Talk:Tupac Shakur/Archive 5

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Baltimore Orgin??

It has come to my attention that Tupac was not from Marin City but actually from Baltimore. I have sources that state this. Anyone care to comment? Mitchellandness1 (talk) 05:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I've discussed this here before. Tupac was born in NYC, moved to Baltimore as a preteen, then to Marin City as a teenager. Marin City was where he lived when he was discovered by Digital Underground and moved into the mainstreem media. He then moved to Oakland, apparently Atlanta for some time, and finally, L.A. The ORIGIN was left as Marin because it is where he ORIGINATED as both a mainstream rap artist (he was living in Marin when he was signed) and actor (he was living in Marin when he received the roll of Bishop in Juice). -Wakamusha (talk) 23:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Do any of you have a WP:SOURCE for your findings? Remember that copyrighted videos don't count. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Tupac was living in Baltimore as a teen and moved to Marin City in his late teenage years, he states this in the Tupac: Ressurection documentary, thus leading me to believe he was'nt raised in Marin City, and originally origins from Baltimore. 69.209.149.189 (talk) 20:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Pac was raised in 3 cities: NYC, Baltimore, and Marin City. NYC is his BIRTHPLACE, and Marin is his ORIGIN, because he was discovered there. -Wakamusha (talk) 01:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Apologies

I cant say for sure if 2Pac will come back (DONT GET ME WRONG I HOPE SO TOO) but I do know that the events that took place in Las Vegas, Nevada on Sept.13, 1996 were nothing more than a cover up. The Don Killuminati fooled the world . Some say hes a legend. I say hes a genius & nothing less than a mastermind. To all the TRUE 2Pac fans WE KNOW THE TRUTH. Unlike many others who come up with unrealistic explainations such as "voice-over/not the real 2Pac", "his autopsy explains it all" and whole bunch of other dumb ****. To everybody who is considered "fake" they dont realize that their only being fake to themselves.So please everybody stop trying to cover up the truth. We found it and see everything clear now .But the question remains "Will everyone see it clear or will the rest be confused?" If you think Im nuts maybe this will prove you wrong.

Tupac is da shit and he's still alive! He lives in Tanzania and no one can find him. He was crip cuz! —Preceding unsigned comment added by LeManche211 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

F***** Wit The Wrong N****Italic text

"aint tryna help the feds getta case for conspiracy....they keep it poppin lotta bustaz wanna seeme fall / I ****** yo ***** & now this new **** gon fadem all/ my ****** ball,made a call for some backup,the lil homies & my dogz in the black truck/ buck buck was the sound as they gatz burst/no need fa ambulance baby bring the black hearse/shoulda never ****** around busta how you figga makin moves on the wrong *****? itz wat it sounds like ding ding ding

BreathinItalic text

"Complete my mission my competition no longer beefin/I murdered all them bustaz now Im the last ********** breathin"

Starin Through My RearviewBold text

Multiple gunshots fill the block,the funs tops/****** is callin cops,people shot,nobody stops I wonder when the world stop carin last night,two kids shot while the whole block starin"

Hail MaryItalic text "when they turn out the lights/Ill be there in the dark,thuggin eternally throughout my heart"

He retold his own death and even explained Biggies death. Now come & tell me hes dead. Come on. I triple dog dare ya.

P.S.Theres no "voice-over" in his music. Even if there is such a thing and somebody wanted to do that theres one last little thing they gotta do: get the copyrights from his mom. I HIGHLY DOUBT Afeni would direspect her son by doing such a thing. But anywayz sorry to spoil it for all the nimrods out there but hey people its time to get back to reality so stop foolin yourselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.240.70 (talk) 07:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Worldwide Album Sales

All Eyez On Me 16 Million? Until The End Of Time 8.9 Million? Greatest Hits 15 Million?

Are THESE CONFIRMED......Never heard such worldwide figures....Needs a Source otherwise I will delete these figures

You never know what you had until you lost it. - some wise chineseguy

Its said that he sold around 75 million alboums worldwide... 50 mill in America alone... those stats look to be too much for just three albums?? but thats just my opinion... no factfiling here.. lol

The numbers in the intro are confirmed and sourced (Guinness Book of World Records), and they are for more than 3 albums. Those numbers wise chineseguy quotes are not unreasonable, several of his albums are multi-multi-...-platinum. But if the figures are not sourced to RIAA or something then someone needs to add the source to them. SqlPac 19:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Peter Travers' Review

I challenge the following sentence from the article: 'His first starring role was in the 1992 movie Juice as Bishop, a trigger happy teen, for which he was hailed by Rolling Stone's Peter Travers as "the film's most magnetic figure."'

Travers' review does not say that. You should fix it. SqlPac 04:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Jada Pinkett

I challenge the following from the article: 'In the documentary Tupac: Resurrection, Shakur says, "Jada is my heart. She will be my friend for my whole life," and Smith calls Shakur "one of my best friends. He was like a brother. It was beyond friendship for us. The type of relationship we had, you only get that once in a lifetime." A poem written by Shakur titled "Jada" appears in his book, The Rose That Grew From Concrete, which also includes a poem dedicated to Smith called "The Tears in Cupid's Eyes".'

It does not add any value, it is trivia, and should be removed. SqlPac 04:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe its there to back up the preceding statement that he was close friends with jada pinkett

Numbers

I challenge the following from the article: "After serving 11 months of his sentence, ..." According to the Manual of Style (Dates and Numbers), "11" should be spelled out as a word. SqlPac 04:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Commas

I challenge the following from the article: 'His second album, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., was released in 1993. Heavily produced by Stretch and the Live Squad, the album generated two hits, "Keep Ya Head Up" and "I Get Around", , the latter featuring guest appearances by members of the Digital Underground.'

The second comma after "I Get Around" is superfluous and should be removed. SqlPac 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I Get Around trivia

I challenge the following from the article: "It was originally going to be a Digital Underground track but instead Shock G gave it to Shakur."

It is trivia and does not add value to the article. SqlPac 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation

Considering this article is being published in over 30 languages, you might consider adding the IPA pronunciation of Tupac's name to the article. SqlPac 04:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Wfy

There are over a dozen links that should be considered just in the intro. If you're going to link "cardiac arrest", for instance, then what's the justification for not linking "respiratory failure"? And how many people who aren't in the music business and don't frequent concerts know what a "roadie" is? I counted almost 30 new links that could be added just to the intro, although the list could be narrowed down a bit for some of the more common words (assuming "racial equality", "drug abuse", "alcohol abuse", and others are eliminated as being well-known enough outside of the U.S. to merit leaving them unlinked). Enjoy. SqlPac 04:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Book Trivia

I challenge the following from the article: "Steinberg has kept copies of the books that Tupac read, which include J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, Jamaica Kincaid's At the Bottom of the River, Herman Melville's Moby Dick, Eileen Southern's Music of Black Americans, and the feminist writings of Alice Walker and Robin Morgan. Most of these books were read before the age of 20."

This does not add any value to the article, it is trivia, and should be removed.

I have over a hundred more of these, and I'll feed them to you slowly once I see that these are properly handled. SqlPac 04:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

catcher in the rye is a great book btw :) --84.250.27.36 21:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

      I've seen with my own eyes the books that Tupac read,they are in Leila Steingberg's house!

Lex Vick

So... do you think that it should be mentioned that his favorite rapper was Rakim? and that is where he got a lot of his lyrical inspiration from. That is what he said; in songs, interviews, and his movie.

Poor flow

Hi. The second paragraph has unexplained gaps. It describes Shakur being robbed and shot, and how that sparked the East/West rivalry, then jumps to him being released from prison, with no mention of how or why he was incarcerated. This should be cleaned up and the gaps filled in. --Segaba 14:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It was fixed. Then reverted. Then fixed again. Then reverted again. Give it your best shot. SqlPac 14:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I saw that too. I might look into it today or tomorrow myself. Tayquan ^holla_{My work} 19:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I was about to start a topic about this on the talk, but it looks like you beat me to it. The lead is horrible, it doesn't summarize the rest of the article, his life or who he was properly, nor is it properly wikified. ♠ SG →Talk 04:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

See above comments. I counted over 30 items that could be wikified in the intro alone. Much of this has already been done a couple of times, including a rewrite of the intro. See history for more info. SqlPac 14:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Good Article Review

This article has been brought to WP:GA/R for review and possible delisting of its Good Article status. Listed below are the reasons submitted to WP:GA/R for delisting.

Nomination for delisting: I believe the article does not meet the GA criteria found in WP:WIAGA. In particular, it fails to meet Criteria #1 (Well Written) and Criteria #2 (Factually Accurate and Verifiable). Of concern are many sections without reference, many unsourced trivial facts that have been added, poor introduction, and poor wikification of the intro and throughout. Examples include:

• As has been pointed out on the article talk page, the intro. has degenerated into a poor state and is quite jumpy/choppy. It does not properly summarize the article.
• Also pointed out on the talk page, the Intro alone has dozens of opportunities for proper wikification. Wikification throughout the intro and the article is sporadic and uneven. For example, an author felt it important to wikify "cardiac arrest" in the Intro, but did not feel it important to wikify "respiratory failure". In this instance, it should be both (preferable) or neither.
• Also pointed out on the talk page, the article includes a lot of trivia. Some examples include:
  • Section on Jada Pinkett-Smith that should be summarized in one or two sentences.
  • List of books the subject read, which is included to make a point. The same point can (and has) been made, in summarized form, previously in the article without a book list.
  • Trivial items also include career trivia and paragraphs of unsourced trivial statements about subject's future plans at time of death.
• Redundant redundancy is a problem. Some items are redundant, such as mentioning the subject's suspicions that certain other rappers had set him up to be killed, which is mentioned (verbosely) no less than 3 times (Intro, "Life on Death Row", "The November 1994 Shooting"), and the writing of the screenplay "Live2Tell", which is discussed in "Acting Career" and "Prison Sentence".
• Overlapping sections are a problem, with some items apparently in the wrong section. As an example, the end of the "Early Life" section includes several sentences discussing the beginning of the subject's career. The next section is titled "Early Career".
• Fan site sourcing. In particular the trivial items are sourced to Fan Sites, like this Russian Fan Site, Tupac Mania.
• Direct (mis-)quotes are not sourced. A direct quote from film critic Peter Travers ("the film's most magnetic figure") is actually a misquote, *and* it is unsourced. The correct quote and source were previously included in the article, but were subsequently changed.
• There are two paragraphs of completely *unsourced* trivia at the end of the "Life on Death Row" section.
• There are unsourced quotes from a rape victim, as well as unsourced trivia that includes very strong statements like the assertion that Shakur developed the word (Thug Life) into an acronym standing for "The Hate U Gave Little Infants Fucks Everybody".
• The article needs a good copyediting. There are grammar and punctuation errors throughout. For instance, the double comma in the album generated two hits, "Keep Ya Head Up" and "I Get Around", , the latter.
• Some areas of the article do not follow the guidelines at the Manual of Style (Dates and Numbers), such as the spelling out of certain numbers ("11" = "eleven" in the intro., while the number "6" a few sentences later is spelled out "six"; construction should be paralleled).

