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Talk:Shinzo Abe/Archive 1

< Talk:Shinzo Abe
Latest comment: 1 year ago by EvergreenFir in topic Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2022
Archive 1

Picture?

Latest comment: 15 years ago13 comments7 people in discussion

What are you, registered users, doing? Nobody needs to tell you that your Infobox image (Image:Shinzo Abe Sept. 8, 2007 cropped.jpg) for PM Shinzo Abe is not appropriate! What is a Japanese PM doing in front of British Flag? Please, replace the image asap with an image with better background, perhaps with Japanese flag in the background. Nihonjin2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nihonjin2 (talk • contribs) 07:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It makes sense that as Mr. Abe is the new prime minister of Japan we put up a more updated picture, but isn't the Image:Shinzo Abe.jpg picture much more "official" looking? Should we not put that one on the article instead? Chef Ketone 23:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

  • I put a variation of that exact photo Nubbie44 01:26, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  • A copyright violation. Wikipeda should use free media where it has it.--Peta 01:28, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Ya happy now? Nubbie44 01:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
    • No. We have free alteratives, there is no rationale for fair use in that case, wee WP:FUC. --Peta 01:37, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Listen the picture your using now looks AWFUL--Nubbie44 01:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Yes, it's awful. Maybe we should remove it, but please don't replace it with some image taken from another website without ascertaining the copyright status. -- PFHLai 03:58, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Oh so it's a copyright violation...I had seen no reason why it was taken off. Now that makes sense. Thanks for the info, Peta. Chef Ketone 01:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
      • No that it was not, seriously from the governments website, what do you think, just use some common sense. Nubbie44 01:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
        • That depends on which government. In the US, federal government ? That's PD. State governments ? That varies from state to state. The copyright laws are also different from country to country. -- PFHLai 03:58, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Erm, what is that in his hand :S Jackpot Den 16:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Although it is probably equally inappropriate, that flag behind him is not of the UK but of Australia. The photo itself is an excerpt of Abe with U.S. President Bush.Mal7798 (talk) 05:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Political leanings

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm a bit wary of the attempt to pigeonhole Abe's ideology in the "Possible Prime Minister" section. For instance, the differences between Abe and Foreign Minister Taro Aso is more about style rather than substance. Now, the blog to which the citation links thinks otherwise, but I'm a bit wary of relying on such sources for Wikipedia entries. I'd say Abe's thinking is certainly right-wing, and definitely closer to Aso's than to Taku Yamasaki's (please see: [1]). Yamasaki definitely takes a softer line than Abe and Aso on FP issues, especially with his recent trips to Asian countries. But I'm not sure if it's also worth mentioning him as a leading candidate to replace Koizumi - for one, he's off the radar in most opinion pools. In all, I think this section needs a little re-write with more sources noted. I'll try working on that when I get the chance. Tettyan 02:35, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Possible Prime Minister

Latest comment: 17 years ago6 comments4 people in discussion

Wikipedia is a not news site nor is it a soapbox. Therefore, it is our opinion that current events should not be included within this column. If you really want to write about Abe's foreign policy, you should refer not only to current events but also the historical context. In other words, let's not include every single daily press release he makes. As of now, most of the section entitled "Possible Prime Minister" refers to the preceding day. Gegesongs 15:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

What can be said with accuracy is that Shinzo Abe is a conservative Japanese politician.


Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe is the front-runner to become Japan's next prime minister. His attitude toward Yasukuni shrine is an important issue because its relation to japanese foreign policy. ANY source including news article can be used to mention this.

'Abe's visit to yasukuni' FACT

'Criticisms from China and Korea' FACT

They are FACTS from the news article.

There are numerous Wikipedia articles use news article as a reference. I think keep deleting contents because they are from news article is nonsense.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gegesongs"

Huh? I agree with your assertion that "Yasukuni issue is important". But the issue is a current event. If you continue to write the issue which is related to Abe and Yasukuni, this article is nothing but the issue of Yasukuni. I must say that over and over again. Wikipedia is NOT news site. Gegesongs 17:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

What is your definition of 'current event'? Do you think yasukuni should not be mentioned because it is a current event? Or is there another reason? Why you keep deleting whole contents related to Yasukuni? Do you think it is not worth to be mentioned? --Crmtm 22:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

You are so weak reader. Please read my post again. Do you want write this article specialized article for Yasukuni? [2]
Wikipedia is not news site and soapbox. We should not write current event. If you really want to write Abe's foreign policy, you should refer only to not current event but fact of the past. Do we write every daily press release? Of course NOT. Now, most of this article "Possible Prime Minister" refer to the nearest preceding day.
I agree with your assertion that "Yasukuni issue is important". But the issue is a current event. If you continue to write the issue which is related to Abe and Yasukuni, this article is nothing but the issue of Yasukuni. I must say that over and over again. Wikipedia is NOT news site.
I know what you mean, but Wikipedia is not soapbox of Chinese and Korean. If you are a functional adult, you had better listen to what someone says. Do you want Wikipedia to be a soapbox, huh? Gegesongs 14:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
It is very unlikely that Shinzo Abe will not visiting Yasukuni Shrine if he becomes the Prime Minister, considering that his maternal grandmother was one of the Class-A war criminals who were enshrined there (the one who later became a Prime Minister.) So, if Abe does become the Prime Minister, the relations between Japan and China/South Korea will most likely not improve and remain in a stalemate for some time. ktchong 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Calm down everyone! Wikipedia is neither a news site nor a soapbox, but if there is relevent information regarding the individual in the biography, it should be noted. Yasukuni is a poltical issue, and as a politician, Abe's position on Yasukuni is definitely relelvant to his biography. ktchong, I don't want to get too involved in this discussion, but I want to correct some factual accuracies in your note. Abe's grandfather (Nobusuke Kishi) was arrrested by the Americans as an accused Class-A war criminal, but he never stood trial for this charge, and was released after the end of the American occupation. Therefore, Kishi is not a Class-A war criminal. He also is not enshrined at Yasukuni, as he did not die as a war victim (in addition to those soldiers who actually died in war, the only others enshrined there are the 14 convicted Class-A war criminals who were excecuted by the Americans, as Yasukuni considers them to be "war victims". Regards, Tettyan 06:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Seeing as Abe has been chosen (as of today) to be Japan's new prime minister, his stance on these issues certaintly seems relevant to his article. Note that George_W._Bush's article contains information about his foreign policy. So as Abe begins to state his goals and policies (his term will begin on the 30th) the article should be updated to reflect these facts. That said, it is important to keep the article factual and without opinion. - PhoenixPinion 18:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Possible Vandalism

Latest comment: 16 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I just deleted 'Uniquely among senior Japanese politicians, he was born with a small vestigial tail.'. This may be entirely true, but there is no citation and I couldn't find anything about it in a quick google search. Without a cite, I think it's better to remove and consider it vandalism then let it rest, as it is more or less useless. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.136.112.197 (talk • contribs) 2006-08-10T10:49:42.

