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Summary of Military history WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · full list News and announcements The July newsletter is now available. Editors are advised that Featured Articles promoted before 2016 are in need of review, if you had an article promoted to Featured status on or before 2016 please check and update your article before they are listed at FAR/C. Current discussions No major discussions are open at the moment Featured article candidates Jozo Tomasevich • Genghis Khan • Benjamin Jackson (sailor) • Battle of Tinian Featured article review Byzantine Empire • Battle of Red Cliffs • Edward I of England • Northrop YF-23 • Middle Ages Featured picture candidates Thorsten Nordenfelt A-Class review Henry Biard • Fort Corcoran • Sihanouk Trail • Battle of La Haye-du-Puits • Boot Monument • CSS General Earl Van Dorn • Miyoshi Nagayoshi • Ernest J. King • Tim Hughes (soldier) • British nuclear weapons and the Falklands War • Lockheed YF-22 Peer reviews Muckrach Castle • Regency of Algiers • Military logistics • Brighton hotel bombing • Military dictatorship Good article nominees Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1401–1403) • Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma • Khalji Revolution • 1864 Washington Arsenal explosion • George II of Greece • Roswell incident • Maximiliano Hernández Martínez • Mohammad Shah Qajar • Gubir shootdown • Chestertown Armory • Mariano R. Vázquez • Gotha WD.7 • Constantine II (emperor) • Japanese destroyer Natsuzuki • Battle of Lewisburg • Bill Crawford-Compton • Sentient (intelligence analysis system) • John S. McCain Sr. • Eleanor of Castile • Charles Upham • Giado concentration camp • The Motherland Calls • Soldiers' and Sailors' Arch • Malin massacre • Monument to the uprising of the people of Kordun and Banija • Ehengbuda • Destruction of cultural heritage during the 2023 Israeli invasion of Gaza • Amazon-class frigate (1795) • Operation Matterhorn logistics • Advanced Tactical Fighter • Northrop B-2 Spirit • Udagbedo Good article reassessments Franklin's lost expedition • Justinian I • Combat Aviation Brigade, 10th Mountain Division • Joe Rice • Gettysburg Cyclorama • Kowloon Walled City Articles that need... work on referencing and citation (147,702) • only work on referencing and citation (43,174) • work on coverage and accuracy (122,868) • only work on coverage and accuracy (19,724) • work on structure (31,821) • only work on structure (359) • work on grammar (8,174) • only work on grammar (46) • work on supporting materials (32,806) • only work on supporting materials (1,338) • assessment (6) • assessment as lists (125) • project tags fixed (4) • assessment checklists added (0) • assessment checklists completed (4) • task forces added (284) • attention to task force coverage (656)

Anglo-Turkish War of 1918-1923

Found this while patrolling. I can't find references to an "Anglo-Turkish War" using basic google searches, which seems odd given the scale of this article and the large countries involved? I am also wary that this might be a WP:FORK of Turkish War of Independence, which is an article with neutrality issues. Therefore I bring it here for your consideration. thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Seems like a neologism to me too. Huntthetroll (talk) 21:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Seems like a neologism to me too. The infobox appears to reflect the Turkish War of Independence (for what the infobox is worth). Cinderella157 (talk) 00:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

The article has now been moved twice, unnecessarily creating a double redirect. At least one editor seems dead-set on the name "Anglo-Turkish War". (See also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/BaharatlıCheetos2.0.) Huntthetroll (talk) 18:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Russian War Relief

Does anyone know anything about this organization? The aims and goals are so obviously beneficial to the Soviet Union, I do wonder if there was any direct or indirect ties between them. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there were. It was a communist front organisation. Saville Sax was recruited through the Russian War Relief and acted as a courier for Theodore Hall, a Soviet spy in the Manhattan Project's Los Alamos Laboratory. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:01, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

If it's a USSR front organization, then that should be mentioned in the article because that's currently missing from the article. The organization has come up recently in the news since Charlie Chaplin gave a speech at one of their meetings in 1942. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Encounters with persistent Vietnam-based IP editor on tank design topics

After checking some recent edits and going through article histories, I noticed frequent, anonymous edits (mostly geolocated to Bắc Giang, Vietnam) that have added near-identical material to several related articles.

