue unveiled in 1880 in Hyde Park Corner, London, whose plinth was a gift of the Greek Government.Cloptonson (talk) 17:26, 15 May 2021 (UTC)