The article appears to have largely degenerated into an unsourced, poorly constructed, substandard hodge-podge of trivia about an extremely important figure in hip-hop. Changes have been attempted to bring it inline with Wikipedia guidelines &emdash; including copyediting, verification of sources, addition of more sources, removal of trivia, rewriting of entire sections, etc. Unfortunately attempts to bring the article up to WP:GA or even WP:FA status are constantly reverted. This article should be delisted immediately, and until such time as it is brought up to the WP:GA level. SqlPac 15:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Surprise, surprise... Tupac's Not Dead

At least not according to the first sentence of your article. Might want to check those facts. SqlPac 18:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism happens on a nearly daily basis to this article; nothing to get worked up about. It has since been reverted. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 19:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Merely pointing out it needed to be fixed. SqlPac 23:26, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

My bad. If you're watching the article, be prepared to see a lot of such activity. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 23:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I check in every once in a while, but not so much since it's gotten so bad. Thanks. SqlPac 00:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

2pac exposed biggie and bad boy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dCciv39q5Ms&mode=related&search=

Check that out and you will see who was the realest!!

And who's that? -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 17:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you please tell us your oppinnion if you have one so we can tell ours and have a conversation about this not linking some video and figuring out self what you mean because i dont get what you mean i dont know if that makes me dumb I personally dont think so but anyways you shouldn't say like "see who was the realest" instead of that you could do it like this "i thikn that x was the realest and this is why i think so" then link it and with x i mean mathematical term of presentating a changing carracter number etc dont know how to explane it i hope you got it now if u didnt i dont care.

A Blood???

I am surprised to see Tupac Shakur listed as a Blood and a gang member in one of his categories. Could you people in this area give a citation? Citations are needed in Wikipedia, you know.--Triple-Quadruple 07:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure that's known. It's mentioned a few times in several of the references already provided, so an additonal citation simply needs to be added. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 17:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

This was mentioned previously. There is no mention of this "fact" anywhere in the article. It is not sourced. It appears to be something that someone thought would be a really cool trivia item to add via Categories, circumventing the normal scrutiny applied to unsourced statements in the article text. SqlPac 19:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

READ WHAT I WROTE ON THE OTHER SIMILAR ARTICLE thank you i know writing with capital letters is childish but got your attention didnt I?--84.250.27.36 13:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

He wasn't necessarily a blood. He feuded with Crips cuz Big hired the Crips as security. Suge Knight was a blood so they assumed Pac was. Dre wasn't a blood he was on Death Row, Snoop was a crip...he was on Death Row. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.242.118 (talk) 01:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Parallel Construction of City Names in InfoBox

You should either add separate links to states as in the reference to Las Vegas, Nevada; add the state to the city name description link as in the reference to New York City, New York; or remove the state altogther as in the references to Oakland and Los Angeles.

New York City, New York USA
Las Vegas, Nevada USA
Oakland
Los Angeles
SqlPac 20:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

PAC not a blood

And im tired of people trying to say he was. This page is listed under the "bloods" category. If someone knows how to fix that, then please fix it. Also, I've been trying to take Pac off the Bloods article, but I guess I haven't been around long enough yet. Anybody who knows enough about Pac to know that he wasn't B or C, FIX IT!!! That is, if u can... Wakamusha 02:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sources? A song does not meet WP:RS. KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Time to whine seriously pac was not gang related he was maybe envolved with some bloods trough death row and maybe envolved with some cripz trough snoop dogg. Sorry for my english... This bloods thing is because of the "mob" tattoo that 2pac had and he means "Money Over Bitches" with it. It doesen't mean "Member Of Bloods". He also had a panther tattoo. If he has to be listed its Black Panther cos his mom stepfather etc were Black Panthers. I know it doesent make sence when read the first time but read it a couple of times and u get what im saying.--84.250.27.36 13:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't say that dre is gangrelated either...

Tupac was shot 5 times. Look at the Tupac house of Blues performance when he says "I got Shot 5 times, and i sold 5 million records. Listen to the song "All Out" "Letter To My Unborn" or just about any song from his Death Row days, he braggs about it every chance he gets. Triple Quadruple, getting shot doesnt make you a great rapper.

but being shot and survives makes a great story, doesn't it? If not, try that out yourself and let us know how it goes. 75.4.229.242 13:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

2pac was not a crip or blood. Isn't it proof enough that he wore both a red and a blue bandana at different times?Drumac 08:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Birth name yet again: Coroner's report is NOT a reliable source

Is there ANY other source for the LPC name? KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned, LVPD listed it as an Alias on official documentation, if you consider the police reliable. SqlPac 16:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

And that was the same source, in all meaningful sense. It is not a source for a birth name, it is a source for an alias. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Correct. That's why I said it is listed as an Alias by that source. There is, of course, the "magic", invisible original birth certificate that no one has proof ever really existed... I know some would like to source that, although I don't know how you source a "magic", invisible document. SqlPac 17:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I cannot watch this article as much as I'd like. Please revert and inform me if anyone ever edits this article to state that LPC or any variant was his birth name, or anything other than an alias. Thanks much. KillerChihuahua^?!? 17:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Article removed from the Good Article list

As a result of consensus following a week-long discussion at WP:GA/R, it was decided to delist this article from GA status. Please see the archived discussion for a list of suggested fixes needed; after the fixes have been made, please renominate the article at WP:GAC for another review. Thank you and happy editing!--Jayron32|talk|contribs 17:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

pac's name must be mentioned on this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_certification , i just i was woundering why eminem's name was there and pac's wasn't 212.103.163.149 11:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Source for that article: RIAA table KillerChihuahua^?!? 11:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

btw , pac's name is there...217.53.78.47 14:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Bogus Info?

This paragraph reads as suspect to me: "Although no one has ever been formally charged, nor publicly identified by the police as a suspect, police sources have indicated they believe that Tony O'Connell, an irish drug dealer who shot East Coast Rapper Skateboard P (A.K.A Peter Rooney) was responsible. Officers in the Compton, California Police Department Gang Unit claimed in a leaked report the Crips were bragging about the killing soon after O Connell returned from Las Vegas." I can't find any articles that mention a Tony O'Connell in relation to Tupac's death. The only rapper who goes by the name Skateboard P that I know of is Pharell Williams and he hasn't ever been shot to my knowledge. Also, I'm pretty sure the Crips wouldn't be bragging about killing Tupac if some "Irish Drug Dealer" did it. I suspect vandalism but I'll leave the paragraph and let others decide.Citizen Don 03:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It's probably vandalism at its finest. There was an article (I believe in the LA Times) which was cited in a prior version (it might even be cited in this one - not sure anymore), in which a reporter stated that informants had revealed to him the identity of a gang member who shot Tupac. I believe the reporter even gave the shooter's name. Supposedly this gang member was killed before the cops could get their hands on him. All this stuff you copied above about the "Irish Drug Dealer" sounds like straight up nonsense. If it's not sourced, delete it. SqlPac 04:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

On second though, it's not sourced. It's gone. Whoever added it, feel free to add it back in when you have a verifiable source or three. SqlPac 04:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Also there was an entire paragraph and a half of unsourced trivia crap. Whoever added it, feel free to add it back in when you have a verifiable source. Or three. SqlPac 04:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Was Tupac Muslim?

OK, here is my support for that, though I'm not sure: Tupacs mother Afeni Shakur, and stepfather Mutulu Shakur, are both Islamic converts through the Black Panthers The general tyes to Islam through the Black Panthers The word Shakur translates from Arabic as "faithful to Allah"

Though this does not, I believe, offer concise proof, it does allow reasonable belief room, which should put it up to debate. Arabic Pilot 07:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

His first name is of Incan/Peruvian origin, so was Tupac a follower of the Incan faith? Hmm... He also seems to have some Christian-centric tattoos, like the cross that covered nearly his entire back, or the tattoo of Jesus on the cross on his arm, or his tattoo that references Exodus. Is that the debate you were looking for? SqlPac 15:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Kadafi was Muslim, that's for sure. :) Faith in Allah!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.185.237 (talk) 07:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Alot of his lyrics site references to Islam. e.g. "spiritual lyrics like the holy Quran" I believe he has also stated his faith in one of his earlier songs. I don't see what the problem is? It's common knowledge that he was accepted of being of Islamic faith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.142.168 (talk) 08:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

If you want to define his faith through song lyrics, "Hail Mary" means he was Catholic right? C'mon, really... SqlPac (talk) 16:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Tupac was not a Muslim. For one Tupac was cremated, as all Shakur's are customed to. Muslims do not beleive in cremation. Tupac was a Christian. In an interview he stated, "I am me because of Jesus and God....the reason I am who I am today is because I can look directly into my faith (Christianity) and into my soul... I have to do things with truth and honesty because I have to repay for that blessing, that came from Jesus. If God gives you a gift and you waste it thats the curse.." He had a cross on his back which symbolizes Christianity and Biblical references like Exodus tattoed to his body. Yes, some of the Outlawz praticed Islam and tried to convince Tupac but he never converted. None of his lyrics talk about the Quaran, so I don't know what you are talking about. Hysteria2424 (talk) 14:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Tupac was not a Muslim, however, his step father is a Muslim. And Tupac had respect and knowledge of most religions. (86.21.90.165 (talk) 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