• Jack-in-the-box effect: diff 1, diff 2, diff 3, diff 4, diff 5, diff 6, diff 7, diff 8, diff 9, diff 10
• M109 howitzer: diff
• M1 Abrams: diff 1, diff 2, diff 3, diff 4, diff 5, diff 6, diff 7, diff 8
• Leopard 2: diff 1, [diff 2, diff 3, diff 4
• Challenger 2: diff 1, diff 2, diff 3, diff 4, diff 5, diff 6
• Stridsvagn 122: diff 1,
• 9M133 Kornet: diff 1, diff 2, diff 3, diff 4, diff 5, diff 6, diff 7, diff 8, diff 9, diff 10, diff 11, diff 12, diff 13, diff 14, diff 15, diff 16, diff 17, diff 18, diff 19, diff 20, diff 21, diff 22, diff 23

IPs used:

• 1.54.214.229
• 14.191.8.19
• 14.191.9.50
• 14.244.98.205
• 27.3.144.143 (blocked for sockpuppetry)
• 27.3.160.28
• 27.73.64.74 (blocked for block evasion)
• 27.73.64.162
• 27.73.78.67
• 27.73.80.122
• 103.3.255.99
• 113.165.166.131
• 116.98.124.124
• 116.101.196.140
• 116.110.110.20
• 117.7.110.182
• 123.18.99.55
• 171.224.139.129
• 171.234.171.65
• 171.238.230.193
• 171.242.240.146
• 171.242.242.178 (warned for IP-hopping)
• 2001:EE0:4A60:2490:6C6A:FF06:55A9:E868
• 2001:EE0:4A60:A450:7849:67E0:D14B:2309
• 2001:EE0:4A61:2050:ACC4:D69A:787:52D3
• 2001:EE0:4A61:5530:92C:D607:5412:D2C8
• 2001:EE0:4A61:9990:58F1:B418:9643:32BB
• 2001:EE0:4A61:99F0:15AA:97FA:3C49:C7C8
• 2001:EE0:4A62:6B50:114:8D4E:8F30:5CD4
• 2001:EE0:4A62:7A00:3D88:1FDA:B435:E0BA
• 2001:EE0:4A63:FD40:D115:D8E5:B307:E3DE
• 2001:EE0:4A63:FD40:FD33:BAA8:3BD3:64AA
• 2402:800:6130:F555:A576:A1A9:3752:DE0E

These edits have some common characteristics: they cite speculative or unreliable sources, falsify a cited source, inject discussion of logistics and cost-effectiveness into a discussion about vulnerability to ammunition cook-off, or make claims about Western tank designs that are either unsourced or close to tautologically obvious. The net effect on the article is also similar: the relative vulnerability of Soviet/Russian tanks to catastrophic ammunition explosions, as compared to Western tanks, is minimized or justified in terms of design trade-offs; the effectiveness of the 9M133 Kornet anti-tank missile and other Soviet/Russian weapons is emphasized. (Another trait of the editor(s) in question is edits to Recognition of same-sex unions in Vietnam and articles on battles involving Soviet forces in World War II.) To be clear, I think an analysis of tank design choices would be good to have on this encyclopedia, but it would need to be properly sourced and appropriately placed, instead of being spammed across multiple articles. As far as I can tell, members of this project, including me, have either reverted or pared down these edits wherever we have found them. Who else has encountered this, and has anyone tried to reach out to the editor(s) involved, to discuss how their contributions could be improved? Huntthetroll (talk) 23:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Since two of these IPs have been blocked for sockpuppetry and this person has been falsifying sources and adding speculative, unreliable and POV text, perhaps an administrator should look at this. @Drmies:, @Oshwah:, @BusterD:, @Pickersgill-Cunliffe:. Donner60 (talk) 00:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

PQ and QP convoys coordinates question

I haven't added coordinates for the recent revision and expansions I've undertaken and wonder if anyone can suggest a generic one for the route. Murmansk might suit but it is the terminus, perhaps it would be better to pick somewhere half-way there? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 10:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Off hand I would have thought that adding any single pair of coordinates would be misleading. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:30, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

I fear so. Keith-264 (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Both ends? Keith-264 (talk) 07:49, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

You could find the route off-wiki (eg google Earth KML) and link to that but coords of a single location or start and finish aren't really helpful. You have maps in the articles? they do a better job. In fact, I've reverted the addition to PQ1 as not helpful. The only guidance I've seen says " Coordinates should [also] be added to articles about events that are associated with a single location" GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:45, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Battle of the Bay of Biscay coords question

I worked out the coordinates of the engagement then found that it was in Slovenia, rather than the Bay of Biscay.... Does anyone know where I can get the real coords? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 17:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

War Monthly, Volumes 34-45, 1976, {p. 6) has a "snippet view" which says: "T25 and T26 sunk Glasgow & Enterprise 45° N 12° W", which is not actually in the Bay of Biscay but a bit further out to the NW of Corunna. Alansplodge (talk) 18:45, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 21:05, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Umberto I of Italy#Requested move 9 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Umberto I of Italy#Requested move 9 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Anti-submarine ballistic artillery - more eyes requested after an undiscussed page move

Are rocket projectiles (as well as mortars) 'ballistic artillery'?