Your anti-vestigial-tail POV-pushing has no place on this article. I've reverted your vandalism and am adding Shinzo Abe to the "People born with vestigial tails" category. You have no right to deny readers access to this vital bit of information about a potential world leader. --Wclark 19:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I actually totally support vestigial tail people and think they make the best leaders. But I agree this 'fact' had to go because it is completely unsourced. Claiming someone was born with a vestigial tail when they were not is highly offensive to the vestigial tail community and dilutes their rightful claim to superiority! :-P Nil Einne 20:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

THere is some serious vandalism in this article - mr rat and mr fat? wtf? somebody wake up hicks

I'm taking out "daughter of suspected Class A war criminal Nobusuke Kishi " and replacing it with "daughter of Nobusuke Kishi," because I do not see any citations concerning it. Devon.underwood (talk) 21:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Faction section

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Information from Japanese Wikipedia Fg2 06:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if the topics that were written in this section, Response to mass media, are appropriate topics to be reported or not.
This is tricky article because the original news is said that the scoop had been fabricated by Mr. Honda who is the writer of Asahi-Shinbun, therefore I think this article is written for the purpose to do negative campaign against Mr. Abe.
There is wrong information in the original news. And Mr.Honda has not able to show the evidence about his report. In the fact, Asahi-Shinbun has been saying only just, "We believe him." There is the evidence that tells the news could be fabricatedby Mr.Honeda. The date when Mr. Honda reported Mr. Nakagawa had met with the manager of NHK was wrong. Mr. Nakagawa confirmed his schedules and announced it. Mr. Nakagawa said that the date of the meeting with the manager had been held two days later from the program had gone to the on air.

And the news about what Tokyo Broadcasting System(TBS) did is not Mr. Abe's problem
but TBS. If you read the article you will see it. There are not any relation, critiques or facts based on Mr. Abe's political activities in the news that TBS originally reported . Therefore, Mr. Abe and audience naturally think that TBS has used Mr. Abe's image as subliminal on purpose.

I think that the original events have been created by anti Mr. Abe group to contribute their convenient news to public like Wikipedia or correspondents from another countries. Actually, in the section of Asahi Shimbun and Tokyo Broadcasting System of the Wikipedia English, there are no information that relate to this. Why we can see these news information in Shinzo Abe section only? by rika at January 04, 2007

Do any registered users also agree it's a good idea to remove the following sentence from the faction section?: "Mr. Abe visited China and South Korea shortly after took office." What does this have to do with factions? In my opinion, nothing whatsoever, but since I'm unregistered I'll leave it up to you. Thanks 210.20.86.85 13:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed comparison with US

Advisors in the United States are part of the Executive Office of the President and not part of the Cabinet.

Grammar & Spelling

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Section 2.2 has various grammar and spelling errors. Maybe a cleanup tag shoud be added? (Or, if anyone wants to take a look.) aenariel 09:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

On the Kono statement

Latest comment: 17 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

One particular issue I believe should be made clear in this article is the fact Prime minister Abe's endorsement of the Kono statement does not necessarily imply the revision of his opinion regarding the issue of comfort women, for he has made clear he distinguished between two different kinds of coercion: coercion in the narrow sense of the word, or the use of force by the Japanese Government to recruit young women for comfort stations, and coercion in the broad sense of the world, which implies women often resorted to prostitution due to environmental factors, like poverty. With this in mind, Abe supports the Kono statment and believes Japan should apologize for having created a situation in which women often had to sacrifice themselves as prostitutes to support their families, but believes there is no evidence of coercion in the narrow sense of the word. -- Ishikawa Minoru 23:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

How much do you want to narrow it down? 簡単な言い訳です。--LordofHavoc 18:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite understand what you mean by "narrowing it down".
Based on my understanding of the Prime minister's comments over the past years, the present article presents its readers with innacurate information when it claims Abe's public endorsement of the Kono statement marked a departure from his previously held beliefs.
I would have changed this myself, but at the moment I can't quite find an aesthetically appealing way of doing so. In my opinion, the article should be edited in such a manner as to allow Mr.Abe's 1997 and 2006 comments to follow from a brief summary of the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform's stance and purpose, though I am not quite sure how this can be accomplished, in definite, pragmatic terms. -- Ishikawa Minoru 20:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Textbook Revision

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I was just wondering if I could get some clarification on an internal inconsistency in the article. Did Abe "lead" the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform as stated in one section or "support" this organization. My understanding is that Abe was not stated as a member of the actual committee, though he supported their viewpoints. Can anyone show some proof that he was a member? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.54.100.103 (talk) 01:48, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

2007 election

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There is an election going right now in Japan where Abe is running to keep his job. This fact and the issues involved in the election I think should be put into the article. So far the biggest things that are discussed in this election is the mismanagement of the pension system, amending the constitution to allow non self defense military action, a family values class in schools and extending school hours. There is also a lot of talk about the high number of Cabinet apointees that have resigned after some sort of scandal as this comes very early in his administration. One Cabinet member even commited suicide. One Cabinet member that everyone thought would have to resign after making what many are calling an insensitive remark about women did not after all resign but another that repeated the remark of an American about the Atomic Bomb did. I am sure someone more qualified then me will be able to gather the proper sources so this information can be added to the aticle.--Billiot 03:00, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Religion

Latest comment: 16 years ago9 comments4 people in discussion

I added Buddhism in infoboxes of recent four prime ministers of Japan, Keizo Obuchi, Yoshiro Mori, Junichiro Koizumi, Shinzo Abe. Their families (and Obuchi himself) was buried in the Buddhist style. Their visits to shrines, such as Yasukuni, don't mean that their religious affiliations are only Shinto. Amagase 07:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I think we should remove both Buddhism and Shinto. Does anyone have any reliable source to back up the claim that his religion is buddhism and shinto? That their families are buried in the buddhist temple doesn't make him buddhist, just as, say, if the couple is married in the Christian church doesn't make them Christians. -- Taku 12:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Most of Japanese believe both Shinto and Buddhism, as enrolled faithfuls. They are not in relation "either/or". See articles about both religions. In this case, both should be remarked. --Aphaia 08:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I agree that most do and this most would "most likely" include him. (I noticed that Japan says "Around 84% of Japanese people profess to believe both Shinto (the indigenous religion of Japan) and Buddhism.") So, I am now less sure about what should be done, but I still think we have to be careful in this kind of classification matter. I know we frequently assume, say, when we write some article on a Japanese person, the person has Japanese citizenship, as we assume he is Japanese. But since the personal view of the leader of the country (he is no longer one though) has such a significant implication, we shouldn't make such quick assumptions. I revise my proposal a bit. Until we found reliable sources on Shinzo's religion, we should put "unknown", "unclassified" or something as his religion. (and do the similar for other prime ministers articles). It is almost certain (again not-so-careful assumption) that he is not an atheists or even agnosticist either, but saying even that would be problematic. -- Taku 09:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
His commitment is obvious and public. As for Shinto, he visited Ise Shrine for prayer (photo provided by Abe Shinzo Office website (beta)) and the General Secreatry of "Shinto Politics Association", Shinto faithful lawmakers (list). Perhaps only LDP people join this association and it doesn't mean people who don't join it is not a Shinto believer, but anyway he publishes his commitement quite visibly.
As for Buddhism, his position is obvious from http://press.jodo.or.jp/press/2003/03/news.html: according to this page, he was the Excecutive Secretary of a certain Buddhist sect faithful lawmakers. While there seems to be no published list, we have no reason he left this association. --Aphaia 01:59, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
If we are sure (i.e., have sources backing up the claim), then I don't have any problem. Thanks for finding them, though. -- Taku 23:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
He's married to a woman who's probably Catholic, which could mean that he's that. We can't really assume. The Pope kiss the Qu'ran, that doesn't make him Muslim. Therequiembellishere 23:24, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
In Japan, Therequiembellishere, many Catholics marry non-Catholics. His wife's religion is her, not necessarily him. --Aphaia 01:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know the Roman Catholic Church allowed that. o.O Therequiembellishere 02:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Image