Tupac Amaru Shakur was born Lesane Parish Crooks

I've read the article about 2pac,and i saw that it missed that his given birthname is Lesane Parish Crooks. I found out that you needed back up on his LPC name,so here it is. I'm a big Pac fan,have his portait on my right chest. I've done thousands of hours research surrounding his death and all the theories about him faking his death. In 2005 i've met Leila Steinberg,the lady who took him in her home in Marin City,and we are close friends now. and if you want to find out more about Tupac, mail me

Morphlex-7@hotmail.com

Lex Vick, Los Angeles,CA —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.109.75.192 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate the offer, if you have a source we can use on Wikipedia which states that his birth name is LPC, please post information about it on the talk page of that article. Right now, we have two sources which state LPC was an alias of Tupac, and no source which meets Wikipedia's requirements of reliable sourcing. Please do post on the talk page of the article, and not on my talk page, so that other editors will be able to contribute to the discussion about the article. Thanks much - KillerChihuahua?!? 19:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The sources i have are the documentries i own on DVD named: Thug Angel, Tupac Vs., Thug Immortal, Before i wake and ofcourse Tupac: Resurrection. I suggest instead of just putting the names on the site,watch them and learn.

A close friend of mine named Leila Steinberg,yes that Leila Steinberg,who co-produced 'Thug Angel',even confirmed the given birth name as Lesane Parish Crooks.

Afeni Shakur did not know who the father was when he was born. She changed her and her son's name when she married Mutulu Shakur.

Talking about Leila,that concert was in her own backyard. She also arranged the meeting with Atron Gregory because she semi-managed him in the beginning of his career.

With kind regards, Lex Vick

Pac's Life IS NOT Gold!

I have something to say as to the sales of Pac's Life. I while back i noticed that the album was taking a long time to be certified platnium, or gold for that matter. Beneath the sales chart was a worldwide fact that had no references. But, the last tab for his weekly sales i made the number up out of nowhere and it still has not been editied. I wanted the number to push his worldiwde sales past 500,000, which would give him gold status worldwide. The reason i bring this up is because it was so easy just to type any number in there and no one is willing to check and see if it is true. Also i noticed that there was one week where it stated that he sold exactly 7,000. I believe there is no way such a perfect number like that would come up. So i suggest we find out how much the album really sold, and not what we have posted. I am not a member of wikipedia but my screenname is matavelli33, let me know what i can do to fix this misunderstanding. —The preceding comment is by 24.3.205.94 (talk • contribs) 24.3.205.94: Please sign your posts!

many still believe pac is alive

i think someone with more knowledge on this topic could probably add a section regarding proof or conspiracies of how tupac died, if he died!

yes!finally someone mentions it! i foudn an artice about it, it blew my mind away! here is the link----> http://members.aol.com/subseven/tupac.html

one of the facts on the link above says that the license plate is suspicious because it's 61671, something about seven and the sum of 6 and 1 being seven..............or maybe they put it there because that's his birthday...june 16 1971 i hate when people word things to try and keep their beliefs going —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.150.108 (talk) 08:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

There could be a "Controversy" section with speculations of him "faking his death" you could include verse like this one...

"I heard rumor I died, murdered in cold blood dramatized. Pictures of me in my final stages, you know mama cried, but that was fiction, some coward got the story twisted, Like I no longer existed, mysteriously missing, But I'm worldwide baby, I ain't hard 2 find" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.242.118 (talk) 01:33, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Come on ppl, he got "shot" on the strip of Las Vegas after a TYSON fight and no one saw shit?? He's alive. Ask dave shappell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Idon'twannahaveausername (talk • contribs) 08:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

GA failure

I am quick failing this article due to non fair use of images of album covers - without a rationonale. Some of the issues above could also be a problem for GA, but other stuff may escape. In any case it looks like its not quite stable yet. GB 22:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there's no way it would have passed a GA. I thought it was very inappropriate of the editor to nominate this for a GA and not even check if the issues from the previous delisting were addressed. If you look at the "to do list" and the references, it should have been obvious that this was not up to standard. Spellcast 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Grammar Issue

Grammar or a simple typo, the last sentence of "1.3 Acting Career" it is written

Later on while he was in prison who wrote the screenplay for an upcoming film "Live 2 Tell" which tells the story of a teenager who becomes a drug lord.

I believe the "who" should be changed to "he." --Oz8ball1 18:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

So fix it. Spellcast 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

i think it was a question? instead of a dot there should be a questionmark (?) or then who should be he --84.250.27.36 19:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Legacy

Requesting family bio please, children, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.39.126 (talk) 01:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

What sentence?

"Later, Shakur was shot five times in a recording studio lobby in Manhattan and was robbed. Following the incident, Shakur grew suspicious that other figures in the rap industry had prior knowledge of the shooting and did not warn him; the controversy would help spark the East Coast-West Coast hip hop rivalry. After serving eleven months of his sentence, Shakur was released from prison on an appeal financed by Marion "Suge" Knight, the CEO of Death Row Records."

There's an incongruous jump there from him getting shot to being in gaol, which isn't explained. I'm not saying it's incorrect, because I don't know anything about Tupac Shakur (that's why I was looking at his Wiki article in the first place) but I don't see how he can just have been incarcerated as a result of getting shot. Can somebody who knows what they're talking about please fix this?

58.108.239.245 15:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Tom 09/10/07

He was convicted of sexual abuse shortly after his shooting. Fixed lead section to make less confusing. --Ted87 22:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Birth place

Pac wasn't born in East Harlem, he was born in Brooklyn, please add that to the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.178.231.87 (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The above is correct, Tupac was born in BK. Also his "Origin" should not be down as "Marin County" His origin is Brooklyn, New York! Could someone please change this? (86.21.90.165 (talk) 20:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

career start

His career started in 1989 not in 1991, if you don't believe it, listen to the album the lost tapes, the recordings where made in 1989. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.178.213.24 (talk) 17:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

It probably refers to when his first album was released. I'm sure he actually started rapping much earlier but how would anyone know when that was besides himself? Best to go with the release of his first albumDrumac 07:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Club 662

It says here, and many other articles on the web that Club 662 was/is owned by Death Row. This is untrue. It was in fact owned by someone named Helen Thomas and had no association to Death Row apart from it being frequented by Death Row members and other celebrities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bling00 (talk • contribs) 07:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If this cannot be verified, it should be removed.Sephiroth storm 06:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

RIAA hating on 2pac

According to the RIAA 2pac and Makaveli are seperate artist so he doesnt get the sales for the 7 day theory album, yet artist like Jefferson Airplane have their name like "Jefferson Airplain/starship". The RIAA also hasnt kept up with 2pac sales so according to their standards hes still at 36.5 million albums, (Only .5 more then the last time they made a chart for best selling artist). Are they scared that an artist like 2pac would out sell white artist like Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton,etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Blizzard King (talk • contribs) 03:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Apparently you need to pay a fee or something for them to check the sales and I guess Suge or whoever doesn't want to put in the money.Drumac 07:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Suge has no control over it, his mother has the rights to his publishing. The RIAA is usually pretty accurate, maybe he just hasn't sold since death. We're in an era of CD Burning, a obstacle Pac never faced while living. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.242.118 (talk) 01:37, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

about.com

About.com is not a reliable source for saying 2pac is the most influential rapper of all time. If you notice it is just one guy who writes articles about things. However many people (including me) do believe that 2pac is the most influential artist of all time so there must be a more reliable source somewhere. Otherwise that statement should be deleted.Drumac 07:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

origin

Tupac's origin is listed as L.A. That may be where he lived when he died, but not when he was signed or discovered. By this logic, we should have to go through every actor in Hollywood and change their origin to a place they moved to AFTER they became famous??! We should consider changing this. Here are several more options:

New York City: His birthplace Baltimore, MD: Where he began his raping and acting careers Marin City, CA: Where he lived when joining Digital Underground Oakland: Where he lived when getting signed by Interscope, as well as receiving the role for Juice

Reasons to change the origin FROM L.A.: -He only lived there continuously for the last year of his life -He didn't even sign to Death Row when living in L.A.; he was still incarcerated at Clinton Correctional Facility -The origin has previously stated both Oakland and Marin, possibly changed by L.A. residents trying to claim Pac as being "from" their city.

Wakamusha 23:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Well since nobody seems to care enough to respond then I'll just go ahead and change it myself.

Wakamusha (talk) 03:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

His "Origin" should not be down as "Marin County" His origin is Brooklyn, New York! Could someone please change this? (86.21.90.165 (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

No, his BIRTHPLACE was New York (more specifically Harlem, not Brooklyn). It is listed as such on the article. -Wakamusha (talk) 01:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Citation 58 has a bad link

allhiphop.com bad link for Citation 58. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.251.115 (talk • contribs) 08:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone should format the references so they are all correct and the same. --andreasegde (talk) 10:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll double check on the reflist. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Awards/Honors/Grammys

The awards sections is very short, the page does not mention a Grammy once. Could someone with the ability please find that information and add it? Look at this Kanye West page for gods sake: List of Kanye West awardsCosprings (talk) 22:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree...how come this hasn't been added yet? He was nominated for a grammy twice IIRC. (once in 1995 and once in 1998 or 99) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.145.20 (talk) 07:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

GA review

• also known by his stage names - change also to "better"
• was an American artist renowned for his rapping and hip hop music, as well as his movie roles, poetry, and his social activism - Suggest rewording to reduce use of additive terms
• 75,000,000 - why not simply 75 million? Same with 50
• I'm going to merge them all into one here, there are heaps of links which are relating to common terms and should not be linked. Those that are listed more than once appear that many times in the article. These include, prison, Spain, robbery, robbery, shooting, police officer, acting, rapping (already mentioned), High School, rapping, music video, actor, actor, music video, shooting, prison, shooting, music video, hip-hop (already mentioned), British, music video
• last name, only to change it three months[8] or a year later, following her marriage to Mutulu Shakur the ref in the middle of a sentence breaks the flow for the read, possible to move it to after to fullstop?
• "127th Street Ensemble." double quotes go inside the full-stop, "famous" may also be considered POV
• to Baltimore, Maryland,[12] After completing - Either the comma needs to be a fullstop or After should not be capitalized.
• His mother's crack - crack doesn't sound very encyclopedic and consider adding a suitable wikilink
• Consider merging the once sentence paragraph in November 1994 shooting, reference is also needed
• Shakur immediately went back to song recording, "Song recording" doesn't sound very good, how about enter the recording studio or something else
• Some more references will be required for the Life on Death Row Records for FA
• First paragraph of September 1996 shooting needs references
• [38][36] -> [36][38]
• [43][42][38] - put in numerical order for all references like this
• Acting career - In addition - not good to start a sentence with an additive term
• why not merge the Honors section into legacy?
• didn't commit - did not commit
• The references need to be formatted as some are URL's, all web references need a title, publisher (the website) access date (use today), and author or date if applicable. Reference 18 currently does this correctly you may want to use the template:cite web
• There are references in the external links section for some reason?

