User talk:Kerry Raymond/Archive 10

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A kitten for you!

Thanks for updating the links in the Mount Isa Mines page.

ChrisFountain (talk) 05:40, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

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Sydney Harbour Naval Precinct

Hi there. I'm creating Sydney Harbour Naval Precinct based on the NSW SHR auto-generator. I notice it's also listed on the CHL. Have you auto-generated content from the CHL, as I could merge the two. It's a potentially messy article as there are heritage-listed items located within the Commonwealth Heritage Listed site, namely:

• Buildings 31 and 32 Endeavour Rd North Garden Island, NSW, Australia
• Chain and Anchor Store (former) West Rd Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Listed place)
• Factory West Rd Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Listed place)
• Garden Island - Captain Cook Dock Precinct Cowper Wharf Rd Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Indicative Place)
• Garden Island Precinct Cowper Wharf Rd Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Listed place)
• Naval Store Return Stores La Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Listed place)
• Office Building Office Sq Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Listed place)
• Residences Group Hill Rd Garden Island, NSW, Australia (Listed place)
• Rigging Shed and Chapel Riggers La

There is a lot of content at Garden Island (New South Wales), too. Rangasyd (talk) 09:05, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I have drafts for the CHL sites in NSW. I am uploading them to Google Drive for you (will let you know when that's done). Note though, that User:The Drover's Wife also has these drafts, so don't get under one another's feet. Kerry (talk) 09:13, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

@Rangasyd: They should be available on Google Drive for you now. Let me know if there is any problem. Kerry (talk) 09:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

This is another one I initially avoided doing for a reason! (On top of your list, Garden Island itself is also listed on the CHL separately to the Garden Island Precinct). Firstly, I would merge Sydney Harbour Naval Precinct in the SHR and Garden Island Precinct. For once, the SHR seems to have the better content, so I'd probably start with that and merge anything else useful from the CHL (which, unusually for the CHL, mightn't be that much). I'd also suggest maybe creating it at Garden Island Naval Precinct, because "Sydney Harbour Naval Precinct" is stupid (Cockatoo Island was a naval dockyard as well) and "Garden Island Precinct" is indescipherably vague when there's overlapping articles. It would also be useful to do a very selective merge of "Garden Island" in the CHL with our main Garden Island one too.

In terms of the individual buildings, Kerry and I edit conflicted - but as she said, I've got all the autogenerated articles already. I'm very happy to either do them all or split them, whether you want to do it now and get it over with or wait until we've knocked over the SHR. It'll be useful to have these - I went searching for the Captain Cook Graving Dock in the CHL to create it to fill redlinks the other day and couldn't find the bloody thing. I think the only one that's actually complex is the overall precinct one. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:21, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Made a start on merging content. The Captain Cook Graving Dock is relatively important, but you could include content in Garden Island Naval Precinct and redirect the redlink to the section within that article. The Barnet buildings are unique and important, but not so much that they deserve their own article. Just give me a few mins to clean up and fix. Rangasyd (talk) 09:34, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

I hadn't seen this message and did a big edit, but I replaced the handful of edits that edit conflicted and am done if there's any more. I'm not keen on merging any of the individually CHL-listed buildings into the main as they've all got enough for their own articles. We could always go to a Buildings of the Garden Island Naval Precinct or something similar and throw in the RNE if you really wanted, but as we've discovered from past experience trying to match military buildings that change uses and names can be a royal pain in the arse and I'm not too keen. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:23, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Sorry about that. We're too quick for each other. I hear you re individual articles and agree that there is enough content from the CHL for stand alone articles. I think that they should link back to Garden Island Naval Precinct and not establish a new article. You can see how I've started this with the Garden Island Naval Chapel. If we follow that model and link the CHL articles back to the Precinct article we should be fine. Rangasyd (talk) 11:41, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

This conversation moved to Talk:Garden Island Naval Precinct for ongoing maintenance and input. Please do not add any further content to this article. With thanks. Rangasyd (talk) 12:26, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Editing News #2—2018

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Did you know?

Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Tap on the pencil icon to start editing. The page will probably open in the wikitext editor.

You will see another pencil icon in the toolbar. Tap on that pencil icon to the switch between visual editing and wikitext editing.

Remember to publish your changes when you're done.