Latest comment: 16 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Isn't the main image wrong? It looks nowhere like Shinzo Abe. Can someone please rectify? --122.162.68.105 11:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. --122.162.68.105 11:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It's Pat Morita. Mstislava 11:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

the image is way wrong. it brings a laugh at least- anon

it was a picture of miyagi-san, an unfortunate vandalism incidence. Klael 11:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

GAC?

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This seems like a pretty complete, well sourced article.... When the resignation thing settles down, it should probably be taken to GAC.--SidiLemine 15:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Shortest duration?

Latest comment: 16 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

If he was prime minster for the shortest amount of time, it's worth mentioning that in the intro right after the sentence about his resignation. Was he? Tempshill 22:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, God, no. They have been much shorter PMs, not including PMs ad interim. Therequiembellishere 23:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
And one more point. He stated he would be to resign, but not yet. Legally he is still in the office, even if he is in a hospital and completely a lame duck for now. --Aphaia 11:23, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Health

Latest comment: 11 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Apparently Abe has been having some health problems, this is something that might want to be added to the article:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/09/13/abe.hospital/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.67 (talk) 20:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Or much latest Chief Cabinet Secretary comment: [3]. Yosano said on 12th (yesterday) Abe has been having some health problems, not mentioning what it is, and his health has been in a "severe condition" since his trip to Asia countries. --Aphaia 10:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
it's been mentioned he had diarrhea, is it impolitic to mention he has ulcerative colitis and diarhea?--108.18.176.58 (talk) 03:05, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Suicide hoax

Latest comment: 16 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

So the "suicide", about which someone wrote here, was just a troll, am I right? Shinzo Abe is alive? --192.194.238.242 09:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hospitalized due to exhaustion, but otherwise, yes. I blocked the individual behind the misiformation for a week and undid all their edits. El_C 10:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Cabinets table

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The articles for Junichiro Koizumi as well as Yasuo Fukuda have these tables as well. I think they add a good deal to the article, but the font is too big and the tables are a bit obtrustive. Does anyone know enough about wikitables to be able to shrink the font down a bit, as in Yoshiro Mori? -- Exitmoose 02:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Image

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Does nobody have a picture that doesn't have the wrong country's flag behind his head? 78.150.28.208 (talk) 14:12, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Infobox

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I wish folks would leave the Prime Minister section as two. Otherwise, it looks like we're saying he was Prime Minister-designate from 2006 to 2007. GoodDay (talk) 04:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Why the hurry to declare Abe PM a week before his election?

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I do not wish him ill, but a lot of things may happen to stomachs in a week. And for the time being, Abe is only leader of the majority party in the newly elected House of Representatives. He is expected to become prime minister-designate on December 26 when the Diet is scheduled to convene for the designation election (shimei senkyo, (ja)) of a prime minister. A prime minister-designate becomes prime minister after his ceremonial investiture by the Emperor (shinninshiki, (ja)). --Asakura Akira (talk) 04:54, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Updates

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

can somebody update the Abe Cabinet Approval Ratings since 2012. thanks. Torygreen84 (talk) 04:08, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Japan's youngest post–World War II prime minister and the first born after the war.

Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Yoshihiko Noda is younger than Shinzō Abe and he was born after the war too. --Мурад 97 (talk) 16:59, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

The sentence is referring to his first term in 2006: "...elected by a special session of the National Diet on 26 September 2006. He was then Japan's youngest post-World War II prime minister and the first born after the war." - M0rphzone (talk) 02:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Article Section Violates Neutral_point_of_view

Latest comment: 4 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Posted by POV-pusher. No reason to keep this open. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:20, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Section "Politics and philosophy" is in violation of Wikipedia policy [Neutral Point of View[4]] and should be flagged. LoveJapanChika (talk) 03:26, 9 June 2014 (UTC)LoveJapanChika

How is it in violation of the NPoV policy? -- Hoary (talk) 07:39, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
It's not. This guy is a troll. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:20, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How can I view this discussion that took place? I don't want to modify it, just read it. Thanks. --Westwind273 (talk) 14:22, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Weird transcription/translation?

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

A lot of the quotes read as though they're poorly transcribed or translated, but since I'm not sure if the quotes were first given in English or Japanese originally (for, say, the benefit of a US audience at some hypothetical diplomatic event) so the strange phrasing could be the article writer or just representing an ESL speaker accurately.

On the other hand, a specific example that probably needs correction is in the "Politics and Philosophy" section regarding the comfort women controversy: "Abe said "It was a political terrorism by Asahi Shimbun and it was tremendously clear that they had intention to inhume me and Mr. Nakagawa politically, and it is also clear that it was complete fabrication."" Perhaps the author means impugn rather than inhume? They sound the same, but impugn means "to insult or belittle" and inhume means "to bury." Nevertheless I get skittish about altering quotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.117.206 (talk) 13:11, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

fukushima radiation contamination of whole pacific ocean

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

with PM abe visit to USA past few days and the widely shown in USA TV ad by his admin of his wife indicating her interest in radiation effections of nuc bombs, there should be added esp a section about the effects of fukushima (power plant) radioactive contamination of entire pacific ocean, now touted to have killed that entire ecosystem - ref http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fukushima+radiation+contamination+in+pacific+ocean&view=detailv2&&&id=2429DA66F8E4EF2918E4258B8E6C89CBBB53F270&selectedIndex=5&ccid=zNSLfAKK&simid=608029136140435940&thid=JN.cHTidzl74AkQJkoR1GU2Jw&ajaxhist=0 ... ! 47.18.43.166 (talk) 20:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)Adm Yamamoto Akihito jr

IP 183.90.36.105

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Although I don't like Shinzō Abe, but who go and did the vandalized at Shinzō Abe's article diffs record on 24 June 2015??? There was a unknown person did the vandalizing from my shared IP range in Singapore on that day. SA 13 Bro (talk) 22:38, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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External links modified

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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context of snap elections/ 2017 UN General Assembly/ 2017 Typhoon 21