See Talk:Anti-submarine ballistic artillery#Undiscussed page move Andy Dingley (talk) 13:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Policy on cited sources for Background section of on-going armed conflict

Is it against Wikipedia policy or standard practice to cite sources providing background information for an on-going armed conflict, published before the start of the conflict? See the Talk and text-search for "outdated sources" to jump to the relevant part of the discussion. Chino-Catane (talk) 21:53, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Battle for Border Post 9631: investigating an obscure battle

After finding links to this non-existent but extremely specific article added by an anonymous editor from Istanbul, I tried to find reliable sources that could confirm the events of the battle, which allegedly occurred in February 2001 on the border between Burma and Thailand. Here is what I found in English-language Google and Wiki searches:

1. Our articles on Royal Thai Army Rangers, Naresuan 261, Task Force 90 (Thailand), the Royal Thai Air Force, the Myanmar Air Force, the Royal Thai Army Special Warfare Command, and a List of equipment of the Myanmar Army mention this battle by name, while our article on Myanmar-Thailand relations links to a copy of a June 2001 article from Kyodo News International that refers to clashes in early 2001.
2. Articles from The Guardian ([1]) and CNN ([2],[3]) confirm that there were Burmese-Thai border clashes in February 2001, in which Myanmar Army soldiers seized a Royal Thai Army border post and a Thai counterattack recaptured it, and that the two sides gave differing accounts of the battle. These sources also mention that the Burmese-Thai clash was a consequence of [Myanmar confict|fighting] between the Myanmar Army and the Shan State Army, one of numerous ethnic minority militias within Myanmar/Burma.
3. An article in the journal Asian Survey and an article in International Relations of the Asia-Pacific mention the clashes but require JSTOR access to read.
4. An article from the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, an Indian think tank, briefly describes the battle, mentioning that the Thai border post was located near a settlement called Ban Pang Noon.
5. An opinion piece from The Japan Times also locates the battle near Ban Pang Noon but cannot be read in its entirety without a subscription. Another account that dates and locates the battle was submitted to the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization in February 2001 by Sai Myo Win, General Secretary of the Shan Democratic Union. This article in The Irrawaddy also describes the battle in some detail. Finally, I found an article, published by the International Boundaries Research Unit in the spring 2001 issue of the IBRU Boundary and Security Bulletin, that explicitly identifies the objective of the battle (according to the Thai government) as "Thai Army Rangers’ Base Number 9631, near Ban Pang Noon, in Chiang Rai’s Mae Pah Luang district".
6. An exact-text search for "border post 9631" brings up two different blog posts and several forum posts ([4],[5],[6],[7]) that discuss the battle, none of which qualify as reliable sources. However, the blog posts are extremely detailed; one directly translates the dueling accounts of the Thai and Burmese militaries.
7. The archive of the reg.burma mailing list at burmalibrary.org has an extensive collection of news, analysis and commentary from the time, including a full version of the Japan Times piece mentioned earlier.
8. As for non-English sources, there is a detailed article on Thai Wikipedia at th:กรณีพิพาทกู่เต็งนาโย่ง, along with other Thai sources that can be found by searching for "ด่านชายแดน 9631". Burmese-language sources might be found by searching for "နယ်ခြားမှတ်တိုင် ၉၆၃၁" or "နယ်ခြားမှတ်တိုင် 9631", although I think that the Myanmar Army has a different name for the battle (maybe "Hill O-7", as translated here. I can't speak or read a word of either language, but machine translation suggests that the sources for the th-wiki article could be useful. There is also a Norwegian Wikipedia article at no:Den thailandsk-burmesiske grensekonflikten i 2001, an article in Swedish at thailandshistoria.se, and a blog post in Dutch at thailandblog.nl.

Based on these findings, I think that there is enough information for an article, but it should be called something like 2001 Myanmar-Thailand border clashes, because there were more episodes of fighting than just the battle for this specific outpost. Huntthetroll (talk) 22:45, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Our articles on the military forces of those (and most other South East Asian) countries tend to be low quality and often include hoax material, so I wouldn't give any weight to the Wikipedia redlinks or Wikipedias in other languages here. Nick-D (talk) 01:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I thought that it might be a hoax too, which is why I spent some time determining if there were any independent, reliable sources that could verify that it happened. It seems to have been a real event that received international attention, just not one that merits such a hyper-specific title. An actual article on it would obviously have to draw on the news and journal articles that I linked, as well as other reliable sources if such could be found. Huntthetroll (talk) 02:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Hermann Göring has an RfC

Hermann Göring has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Emiya1980 (talk) 19:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Anthony J. Bryant desperately needs sources.

I have been trying to improve the Anthony J. Bryant page and am struggling to find reliable secondary sources for informaiton about him. As it stands, much of the article is derivative of his obituary. I improved it in what ways I could, but I have also flagged it for notability. If anyone wishes to collaborate and help research, I'd appreciate it. He has written a number of books, and maintained a personal website, and served as a historical consultant for an episode of a BBC Television program but outside of that I have been having trouble locating information about him, I cannot even find a biography of him from his publisher that we could utilize. Chrhns (talk) 04:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)