You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has wrapped up most of their work on the 2017 wikitext editor and the visual diff tool. The team has begun investigating the needs of editors who use mobile devices. Their work board is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are fixing bugs and improving mobile editing.

Recent changes

• The Editing team has published an initial report about mobile editing.
• The Editing team has begun a design study of visual editing on the mobile website. New editors have trouble doing basic tasks on a smartphone, such as adding links to Wikipedia articles. You can read the report.
• The Reading team is working on a separate mobile-based contributions project.
• The 2006 wikitext editor is no longer supported. If you used that toolbar, then you will no longer see any toolbar. You may choose another editing tool in your editing preferences, local gadgets, or beta features.
• The Editing team described the history and status of VisualEditor in this recorded public presentation (starting at 29 minutes, 30 seconds).
• The Language team released a new version of Content Translation (CX2) last month, on International Translation Day. It integrates the visual editor to support templates, tables, and images. It also produces better wikitext when the translated article is published. [1]

Let's work together

• The Editing team wants to improve visual editing on the mobile website. Please read their ideas and tell the team what you think would help editors who use the mobile site.
• The Community Wishlist Survey begins next week.
• If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly. We will notify you when the next issue is ready for translation. Thank you!

— Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:12, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

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Thanks for the award

I'm glad that you liked the fact that I have been adding some photos. I responded to a commons project to add images to NSW heritage listings. I live in Sydney. It gets me outside to wander around the city on public transport finding the relevant heritage items.

You might like to check out my user page. When I read yours I was inspired to put something on mine.

Collywolly (talk) 22:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Growth team updates #3

Welcome to the third newsletter for the new Growth team!  

The Growth team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in mid-size Wikimedia projects.

Two Growth team projects to be deployed in next two weeks

We will be deploying the "Understanding first day" and "Personalized first day" projects on Czech and Korean Wikipedias in the coming weeks. See the new project pages below for full details on the projects, and our project updates page for their progress.

• Understanding first day: learn about the actions new editors take right after creating their accounts. We will be careful with user privacy, and we hope to share initial results in December.
• Personalized first day: learn about new editors' objectives by adding some optional questions to the new editor’s registration process, and personalizing their onboarding. We hope to share initial results in December.

Third Growth team project begins

• Focus on help desk: direct newcomers to the local help desks where they can ask questions to help them make their first edits. We hope to have an initial experiment running in December.

Best practices for helping newcomers

We are going to direct newcomers to help desks. But what's the best way to reply to a newcomer there? We have gathered some best practices for successful interactions, based on community experiences and some external documentation. The page has also been reviewed by some experienced community members who suggested some changes. That page is now open for translations. Comments and suggestions are still welcome!

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Annastacia Palaszczuk identifies as a Jewish-Australian

You recently undid an unsourced edit. Here's the reference — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.2.132.157 (talk) 04:07, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

@14.2.132.157: I am afraid I don’t see anything in this that says the Palaszczuk family were Jewish, but it does say on a number of occasions that they are Catholics, which is how Annastacia Palaszczuk has described her family background on numerous occasions (it came up again recently in the abortion debate). It wasn’t just Jewish people that the Nazis put in their concentration camps. Kerry (talk) 04:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Wet Tropics, Lake Barrine and Multitude of Other Queensland Place based edits

		The Original Barnstar
		Just wanted to say that I have been seeing your edits everywhere .. and you seem to being very thorough and your work is being appreciated Bruceanthro (talk) 06:48, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Willandra Lakes

Thanks for commenting (and researching). It’s nice to get a response; even though I still don’t know the answer(s). MBG02 (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Re: Talk:Willandra Lakes Region I wasn’t prompting for more info; I was just saying it was nice to know I’m not “typing into a void” (but I still wanna know). Your typing has Williandra (but link works). Article still has Pringle.

NB: I know (almost) nothing; I couldn’t write about this... or anything. MBG02 (talk) 02:17, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

I changed Williandra NP to Willandra NP. MBG02 (talk) 06:55, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Kerry Raymond. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Re: Commonwealth Police edit

Hi Kerry,

This is the poster of the edit for the "Commonwealth Police" article - specifically, the edit that included the first director (Harold Jones) of the CIB's single-minded focus on left-wing subversion. IIRC, I cited the source - Andrew Moore's "The Right Road? A History of Right-wing Politics in Australia", published 1995 by Oxford University Press Australia, in Melbourne. Specifically, p. 27 of same, where Dr. Moore describes the CIB's first incarnation as "indulging...in a 'fantastic obsession'" with left-wing subversive activity - or hints of it. Dr. Moore then goes on to note the CIB's starring role in forming a variety of right-wing militias, such as the Old Guard and others, to counter the spectre of a Communist revolution which never materialised.

