Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 April 21

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April 21

Lynvoya Jackson

Are there any primary source accounts of Lyncoya by contemporary of Andrew Jackson's or Jackson himself? Can anybody find the letter he wrote to his wife about how he felt "unusual sympathy" for the child?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:44, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Partial answer: I've put in a request for you at the resource exchange to see if we can find that book's source for the quote. 184.147.128.57 (talk) 15:51, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Nae Ionescu

Hi. My query is about the second name of Nae Ionescu. In the article of Wikipedia his name appears as "Nicolae C. Ionescu". Which was that second name that began with "c"? Daniel. April 21,2016. 83.51.245.163 (talk) 06:24, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@83.51.245.163: "Cristache" according to this (sourced to Miruna Lepus, Nae Ionescu sau implinirea prin tineri, p. 34). —Nizolan ^(talk) 08:00, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Middle name.
Sleigh (talk) 08:54, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Indigenous Communities and Negative Effects of Resource Extraction

Hello,

I've been reading a number of articles here on Wikipedia about indigenous communities (e.g. North and South America, Australia, New Zealand) and the various issues they face in the 21st century. In particular, I've seen references, in passing, to efforts at compensating and managing the negative effects of forestry, mining, and hydroelectric operations (in regards to indigenous communities in and around these operations). That being said, I've had a hard time finding any materials that provide any sort of details - e.g. if a mining operation poisons the water supply near a reservation, how has the government compensated the effected group(s)? (Monetary amounts being a specific metric.) Are there articles on Wikipedia, studies, websites, etc, that provide details? Where should I look? Thank you. AKWells (talk) 10:08, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to give refs only for USA, because I know even less about the other areas :) Here's a Standford Law Review article that discusses many prior legal cases [1], some involving restitution. Here is another overview of [2] how the USA feds have legally interacted with native tribes. Here's [3] an article for superfund sites on tribal land. For WP, some places to start searching might include List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases_involving_Indian_tribes, American_Indian_Defense_Association, and Native_American_civil_rights. One thing to keep in mind: these days, it often goes the other way. Meaning instead of state or fed govt. paying natives because we messed up their land, now some large corporations are paying tons of money to tribes so that the corp. may use the tribe's rights to water and other resources. For this, see e.g. Nestlé#Water_bottling_operations_in_California_and_Oregon or google things like /Nestle water tribe controversy/. Hope that helps. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:25, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

One important factor is the nature of the resource to be extracted. Some resources, like petroleum, can be extracted with a minimal workforce over the course of a few years, and are nonrenewable. Native communities tend not to do well in such cases, where the government and corporations may pay them something while there, but soon abandon the area after the resource is used up, often leaving polluted land and water behind. Renewable resources, on the other hand, like soil good for growing crops, can be used for centuries if properly managed, and require a larger workforce to fully utilize. This tends to help the natives economically, over a long time period. Another consideration is that sudden wealth, in the form of a one-time payment, tends to cause problems among those not used to having money, whereas a slow but steady income helps them out more. StuRat (talk) 15:33, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Here are some references for Canada. Attawapiskat_First_Nation#Mining. First Nations Oil and Gas and Moneys Management Act. Assembly of First Nations info page on water. First Nations bear the risks of oilsands development. Supreme Court of Canada Cases Involving Indigenous Peoples. 184.147.128.57 (talk) 15:42, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

See Category:Environmental justice.—Wavelength (talk) 17:22, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

See http://www.dmoz.org/search?q=environmental+racism.

—Wavelength (talk) 18:06, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Violet Piercy

According to this 2015 book, Violet Piercy was still alive in that year, which would make her 126 years old at the time (well beyond the oldest person Jeanne Calment). Oxford Dictionary of National Biography also implies she was alive as of 2012 (making her 123 years old at the time). Maybe her death just went unnoticed at some point? Brandmeister^talk 14:25, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

According to this running blog:- "... the story has an even sadder ending. The newly-gathered evidence suggests that an elderly woman of no fixed address who died in a London hospital in April 1972 was the once-famous Violet Piercy. She had suffered a brain haemorrhage, hypertension and chronic kidney-related infection. The death certificate mistakenly gave her surname as Pearson, which ruled out any chance of her being immediately recognised as the former celebrity runner... well-known novelist Peter Lovesey has written at length about her in Track Stats magazine." Alansplodge (talk) 15:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, good find. Brandmeister^talk 15:58, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

The magazine article in question is: The forgotten first lady: rediscovering Violet Piercy, marathon pioneer by Peter Lovesey in Track Stats, Volume 52, No. 4, December 2014. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be viewable online. Alansplodge (talk) 17:16, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Other than the Germans and the Jews, exactly which other ethnic groups immigrated *by the millions* to their/their ancestors' original homeland?

Any thoughts on this? Futurist110 (talk) 20:43, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Possibly the people we now call Native Americans who may have immigrated to North America across the Bering Land Bridge. But I'm not sure about *by the millions*.

That doesn't really fit my "homeland" criteria, though. Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

And I have to question "The Germans" in your title: can you please tell me more about that because I was always under the impression that the Germans originated from the tribes to the East of the Rhine, who were never conquered by the Romans, and who never migrated anywhere? --TammyMoet (talk) 20:55, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Please look up the Medieval Ostsiedlung along with the reversal of the Medieval Ostsiedlung in the form of massive immigration (sometimes voluntary, and sometimes involuntary) of ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe to Germany from 1939 all of the way up to the present day (2016). Indeed, there is certainly a reason that most Transylvanian Saxons, Baltic Germans, Banat Germans, Volga Germans, et cetera currently live in Germany rather than in Eastern Europe. Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

I think the OP means returned to a "homeland" - Israel for Jews- post WWII (or traditionally, from exile in Egypt or Babylon) & the post WWII population movements for Germans.

