Talk:Rishi Sunak/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

I'm not sure about this content. I think it probably fits better into the UK coronavirus article. The first sentence is also not phrased neutrally. Bellowhead678 (talk) 20:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Agree. Removed it for the 2nd time. Debates around government policies are normal in a democracy, but this does not mean we need to stick all that into politicians' biographies. — kashmīrī ^TALK 20:49, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

It needs to be pointed out that 3 million people have been excluded from his scheme that "helps everyone". https://www.excludeduk.org/excluded-uk-an-inclusive-alliance-for-the-excluded — Preceding unsigned comment added by AVMan61 (talk • contribs) 06:39, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2020

Hi I want to add the names of Rishi Sunaks daughters under his children section citing this source https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10964687/who-rishi-sunaks-wife-akshata-murthy/ HiramWikiMan (talk) 16:22, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

​We usually don't mention the names of children unless they're independently notable, and also The Sun can no longer be used as a source on Wikipedia. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Rishi Sunak phone call with Janet Yellen.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Second lord

As the Chancellor is now always Second Lord of the Treasury can we stop treating it as a separate office for the purpose of these succession boxes? It just complicates matters. PatGallacher (talk) 18:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Section on the Ready For Rishi campaign?

Since Rishi Sunak has announced his campaign bid, I think an expanded section in the article body mentioning this is needed. 89.243.125.209 (talk) 16:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

It seems the domain "readyforrishi.com", which re-directs to "ready4rishi.com", was registered in December 2021: [1]. So maybe planning ahead of any government crisis? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

It definitely seems that way. --89.243.125.209 (talk) 19:39, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

"has taken his oath at the House of Commons on the Bhagavad Gita since 2017.[84][85]"

This is quite a bizarre thing to bring up to talk, but it begs the question, what did he do in 2015? Is there any text or video documentation of the swearing-in in 2015? Indian sources are usually very happy to bring up the successes of the diaspora, but the only story they have in May 2015 is on an Australian MP. This Indian source from 2019 criticises British Hindus for taking an affirmation instead of an oath, so one would think they'd have done the same in 2015 had Sunak just affirmed? Unknown Temptation (talk) 22:18, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

he's not a member of Parliament if he hasn't taken the oath. 92.5.77.165 (talk) 14:43, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

That's not really answering the question at all. If in 2017 and 2019 he swore on the holy book of his faith, as sourced in this article, what did he do in 2015 and why have no sources, including India- and Hinduism-related ones covered it? FYI you don't need to take an oath to be an MP. Atheists, or denominations forbidden from taking oaths like Jehovah's Witnesses and Quakers, affirm which has the same legal consequence but does not take the name of God. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:25, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I think you raise a fair point here. I've reviewed all the RS noted (and a few more) and find the subject of 2015 to be omitted. While accurate, "since 2017" clearly implies that he did not do so previously, which is not supported. Nor should we adopt the language that says he did. I see two options: a) changing to "since at least 2017" or b) removing "since 2017." I believe the latter is less suggestive and the best of all three constructions, and have updated accordingly. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:22, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

40.5% increased majority?

Page states Sunak in 2016 reelection won an increased majority of 40.5%. By definition, a majority is greater than 50%. The correct term is plurality 2600:1015:B061:F712:9CE5:85FA:8E68:646B (talk) 07:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

The tables at 2017 general election all use the word "majority". Martinevans123 (talk) 07:33, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

This is a different (British) meaning of the term majority. In the use here, it indicates the difference between the first and second place candidates. Sunak received 63.9% to his opponent's 23.4%, a difference/majority of 40.5%. Of course, this also means that Sunak actually did receive a majority of the total vote share (not merely a plurality). GreatCaesarsGhost 19:44, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2022

You need to include in the section on his work during Covid, (Redacted) Source: ExcludedUK website. Your current entry has nothing but positive stuff. It's a fan letter, not an accurate reflection of the subject. And locking it against amendment is a disgrace. You're supposed to be at least pretending to be unbiased. 46.69.61.61 (talk) 14:05, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done Can you be clearer about the source you're providing to support these claims - exact URLs, please. Claims as extraordinary as this will also require more reliable sourcing than an advocacy website. — Czello 14:12, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2022 (2)