As his (unedited) Wikipedia page shows, Dr. Moore is recognized worldwide as a leading expert in the historiography of Australian right-wing politics, and has taught at four separate universities courses relating to Australian politics and/or history. I fail to see how a book written by Dr. Moore, on the topic of right-wing politics (his academic specialization), is *not* a "reliable source" when it comes to identifying right-wing biases in the way key historical Australian civil servants performed their duties. Could you please explain why you removed the insertion?

- MC

EDIT: Having found the archived change, you were quite right - I failed to cite my source, as I did with a couple of other edits earlier today. My bad; I'll put the source in when re-adding the CIB history snippet, if that's OK by you.

EDIT 2: Having re-read the section on Harold Jones' focus, I've also re-worded it to be more precisely in line with what Dr. Moore stated was the case. I acknowledge that my earlier wording was overly-broad; the CIB was not focused on "suppressing" potential left-wing subversives, but on monitoring and making sure they *could* suppress them if called upon to do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.69.48.168 (talk) 15:39, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

20/11/18: "MC" here - I'd forgotten my password, and didn't bother retrieving it. Thanks for the message, but I thought the page number was already in the citation line - p.27, to be precise. I filled in the details - including page number - from the "cite a book" template; did I do something wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chalcedonian (talk • contribs) 07:22, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

@Chalcedonian: Sorry, I think I noticed that the 2nd citation of Moore didn't have a page number and assumed that the first citation didn't either. And, as someone who sees a lot of vandalism and inadequated cited and highly opinionated commentary go into articles (often from new or anonymous contributors), it leads to a natural suspicion about the motives behind changes made by such accounts. It is a very good idea to create an account as you have done as that enables you to build up a positive reputation as a contributor. I hope you stick around and contribute more. It is a very worthwhile thing to do, but it does have a bit of a learning curve in terms of both the "how-to" and our policies etc. Please don't hesitate me if you need help. Kerry (talk) 20:42, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 December 2018

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About User:Bdebono/Henry Stone (Australia)

Hi Kerry,
This sandbox of someone who only made two edits is up for WP:G13 deletion.
If it has already been deleted:

• NLA catalogue item

While nothing leaps out at me and says "notable! must not be deleted!", I thought it would be helpful to let you know about this.
Pete "there's a law faculty at QUT?" aka --Shirt58 (talk) 08:51, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Serenity Forge has been accepted

Serenity Forge, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

• If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
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Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Kerry (talk) 23:11, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Growth team updates #4

Welcome to the fourth newsletter for the new Growth team!  

The Growth team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in mid-size Wikimedia projects.

We need your feedback!

We have two requests for community members:

1. Now that data is coming in for the welcome survey, we are planning how to use that data to personalize the newcomer's first day. See our current thoughts here, and join the conversation here.
2. Try out the help panel's interactive prototype, and read about how we're planning to roll it out, and post any thoughts or reactions here.

Two Growth team projects have been deployed (detailed updates here)

• Personalized first day (welcome survey) was deployed on November 20 on both Czech and Korean Wikipedias.
  • The survey is now being shown to half of new users (A/B test). Responses are being recorded in the database. We'll report on initial results during December.
  • We are planning to test a second version of the survey, called "Variation C", which we think will maximize the number of users who complete the survey and stay on the wiki.
  • The original objective of this project was to give newcomers the materials they need to achieve their goals, and so now we are currently planning how we will use the information collected in the welcome survey to personalize the newcomer's experience. We hope community members will read our current thinking and join the conversation here. Some of the plans we are considering include:
    • Making it easy for newcomers to see editing activity around the topic areas in which they indicated that they're interested.
    • Connecting interested newcomers to experienced editors.
    • Surfacing the help content most relevant to the reason for which the newcomers created their accounts.

• Understanding first day (EditorJourney) was deployed on November 15 on both Czech and Korean Wikipedias. It has been done after a longer security review and final testing than expected. Data is now being recorded for all new users on those wikis, and we've been auditing the data and preparing to make initial reports during December. Stay tuned for the next newsletter!