Anyway if you disagree with anything brought up feel free to mention and i have this page watchlisted so just respond here once you have dealt with what you think are suitable fixes. M3tal H3ad (talk) 06:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

These things were pretty small and the article is pretty good. Too bad no one wants to make the appropriate changes. M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Hyperbole

The (unreferenced) statement under 'Legacy' that Tupac 'has one of the largest personal legacies of any music artist in the history of music', and to a lesser extent the following sentence, are a ridiculous bit of hype. Could someone with editing permissions remove it please? --LawrenceH (talk) 01:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Alive theories

I know I have been stupid bringing back this shit again, but yeah does anyone understand what 50 Cent exactly means on the song he did featuring 2pac, a line containing: "til' makaveli returns it's all eyes on me..:" What can it be referred to? --Flesh-n-Bone 21:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

2pac is dead, Orlando Anderson killed him. All the evidence shows that Orlando Anderson killed him. Biggie didn't kill him, neither did Suge, all that alive theory nonsense is bullshit. The bullets that shot Suge's BMW was from a .40 Glock, when the police raided Orlando Anderson's house, what did they find? That's right a .40 glock, despite Anderson denying that didn't own a .40 glock. The reason why the case hasn't been investigated deeper is because if the LVPD did, it would spark a gang war in L.A. Here's the lowdown on Pac's murder, you beat up a crip and get him angry, he's going to retaliate by killing you. Apparently Orlando Anderson didn't care that it was 2pac that he was going to kill. LockDog387 (talk) 11:12, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Guinness Book of World Records

Shouldn't this sentance state the year he was in the book. Since he may not be the current record holder? Also the citation for this is a magazine. Shouldn't the citation for this be the source. I think it was the Guinness book year 2004 according to research?

70.184.210.238 (talk) 14:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)John70.184.210.238 (talk) 14:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

2Pac or Tupac

Hi, Why is "Tupac Shakur" the main article for rapper "2Pac"? The article "2Pac" is merely a redirect to "Tupac Shakur". It would seem logical to me if his artistname was used instead. Just as "Earl Simmons" would redirect to main article "DMX", and "Curtis Jackson" would redirect to article "50 Cent". I also see a lot of pages where his name is mixed with other artistnames, like "DMX, 50 Cent and Tupac". It would be the same as saying "Earl, Curtis and Tupac". I don't feel like changing all of those pages if there is a reason for his name to be used like this. I hope someone can answer my question, thanks in advance! W4rr10r (talk) 11:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article be called "2Pac" not "Tupac Shakur" as 2Pac was his stage and the name he's most known by.--Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 20:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I would guess it's because he is mostly credited "Tupac Shakur" rather than by any of his stage names; the movies he participated in credited him by his full name and, if I recall correctly, his guest appearances in A Different World and In Living Color listed him in the same fashion. Maybe someone could get a WP:SOURCE or something to check this out. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

The movies don't really count as 50 Cent is credited as "Curtis Jackson" in his movie apperences but his article is called 50 Cent, secondly on Interscope's website he is credited as "2 Pac" and "2Pac" in other place and on iTunes he's credited as "2Pac".--Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 18:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, just do a search on the net for the most common name and see what you got. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Shady, what is the meaning of this? Seriously, we haven't even reached a agreement. Discuss, Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Why no mention of this?

I have uncovered a multitude of different interviews, articles, and books metioning how Tupac was almost foolishly obsessed with trying to look like a gangster, such as associating himself with the likes of Jimmy "Henchmen" Rosemond, Hatian Jack, and most famously, Suge Knight. And also, no metion of how many of his longtime friends said that he only became a thug after playing the role of "Bishop" in Juice?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.19.228 (talk) 18:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The photo was not taken in the last moments of his life. He died several days after the shooting. Courtneycater (talk) 20:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

sorry for the repeat post....it's not showing up as a separate topic The "moments before" photo caption needs to be corrected. He died several days after the shooting. Thanks Courtneycater (talk) 20:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

true, it is not his "last moment alive." He did 6 days after. RIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.144.11 (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Discography

Hi. I'm Italian, so I could be wrong, but I have these albums that there aren't in the discography at the moment:

• In His Own Words (1998)
• You Never Heard (1999)
• Still I Rise (Part 2) (2002)
• 2Pac & Friends (2003)
• Ready 2 Die (2005)
• The Prophet Return (2005)

I don't know if these are "actual" Tupac's album, otherwise I'd have added them. I'll let you decide. :-) Greetings, Giovanni - 151.55.24.197 (talk) 17:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Removing unencyclopedic statement

"Many fans, critics, and industry insiders rank him as one of the greatest rappers ever."

I've removed this statement because it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. I'm not saying that Tupac isn't considered one of the greatest rappers, but you shouldn't need to read an encyclopedia article to tell you that. We should just stick to factual statements, and not include hyperbolic statements that are worded in such a way, that they can be interpreted to mean many different things. (NovaTabula (talk) 17:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC))

"Some believe that Shakur has one of the largest personal legacies of any music artist in the history of music. The music and messages in his work pervaded the styles of the following generations and his music had great impact all over the nation and world."

Also, I've removed this statement from the legacy section. {NovaTabula (talk) 19:35, 23 February 2008 (UTC)}

Special Thanks

Well thanks to anyone that ended the fued between me and that other guy with his alias being "Black Haze" I mean I have heard nearly 60% of all Tupac songs and NONE of them ever said anything about "Black Haze" I mean any motherfucker just comes in here and write dat stuff, and these people believe it.... Well whatever thanks. Sorry if this made me sound like a Wiki n00b, LOL.

YaBoiKrakerz

References to "Cato" in his lyrics

Who is the "Cato" that Pac refers to in some of his songs? --BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 18:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

He referes to Kato not "Cato". Kato Was a friend of 'pacs and Big Syke who was killed over his car. He also mention "Mental" alot reffring to the rapper Mental Ilness who was also murdered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soulja nyn3 (talk • contribs) 23:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Guinness Book of World Records

According to the Guinness Book of World Records, Tupac is the highest-selling hip hop artist in history, with over seventy five million albums sold worldwide, including over fifty million in the United States. http://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands.php?bandid=5063 Why is this not mentioned??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.159.141.119 (talk) 07:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Biggie

Include The Notrious BIG as a an associated act since Tupac is under Biggie's Associated acts —Preceding talk • contribs) 22:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Questionable content

Can someone varify the line "Some of his ashes were later mixed with cannabis and smoked by members of Outlawz.[46]" ?

Yes. Somebody please verify this. In the referenced article it states there was an ash scattering ceremony, but nothing about smoking some of the ashes with cannabis. [47] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.142.140 (talk) 23:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This is true. I've heard it from many sources. Part of the ashes were given to the Outlawz to smoke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.24.7 (talk) 16:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Frankee confusion

Um, i think there should be information disambiguating the connection between 2pac and Frankee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.178.182.58 (talk) 09:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Top 10 Billboard Singles

-How come a alot of the songs in the list of Top 10 Billboard Singles are not said to be top 10 singles in the discography? If I don't get an answer about this in the next few days it needs to be changed. Duder999 (talk) 20:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

bianca x —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.241.162.86 (talk) 22:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

how come the sentence referring to tupac as the greatest rapper ever isnt in there anymore? someone should put it back. someone edited BIG and said that hes the best rapper ever, change it back to #3 on BIGs article. i know that that isnt true about BIG but he was stil an excellent rapper.( june 9 2008) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nellsb (talk • contribs) 09:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

No article should state that anyone is / was the best anything, as it is opinion. Qzm (talk) 13:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Phonetic pronunciation

I think we should incude a phonetic pronunciation in the opening line of the article. I have heard enough of the media refering to him as "Two-Pack." This is a page that script writers might actually check before programming the teleprompter if they are unsure of how to inform the Brokaws and O'Reilys how to pronounce the names of the icons of today's young people. -Wakamusha (talk) 19:03, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Go back through the page history to find the IPA phonetic pronunciation, which we previously included, but which was unceremoniously stripped by someone who thought it was unimportant. SqlPac (talk) 03:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Origin vs. Birthplace

Can someone please explain to me the difference between origin and birthplace? As it stands now, he has one birthplace (New York) and two origins, which are, conveniently, 3000 miles from one another (in CA and MD). I feel as though something here is wrong. Tiger Khan (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

There was a discussion about origin versus birthplace before. The arguments were basically these:

• He was verifiably born in NYC (although there was argument as to where, I believe it was verified that he was actually born in Manhattan - most likely in Harlem, but raised in Brooklyn until the family moved). This established his birthplace as NYC.
• The arguments about origin were largely focused on where his professional career started. I'm not aware of anything indicating his professional career beginning in MD, though he went to school there for years; apparently someone else thinks differently. If whatever he did in high school in MD counts as part of his "professional career", then I'm not sure how his work in the acting troupe in NYC at a very young age was discounted.
• There were also arguments indicating he "claimed" Los Angeles, and therefore L.A. should be listed as his origin. IIRC these arguments were dismantled fairly quickly.
• AFAIK his professional career began in Oakland, CA, when he started out as a backup dancer for Digital Underground. If origin relates to the origin of his professional career, then it should probably be indicated as Oakland, CA. I would also recommend changing the "origin" label to something more descriptive that indicates it's a "professional origin" as opposed to the ambiguous "origin".