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I disagree with the removal and selective sourcing of the contributions I just made. Palestinian reconciliation announcement in the media coincided with Abe`s decision to dissolve parliament; that was in the days before the UN general assembly in NYC, a destination of both Abe and a Palestinian delegation. The TYPHOON/HURRICANE damage was made worse by the massmedia spindoctors hyping Korea (ironically on the pretext that US Military Occupation is a matter of Public Safety), simultaneously NEGLECTING media coverage of THE LARGEST HURRICANE THIS YEAR! FFS, they are still pulling bodies from rivers, the trains are not running properly, and each and every campaigner holding a sign could have been using the stick to unclog the street drains, averting disaster. Have a lovely day. 9:41AM, 23rd October 126.209.23.138 (talk) 00:42, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

lin

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

多少年没见面。我一直不相信你给我文件。当我看文件和家人的照片是这是真。我一直不相信。我现在觉得很开心。希望尽快与你们会面.JIANXIONG LIN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.152.98 (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Lead section

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The lead section is weirdly... bare, to say the least, for one of the most important leaders on Earth. It should look like the lead section of, say, Modi's article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asmithca (talk • contribs) 05:16, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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Poorly sourced introduction

Latest comment: 4 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

This sentence in the introduction is highly problematic: "He is a member of the revisionist Nippon Kaigi and holds revisionist views on Japanese history,including denying the role of government coercion in the recruitment of comfort women during World War II, a position which has created tension with neighboring South Korea." Source # 6 is an extreme left-wing piece written by the long-term head of the Japanese Communist Party, whose membership percentage in the Diet is in the single digits, certainly not a mainstream view. I propose deleting "including denying the role of government coercion in the recruitment of comfort women during World War II" until it is properly sourced. If there is no objection, I will be bold and delete this phrase. --Westwind273 (talk) 05:11, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

First, "Source #6" was in fact citing a right-wing individual, Shinzō Abe himself, who was quoted in the publication. However it was a poor source, as Shinzō Abe's only indirectly addressed his original statement.
Second, the lead does not require any sourcing at all. The lead is supposed to summarize information that's already in the article. There was indeed proper sourcing the body of the article.
Nonetheless,   Done. I replaced the poor source in the lead, and I added an additional source in the body. Alsee (talk) 21:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Rather than engage in endless bickering, I think I'll just let you live with your guilt of knowing that you are perpetuating a biased introduction. Most of the sources for the introduction are far from mainstream or neutral. --Westwind273 (talk) 03:54, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistent date formats of Japanese articles

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This article uses dd/mm/yyyy whereas other articles on Japanese people (politicians) use mm/dd/yyyy, which one should it be?. 78.108.56.35 (talk) 19:24, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 21 May 2019

Latest comment: 4 years ago29 comments19 people in discussion
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. There is a clear absence of consensus for this move at this time, and closer to a consensus against it. bd2412 T 01:58, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Shinzō Abe → Abe Shinzō – This is in conformance with a request by the Japanese government to refer to him as Abe Shinzō, according to the East Asian naming custom. Source: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190521/p2a/00m/0na/016000c 黄雨伞 (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose – Wikipedia does not obey government requests. We have our own style guide at WP:MOS, and we use English forms of names. All Japanese biographies place the given name before the family name, whereas Chinese ones place the family name first. If we change this for Abe-san, then we would have to change all other articles about Japanese people. This may happen, but should be debated elsewhere than on a single biography page. — JFG talk 21:16, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    I must add that if most sources start referring to Abe-san as "Abe Shinzō", then Wikipedia will follow suit. For now, it's too early to tell if this new directive will take hold. — JFG talk 21:19, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    Shouldn't WP:SPNC apply here? He did not personally make a statement, but we can assume his foreign minister speaks for him. 黄雨伞 (talk) 21:25, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    Maybe. In the meantime I also noticed that our manual of style allows both forms, see WP:JTITLE. I still think it's too soon to change, but I wouldn't be opposed in the future, again if English-language sources pick up this style. Most Chinese and Korean names are now displayed in Asian order, so it's absolutely possible that Japanese names will follow, and Abe-san can play a great role to set the trend. — JFG talk 21:28, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    It seems like Chinese names had always been surname first anyway; Sun Yat-sen's signature was surname first. I am not sure about Korean names. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:24, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose move for lack of sources. Given-name first is the "default" for modern-day Japanese people, and very few sources use family-name first for Abe. O.N.R. (talk) 07:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This is far and away his commonest name in English-language sources. If that changes then we can revisit this. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:06, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now - This should only change if/when most English-language sources follow suit. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:06, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Support move per WP:SPNC. Since it's the way Japanese are named, I find very unlikely he will back down from this position, after making a request to the entire world for it. As such, I don't think it's necessary to wait for crystalize. I think changing all the Japanese articles to this format would not be proper unless discussed at other forums. But, I support it in this particular article. ZackTheJack (talk) 15:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • It was not Abe who made the request. It was a different Japanese government minister. Dekimasuよ! 12:51, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Strong Support - Kim Jong-un, Ho Chi Minh, Lee Kuan Yew, Xi Jinping, Moon Jae-in, Tsai Ing-wen. What makes Abe Shinzō any different? It's time the English Wikipedia correctly fixes all of the Japanese names as well, not only for Abe Shinzō. Ineedtostopforgetting (talk) 14:21, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
    • @Ineedtostopforgetting: Historically Japanese names were treated differently from Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese names, and there are reliable sources discussing this. See Japanese_name#Japanese_names_in_English_and_other_Western_languages. Here is a quote from one of the sources I used for the section:
      • "However, Japanese almost invariably give their names in the Western order when using Western languages. This practice, also universally followed in Western newspapers, magazines and most books, became established in the Meiji period (1868–1912), when Japan was opened up to the West. Confusion often arises because the Chinese and Koreans did not follow the Japanese examples; even in ordinary Western newspapers, Chinese and Korean names are given in the original order, although Chinese and Koreans living and working in the West will usually adopt the Western order."
    • He explains that the exception is in scholarly publications focusing on Japanese/Asian Studies. As an FYI, in English Hungarian names are also reversed in the way Japanese names are.
    • WhisperToMe (talk) 08:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that Ineeestostopforegttng changed the name on several infoboxs (including this article) to Japanese naming order when the article title is in Western order. Is that appropriate or should they be changed back if they don’t match the current article title?--64.229.166.98 (talk) 05:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
@64.229.166.98: It should be changed back until this discussion is over. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Please, no edit warring over the order in the meantime. The status quo ante stands, for now. El_C 02:38, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