Help panel is under construction

• Focus on help desk (help panel) is planned to be deployed during the week of January 7 on both Czech and Korean Wikipedias.
• This interactive prototype is the best way to see the design and wording in the feature.
• We ran live user tests on the prototype, with results posted here.
• In addition to giving the ability to ask a question, the help panel will also contain a set of links to existing help content. Our ambassadors on Czech and Korean Wikipedias are determining the right initial set of most helpful links in this task.
• We encourage community members to try out the prototype and read about the rules for who will get the feature, and add any thoughts to this discussion.

We are still looking for volunteers

Do you want to participate to our experiments? We are looking for new communities to work with us (especially a new mid-size wiki), and people to become ambassadors to help us to communicate with the different communities. Discover how you can involve yourself or your community.

Also, please share this update with your community and interested people!

Learn more about us

You can visit our team page to find out why our team was formed and how we are thinking about new editors, and our project updates page for detailed updates on the projects we work on.

Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot, 09:31, 7 December 2018 (UTC) • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

Weighing in on Growth team work

Hi Kerry Raymond -- thank you for weighing in when the Growth team was discussing ideas on what we would build. Your wisdom on the newcomer's experience was a huge help in our planning. We've made a lot of progress in the last few months, and we're hoping you could take a look at some of our current work and post any thoughts you have. We're working on a "help panel" (comments can go here), and on the next steps for the "Personalized first day" project (comments can go here). Thank you for any time you can give! -- MMiller (WMF) (talk) 22:07, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

dummy edits

they aren't necessary MOS:PUNCTSPACE, if you're going to be fixing something, go ahead, but don't be spending time looking for this thing to be done, it's like looking for em-dashes inside templates that already output correctly Dave Rave (talk) 09:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

These are all generated articles (for which I wrote the generator) which have some flaws in relation to excessive spaces (which are difficult to prevent during generation). I'm not targetting articles more generally, just the ones for which I feel I have some responsibility. It's a once-off exercise. Kerry (talk) 09:05, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Brisbane Tranport

As you may have noticed, I have tried to update various Brisbane railway stations with out of date transport links. The more I am doing, the more I find information that is out of date. Information regarding train timetables which I am mainly working on is fairly easy to update but will need to be maintained in the future which will not be easy unless someone else takes this on at some time. Information regarding bus timetables is totally out of date and will also be hard to maintain. Both Sydney and Melbourne have a different approach where the timetable links go to a page in their transport site where the link does not change but where the URL for the new timetable within that page changes when a new timetables is produced. Brisbane also has such pages which are currently not used in timetable links. An example of a train timetable link is say the Beenleigh line where the current reference to the timetable is but under the proposed change would be from which a link to the full timetable can be found at the bottom right hand corner but may be more difficult for the irregular user. It is much easier to find in this NSW equivalent. [2] As I am not aware of anyone else in Queensland who seems to have a current interest in this, I am seeking your advice on this.Fleet Lists (talk) 06:41, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Fleet Lists: I had indeed noticed your efforts. I am not someone interested in transport timetables (I am more interested in the the history and geography aspects of transport) but I concur that there is a practical problem with including information in Wikipedia that needs frequent updating (and we just don't have the people power to maintain such information

<ref>{{Cite BrisbaneCityTrain|Beenleigh}}</ref>

produce the relevant citation based on whatever line name is used.

Once the hard work of putting this template call into all of the railway station articles is done, from then on, all one has to do is m). So I agree it would be better to use a more stable URL if one is available to reduce the update problem. But the other thing that occurs to me (correct me if I am wrong) is that you are putting the Beenleigh timetable URL into many railway station articles (all the ones on the Beenleigh line) and doing all of that for all the other railway lines. So I am wondering if it might be better to create a template and then make the citation odify the template *once* ( whenever the timetable for one or more of the lines changes their URL and then all the articles using that template will automatically switch to displaying the new URL. Would that be a better plan? It still involves modifying each railway station article to add the correct template call but it is easy-peasy to maintain things after that as it is just a change in the one template. The only reason to change the railway station articles would be if the line running through them changed (not a frequent occurence). What do you think of that idea? The template can either use either of the two URLs you describe above, whatever you prefer. Kerry (talk) 07:30, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank for your comments. We would need to expand the template to also cover bus timetables and possibly also cover the long distance train timetables. In fact in NSW we have such a template which saves a lot of maintenance work. But I dont think I have the skills myself at this stage to create such a template so I need to give that some more thought.Fleet Lists (talk) 07:53, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Fleet Lists: I am not a template expert but I can certainly make basic templates of this nature. I have created a template (just for 3 railway lines, but it's trivial to include the other ones once we are happy with what it produces). Take a look at User:Kerry Raymond/sandbox to see how you use the template to make the citations in a "typical" railway station article. Let me know what you think. We can do the same thing for TravelTrain and buses etc. Either with the same template or a different templates for each mode of transport or whatever. Kerry (talk) 07:58, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you again - that is fantastic. I have taken the liberty to add the Ipswich line to it and it seems to work OK. Before I use it in anger - possibly tomorrow - I may rename it to cover a wider range of timetables. Enough done today.Fleet Lists (talk) 08:25, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Solar eclipse 2030