As it stands now the origin appears to be a shortlist of places he happened to live at during various periods of his life. SqlPac (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I'm going to remove Baltimore if it hasn't been done already. Tiger Khan (talk) 13:53, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

In Marin City...I bumped into...Grag Jacobs aka Shock G and he hooked me up with Didgital Underground -Pac (pretty much puts this one to rest). -Wakamusha (talk) 01:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

It still doesn't define "origin". If "origin" is defined by the start of the professional career, this quote indicates that the start of the professional career is defined by the point in the Universe at which you happened to bump into someone who "hooked you up". What about the people you bump into who hook you up with the people who hook you up? If Tupac had happened to run into Shock G for the very first time on a plane over Idaho would that make his origin "10,000 feet above Boise"? That's pretty unsatisfying. If you're going to cite origin as the beginning of a personal career, something more solid like the location at which the person signed their contract, or maybe even where they gave their first public performance under a professional contract (although that could end up being a lot different from whatever is being slammed into "origin" in other cases), would be more concrete and a lot more satisfactory. OTOH why is there even an "origin" on here? It seems completely unnecessary; do a lot of other templates use "origin" in addition to "birthplace" when referring to the subject of the article? SqlPac (talk) 16:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I concur that it's a weird category to have. Anyone opposed to deleting the label altogether? Tiger Khan (talk) 02:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree we should get rid of "origin" for three reasons: (1) "origin" in this context isn't well defined at all (as evidenced by all the strange things people put in there), (2) "origin" doesn't add any value to the article, and (3) the inclusion of "origin" in the summary box is confusing at best. SqlPac (talk) 21:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I didnt mean "origin" as meaning where he got signed, or where he met Shock G, but where he was LIVING when all of this happened. Its splitting hairs, I know. But definitely either Marin City or Oakland should be put as origin (he lived in Marin, but Digital Underground was an Oakland-based hip-hop group). Most artists who have a different origin than their birthplace have it listed in their article, and this one should be no different.

Examples of articles with separate origins are Ludacris and Kanye West. -Wakamusha (talk) 20:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

In the example of Ludacris, Atlanta was where he recorded, released, and sold his first album (out of the trunk of his car). It's also where he first signed with a label. It's not a matter of splitting hairs, but rather determining what exactly an "origin" is for an artist. As you mentioned, if Tupac's "origin" is to be meaningful to anyone then it needs to be set based on the same criteria as any other artist. So the question still stands, what is an "origin" in relation to an artist? SqlPac (talk) 20:50, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't get it, weren't there ever any controversy of him being born in the East Coast, but representing West Side?-SCB '92 (talk) 19:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

There was and there wasn't. Thats why it is helpful to list an origin, to establish him as a west coast rapper. The biggest difference between east coast and west coast hip-hop is production, and most of his beats were layed down by west coast producers. Wakamusha (talk) 11:35, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

If "origin" is just there to establish a rap artist's "regional style" (e.g., "West Coast", "East Coast", "Midwest", "Dirty South", etc.), I would recommend replacing it completely with "regional style" or something similar. In Tupac's case it would be "Regional Style: West Coast". Why confuse people with an ill-defined concept like "origin", when its only purpose is to imply something that is actually well-defined? In other words, why put up something ambiguous just to imply something else that is far less ambiguous? SqlPac (talk) 21:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

If origin is to be included, Marin City works. In "Resurrection" it was stated that Pac was riding over the Golden Gate Bridge back to Marin the first time "Same Song" was played on the radio. Origins exist in many more similar articles (Eminem, Dr. Dre, Jadakiss, DMX...) where different birthplaces are listed. Note that all the origins include where all these artists lived when they were SIGNED (Eminem born in Missouri, origin Detroit. Dre born in LA, origin Compton. Both DMX and Jadakiss lived in Yonkers when signed. Neither was born there, and both were signed by labels based out of NYC, Ruff Ryders and Bad Boy). In articles such as Snoop Dogg or Ice Cube where the origin happens to be the same as the birthplace, origin is still listed, with only the birthdate listed next to "born" (Cube's says L.A., where he was born and raised, despite representing Compton for the beginning of his career, and Snoop, born and raised in LBC, has that listed, not L.A. where Death Row is). Pac lived in Marin when he was signed, discovered, recorded his first song, and when he received his first movie role. Now since we seem to have split into two separate discussions reguarding origin (to change it or to trash it) I cant see why it would state anything besides Marin, and I cant see not including it since one is listed in just about every hip-hop article already. Wakamusha (talk) 01:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

So "origin" is equivalent to "where the artists lived when they were 'SIGNED'". That's a reasonable definition. It might need to be further narrowed down a teeny tiny bit more though. By signed we are talking signing a contract with any old label (local, national, international) or just a "major" label? What about artists who put out music and records independently prior to signing with a label? Those obviously don't count toward the "origin" by this definition. This is fine for an artist like Pac who was "signed, discovered, recorded his first song, and received his first movie role" all while living in the same place, but what about artists who start somewhere and then move to a new city or town after signing? This is more for general information and guidance on the "rule"; I think using Marin for Pac's "origin" is fine as long as there's a logical and consistent reason to choose Marin. Thanks. SqlPac (talk) 00:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no move - non admin closure. Do U(knome)? ^yes...|_{or no} 00:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Tupac Shakur → 2Pac — Move to 2Pac per WP:NCP, which states the name of an article should be "the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". 2Pac is clearly Shakur's most common name and it doesn't conflict with any other page since it already redirects to here. Two years ago there was a move discussion that had some ridiculous arguments against the move ("real name") that I hope are not repeated in this discussion. Do U(knome)? ^yes...|_{or no} 14:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose 2Pac was a stage name. No evidence is given that it is more commonly used name for him. All the references I recall seeing in mainstream media use "Tupac Shakur". older ≠ wiser 14:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose apparent official bio [1] strictly uses 'Tupac' in the text. Ripe (talk) 20:12, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose "2pac" is no longer the most common way he is referred to. It was while he was alive, but it appears that "Tupac" is now. 70.51.8.231 (talk) 05:01, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose In movies, he is credited at "Tupac Shakur". Wakamusha (talk) 01:56, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

• Give some evidence of the relative usage of the two names, and prove what is more common rather than stating it. Knepflerle (talk) 23:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

• I'm opposing my own nomination, as I clearly made a mistake by assuming it was common sense that Tupac Shakur is better known as 2Pac, when it is actually the opposite. Do U(knome)? ^yes...|_{or no} 00:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Genre

"Hip hop" is too generic. I suggest listing Pac's genre in the infobox as "Gangsta rap, West Coast hip hop, Political rap, G-Funk". Would make more sense. Netrat (talk) 00:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

No it wouldn't, see Template:Infobox musical artist#Genre. That should clear things up. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:58, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

• "m dyson holler" :
  • Dyson, M. ''Holler If You Hear Me: Searching for Tupac Shakur''. BasicCivitas Books. 2001.
  • Dyson, M. "Holler If You Hear Me". [[Harvard University]]. 2003.

DumZiBoT (talk) 06:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

East Harlem

It is put as East and Harlem. He was born in east/spanish harlem/puerto rican harlem and has nothing to do with harlem/central harlem/black harlem..... Unlock and change it please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.226.63 (talk) 23:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:American sex offenders

I think this category should be removed, since his case was later appealed. Wakamusha (talk) 23:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The rape case was appealed, but he was still convicted for sexual abuse. If memory serves, I believe it was three to four years in a correctional facility. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Right, but if his case was appealed, Pac would no longer be a registered sex offender under Megan's Law. Wakamusha (talk) 20:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure it's still on his criminal record, no reason to think that it's "outdated". He fits in the category. If not, why did he go to jail? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:58, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

He spent 11 months in jail on an 18-54 month sentence and was "released on bail, pending appeal." His case was successfuly appealed. Maybe it's time we take him off a category which only lists 37 articles, mostly serial killers and discraced politicians. Wakamusha (talk) 23:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I'm starting to see what you mean. But how does Category:American criminals sound? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Better, seeing as he had multiple criminal charges against him. It doesn't make sense to highlight the sex offense when it was appealed and also accompanied by several conspiracy theories (government setup, set up by Haitian Jack, or maybe she just lied). Wakamusha (talk) 20:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes. It was a good idea to categorize him on all criminal accounts. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Legal issues, ballistics from "Tupac and entourage's guns"

there is a reference here to a newspaper article that says the ballistics have been revealed that proved the bullets were not from tupac or any of his posse's guns, yet there is no link to the reference and i've searched the internet and all i find is more sites using this reference yet no real article. verification anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.98.215.235 (talk) 13:16, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I just spotted that apparently incorrect claim (more than a year after you pointed it out) and I can't believe it's still there with no references or verification. Here's links to two articles, one from the San Francisco Chronicle and one from the San Francisco Examiner (when it was still a Hearst-owned daily), that show Tupac's attorney admitting that the fatal bullet came from a handgun registered to Tupac Shakur:

• Minton, T. (1995, November 3). Marin City Haunted By Boy's Shooting - Wrongful death trial about to begin. San Francisco Chronicle, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1995/11/03/MN70883.DTL
• Rath, T. (1995, November 7). Lawyer: Shakur knew the danger - Parents' suit puts rapper on trial in shooting of boy, 6. San Francisco Examiner, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1995/11/07/NEWS13931.dtl

I'll try to make an edit to the main article (with those references) when I have the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.169.109 (talk) 23:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

November 1994 shooting

haven't found any good references, but this says http://www.answers.com/topic/tupac-shakur the shooting happened the day after the verdict, while this page says the day before, and they are completely different verdict/sentencing dates? nov 30th 94 and feb. 7th 95 i believe.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.98.215.235 (talk) 13:27, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

the verdict was read the day after the shooting, as tupac checked out of the hospital against medical advise to show up to the court hearing. he did this to prevent any speculation that this was a publicity stunt so he would receive leniency —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.97.164.146 (talk) 16:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

BMW 750i sedan

In the article it states that he was shot in an BMW 750i. However, I've seen other pics of said vehicle and am quite positive it's a 750iL (long-wheel base). Changed it to 750iL. Paulmer2003 (talk) 02:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Tupac and Thuggee?