  • That request appears to be talking about all Japanese names, not just this one. Wikipedia should wait and see what reliable sources do first. —Xezbeth (talk) 07:39, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • I suggest this should be discussed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles.--Ipigott (talk) 07:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - we should only change this if reliable sources start doing so, per WP:COMMONNAME. The Japanese government's edict may affect what RS do going forward, but is no in itself a reason to move.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:52, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now as his common name in English language sources is still Shinzō Abe. In time this may change, and if/when that does happen, another RM could be started. But right now it's not the common name used. Which is the same reason we use Kiev not Kyiv, as it's the common English language translation in reliable sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:31, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for being too soon - wait until reliable sources flip the order. We have a precedent in Yoko Taro (surname first) because sources did flip the order for his name in particular, while others are cited in sources with their given names first (and many sources cite Yoko Taro's name with his surname first but all of his colleagues with their given names first, even in the same body of running text, e.g. [5] and [6]) Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 14:23, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - This is aligned with the East Asian naming convention in Japan, and also in East Asian nations such as China and Korea, which follow the surname-first convention. Also, the official Japanese gov't has issued a request, and US gov't has followed it in it's official documents.Rwat128 (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia isn't a subsidiary of the US Government, so until lots of reliable sources use this name, we shouldn't. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:15, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose: While opposing this particular proposal for the reasons outlined above, I can't help noticing that we're already somewhat inconsistent in the way we treat Japanese names. Look at Category:Japanese politicians for starters, where we have the majority shown in given name-surname order, but there are many exceptions: Bak Jungyang, Hajime Seki, Iwakura Tomomi, Kabayama Aisuke, Kido Takayoshi, Matsudaira Norikata, Murata Seifu, and on and on. That's just one category. Undoubtedly, some of these are explained by their relative obscurity and the fact that they are known in the anglosphere only in the Japanese order. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 09:18, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
    It's not inconsistent. Biographies of people born pre-Meiji Era will almost always be in Eastern name order, and anyone born after will be in Western name order unless they opt to use Eastern per reliable sources. —Xezbeth (talk) 10:45, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
    So, perhaps the new Reiwa era will see the reversal of the Meiji era policy, and Abe-san is the first case. — JFG talk 09:48, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Support:If the Japanese government decide they prefer to refer to their leader in English the same order as they do in their native language, then such practice must be respected. Even though Meiji have previous adopted a different practice, the Japanese government have already changed its policy. The Japanese government's edict may not be enough in most cases, but this is the case for biography, where the subject's wish must be respected, in this case, it is Abe Shinzo's government that made this decision and hence must be respected.Viztor (talk) 21:30, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
    • For people who feel the need of reliable sources, I here cite WashingtonPost and CNN, also Britannica have already updated their piece.
  • Oppose. Wikipedia follows usage in reliable sources, not the directives of any given government–not to mention the problems this would cause regarding titling the articles of people with a more ambiguous or tenuous connection to the country of Japan. The sources given in the preceding comment are on the issue itself, not evidence of common usage. And the CNN article is citing this very discussion, so let's try to stay away from tautological arguments. Dekimasuよ! 12:51, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name ordering

Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The article is named Shinzo Abe, but his birth name in the infobox is shown as Abe Shinzo. What gives? Lexein (talk) 15:18, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Under discussion above. Feel free to participate. — JFG talk 18:07, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Anti-Abe Bias

Latest comment: 4 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

This article reeks of anti-Abe bias throughout. The article seems to be obsessed with Abe's views of history, rather than what he has actually done as prime minister. For example, the entire "Political positions and philosophy" section talks only about historical issues. This is really weird for a Wikipedia article. For example, if one were to describe the political positions and philosophy of Ronald Reagan, one would talk about small government and strengthening national defense, not what Reagan thought about what happened during WWII. Also, this article is obsessed with Abe's purported "nationalism" and the nature of his association with Nippon Kaigi. Note that the Encyclopedia Britannica does not even contain the word "nationalist" in its entire article about Abe. It refers to Abe as a conservative, which he is. The bias of this article is also deeply ironic. One reason for Abe's longevity is that with the demise of the Japan Socialist Party and the Communist Party on life support, there are relatively few actual policy differences between Abe and his opposition. Perhaps the most prominent recent policy difference is that Abe's party passed a law making it easier for Japanese companies to bring foreign workers into Japan. This was vocally opposed by Abe's (non-nationalist?) opposition. So tell me how that makes Abe a nationalist? All in all, Wikipedia really cheapens itself by allowing hack job articles like this. --Westwind273 (talk) 14:14, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

@Westwind273:Tag it and edit it, this is Wikipedia. Viztor (talk) 20:16, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Feel free to repeat that comment in every section on this talk page. --Westwind273 (talk) 19:17, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Portrait Update

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hi all, Shinzo Abe's portrait is from 2012, about 7 years ago. Albeit this is his official portrait, should it be updated to a portrait from 2019? Thanks! Chickensarebleepssorryuncle (talk) 02:17, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Grammatical tense

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Was the tax implemented in 2017, per the sentence, " . . . when the anticipated tax increase from 8 to 10 percent TAKES PLACE in April 2017."? If so, then it should be changed to "...TOOK PLACE (correct date?)..." If not, then, it should be changed to "...SUPPOSED TO TAKE PLACE in April 2017 (then give event that prevented it)..."

Skaizun (talk) 03:21, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Capitalization situation

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm going to assume that if decapitalization is accepted in this article's intro? It'll will likewise be added to the intros of all the other Japanese prime ministers article intros. GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Japanese Naming Change

Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

As of 01/01/2020, the Japanese government now issued a new decree so that official names will be written with last name first in the Latin alphabet. In line with this, should the article be moved to Abe Shinzo? https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/01/02/why-japanese-names-have-flipped?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/banyanwhyjapanesenameshaveflippedasia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.4.124 (talk) 02:58, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Read back ^ - already discussed.50.111.26.55 (talk) 02:19, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 13 January 2020

Latest comment: 4 years ago8 comments6 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: MOved  — Amakuru (talk) 22:20, 21 January 2020 (UTC)


Shinzō Abe → Shinzo Abe – It interested me to see that the macron diacritic on Junichiro Koizumi's name was removed from the title of his Wikipedia article a few years ago during a page move discussion.[7] The main argument used was WP: COMMONNAME. If the arguments of that previous discussion hold true, shouldn't this article also be moved on the same grounds? Most recent books and media in English don't use the macron, it seems. I've never once seen an article in the Japan Times or South China Morning Post that spells Shinzo Abe's name with the macron attached.Funtoedit1212 (talk) 08:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Support - clear common name. Interstellarity (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
Support - clear WP: COMMONNAME --AGTepper (talk) 17:13, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment despite many people support to rename to Shinzo Abe without macron, this change affects all Japanese name where it used macrons and diacritics. I think is more reasonable to discuss