Hi Kerry - re my sources for the Solar eclipse 2030. I have taken several projections from several sources all of which show the path of the total eclipse passing over the village of Hungerford, Qld. The area of totality is actually quiet wide compared to a civil parish and therefore taking the projected line of totality from the various totality maps I have superimposed that line and angle of totality onto several county maps stored with the NSW Land Titles department and NLA's trove database to determine the affected parishes.

In this I am probably guilty of original research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.62.147 (talk) 05:35, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@110.174.62.147: Well, if you identify the key sources you worked from, then your calculations (if what you are doing is somewhat mechanical in nature) aren't OR. Kerry (talk) 05:43, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Kerry - I have taken your edits for Hungerford and used that for the 10 or civil parish south of the Border. In regard to the issue of the date order used in Australia, I have use the American order as the specific text is a link to a wiki page with a name that uses the American date. So I will correct that. thankyou. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.62.147 (talk) 05:03, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Festive season

Have a happy and safe Christmas and new year - JarrahTree 00:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 22

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Einasleigh River, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Lyndhurst (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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The Signpost: 24 December 2018

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A barnstar for you!

I'm on the Wikipedia typo team and have noticed that over the past two or three months you have thanked me numerous times for correcting spelling errors. I took a look at your user page, which I admit is to get ideas for formatting my own page, and realized that all those articles had a connection to Australia. It took me a little while longer, but I realized that since you are so involved with spreading knowledge about your home country, you deserve this:

		The Australia Barnstar of National Merit
		For dedicating so much time to spread knowledge to the world via Wikipedia about the history, government, famous and not-so-famous people, and everything else Australian, and especially Queensland. Ira Leviton (talk) 15:56, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Holiday season

I started editing Wikipedia more frequently around this time last year. I can positively say that without the support and encouragement from a handful of Australians, who knows what I would be doing. Clicking the log out button and moving onto another hobby perhaps. Hope you have a Merry Christmas and a happy new year, Kerry! Nat965 (talk) 20:56, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Eacham, Queensland

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Eacham, Queensland requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Boleyn (talk) 08:03, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Sisters of St. Joseph of the Sacred Heart

You're welcome!

Wanting more information about the Hines family when they lived in Victoria near Apsley — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fovant Peronne (talk • contribs) 11:03, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

New to wikipedia

Hi Kerry, sorry for those edits. I am new and trying to learn. Wanted to make a few changes but yes will definitely cite the source next time for any updates or changes. Thanks Pawpatro107 (talk) 14:47, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

@Pawpatrol07: Hi there! There isn’t a problem with saying those suburbs were established as part of the Greater Springfield master-planned community. The problem is that you are changing the first paragraph and in particular the first sentence (which is where we define what this article is about) to replace the official local government area (City of Ipswich) with an unofficial real estate development name. If you look at Springfield, Queensland, you will see it starts with the statement that it is a suburb of the City of Ipswich, with a citation from the Queensland Government to support this fact. It then says in the History section that the suburb was developed was part of Greater Springfield development, again with a citation. So copying that pattern in the other suburbs’ articles would be fine, but replacing City of Ipswich with Greater Springfield isn’t. I’m always happy to help out newcomers so please feel free to ask. There’s plenty more that can be done to improve those articles with both text and photos, so please do get involved. Kerry (talk) 15:49, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

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Welcome back!