There are various sources which tend to imply some link between the original Hindu Thuggee concept and Tupac Shakur's "Thug Life",[2] but finding an outright statement of this is another matter. Did Shakur explicitly reference Kali or offer parallels to resistance of the Hindu caste system, for example? Wnt (talk) 07:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

October 1993 Atlanta shooting

The referenced NYTimes article doesn't state that the officers were intoxicated or had weapons from an evidence locker, and neither does anything else I can find online, so I've removed that for now, but if anyone can find a solid source for that, please put it back in with a citation! I've also found claims online that Mark Whitwell left his job with the police seven months later, which if true is definitely relevant here, but can't find a reliable source for that, either. Electronwill (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Album 'Sunset Boulevard' is missing from this article

I remember mention of this important compilation a few weeks ago here, all mention of it and references to the article on this album compilation of 2005 are missing. Shouldn't this be included? Thank you!

Karen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karrenola (talk • contribs) 13:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Name?

Why isn't his birth name Parish Lesane Crooks listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThePistol (talk • contribs) 18:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Movies Shakur was alleged to a have read for

according to a well known 2pac fansite, "Tupac was planned to act in the movies Cool Runnings, Higher Learning, Menace II Society and How To Be A Player".

this is from http://www.numberonestars.com/musiclegends/2pacfacts.htm

i have also heard he read the script for forrest gump's Bubba.

Menace II Society incident is already adresses to on wiki page so is higher learnings

can anybody find more valid citations for the above in addition to the fansite source?

thanks

04dejand —Preceding unsigned comment added by 04dejand (talk • contribs) 21:52, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Who is in control of this page?

Why isn't Tupac's birth name listed as Lesane Parish Crooks? Why doesn't the page say he was raised in Brooklyn? Why is there not a section about the famous women he dated? Why does the page start with information not relevant to his murder such as a rape case and other legal cases. Should this not be listed further down? Why is he not listed as the best rapper ever anymore? Where is the section about his father?

This page should be edited by fans and Tupac experts. The fact that you seem to ignore alot of the questions on here suggest an arrogance.

Could you please get back to me and let me know what your policies are for controlling this page. I would like to spend some time editing it and I do not want somebody else to delete my contributions because it's not what they want,. This is about Tupac and whoever you are that is controlling the page, the way it is written you do not seem to like Pac very much.Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk) 20:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No one is controlling the page. New or controversial claims need reliable sources to back them up. You merely stating it is true is not enough. Over the last few years, there have been myriad books published about Tupac's life and achievements. No doubt a devoted fan such as yourself possesses, or is at least aware of, some of these sources. Availing yourself of them (and perhaps using some helpful citation templates) would keep other editors and their concerns at bay. I would however caution you against subject, point-of-view statements such as "best rapper ever", as those sorts of value judgements have to be put in the mouth of critics, not stated as fact (e.g. "according to the Source Magazine, Tupac is the best rapper ever.") Ford MF (talk) 18:12, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Also, as regards the "Brooklyn" claim, the copy of "Tupac Shakur" published by Three Rivers (an imprint of Random House) I have here (ISBN 0-609-80217-8), Tupac is quoted on the subject of his upbringing in New York as saying that he moved between Harlem and the Bronx a lot. No mention of Brooklyn. (p. 25). Ford MF (talk) 18:22, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Can someone obtain a copy of his birth certificate to determine his birth name and place? Qzm (talk) 13:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Mark Whitnall

And yes, I am a true Tupac fan and Mark Whitnall did leave his job with the police just after. He appears himself in the documentary BIGGIE & TUPAC by Nick Broomfield. Are you going to update this information now that you have proof? Probably not because you cannot find it on the precious internet. Why don't you try to research elswhere instead of being lazy. You have deleted some of my contributions and I would like to know why? When are you going to change the birth name?Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk) 20:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Your claims are not proof. See WP:RS. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 20:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Digital Underground albums

can somebody please remove all the digital underground albums which have been added to tupacs discography at the bottom of the tupac shakur page, i don't know the name of the box thing but its the thing which like comes at the bottom of every tupac shakur article, can somebody please remove it as they are put in his solo album section and they are not correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 04dejand (talk • contribs) 14:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Lesane Parish Crooks (Tupac Amaru Shakur) Alice Faye Crooks (Afeni Shakur)

if you say that his birth name has never been confirmed by his family, why have you got a claim on here that Afeni changed his name and then got married and changed it back etc etc..are you not contradicting yourself?. I don't know who's running this page but whoever you are this Tupac page sucks and does not do him justice. There are so many discrepencies and mis-information that it really makes me sad. And as a true fan I know alot about Tupac and try to change things with my reliable sources, and yet you say we need to discuss it first but you never give me an answer. Dispicable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk • contribs) 20:32, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

You have yet to offer a single source. Ford MF (talk) 18:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Rape

I do not think a suitable introduction to Tupac's page should list a rape case. Should this not be listed further down under a sub catergory of say, conroversy or legal cases. I have mentioned this before and you have not replied. ARROGANT. Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk) 17:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

lol give me a break... even most of his fans know the guy was a scumbag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.176.235 (talk) 12:08, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Shakur's criminal offending was a major part of his life, he was an active violent criminal for years. This article does not mention all of his lawbreaking. Qzm (talk) 13:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Rolling Stones Immortals Greatest Artist of All Time

Tupac Rolling Stone http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/7249932/the_immortals__the_greatest_artists_of_all_time_86_tupac_shakur I have changed the page accordingly.Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk) 17:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Billy Garland (Ex-Black Panther)

Can we have Tupac's real father mentioned on this page. I'm actually quite surprised that he is not on here.....Is there a specific reason why??? If not can you add him here and stop deleting my contributions please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk • contribs) 17:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

November 1994 shooting: 5 or 6 bullet wounds?

Quote from article: "According to the doctors at Bellevue Hospital, where he was admitted immediately following the incident, Shakur had received five bullet wounds; twice in the head, twice in the groin and once through the arm and thigh." 2 head wounds, 2 wounds in the groin, 1 in the arm and 1 in the thigh, that adds up to 6 bullet wounds, while the same sentence states he only had 5 bullet wounds. Can somebody please correct or explain this part of the article? Teleevisie (talk) 04:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

It seemed clear enough to me that one bullet passed through his arm and then into or through his thigh. Whether this counts as six wounds or as wounds from five bullets seems to be splitting hairs. 99.51.74.201 (talk) 02:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Rumors he's still alive...

Just curious if it would be considered notable that many "conspiracy theorists" seem to believe he's still alive, mostly due to the large number of posthumous releases. It's all speculation and original research of course, but it has made it's way into pop culture fairly consistently - the one that comes to mind first was on Dave Chapelle's show, where they had a skit of Tupac's "new song" that actually commented on the events occurring in the club while the record was playing... I would think that if any books had been written about the subject then it would have citations, and it could be considered a part of his legacy. Enigmatic2k3 (talk) 18:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Such a section would be fine so long as there are verifiable sources, if any exist that is. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I came here precisely to suggest this. The reason I searched for this article was to read about it. Whether or not he is still alive is irrelevant in my view...there are constant rumors of this fact and it is widely discussed. I don't have time to add the section but it would be great if somebody could. I think it might even be a solid candidate for a separate articleDegenFarang (talk) 09:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Ditto, here. I came to this specifically to read about it. It doesn't matter if it's true or not - the theory that he is still alive is such part of the discussion on 2Pac that it almost seems crazy that it doesn't get mentioned at all on this page. Razordu30 (talk) 05:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this should be added to a conspiracy theory page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.11.9.98 (talk • contribs)

They're not just rumors, they're facts. 2Pac is now hiding out with Elvis and Colonel Sanders. They fight government sponsored alien colonization.

Bobby Boucher55 (talk) 03:04, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

2 Pac has sold over 50 million in U.S. alone

The article states in the biginning that 2 Pac has sold over 50 million record in U.S. alone, the source of which re-directs to another wikipedia page. Well, how could this be correct if RIAA's total sales in Gold/Platinum for 2 Pac does not surpass the 36.5 million? I'm sure there are albums/singles that have not reached the Gold-certification level; therefore, the small numbers of which are not included within the 36.5 million. But I'm certain that even with those numbers included the total sales could not exceed the 40 million boarder for U.S. market. In addition, 2 Pac has not had great success in other larger music markets including UK's ( 1 Gold and 1 Platinum) and Germany's (2 Golds), that's roughly 700,000 for UK and another 700,000 for Germany. He simply could not have sold enough outside the USA's market to reach 75 million records in total as the article states. --Harout72 (talk) 23:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• I removed the ref.XXL supporting the total sales figure of 75 million albums world-wide and the 55 million in U.S. which only stated that the ref. is from October 2006 issue. If it really is from the October 2006 issue of XXL then we need more specifics about the reference such as exact page number and the name of the article as well as the name of the author not to mention the entire statement that talks about the sales figures for verifiability purposes, see WP:CS, [3].--Harout72 (talk) 23:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, but you are forgetting the fact he has sold numberous of albums, singles worldwide!! Not just in the U.S, U.K and germany alone, he has sold records WORLD WIDE!! This would surely add up to his total sale figures! And not to forget the numberous collaboration albums hes done also and appearances on official soundtracks for movies he's starred in. 2Pac is a well know figure world wide, and the 75 million records should be added back in if it is official in the guiness book of records! 21st February, 2009 14:47 CET.