When you write about ExcludedUK, don't forget to mention that an All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) (the largest in history) was set up to investigate why Sunak had chosen to exclude nearly 4 million people from any help, and to lobby for him to change his policy. 46.69.61.61 (talk) 15:34, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:38, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

"The upcoming Conservative party leadership election"

Could this be updated as the election has started now, should be changed to "the ongoing Conservative party leadership election". It's also worth mentioning in the leadership bid section of the article that Sunak is currently leading the polls, followed closely by Penny Mordaunt. 89.243.125.209 (talk) 08:28, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

done, I just removed the "upcoming" as it wasn't ongoing when he made the announcement. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 09:14, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. But more information on Sunak's leadership bid is needed for this article. --89.243.125.209 (talk) 16:50, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

More information on his leadership campaign is needed in this article

Is the opinion of Jacob Rees-Mogg really more worthy of being in the leadership bid section than anything about Sunak's actual leadership campaign thus far? Why is there little to no information about it here? 89.243.125.209 (talk) 22:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2022

change the last sentence from: "He in turn lost the Conservative leadership race to Truss, garnering 42.6% of the vote" to: "He in turn lost the Conservative leadership race to Truss, garnering 42.6% of the vote while Truss gained 57.4%" Raguzz (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done It's a bit superfluous. Truss's vote share is already implied by knowing Sunak's, as it's a percentage. — Czello 21:28, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2022

Add to “October 2022 conservative leadership Bid” section on 23rd October 2022 at 10:38 a.m Sunak declared his bid for conservative party leader and Prime Minister of the United Kingdom He was the second candidate to officially declare their leadership bid after current leader of the House Of Commons, Penny Mordant on 21st October 2 days before Sunak. Sunak was also the first candidate to cross the threshold of 100 Members of the party backing him, his opponent (Penny Mordant) lagging behind him in polls. Zac Hollinshead (talk) 13:37, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done please provide a source for all content to be added. Polyamorph (talk) 14:42, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

source 1 GB News- https://www.gbnews.uk/news/rishi-sunak-confirms-bid-to-replace-liz-truss-as-prime-minister/379701

source 2

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/10/21/penny-mordaunt-tory-leadership-race-prime-minister/ Zac Hollinshead (talk) 17:51, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

information is up to date as of 23/10/2022 or 10/23/2022 Zac Hollinshead (talk) 17:54, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (2)

He won the Conservative leadership election and is incoming Prime Minister. TheJamesifer (talk) 13:07, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Already merged MBihun (talk) 13:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Can someone explain why my changes keep being undone? He is Leader of the Conservative Party and incoming PM, which is how Truss was described at this stage. He is NOT PM officially yet. BeaujolaisFortune (talk) 13:10, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Prime Minister

Mr. Sunak is not the prime minister as of 24 October 2022 @[[User:13:10 UTC. However, the wikipage specifically says he is at the beginning of the article. Seriously? Please fix as anything biased shouldn't be up there.|13:10 UTC. However, the wikipage specifically says he is at the beginning of the article. Seriously? Please fix as anything biased shouldn't be up there. 50.232.32.18 (talk) 13:12, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I have changed this now BeaujolaisFortune (talk) 13:14, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (4)

Rishi sunak is now british prime minister 94.189.14.134 (talk) 13:15, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

No he is not. He is Leader of the Conservative Party and until King Charles says so, Truss is still PM BeaujolaisFortune (talk) 13:17, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (5)

UK Prime Minister 37.60.66.42 (talk) 13:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

See discussion above BeaujolaisFortune (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Not yet. Until the King says so, Truss is still PM. TotallyCreativeName (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for the reasons stated above MBihun (talk) 13:29, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

New prime minister

New prime minister — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7f:f647:7700:3d66:b5d9:a4f4:14fe (talk • contribs) 13:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (7)

he is pm now 2A02:C7C:5044:C000:D99F:E966:2855:EB3D (talk) 14:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done He is not. — Czello 14:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (3)

change photo under “Rishi Sunak”’s page to a highly accurate photo of the individual himself. 51.14.173.122 (talk) 13:14, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

•  Fixed The image got vandalised multiple times before the article was semi-protected, but this has now been fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:53, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

30/500 protection escalation

The current Semi-Protection on the page is largely ineffective at stopping vandalism, given one revision of the page here.