it at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles as whole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.67.42.31 (talk) 14:18, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
  • @Amakuru: Sorry to ping you about this so late, but I was unaware that the RM was taking (had taken) place until just now. Are you sure about the above result? Three support !votes, one from someone who was blocked as a sock the week after you closed the RM and the other two from relatively new users who hardly ever edit Japan-related articles, vs. one well-reasoned oppose !vote (not worded as much, but clearly saying as much) from someone who may have also been a sock stating that a discussion should take place on the MOS talk page since it would affect other articles, is an extremely weak "consensus" for changing the title of such a prominent Japanese politician. The closest thing I could find to a notification of WikiProject Japan of the above RM was this -- the OP seems to have done a drive-by RM and then left the project for a week.[8]
I really think such drastic moves should not be made without much broader participation from the community, especially from those editors who primarily work in this area (of whom there were none in the above discussion). Moreover, given your involvement in the linked Koizumi RM from 2016, a case could be made that your closure was a super-!vote in favour of an opinion you had already voiced elsewhere -- your opinion is valid (although The diacritics don't help with pronunciation[9] is definitely wrong), but you should probably give others the chance to respond to your !vote rather than simply closing the discussion in favour of the view of a tiny minority that happen to agree with a previous somewhat-broader consensus.
Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:13, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
@Hijiri88: when I come to close a discussion the key question is whether consensus is clear or not, in that discussion. If consensus is not clear, then I would very often cast a !vote based on my reading of the situation, and application of our policies. But if consensus is clear, then I close the RM. By which I mean WP:CONSENSUS in the Wikipedia sense of the word, where arguments are viewed through the lens of policy and guideline. The !votes in the discussion above essentially invoked two of the key policies which we use when determining naming - WP:COMMONNAME (which refers to how the subject is named in English-language reliable sources) and WP:CONSISTENCY, which refers to the Junichiro_Koizumi example. So after a week of listing, there were three !votes in support of the proposal, with one "comment" which proposed doing this as a change to the Japan MOS instead. But that argument was already rejected at the Junichiro_Koizumi RM, where the closer noted that these decisions are made on an individual article basis. In short, my personal views didn't enter into the close, because there was already clear support based on Wikipedia policy. Unless you have evidence that any of the proposer's points are incorrect, then I don't see any reason to review this two month old discussion. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:46, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
That WP:COMMONNAME applies at all to Japanese politicians who only a small minority of our readers have heard of is a controversial opinion, as is clear from the fact that every single one of the examples listed (Bill Clinton, Bono, Diocletian and J. K. Rowling) are either household names or at the very least widely known among people who have studied any of a variety of different fields (I don't know who added Diocletian, when, but it seems questionable -- this time last year it listed only Bono and Clinton), and that it applies to the removal of diacritics from forms of the name that are otherwise identical is equally controversial. Moreover, WP:CONSISTENCY is actually very much against the above RM result: the fact that Tarō Asō and Yoshirō Mori exist appears to indicate that the rule is now that the rule is now that "we don't use macrons or apostrophes in the titles of articles Japanese PMs who have served for a more than one year since Wikipedia was created" -- let alone the two-dozen or so other entries in List of prime ministers of Japan with which this article is now out of sync. I would consider that evidence that the nom's points are largely incorrect -- the fact that no effort was made to invite participation from WikiProject Japan members or even participants in the Koizumi RM also very much counts against the validity of the RM, which saw minimal support and came somewhere between 33% and 67% from sockpuppets. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:22, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 2 March 2020

Latest comment: 4 years ago24 comments15 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. And I'm also placing this article on a six-month moratorium on further move requests. El_C 18:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Shinzo Abe → Abe Shinzo — I would like to revisit the requested move from 21 May 2019. It appears that the consensus was to wait until (if and) when reliable sources start referring to him as Abe Shinzo. I enter the following into the record as evidence reliable sources have started using Abe Shinzo:

  • Google News: 20 pages of results since 2 January 2020 for "shinzo abe" [10]; 23 pages for "abe shinzo" [11]
  • Google: 125 displayed results since 2 January 2020 for "shinzo abe" -wikipedia [12]; 170 for "abe shinzo" -wikipedia [13]
  • Google Scholar: 189 results since 2020 for "shinzo abe" [14]; 42 results for "abe shinzo" [15] (The change went into effect 1 January 2020 [16]. It is very likely that a significant portion of articles published in 2020 were written before 1 January 2020.)

It seems to me that there is a slight majority in reliable sources using Abe Shinzo. Combined with this being the subject's preferred name[17], I believe Abe Shinzo is the preferable title. userdude 08:31, 2 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Sawol (talk) 08:39, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