Good to have you back! I recently stumbled across another SHR article that was somehow missed: Mount St Mary Campus of the Australian Catholic University. Any chance we could get generated text for some of these? The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:00, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Help!

I still seem to be having trouble with archiving my talk page, and you were the one who had a go at fixing it last time it really needed archiving - any idea why it still isn't automatically archiving? I am hopeless at this stuff. The Drover's Wife (talk) 21:18, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

@The Drover's Wife: I had a look and tweaked it to be the same as mine. I think it is possible that the problem was that your Archive also contained instructions for archiving (this may have been my mistake when I set it up so I removed them). So give it a day or two and see if anything archives. If not, I think you need to seek help at User:Lowercase sigmabot III/Archive HowTo (as the setup we both have derives from info I copied from there). Kerry (talk) 21:33, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks heaps! The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Growth team updates #5

Welcome to the fifth newsletter for the new Growth team!  

The Growth team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in mid-size Wikimedia projects.

New projects for discussion

We began the "Personalized first day" project with the welcome survey so that we could gather information about what newcomers are trying to accomplish. The next step is to use that information to create experiences that help the newcomers accomplish their goal – actually personalizing their first day. We asked for community thoughts in the previous newsletter, and after discussing with community members and amongst our team, we are now planning two projects as next steps: "engagement emails" and "newcomer homepage".

• Engagement emails: this project was first discussed positively by community members here back in September 2018, and the team how has bandwidth to pursue it. The idea is that newcomers who leave the wiki don't get encouraged to return to the wiki and edit. We can engage them through emails that send them the specific information they need to be successful – such as contact from a mentor, the impact of their edits, or task recommendations. Please read over the project page, and comment on its discussion page with any ideas, questions, or concerns. Do you think this is a good idea? Where could we go wrong?
• Newcomer homepage: we developed the idea for this project after analyzing the data from the welcome survey and EditorJourney datasets. We saw that many newcomers seem to be looking for a place to get started – a place that collects their past work, options for future work, and ways to learn more. We can build this place, and it can connect to the engagement emails. The content of both could be guided by what newcomers say they need during their welcome survey, and contain things like contact from a mentor, impact of their edits, or task recommendations. Please read over the project page, and comment on its discussion page with any ideas, questions, or concerns. Do you think this is a good idea? Where could we go wrong?

Initial reports on newcomer activity

We have published initial reports on each of the team's first two projects. These reports give the basic numbers from each project, and there are many more questions we will continue to answer in future reports. We're excited about these initial findings. They have already helped us define and design parts of our future projects.

• Welcome survey: the initial report on welcome survey responses is available here. Some of the main findings:
  • Most users respond to the survey, giving it high response rates of 67% and 62% in Czech and Korean Wikipedias, respectively.
  • The survey does not cause newcomers to be less likely to edit.
  • The most common reason for creating an account in Korean Wikipedia is to read articles—not for editing—with 29% of Korean users giving that responses.
  • Large numbers of respondents said they are interested in being contacted to get help with editing: 36% in Czech and 53% in Korean.
• Understanding first day: the initial report on what newcomers do on their first day is available here. Some of the main findings:
  • Large numbers of users view help or policy pages on their first day: 42% in Czech and 28% in Korean.
  • Large numbers of users view their own User or User Talk page on their first day: 34% in Czech and 39% in Korean.
  • A majority of new users open an editor on their first day – but about a quarter of them do not go on to save an edit during that time.

Help panel deployment

The help panel was deployed in Czech and Korean Wikipedias on January 10. Over the past four weeks:

• About 400 newcomers in each wiki have seen the help panel button.
• About 20% of them open up the help panel.
• About 50% of those who open it up click on one of the links.
• About 5% of Czech users ask questions, and about 1% of Korean users ask questions.

We think that the 20% open rate and 50% click rate are strong numbers, showing that a lot of people are looking for help, and many want to help themselves by looking at help pages. The somewhat lower numbers of asking questions (especially in Korean Wikipedia) has caused us to consider new features to allow people to help themselves. We're going to be adding a search bar to the help panel next, which will allow users to type a search that only looks for pages in the Help and Wikipedia namespaces.

How to create a good feedback page?

What is the way to built a good help page? What blocks you when writing an help page? Your replies will help to create better help contents to newcomers, that would be used on Help panel.

Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot, 14:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC) • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

Anzac Memorial: Removed "heritage-listed" from first line

Hello Kerry - nice to connect in this immense world of Wikipedia. I'm fairly new to the space as a contributor however wanted to discuss context around removal of "heritage-listed" from the opening line of the Anzac Memorial article. The Memorial's Google My Business listing is pulling information from third-party sources to auto-include fields that vary in relevance to the Memorial itself, including from its Wikipedia page. Users are unable to update this information, even if they manage the business listing. You can see the listing by searching for "Anzac Memorial" on Google. The Google listing currently says "Designated as world heritage site 23 April 2010" however this is incorrect. The Memorial is listed on the NSW State Heritage Register, it is not on the UNESCO Register. It's my feeling that Google is reading "heritage-listed" in the first line of this article and as it can't tell the difference between state and global heritage, assumes the Memorial is a world heritage site. For comparison please note the article for the Sydney Opera House, which is a UNESCO world heritage site, but does not have "heritage-listed" in its opening line. It also does not have its world-heritage status in the Google My Business listing. Is having "heritage-listed" in the opening line a mandatory requirement or a stylistic preference? In the Memorial's case the end of the opening paragraph notes in fuller detail that the building is registered on the New South Wales state heritage register, so users are receiving the same information as they would by having the info in the opening line. The "heritage listed" detail, though small, is possibly affecting the accuracy of other public information about the Memorial because of Google's algorithm. But the only way we'll know this is to test this by removing the "heritage-listed" from the opening line. What are your thoughts on this? Jk.nickels (talk) 05:52, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

@Jk.nickels: OK there are a couple of things in play here. Firstly, the notability of these sites is based on their heritage-listed status, see Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features). And we are supposed to assert the notable aspects of something early in the lede paragraph, as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. So a random war memorial is not notable, a heritage-listed one is notable. Then we have consistency with literally thousands of other articles on the Category:New South Wales State Heritage Register and the Category:Queensland Heritage Register (and some other heritage registers) which pretty much all start with "Blah Blah Blah is a heritage-listed thingy in Some Town, Some Local Government Area, Some State, Australia". As for Google Knowledge (the tool you are talking about), its algorithms for extracting information from Wikipedia pages are its business and it's not our role to double-guess what they might be doing. If our information is correct and reliably cited in Wikipedia, we've done our job. I don't know if there is a way to give feedback to Google but that's the avenue to take if it is getting things wrong. Kerry (talk) 06:43, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Actually I see "suggest an edit" appears in the Google Knowledge box so you can tell them they got something wrong. Kerry (talk) 06:45, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

The other thing to bear in mind is that Google is personalised. When I search for "Anzac Memorial" on Google, I get information on ANZAC Square, Brisbane presented, presumably because I live in Brisbane, although it also incorrectly reports a world heritage listing that memorial doesn't have and I have reported that with "Suggest an edit". Kerry (talk) 06:51, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

@Kerry Raymond:Thanks for your reply Kerry. I have used GMB's "Suggest an edit" numerous times over the last 12 months to no avail I'm afraid, and I manage the Memorial's listing. Well aware Google serves results based on location but this is a slightly different issue. I have confirmed with the GMB team that heritage status is often sourced from Wiki, so it's not a double-guess so much as trying to manage misleading information generated by the algorithm. The lead paragraph of the Memorial article meets the requirements of the manual of style as the Memorial's full heritage status is noted in the third line of the lead paragraph. It seems that having heritage-listed in the opening line is a preference and given that there has been a huge project rolled out to standardise this preference, it's not really my intention to buck the trend! I agree the ball is in Google's court to make this kind of information editable by business owners and or to understand the nuances of heritage listings, but the issue does appear to be directly influenced by the opening line of the articles under the Category:New South Wales State Heritage Register and the Category:Queensland Heritage Register. See GMB's listing for Babworth House, Albury Technical College and Berry Courthouse as examples, in addition to Anzac Square. I guess I'll just have to keep nagging Google! Jk.nickels (talk) 01:18, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

re User talk:175.34.64.2

He/she has been using at least seven IP addresses to make such non constructive posts, mainly in Victoria but also in New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia and today even changed a station in Los Angeles to look like a Victorian one. User talk:122.108.100.214, User talk:175.34.64.2, User talk:49.180.97.241, User talk:122.110.221.80, User talk:122.108.96.93, User talk:211.27.86.17, User talk:49.199.113.207 I tried to report this user again this weekend but my report lapsed in time on three occasions. So I am not sure where to go from here. Drovers Wife has also reverted a number of his posts. Fleet Lists (talk) 09:30, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