Could the page's protection be escalated to 30/500? I'm not sure how the protection stuff works but it could help with stopping vandalism for now. TotallyCreativeName (talk) 13:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Although I wouldn’t qualify, perhaps someone who does can try to make the change I have had undone 3 times now which is to describe him as “due to be appointed Prime Minister of the United Kingdom” to (a) be consistent with how we described Truss at this point and (b) clarify to readers that this has been updated and will be further updated. BeaujolaisFortune (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I also agree, there's still too much speculative editing from reasonably new accounts (that are autoconfirmed but don't have 500 edits). ECP would fix this- it's been requested at WP:RPP, and I also added my support for ECP there. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:54, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (6)

Kongu RenuGopal (talk) 13:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done As there is no actual request for a change here. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:55, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Add the Leaders of the Conservative Party (UK) category

Rishi is now the Conservative Party leader 92.30.72.123 (talk) 15:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Lead image question

Why isn't the most recent official portrait (2020) being used? I think this is a pretty good lead image portrait. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 02:06, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree , and have changed image back to one that has been stable for a while.

The augment for change was official parliamentary image to be consistent with other MP's article entries. However, I don't think consistency isn't a very good augment as many MPs using 2017/19 portraits is only because there the best quality (or even only) images available under free licences. Additionally, it doesn't take in to account that most cabinet (or former cabinet) members use the most up to date portraits (see Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Kemi Badenoch, Penny Mordaunt, ect.). Cakelot1 (talk) 09:57, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I have changed it to his prior official portrait because the newer image is clearly out of focus. The 2020 photo (not his official portrait) should not be used because it is not focused on his face (it is clearly front focused on his suit instead, as you can see in the full-size image). D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 15:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I correct myself – it is back-focused on his neck and tie, though again not on his face. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 15:19, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image edit war

There seems to be an edit war on Sunak's infobox, it's constantly been changed from the 2020 image to the 2017 one, and vice versa. I believe the 2020 image is better for the infobox, it's a more up-to-date picture and was taken when Sunak was the chancellor (his most recent ministerial job). But I'd be interested to see what other users think about this. 89.243.125.209 (talk) 23:35, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't see an edit war. I see one user reverted to an older photo without rationale. Flipped back to the 2020, but discussion can continue here. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

My mistake; I see it now. @MattFullerTV: can you please weigh in as to your preference for the older photo? GreatCaesarsGhost 01:18, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

2021 fits better, image looks cleaner and more professional. The 2020 is a screenshot taken from a virtual meeting, not an official portrait distributed from the UK government, therefore it is more appropriate to use the most recent image that is compatible for the article, which is vital now that he is the new PM. gtgamer79 (talk) 15:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Dedicated political positions section

Should there be a dedicated "Political positions" section in the article, similar to former Prime Ministers Liz Truss and Boris Johnson, considering Sunak is now unopposed for PM? HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 15:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Fully agree this should be added. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 15:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2022 (2)

Why is the image under the user box squished? I'd like to fix it. 82.8.141.201 (talk) 18:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

This has since been fixed. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 15:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022

Replace infobox image to this.

Please read the talk page on my reasoning.

Please discuss the talk page if you wish to change the image to the 2020 version. The 2020 image is a screenshot taken in a virtual meeting, not an official portrait by the UK government. Therefore it is more appropriate to use the most recent image of Sunak. gtgamer79 (talk) 15:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Apologies. The image link seems to have bugged out. This is the proper, working link: Official portrait of Rishi Sunak crop 2.jpg gtgamer79 (talk) 15:38, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Worth nothing the infobox will be updated eventually once a photograph of Sunak as PM is uploaded to Wikicommons (as was the case with his predecessors). --92.30.72.123 (talk) 16:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Call for a General Election

The version of the article I edited has a list of Sunak's backers. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rishi_Sunak&oldid=1117976386#October_2022 . if only backers are mentioned and opponents are left out this is biased. I feel either the backers should be taken out or the opponents should be left in. Proxima Centauri (talk) 15:05, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