  • Support I think the Japanese-style, last name-first name format will become increasingly popular, due in part to the trends noted in the article from The Economist cited by userdude. In the case of Abe, both ways of writing his name are equally common right now, but I think that the trend will be towards "Abe Shinzo" due to the Japanese government making this its official stance. I actually wouldn't mind someone opening a discussion on having the manual of style revised, so that all Japanese names can use this format. But for now, I can support this move. Funtoedit1212 (talk) 08:53, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose per MOS:JAPAN. The vast majority of English-language reliable sources follow conventions similar to en.wiki's style guide on this matter, at least when it comes to people of "mainstream" interest in English-speaking countries, as Japan's PM is inherently. If you want to make an exception for this one page, you need a much stronger argument than the unreliable auto-generated GNews, GBlank (!?), and GScholar hit counts, which for all the information given above could include: automatically romanized Japanese-language sources; citations of Japanese works whose titles include his full name; and sources in languages like Hungarian that are written in the roman alphabet but would have no reason to transcribe Abe's name into English order, and are completely irrelevant for our purposes. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:54, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Unless there is some actual comment from Abe behind the paywall of The Economist, there is nothing here to indicate that it is actually the subject's preferred name. The rules of a government are not automatic evidence of personal preference of its individual citizens, even if it's the prime minister. If actually proposed or performed, this would reduce consistency for little benefit. Dekimasuよ! 06:35, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
@Dekimasu: I've heard from multiple sources that the administration is pushing for Japanese names in general to be written in English in Japanese order, as Chinese and Korean names already are -- see this somewhat hypocritical blog, for instance. Certainly, the JHS English textbooks have started writing names that way. However, claiming based on this that the PM and only the PM has this as his personal preference is pretty laughable. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:15, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
I agree with Hijiri 88 that in general, it would be more proper to address the naming order issue for all Japanese names. However, if the subject has specifically indicated that they wish to be referred to by the new naming convention, the article ought to be changed per WP:SPNC. This then leads to the question of if Abe specifically indicated if he wishes to be referred to as Abe Shinzo. The following is a list of sources and information pertaining to whether or not Abe has specifically indicated he wishes to be referred to as Abe Shinzo:
  • [18] The Economist article says One backer of the change is the prime minister. and With China on the rise and America proving a wobbly ally, [Mr. Abe] believes it is time for Japan to stand tall again and celebrate tradition.… Mr Abe wants to change the constitution to emphasise family over the individual.. (January 2020)
  • [19] CNN quoted Foreign Minister (and member of Abe's Cabinet)Taro Kono as using Abe's name as an example of the naming convention: As many news organizations write Chinese President Xi Jinping and South Korean President Moon Jae-in, it is desirable for Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s name to be written in a similar manner. (May 2019)
  • [20] Washington Post also quotes Kono. The article itself also says Japan’s foreign minister has said he will issue a request to foreign media: Call our prime minister Abe Shinzo, not Shinzo Abe.(May 2019)
  • [21] Japan Times also cites Kono. (September 2019)
  • [22] NYT also quotes Kono but notes It is not clear what Mr. Abe thinks of Mr. Kono’s proposal. He has not commented, although his chief cabinet secretary, Yoshihide Suga, told reporters that given the long-established practice of putting the surname last in Western contexts, “we need to consider many elements” before making a government recommendation.. (May 2019)
  • [23] Quartz published an article titled Japan’s prime minister wants you to call him by his name, but does not provide evidence that Abe himself supports the change. (May 2019)
  • [24] Reuters article says The change is in line with the agenda of the conservative prime minister, Shinzo Abe, who wants to revive aspects of Japan’s traditional culture, and it has been championed by those seeking to save traditions. (September 2019)
userdude 18:21, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
@UserDude: Several of those quotes (the ones that aren't ambiguous and subject to interpretation) indicate that Abe wants western media to refer to Japanese in general by Japanese naming order, but not that any media (outside of scholarly literature by japanologists) actually follow this policy or that this is a personal preference regarding his own name in particular that would justify Wikipedia making an exception. A bunch of my Japanese friends would probably prefer to be called by their Japanese naming order in English, and certainly virtually all of my former students who learned English from the new textbooks would feel this way since they see no reason why it would be otherwise, but all of that just indicates that we should maybe reconsider our naming convention for modern Japanese bios in general. But if COMMONNAME applies to any contemporary Japanese forcing an exception to such a policy, it applies to Abe -- this page was moved earlier this year (inappropriately, if you ask me) because COMMONNAME trumps style guidelines in the opinions of a segment of the Wikipedian community, and if we are going to force a style guideline on the title of this page we can't also ignore the fact that English-language news media, with the exception of the ones that get their info from Wikipedia (see here), universally refer to our subject as "Shinzo Abe". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:35, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
@Hijiri88: Having read Talk:Shinzo Abe#Requested move 13 January 2020 I am inclined to agree with you that the move was made in error. As well, I agree that a broader discussion regarding MOS:JAPAN would be more appropriate. Barring that, if the consensus is indeed that COMMONNAME trumps MOS, the question is then if "Shinzo Abe" is the COMMONNAME. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the "common name" must be used by a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources. The (admittedly very crude) GNews and GScholar examples provided above suggest this is not the case. userdude 19:06, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
You understand, it's not me who believes COMMONNAME applies here -- it's the people who !voted in the previous RM (including the one who closed it in a manner that, in my view, was inappropriate). My belief is that if we are going to count GNews and/or GBooks hits for every single topic that has ever been covered in at least one reliable or quasi-reliable English (or or other European language!) source, then there is no reason for us to have our own style guide for consistency's sake. But whether we go with a consistent internal style or with a random grab-bag of Google hits, the result is, at present, the same as far as #Requested move 2 May 2020 goes. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:23, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above and Google Ngrams comparison showing high prevalence of "Shinzo Abe". -- Netoholic @ 10:52, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment. On the first page of Google News results for Abe Shinzo: CNN: Japan asked the international media to change how we write their names. No one listened. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:18, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
    • "No one listened" helps indicate that Western order remains common for Abe. For that reason, I oppose. O.N.R. (talk) 15:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose considering the fact that we have a reliable source directly saying that that English language media (including English language media based in Japan) isn’t using the proposed name demonstrates that the current name is by far the most commonly used at least for the time being. Granted it may change over time like it did with Chinese names but that has yet to happen it would likely be several years at least before it does.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 21:35, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. If we have Itō Hirobumi (as we do), this person should be Abe Shinzō. If you look at Japanese prime ministers, Tanaka Giichi, prime minister from 1927 to 1929, is family name first. Meanwhile Osachi Hamaguchi, prime minister from 1929 to 1931, is family name last. The prime ministers from Itō to Abe should all have names in the same format. So why don't they? Newspaper style is family name last while history books and reference works prefer family name first. As a name fades into history, it may flip around if you try to do a common name analysis. But I'd be surprise if anyone other than Wikipedia had a policy of dividing Japanese names into nonsensical categories such as "historical names" and "modern names." There was no "great name reform of 1930." Colin Gerhard (talk) 12:23, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
  • The Wikipedia style is more consistent than you make it out to be here; it uses family names first for births that preceded the Meiji Restoration. Dekimasuよ! 18:16, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Clear common name in English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:34, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Support There is a clear trend towards Japanese-style format becoming more popular. The fact that it is now the Japanese government's official stance shows this.Ljgua124 (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Any evidence of that since he have a reliable source in this very discussion saying that the trend hasn’t happened with English language media and that will trump personal opinion.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 05:03, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose - as noted above, English sources have not changed their usage significantly, and the WP:COMMONNAME remains "Shinzo Abe". See articles in the past week as examples: [25][26] We also have a CNN article specifically addressing this point, and noting that nothing has changed despite Mr Abe's request, and that it is unlikely to change for some time to come: [27]  — Amakuru (talk) 10:22, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. The subject prefers the name. Wikipedia seems to have deferred to how people self-appellate in the past. Eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.d._lang. The warrants for why one ought to defer seem to be at the heart of MOS:LCITEMS and there does not seem to me any reason why they do not apply here. The argument as keeping the reversed name, merely because it is more well-known, seems appalling weak in light of the existence of redirects. Hitting up n-grams says that cesium is more popular than caesium; yet we have Caesium. Popularity ought not be the only thing to manoeuvre this judgement. Ifly6 (talk) 20:30, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
k.d Lang doesn’t apply here since the main argument to use that name wasn’t simply that she preferred the name but that most reliable sources used that particular stylization. That is not the case here and we even have a reliable source confining that. Caesium also doesn’t apply either since is a case of wikipedia:TITLEVAR which pretty much states that Wikipedia doesn’t prefer one variety of over another (Ie America vs British English) which is why the article is tilted Caesium. Please also see MOS:ENGVAR. The only way that would be relevant would be if there was an primarily English speaking nation that regularly uses Abe Shinzo and considering the CNN source mentioned earlier stated that this hasn’t even caught on with English language media situated in Japan we can safely rule they out.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 21:21, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
As noted in detail above, there is little evidence supporting the claim that "the subject prefers the name". Dekimasuよ! 18:16, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose primarily per Amakuru. In any case Japanese name ordering seems mainly like a guideline issue that should be hashed out instead of creating guaranteed sore-thumb exceptions. Nohomersryan (talk) 08:28, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shinzo Abe's resignation

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I've seen many articles, posts, tweets, .etc about how Shinzo has retired today. Someone update the page pls? k thankyaw

edit: it is fixed now — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mycranthebigman (talk • contribs) 13:18, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2020

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Resign as Japanese Prime Minister: September 28, 2020 49.146.63.165 (talk) 04:32, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

  Already done Seagull123 Φ 09:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2020

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Resign as Japanese Prime Minister: September 28, 2020 49.146.63.165 (talk) 04:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

  Already done Seagull123 Φ 09:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2020

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments4 people in discussion

remove the image of trump from a page about Shinzo Abe Aham1234 (talk) 04:34, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

  Not done: Why do you want this removed? @Aham1234. Seagull123 Φ 09:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
Why should the image be removed? I don't necessarily have an opinion one way or the other, but a request to remove content should be supported with data that helps us decide whether the image should be removed or not. @Aham1234. Jurisdicta (talk) 18:54, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
There are also images of him with Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping so any removal of the Trump image would need to justify only removing the Trump image.--70.24.248.109 (talk) 03:04, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Death is not confirmed