@Fleet Lists: I've reported at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Let's hope some action happens. The problem is though that it is very easy to get a new IP address and keep vandalising :-( Kerry (talk) 09:38, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Non-existent categories

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Woy Woy Tunnel, please make sure that the category page actually exists. In some cases, it may be appropriate to create a new category in accordance with Wikipedia's categorization guidelines, but it is usually better to use the most specific available existing category. It is never appropriate to leave a page categorised in a non-existent category, i.e. one whose link displays in red. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:21, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

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CHL

Hey, is there any chance you could generate the Victorian CHL articles for me? Don't worry about the links (happy to do that myself), but it just saves a lot of nuisance with infobox creation etc. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

@The Drover's Wife: OK. I have rigged up a quick-and-dirty wikifier so you should get some links. I am running the generator now to make the articles. Kerry (talk) 07:04, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! Much appreciated. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

bushranger vs outlaw category

Hello Kerry, I noticed you removed the Australian outlaws category from Ben Hall's page, saying it's covered by the bushranger category. But "bushranger" and "outlaw" are not one in the same, given that only a small number of bushrangers were officially outlawed. I think it's a category worth keeping. - HappyWaldo (talk) 22:06, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

@HappyWaldo: Category:Bushrangers is currently a subcategory of Category:Australian outlaws; that's why I said it was covered. I've restored the category on Ben Hall. But if outlaws are a more restricted group of people as you explain, then maybe the definition of Category:Bushrangers needs to be revised to reflect this and then any pages in the category Bushrangers will then have to be individually re-categorised as outlaws (or not) depending on the specific circumstances? Kerry (talk) 22:22, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

I see, thanks. Since not all Australian outlaws were bushrangers (Jandamarra and Yagan for example), I think they should be entirely separate categories. And if a bushranger was outlawed, then it's fine to place them in both categories. - HappyWaldo (talk) 22:54, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

@HappyWaldo:I'll leave that with you as I don't have any particular knowledge about bushrangers/outlaws. I'm in the middle of sorting out the categorisation of NSW heritage sites (some of which are linked to bushrangers like Ben Hall and Captain Thunderbolt). Kerry (talk) 23:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure why we have Category:Australian outlaws at all when it's not the Australian usage - everyone in there belongs in the bushrangers category apart from the indigenous resistance leaders, who really don't fit with an "outlaw" definition at all and should be in something like "leaders of Aboriginal resistance in the Australian frontier wars". The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:28, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

About Draft:Lin Li (video artist)

Hi Kerry. I have moved this article into draftspace as an alternative to outright Template:Db-person speedy deletion. As far as I can see, an article about this Ms Li would fail any number of tests - WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO - for notability. What do you think about this? Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:58, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

It was a topic at a Art, Architecture & Feminism edit-a-thon as part of International Women's Day. I was there as a "Wikipedia person" (support role) and know nothing about contemporary art. At such events I have to depend on the organisers and participants (who do know the topic area) to assess notability. I was told Lin Li's works were screened at significant national and international events (which would appear to meet the notability criteria for a video artist). I did one sentence with one citation to help a new participant who was struggling to get started. I stressed the importance of addiing the important screenings, which doesn't seem to have occurred, which leaves us with an WP:ARTN situation (the article itself doesn't demonstrate notability but doesn't rule out that the topic isn't notable), a common scenario from such events. For that reason, I think a better route would be AfD unless you have experience in artist notability. It is rare for people who attend such events to continue to edit after them (they say they will, but experience demonstrates that they don't), so there is a reluctance for articles to created at such events to be left in Draft. There is a lot of desire for these kinds of events to be successful, but as they mostly involve new users, they can be somewhat problematic. Kerry (talk) 22:09, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Kerry, and thanks for your reply (which I have WP:COPYWITHIN'd above). Work commitments mean I can't respond today, will do my best asap. Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 11:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Deleting categories created in error

Hello. If you create a category by mistake such as Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Upper Lachan Shire then rather than blanking it, it's better to tag it directly with {{db-self}}. Blanking just creates work for someone else who will tag it with db-self... Le Deluge (talk) 01:55, 18 March 2019 (UTC)