Harout72 seems to have a personal grief over Tupac selling more than 75 million records. He will be reported if this continues to be edited Roscoe1874 (talk) 03:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Roscoe1874, you need to provide a reliable source, I have nothing personal against Shakur's music; in fact, I am not even familiar with any of his materials. However, one must respect the WP:RS policy. I have already discussed the reliability of this source at the talk-page of List of best-selling music artists. I believe, the 70 million figure in albums sales is quite plausible as it is stated within this reliable source, since this seems to be the only reliable source at the moment, why not also use it here. If you or others believe Shakur's sales has surpassed that figure, that's fine by me as long as there is a reliable source provided.--Harout72 (talk) 05:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

It was stated that he is the highest selling rap artist of all time in the Guinness book of World Records (issue 2004). I have the issue myself but can't seem to find an online source. Guiness World Records don't seem to have an online print version of their records (obviously for monetary reasons).

As far as Tupac not being impressive in sales in the UK, so far I have found he has been in the top ten at least twice in the last decade alone. Even having a christmas number one! And stayed at number one over the Christmas period for 3 weeks, from December 2005 to January 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1393662.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4692177.stm http://www.number-ones.co.uk/2Pac-number-ones/Ghetto-Gospel.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.101.86 (talk) 23:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

High chart positions normally have enormous effect on the sales of artists only if they remain within the Top 10 for many consecutive weeks. Such; however, is not the case with Shakur's UK positions, since his sales is not very impressive in the UK as well as in other European major teritories including (Germany. In the same vein, he doesn't seem to have a single Gold or Platinum in South America's two major markets, Brazil and Mexico. That said, Shakur's 85-90 percent of sales should be coming from US market. By the way, the third source that is provided above is completely unreliable, not that the content within would prove anything otherwise even it was reliable.--Harout72 (talk) 00:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I've finally found a reliable source so I've altered it. It states over 75 million although I know its over 80 but I've added it to the page. Cheers Roscoe1874 (talk) 03:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

LastFM is not a reliable source and the use of this source should not be allowed anywhere within wikipedia.--Harout72 (talk) 04:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Poetry

My English teacher told me that she had taught a piece of poetry that was from a book that 2Pac wrote. Could someone look that up? She said the particular poem she taught was called something like "A Rose in the Concrete." Strobes13 (talk) 17:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you're looking for The Rose That Grew from Concrete or The Rose, Vol. 2? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:37, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Whatever happened with 2pac's case?

we all know he was bailed out by suge knight while the case was on appeal. But what happened? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.146.77 (talk) 08:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The following paagraph needs to be corrected:

"At the hospital, Shakur was in and out of consciousness, was heavily sedated, was breathing through a ventilator and respirator, was placed on life support machines, and was ultimately put under a barbiturate-induced coma after repeatedly trying to get out of the bed."

I recommend rewriting the passage as follows:

""At the hospital, Shakur was in and out of consciousness, heavily sedated, breathing through a ventilator (commonly referred to as life support), and ultimately put under a barbiturate-induced coma after repeatedly trying to get out of the bed."

Specifically, life support comprises such machines as ventilators (commonly and mistakenly called respirators), bypass machines (used in open heart surgery), intra-aortic balloon pumps, and other more invasive devices. As a victim of a gunshot who had undergone a pneumonectomy, he would have been on a ventilator, and this alone would have constituted life support. Ggalvan (talk) 02:30, 8 January 2009 (UTC)G. Galván, Ph.D., RRT-NPS, RPFT

Individual(s)

"At approximately 11:15 p.m., a white, four-door, late-model Cadillac driven by unknown individual(s)..." Now, really? You can't see the problem with that sentence? How can a car have more than one driver? That is the laughing matter. The other people in the car would be passengers, unless they had an arrangement where one guy was working the pedals and one guys was steering, but the sources do not support that presumption. This is the clarity issue, not a content issue. That sentence makes it appear that there were multiple drivers of the single car. ColorOfSuffering (talk) 23:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

MTV greatest mc position

it says number 2 at the top, but number 1 in the honors section, i know their technically different awards but its a bit confusing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.103.44 (talk) 12:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

yer i think we should remove the mtv number 2 text as there have been many other awards in which his importance has varied. what makes the mtv award more relevant than the countless other rewards? i believe we should delete that bit off text in the article as the it could easily be misinterpreted to contradict earlier parts of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 04dejand (talk • contribs) 22:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Notorious?

The movie notorious shouldn't be among his film roles since he wasn't in the movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.7.183 (talk) 03:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Photo of "last moment alive"

The photo was supposedly taken the night of September 7th, yet Tupac Shakur did not die until September 13th. Perhaps the photo description should be edited to clarify that it was the last known picture of him alive, rather than his last moment alive. 76.26.105.4 (talk) 02:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)Carlos J Martinez76.26.105.4 (talk) 02:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Removed information on Tupac

i have always enjoyed reading on tupac shakur,i have read your site atleast 6 times in the past,while trying to make a point to a friend , i noticed that certain info on tupac had been removed. you earlier stated that he had sold over 75 million copies and had mentioned more elaborately on other music projects including facts like he has released more albums than most rappers arrond.why have these facts been taken out? Daniel . London —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.49.150 (talk) 13:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Because eventually Tupac won't release any more albums. And the fact that he released twelve albums from 1991-2006 isn't noteable. Because that's it. It's been three years since the last album and no word of another one has come up. And artists such as Nas, Jay-Z, Busta Rhymes, Ice Cube are still alive making music and will eventually pass him. 23:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

2Pac was, still and will always be the "greatest rapper of all time!" So delete the sentence about 2Pac being ranked nr 2 on the Mtv survey! —Preceding unsigned comment added by TauLanD (talk • contribs) 18:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Saying he is the greatest is a bias comment which Wikipedia avoids. (I do agree that he is though.) SE KinG. User page. Talk. 23:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

2009?

In 2009, Canadian record label, WIDEawake Enertainment, purchased the remaining Death Row Records assets that were auctioned off in 2008. The purchase included a 7,000 unreleased music cateloge that features music from Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Tupac, among other Death Row artists. WIDEawake Entertainment CEO, John Payne said that "the people that I saw who were looking to make the purchase were going to take Death Row in the wrong direction and do a lot of the stuff that’s been done to the 2Pac catalog—overproduce it, wash it out and mix it incorrectly." He later went on to say he will keep unreleased tracks as original as possible. The two CEO's said that they will begin to release the content in 2010, focusing on box sets and compilation packaging. Lara Lavi, co-CEO, said that a Tupac album won't be released until after Spring of 2010.

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/features/id.1320/title.death-row-records-the-pardon/p.1

I do believe a lot of this information is interesting and should be included into the article. The text above is a very quick rough draft of some important information. I would like some other people to weigh into the discussion. SE KinG. User page. Talk. 23:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree. That information is small, and not really valuable in a Tupac article. It seems more like a press opp for WIDEawake than informative for Tupac inquirers. --FrossBitten (talk) 05:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Likely vandal at Tupac Shakur

The following has been copy-pasted from WP:AN/I:

An editor named User:Johnnymurda is causing some disruption in the article over the rapper's past sex offenses. See Johnnymurda's contributions and Talk:Tupac Shakur#Tupac Hater Sesshomaru. (S)he asked for a source, I provided two reliable ones, and yet this user is still acting quite uncivil and is reverting my edits (for no reason really). I am now thinking that this isn't a good faith editor anymore, but purely a disrupter. Some administrative action would make a difference here. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Gave them a first warning on npa and civil editing and agf... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks man. May you add Tupac Shakur to your watchlist if you haven't already? An extra set of eyes might be fruitful. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Try [4] NYT "Tupac Shakur, the wounded rap performer who was convicted of felony sex-abuse charges last week." which rather seems to state that he was convicted of a felony sex crime. Dozens more cites for the NYT on this. [5] "He served nine months on a sexual-abuse conviction, accused of raping a fan in Manhattan. " He was on bail pending appeal of the felony when he died. Collect (talk) 12:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah they're edit warring over a content dispute, see section immediately below this one, "Vandalism by Sesshomaru". KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism by Sesshomaru

An editor who goes by the name Sesshomaru has been making falsehood claims about rapper Tupac Shakur of being a sex offender. he/she has not shown any solid proof that the rapper is a sex offender, no documents, no web sites,no nothing. the so called source that Sesshomaru provided were not reliable Enough to Categorized Tupac has a sex offender. Sesshomaru didn't even get this so called source from any web site, it was fake. It's funny how Sesshomaru had a talk with other editor named Wakamusha who has since retired had a discussion back in August 2008 about Tupac being Categorized has a sex offender.see Talk:Tupac_Shakur#Category:American_sex_offenders. Wakamusha and Sesshomaru agreed that tupac should be in the Category:American criminals instead of Category:American sex offenders. now for some reason he/she had a change of heart and decided to put tupac back in the Category:American sex offenders list for whatever reason I don't know. this person is WAY TO OBSESSED CATEGORIZED TUPAC HAS A SEX OFFENDER and it is getting very annoying.Johnnymurda (talk) 01:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

You are both guilty of edit warring over a content dispute. Article edit protected for 3 days; I'm not blocking either of you for your WP:3RR violations, but be aware next time it might be different, depending on circumstances and which admin takes a look. You two need to discuss this ont eh article talk page and work things out. KillerChihuahua^?!? 05:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand Johnnymurda's issue. How do those two links fail WP:RELY and how are they "fake"? The reason (I believe) why Shakur wasn't categorized as a convicted sex offender before was that there was no source explicitly stating it. Now that a few have been added, Johnnymurda is still against the cited facts and reverts for inexplicable reasons. Could someone solve this madness? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

This is what im talking about, Sesshomaru believe's that a person who commits a sexual crime are automatically a registered sex offender.each case is different form the other and Sesshomaru doesn't seem to get that. there are many articals on 2pac that says he was he was convicted of sexual abuse (forcibly touching the buttocks). i'm 100% sure that none of these articals say anything about 2pac being a sex offender..Johnnymurda (talk) 09:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

But there are two sites that support my theory. Johnnymurda, if you really think that Rollingstone.com and Streetgangs.com are "unofficial" or "false", you have to back up your claims with very reliable references (and no, your own logic does not count). Inclusively, you still have not explained why Category:Freestyle rappers should be listed on his page twice. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

If you only rely on Rollingstone.com and Streetgangs.com than your not really doing a good job. about the Category:Freestyle rappers i never put that on the tupac artical, so I don't know were you got that from. if you check my Johnnymurda Contributions it will clearly show that I have never put that there, so what are you taking about? Johnnymurda (talk) 12:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Still not a valid excuse to disregard those citations. And don't think lying will help your case, you put the category there twice just to annoy me. See this and this. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Your source are so weak it's not even funny. Lying to me is not gonna help your case my friend so don't make an ass out of yourself. I will proof to you that I didn't put the Category:Freestyle rappers on tupac's artical for the last time. I did my investigation on the person who added the Category on tupacs artical. An editor who goes by the name of Therainbow (See:Therainbow Edit) was the frist person to put the Category on there. I didn't even notice that unit you mention it. The Category:Freestyle rappers has been on tupacs artical for close to 2 years now and no one has remove it. you're like an annoying house fly that just won't go away stop it. Johnnymurda (talk) 11:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Read WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Guess we should continue this nonsense at Talk:Tupac Shakur, and a third opinion might help. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 13:07, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Third opinion?