The 'backers' are from his party. Feel free to contrast with the views of opponents from his party, but don't use that excuse to add political posturing from opposition parties. -- DeFacto (talk). 15:26, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Is there a good reason why backers from the Tory Party count while opponents from other parties don't count? Proxima Centauri (talk) 16:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

WP:NOTTHENEWS. Opposition parties wanting a general election is hardly notable. It might even violate WP:DATED. — Czello 16:34, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022

This paragraph has a lot details missing (for example how did the parents meet and how did their grandparents move to the UK and then their children meet in Africa etc..). I propose slimming the paragraph down a little to get rid of some of the information. I think a lot of the information is simply too confusing and pointless. I still do not understand who moved when and where the parents got married, it is simply too confusing to read through. Furthermore a lot of the information is still suspect, like whether he is a Punjabi etc...

Please change:

Sunak was born on 12 May 1980 in Southampton to African-born Hindu parents of Punjabi Indian descent, Yashvir and Usha Sunak. He is the eldest of three siblings. His father was born and raised in the Colony and Protectorate of Kenya (present-day Kenya), while his mother was born in Tanganyika (which later became part of Tanzania). His grandfathers were born in Punjab province, British India, and migrated from East Africa with their families to the UK in the 1960s. His paternal grandfather, Ramdas Sunak, was from Gujranwala (in present-day Pakistan) and moved to Nairobi in 1935 to work as a clerk, where he was joined by his wife Suhag Rani Sunak from Delhi in 1937. His maternal grandfather, Raghubir Sain Berry MBE, worked in Tanganyika as a tax official, and had an arranged marriage with 16-year-old Tanganyika-born Sraksha, with whom he had three children, and the family moved to UK in 1966, funded by Sraksha selling her wedding jewellery. In Britain, Raghubir Berry joined the Inland Revenue, and as a collector, was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in the 1988 Birthday Honours list. Yashvir was a general practitioner, and Usha was a pharmacist, who ran a local pharmacy.

to

Sunak was born on 12 May 1980 in Southampton to Yashvir and Usha Sunak, and is the youngest of three siblings. Yashvir was a general practitioner who was born in the Colony and Protectorate of Kenya (present-day Kenya), and Usha was a pharmacist, who ran a local pharmacy and was born in Tanganyika (which later became part of Tanzania). Sunak's maternal grandmother Raghubir Sain Berry MBE moved to the UK in 1966 and worked at the Inland Revenue, as a tax collector, and was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in the 1988 Birthday Honours list. JollyShips (talk) 18:30, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

G7 tax reform

Rishi Sunak did not host the G7 Summit in 2021. He chaired the 2021 G7 finance ministerials. 108.51.208.184 (talk) 18:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Multiple Boris Johnson links

The article for Boris Johnson is linked multiple times throughout the article's image captions. Could this be fixed? It is linked three additional times when this is unnecessary. 92.30.72.123 (talk) 19:15, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done [2]. I may have gone too quickly in the other direction, but editors can re-add the links if they think it is really necessary. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:46, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (3)

82.34.195.203 (talk) 19:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Please describe the changes you wish to make. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (4)

Add hyperlink to "head boy" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_girl_and_head_boy Werner Zagrebbi (talk) 19:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done at first instance, as this term might not be familiar to people who don't know the UK education system. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:49, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (2)

Please add this: Rishi Sunak is set to become the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. 115.99.147.55 (talk) 17:55, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done [3]. Note to other editors: I believe that this lead should be shortened, as a lot of this detail will likely become irrelevant in a few months' time. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

References

Add Rishi Sunak template

Can the following template be added to the bottom of the article?

92.30.72.123 (talk) 18:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: I think the "Articles related to Rishi Sunak" which is currently at the bottom is more than sufficient. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:59, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

infobox incorrect image label

in the Infobox for the chancellor of the exchequer, an image appears labelled "Coat of arms of HM government". this is incorrect, as the label on the linked image file itself shows. the arms are those of the King. i would change it myself, but i can't find the template. NeuralWarp (talk) 22:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Incorrectly shown as Prime Minister

It's probably a long shot but **please** do not call Sunak 'prime minister' or 'prime minister-designate' (this role doesn't actually exist)

He will be Prime Minister when he is formally appointed. MBihun (talk) 13:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