Latest comment: 1 year ago11 comments8 people in discussion

I'm now writing this note, watching NHK General News of Noun. By now he is reportedly shot, but it's reported by eyewitnesses, not based on any official annoucements or releases: he made then a speech in an electral campaign (we'll have an election next Sunday), backing a candidate, surrounded by locals. He is reportedly showing no vital signs now, falling in cardiopulmonary arrest, NHK says, but without citing sources. It's not the time Wikipedians work on this topics. Not yet. --Aphaia (talk) 03:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Also today is 2022-07-08 as signed on the above, not 2022-07-06. The recent versions were so errornoues. Aphaia (talk) 03:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Agreed! Until we have proof from the doctors, we should not confirm anything. Hu753 (talk) 03:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
NHK is now reporting "according to Fire department, Abe suffers cardiopulmanary arrest" (Emergency services are provided by local fire department in Japan). That means doctors haven't confirmed anything. Other countries' media may report "death" in this situation, but it's no Japanese way. --Aphaia (talk) 03:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
confirming the euphemism https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62089486 VariousDeliciousCheeses (talk) 03:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
It's not euphemism but legal description: in Japanese jurisdiction, only medical doctors' confirmation of death is legally vaild (it may affects successive legal issues, mainly inheritance succession). Doctors may determine the date and time prior to his examination, but officiality matters here. Aphaia (talk) 04:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
I don't care if it's confirmed, but the inclusion of the line about his heart having CURRENTLY stopped is absolutely not encyclopedic. Fbifriday (talk) 03:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
It may be wise to remove the "died" section from his info tab. 2601:240:C400:9150:1D29:A035:6870:34CB (talk) 03:37, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, let's remain calm & wait for further official word, of the former prime minister's condition. GoodDay (talk) 04:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

That means a licensed medical professional making the declaration. Not the press. The Impartial Truth (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Can someone just lock the page to prevent edits until there is further news of his condition? What is it with people anyway, trying to be the first to make an edit change on a page after a news story hits?? Just relax and sit on your hands for a while and try to listen instead of foolishly asserting edits all the time! Maximilian77 (talk) 06:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

3 times?

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Can someone edit it to say 2 times? The Japanese source provided states "現地で取材していたNHKの記者によりますと当時、銃声のような音が2回聞こえて、安倍元総理大臣は血を流して倒れていたということです", which means 2 times (it contains the Arabic numeral 2). The other source does not load for me, but given that the video has two explosive sounds, and other reporting says two times, this should be fixed. --JasonMacker (talk) 05:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and edited myself. --JasonMacker (talk) 05:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Shinzo Abe died on 8th July 2022 because of a Assassination Attempt during Speech 49.176.244.196 (talk) 05:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

His death is not confirmed. When official word, with an official source, is released, that can be put in. $chnauzer 05:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022 (2)

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Remove Death date. The article states that Shinzo Abe has died, which is not accurate according to news sources. Latest headlines say he is in critical condition. While it is very possible that Mr. Abe will die as a result, the statement that he died on July 8, 2022 is jumping the gun. My suggested edit is that Mr. Abe's death date should be removed as his status is not confirmed. 66.219.236.171 (talk) 06:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  Already done EvergreenFir (talk) 06:37, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022 (3)

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Japanese media reports Shinzo Abe has died at the age of 67. 2601:47:4200:FA0:F1FE:D525:F461:D915 (talk) 08:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  Not done Please provide reliable sources that confirm this. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Due to unfortunate circumstances

Latest comment: 1 year ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Shinzo Abe has had an untimely death on 8 July 2022 Shackwade (talk) 08:54, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022 (5)

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Under “Assassination” need to change “On 8 July 2022, Abe was shot twice while delivering a campaign…” to delete “twice”. Later in this section it states that the first of the two shots missed Abe and cites articles to that effect. If the first shot missed Abe then he was not “shot twice” so the language in the first sentence of this section is incorrect. 2601:282:200:8A00:40FE:5C59:6AB:4D16 (talk) 13:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)


  Not done:I've reviewed all the sources, and they tell us that he was shot in the neck and heart. EditingMatthew (talk) 13:44, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Edit request: Abe has died

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments1 person in discussion

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20220708/k10013707681000.html Confirmed by NHK Toffeenix (talk) 08:51, 8 July 2022 (UTC) Need to update page to was, etc. Or Unlock. RIP.

Final parts of that message were added by user User:36.11.229.116, who is not me. Toffeenix (talk) 08:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Died

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Shinzo Abe Was Fired and Died in Japan at 8th July 2022. Aswadul Islam (talk) 09:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Oops: I think you meant "was shot". "Fired" means "dismissed from office". You might like to delete this section. Errantios (talk) 20:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022 (4)

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

He has now died 109.249.184.237 (talk) 08:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  Already done - As per edits already in the article. MadGuy7023 (talk) 09:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Assasination during his speech

Latest comment: 1 year ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Former Prime Minister of japan Shinzo Abe was reportedly shot at the back around 11:30 am Japan Standard Time while giving a speech supporting a political party. 103.149.101.72 (talk) 12:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Shinzo Abe has died from his injuries.

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Japan times posted about his passing on twitter.

https://twitter.com/japantimes/status/1545330230339899393?s=20&t=_qyhJMJ7E6tzOfuMEc_Cqw KingWolf277 (talk) 09:00, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/07/08/national/shinzo-abe-dead-nara-shooting/
Here's the link to the Japantimes actual website for more clarity. god bless his soul. KingWolf277 (talk) 09:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Japan Times articles are on paywall: I recommend you to find other sources alongside, if possible, like NHK International which is currently without paywall.

Full protection request

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments4 people in discussion

In the wake of the assassination of Japan’s former Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, I feel it especially prudent that his article should be fully protected to prevent vandalism. `2601:405:4000:1F50:B89F:AFF2:BD41:A976 (talk) 16:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Full protection means only admins can edit it. That is too extreme. And so far there's not been much vandalism. EvergreenFir (talk) 16:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Yes, please do it. 2406:3003:2005:33F3:DCB1:13C3:5FE0:7F59 (talk) 16:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I don’t believe that’s necessary, from what I’ve seen most of these are good in faith (not inherently malicious) and simply fail to include proper citations (which for obvious reasons should be removed as they can’t be verified). Danny02567 (talk) 20:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022 (6)

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Change

"former US President Donald Trump opined that "few people know what a great man and leader Shinzo Abe was, but history will teach them and be kind."

to

former US President Donald Trump opined "He was a unifier like no other, but above all, he was a man who loved and cherished his magnificent country, Japan."

The Source is the same. (Literally the next sentence) 24.106.92.10 (talk) 16:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  Not done: Please see the consensus to remove most reactions from this section in the thread, Talk:Assassination of Shinzo Abe#World reactions to Abe's assassination Venkat TL (talk) 21:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022 (7)

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

i want to edit the date shinzo Abe was assassinated and include more details including his death PatrykWidla001 (talk) 21:24, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Venkat TL (talk) 21:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2022

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion
2603:3015:2BA4:8000:683B:9261:91F3:3A81 (talk) 06:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Abe was gunned down by a local Japanese man who carried a handmade weapon. He was later taken to the hospital where he was announced dead. Abe was only 67 when he died. Abe's death reminds us that even the powerful and rich will taste death.

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:38, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
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