The definition of a sexual offender, as quoted from the Wikipedia page, is: A sex offender (short for sexual offender) is a person who has been criminally charged and convicted of, or has pled "guilty" or Nolo contendere to, a sex crime. Seeing as you both agree that Tupac Shakur was convicted of a sexual crime, it follows logic, then, that he can be described as a sexual offender. And by the way, I checked the page history to make sure that neither of you had edited to that page before this argument started.--Iner22 (talk) 16:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

By that logic, do you agree that this revision was more suitable? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:52, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Looking back at your previous discussion with Wakamusha, I would say that you could keep Johnnymurda's revision, but add that he could also be disputably called a sexual offender.--Iner22 (talk) 16:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, there are reliable references saying that he was a convicted sex offender. Johnnymurda has not shown any source(s) that contradict this statement. Also, what is your opinion on the category? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

There is no reliable soruce backing Sesshomaru calim that Tupac is a sex offender. He keeps saying that there is but no hasn't shown me any valid source. Johnnymurda (talk) 2:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Johnny - I don't want to be rude, but you're not making any sense. You admit he's been convicted of sex crimes, but disagree that he's a sex offender? That seems to disagree with common sense and with the numerous sources presented.

Please don't be disruptive. You're not making a subtle point of definition or grammar. The facts are what they are. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 19:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Johnny, you should read my opinion again. If you have properly read it, you will realize that your comments make no sense.--Iner22 (talk) 19:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Agree with editors above, Johnny, you don't appear to be making sense with your denial. A sourced conviction for sex crimes makes you a sex offender. Unless you can show evidence that indicates otherwise, you appear to be fighting a losing battle. Dayewalker (talk) 22:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll request unprotection since consensus is in favour of these edits. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:34, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, it seems that the page lock expired but I restored my changes anyway. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Just because someone is convicted of Sex Crimes, does not mean they are a sexual offender... have you ever heard of false convictions? Unless through admittance, by Tupac himself, either through a guilty plea, or evidence, one cannot always assume the courts are right, special when it comes to rape charges, where women often have other motifs for their accusations including money, compensation or defamation. It should be noted in the article what Tupacs plea was in the courts.--94.193.135.142 (talk) 04:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I hate to disagree with you straight off, but when you say "just because someone is convicted of Sex Crimes, does not mean they are a sexual offender," you're incorrect by the very definition of "sex offender." Dayewalker (talk) 04:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It seems you're uptake on my comment is wrong. To be a sexual offender qualifies in Tupacs case, but in my reply above, I meant that it does not mean they are a sexual offender by action or truth even if the conviction stands. E.g. Just because soso is convicted of murder does not mean they are an murderer. He plead not guilty to the primary offense which I have now found out, which is very important in his representation. He stressed his innocence right until the end, and to be honest, this article pays little emphasis on the actuality over the courts decision. --94.193.135.142 (talk) 10:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't matter how far he stretched his innocence, he wasn't acquited of the three sex charges. The article even details this. Why are you making a big deal out of it anyway? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Err, what?

"IT HAS JUST BEEN CONFIRMED THAT A MISS LAONI C COOPER IS THE KILLER OF TUPAC A SHAKUR AND SHE HAS BEEN JAILED FOR ATLEAST 3 MONTHS." Really? Anyway, this obviously shouldn't be here, but I can't edit it out. Would someone who is able remove it please? Mokonor (talk) 22:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

This was vandalism on the Tupac Shakur template. I went ahead and cleaned it up. Thanks for the heads up. Rnb (talk) 22:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The date Tupac died

In the article, it says "He died six days later of respiratory failure and cardiac arrest at the University Medical Center.[8]". Many people believe that he died 7 days later, because he died on the 13th and was shot on the 6th. Many people subtract 6 from 13 and reach 7. So I think the sentence should be reworded, so it shows the accurate date he died on, since it states the accurate date he was shot on. Its interesting to many people if they think it was 7 days. So my suggestion is that you change it from "He died six days later of respiratory failure" to "He died on September 13th, 1996 of respiratory failure". —Preceding unsigned comment added by FortPierce (talk • contribs) 16:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

New user, Better content, expansion on article

Hello, I am a new used who is eager to contribute positively to Tupac's wikipedia page. I have found amazing references and sources for his wikipedia page to help expand the information left on him. I am having problems editing as its semi-protected? Any ideas? --FrossBitten (talk) 04:51, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Also, this article is lacking a lot. The section on rapping is so minimal. Tupac is one of the greatest artists alive and hardly any information is available on him. More negative then positive from what I am seeing thus far. How can i be apart of editing? --FrossBitten (talk) 04:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Tupac's picture

I'm not editing this page or anything, but I really wish that we could use a nice picture for 2Pac. I mean look at Biggie's page...they have a decent picture of him.

Come on. Can someone please add a picture that looks good.

I like visiting 2Pac's Wikipedia page.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.17.157 (talk) 03:59, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

The new photo of his wax figure is a terrible photo to have on this article. --12.50.227.175 (talk) 05:11, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2pac#Murder_case - The following paragraph should be removed. The entire paragraph is untrue, but I've highlighted the part that is especially idiotic.

"Despite what many people say about the murder, Tupac's own bullet was the one that fatally killed him. He shot from a .22 caliber pistol, aimed at rival gangster Biggy Smalls. Biggy Smalls had a jelly belly and the bullet sunk into his stomach but then with one puff of his jelly belly, Biggy shot the bullet, with his stomach, right back at Tupac. With perfect aim, the bullet penetrated Tupac's heart." DeuceBigalowMD (talk) 23:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

^i agree with deucebigalowmd it makes perfect sense —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.37.244.48 (talk) 12:14, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

7 day theory

How come there's no mention of the 7 day theory?--Kingforaday1620 (talk) 22:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Because there are no reliable sources perhaps? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Is he alive?

Should there be a section that relates to the speculation of whether or not he is actually still alive?

he's deff alive

It is proven fact he died in 1996. Claims to the contrary are conspiracy theories, like those claiming that other dead celebrities are alive. Qzm (talk) 13:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Introduction is biased

I have read and studied the life of Tupac Shakur and feel the introduction to his biopage in Wikipedia is completely biased. For example, it states "he was a promising actor and activist", but fails to state that he was also a gang member in Oakland, who routinely was involved in gang shooting wars and a convicted felon and rapist. Just for comparison, Al Capone's page states him as a convicted gangster. The next sentence is also not representative of the totality of his work, especially after when he was shoot in the studio. His work not only is "about growing up amid violence and hardship in ghettos, racism, problems in society and conflicts with other rappers. Shakur's work is known[3] for advocating political, economic, social and racial equality." It is should include the terms "controversial, advocates the use of violence against groups and police, and steriotypes women and their roles". In fact, a lot of his songs have been contested by human rights organizations and the feminist movement. I do not condone an open wikipedia article being maintained and shepherded by Tupac fans... You cannot rewrite history or the facts to put a controversial figure in a "better light". Let us each one decide for ourselves, if he was a "hero" "activist" or not... His music has promoted good and bad, and he himself was a person involved with lots of violent, controversial incidents, provoked by him and his entourage or by competing gangs... Not a saint for sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramflabr (talk • contribs) 21:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

No information about his death in infobox

Could someone put back the date of his death in the infobox. It now states that he is 38 years old while there is not a single clue of evidence of him still being alive. TroughTimeAndSpace (talk) 18:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

"Stretch's" shooting?

Under November 1994 shooting it currently states:

"...In the day that followed, Shakur entered the courthouse in a wheelchair and was found guilty of three counts of molestation, but innocent of six others, including sodomy. On February 6, 1995, he was sentenced to one-and-a-half to four-and-a-half years in prison on a sexual assault charge.[32]

On November 30, 1995, exactly one year to the day of the shooting, Stretch was killed in an execution-style murder in Queens.

On March 27, 2008, the LA Times issued an apology to Combs for blaming him for having a role in the '94 attack on Shakur..."

The bit about his friend being fatally shot seems awkward and out of place - does anyone agree? If so, could someone more familiar with this article adjust that somehow? I'm not sure if it belongs at all, to be honest... Kailey elise (talk) 20:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Origin

His origin should be oakland seeing as thats where he started rapping and was discoverednTheRemedy42 (talk) 08:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Picture

I know this has been brought up before, but really, is this the best picture we can get, people? A picture displaying 2pac with his iconic bandana and nose ring would be a much better representation of him, or at least a picture of his showing him flashing the Thug Life sign. I don't know the wikipedia policy on pictures, but if someone would be so kind as ro enlighten me, I would be happy to find a fitting picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.175.33 (talk) 07:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)