“ when Graham Brady declared him as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom” - this is complete nonsense also but I’ve given up trying to edit this page as it keeps getting undone BeaujolaisFortune (talk) 13:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Sunak was now "Prime Minister-Designate said by the HM King Charles III. Einahr (talk) 15:00, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

When? There is no such title CicolasMoon (talk) 22:13, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

On discussion about the ethnicity of Sunak

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20221024-uk-shrugs-as-rishi-sunak-becomes-first-brown-pm

I think that the above article captures the general mood in of British people and ethnic minorities best: "What reassures me most, actually, is how little comment there has been about it, in a sense that we seem to have normalised this." would be a good quote to use. Essentially I think that people do not see his race when thinking about him as prime minister, similar to Truss being a woman. The racism claims in the membership ballot are over substantiated and not based factually (unproven), probably fanned by the left-wing. I would disagree with using terms like "first POC" or "first ethnic minority" in the lead since many people do not think like that nowadays and POC in particular remains controversial among ethnic minorities not used to Black American culture.

Furthermore the only real ethnic markers that should be used are his religion (Hindu), mother tongue (Punjabi?) and the fact that he is South Asian. The term used by the BBC was "British Asian" and I think it would be best to replace "Indian origin" with "British Asian" for this reason. Something like British Asian Punjabi Hindu if he is indeed a Punjabi, but he seems to have non-Punjabi heritage as well. JollyShips (talk) 18:53, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Benjamin Disraeli was Jewish, Boris Johnson is Turkish. But they don't count? 71.173.16.85 (talk) 20:14, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

<Insert MLK quote on content of character rather than color of skin>. The article already refers to the ethnicity of his parents, not sure why more is needed here. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 20:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Boris had one Ottoman-Greek ancestor. Greeks are European, which makes them white.2A04:4A43:54AF:E0A8:4CF7:62B4:9967:2DC7 (talk) 22:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Punjabi decent?

Does this not reflect his Punjabi heritage which can’t be ignored:

His grandfathers were born in Punjab province, British India, and migrated from East Africa with their families to the UK in the 1960s. 2604:3D09:D079:6D40:CCBA:85A2:554A:B2D3 (talk) 23:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

If you read the article, you'll see this is already mentioned in the first sentence of "Early life and education." OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:04, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (5)

Prime Minister-designate does not exist in the UK as a position and has not been used by the Government or Buckingham Palace at all. We have never used it before. He does not have any formal role until he is appointed by the King. We are not in a position to create titles that do not exist as this one is not even used in a de facto sense.

Ortolan57 (talk) 21:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC) Ortolan57 (talk) 21:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Not done Ecpiandy (talk) 23:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

White v Caucasian v European v Aryan-Indo-European

I see that people are mentioning BoJo being Turkish and Disraeli being Hebrew as why Sunak isn't the first "non-white"/"POC". Is "white" equivalent to Caucasian, because the Semitic peoples (Jews, Arabs) are Caucasian, as are Turks, Persians, Berbers... Thus these two counter-examples are not non-white. Or does "white" mean European. Or is it the greater group of Indo-European, which would include all South Asians as "white". What is current practise in Great Britain? -- 65.92.244.114 (talk) 03:14, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022

Sunak is incorrectly described as a British "South Asian" instead of British Indian. This is one of the many instances of the erasure of Indian identity, and it is also incomplete knowledge in general which goes against the spirit of Wikipedia. South Asia is a giant place, detailing which country and culture he is from is important. GrilledCheesecake (talk) 04:23, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: To suggest his heritage is being erased is weapons-grade baloney. Especially when the early life section details his heritage. BlueNoise (Désorienté? It's just purple) 04:29, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (3)

Prime Minister-designate of the United Kingdom to Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 25th October 2022 Rajashekar Agurla 04:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. BlueNoise (Désorienté? It's just purple) 04:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (2)

Remove the title "Prime Minister Designate" since there is no such position as Prime Minister Delegate 81.101.99.219 (talk) 04:31, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: There is an article relating to the specific title in question. It does exist. BlueNoise (Désorienté? It's just purple) 04:40, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