Yes; correct! Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Those who returned from the Italian diaspora & probably others like the Irish diaspora qualify. The Population exchange between Greece and Turkey after WWI was similar to the post WWII. one.

Did these people number in the *millions,* though? Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, for Italy - Greece & Turkey was about a million each way. See the articles. John Z (talk) 01:05, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Articles and categories on diasporas and on Population transfer should give other examples, often associated with catastrophes or wars, like the huge movements associated with the Partition of India. Sometimes of course, the homeland status or association of the people moving was tenuous or imaginary.John Z (talk) 22:55, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

OK. Also, though, do you have any other quick examples off of the top of your head before I myself research this topic further? Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Those were all that came to mind immediately. But anybody whatsoever moving to Africa - surely in the millions over the years - would qualify. :-)John Z (talk) 01:05, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Liberia had thousands of by ex-slaves returning to Africa from the US. Far short of millions, though. StuRat (talk) 03:15, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

The Bantu expansion probably passed through some of the original homelands of all of humanity's ancestors. Ian.thomson (talk) 03:59, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Unless the last common ancestor of Bantu and (say) Polynesians was in Ethiopia. —Tamfang (talk) 08:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Though there were common ancestors prior to that, especially if we don't limit ourselves to H. Sapiens. Ian.thomson (talk) 08:56, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

There's also African-American settlement in Africa, although the article doesn't make clear what kind of numbers were involved. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:42, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

• Do we have any statistics on how many Englishmen returned to England after various parts of the British Empire gained independence? Same for the French? Blueboar (talk) 13:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps the OP is referring to East Germans returning to the former East Germany after German reunification, though I question "millions". Other examples from List of diasporas include Estonians returning from Siberia after independence in 1991 and South Africans in recent years. Futurist, if you google "diaspora return" you'll find more, including an entire book on the subject. 184.147.128.57 (talk) 21:33, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

About the French abandoning the colonies and returning to France: extract from the article Pied-Noir : "The number of Pied-Noirs who fled Algeria totaled more than 800,000 between 1962 and 1964". so not quite millions

That is just Algeria - add in the rest of the French colonies and you will almost certainly pass the million. British returnees would not reach such a level - most of the British colonies of settlement have retained their white populations (which were much smaller than the French ones anyway). 81.132.106.10 (talk) 13:27, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Dunno about that - there's a few white people in Canada, Australia and New Zealand (not sure we want them back though). Alansplodge (talk) 22:02, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Also see another case: Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey --Lgriot (talk) 20:59, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Laws and court cases regarding automobile rims

I'm looking for any information on laws or court cases involving a certain type of Rim_(wheel). They are variously called swangas, "pokes", "elbows", and many other slang terms that we don't seem to have coverage for on WP. So here [4] is a pretty good example, google image search [5] has many more. Here [6] is some indication that they are not currently illegal in TX, but it's not very reliable.

My questions are:

1. Are there any not-theft-related court cases in any jurisdiction involving this kind of rim?
2. Has any jurisdiction explicitly banned them?
3. Are there any relevant current laws in any jurisdiction that would seem to cover large protrusions from a motor vehicle?

Thanks for any references, SemanticMantis (talk) 21:37, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

A quick Google suggests that it is widely believed in the UK that no part of the wheel is allowed to extend past the wheel arches. [7] A thread on a British police forum suggests that this is not strictly true, but is the usual interpretation used by the police of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 "(3) No motor vehicle or trailer shall be used for any purpose for which it is so unsuitable as to cause or be likely to cause danger or nuisance to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road."

Good luck trying to argue that these aren't "likely to cause danger or nuisance" especially to cyclists and pedestrians. I've never seen these on a British road. Alansplodge (talk) 22:13, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Further to that, this forum reports the regulations used to assess the roadworthiness of kit cars and similar: "Section 18: External Projections: 2. There shall be no other feature on the external surface of the vehicle likely to increase the risk or seriousness of injury to any person who could come into contact with the vehicle... (d) wheels, if there are no pointed or sharp features which projects beyond the external plane of the wheel rim, no wing nuts are fitted and there are no projections beyond the vehicle body plan form apart from tyres and wheel discs, (including central wheel securing nuts) if the latter have a radius of curvature of not less than 30mm and do not project by more than 30mm beyond the vehicle body plan form". Alansplodge (talk) 22:30, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

A quick internet search suggests that they are common in TX (that is, something you see once every day). See [8].

For the original (back then legal) version: Scythed chariot. Llaanngg (talk) 22:33, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @Alansplodge: and @Llaanngg:. I (un)fortunately live in Texas, and like to cycle and walk, and I see these with some frequency (and avoid proximity at all costs). I am indeed often reminded of Scythed chariots! Still interested if anyone has info for any other jurisdictions, though it the popularity may be more limited than I realized. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:39, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Are you referring to Spinners? LongHairedFop (talk) 21:09, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

No, these things. Alansplodge (talk) 00:47, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Note that if you put those on an already wide vehicle, you may exceed limits on vehicle width. StuRat (talk) 01:27, 23 April 2016 (UTC)