The term "Hindu" should be added to the lead

If you are going to include that he is Punjabi, African, etc... then at least you need to state the religion as well considering the scale of importance religion is to identity of British Asians in the UK, which is far more important than where his parents were born. JollyShips (talk) 05:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

No evidence of Punjabi descent

I have, previously, added a little note to say that the claim he is of Punjabi origin requires a citation, as it isn't supported by evidence. While it is noted that that bit has now been corrected to say simply he is of "Indian" origin (a fact not in dispute), further down the page there is a repeat of the claim that he is of "Indian Punjabi" origin. It provides a link to a book, as a citation to support this claim. However, the book does not state that he is of "Punjabi" origin, but rather that he is of "Asian" and "Indian" descent (it uses those words).

I am therefore removing the word "Punjabi" until someone can provide evidence for that claim. I am not referring to his diminutive stature and peculiar appearance here, which suggests he is more likely of Gujurati or some other regional Indian ethnicity. I am simply trying to uphold the standards of Wikipedia. Therefore, if anyone has any actual reference to him being Punjabi (as Sunak is not a recognised name) then I invite them to post it and provide details and a reference that actually supports the claim. Zubedar (talk) 17:58, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Also, a related question, what is his first language? Could he become only the second British PM not to be an English native speaker? PatGallacher (talk) 20:25, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

English is his native language. He also speaks "basic Hindi and Punjabi". https://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/lunch-with-bs-rishi-sunak-115080601060_1.html 167.30.222.54 (talk) 04:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

And while we're discussing such things, do we really have to use that ghastly phrase "of colour"? If skin colour matters, we should say what his skin colour is; if it doesn't matter, we shouldn't mention it. Those who care can look at the photo. Mhkay (talk) 14:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, he is definitely of Punjabi descent, his grandfather Ram Das moved from Gujaranwala, Punjab (now in Pakistan) to Nairobi in 1935. See Michael Ashcroft "Going for Broke: The Rise of Rishi Sunak" Biteback Publishing (November 12, 2020).Malaiya (talk) 06:00, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Also see news report ब्रिटेन के नए प्रधानमंत्री ऋषि सुनक भले ही कभी जमशेदपुर नहीं आए, पर इस शहर से गजब का कनेक्शन, UTTAMNATH PATHAK, Jagran, Mon, 24 Oct 2022, (http://www.jagran.com/jharkhand/jamshedpur-british-prime-minister-rishi-sunak-has-also-jamshedpur-connection-23161142.html)Malaiya (talk) 06:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Name spelling

Make up your minds. Is it Murty or Murthy? Then stick to what you decide. 69.59.91.99 (talk) 00:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Akshata Murty uses "Murty" although her father uses spelling "Murthy" (see https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshata-murty-5a04232/?originalSubdomain=uk). Both spellings are used in India. Malaiya (talk) 06:15, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Sunak is not first Non Christian to be Prime Minister

Disraeli was Prime Minister twice and he was Jewish 46.235.95.37 (talk) 06:04, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

He wasn't practising. From our article on Disraeli: "His father left Judaism after a dispute at his synagogue; Benjamin became an Anglican at the age of 12." QueenofBithynia (talk) 06:14, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

If he was an Anglican by the time he became PM, then he was a Christian PM. "Jews" have different religions and some none. Some "Jews" are atheists. To be a "Jew" does not necessarily mean that you follow Judaism as a religion. In other words, what does it mean when somebody says "I am Jewish"? 77.86.63.166 (talk) 08:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Claim not in source given.

"He will also be the youngest Prime Minister since William Pitt the Younger."

The source after the above sentence doesn't mention William Pitt the Younger. Sunak is a few months older than the Earl of Liverpool, who became Prime Minister in 1812[[4]https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-becomes-being-youngest-25342446]. 101090ABC (talk) 10:54, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Add "Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom" and "21st century Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom" categories

He is now the PM, so could these categories be added? 92.30.72.123 (talk) 11:02, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

“First non-Christian PM”

Sunak is not the first non-Christian PM. I believe it’s Benjamin Disraeli. 2600:4040:9AC4:5100:B9BF:96C5:374F:77C4 (talk) 23:14, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

It states on his article that Disraeli converted to Anglican Christianity at the age of 12. Ecpiandy (talk) 23:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Are you sure? I think while his father forced him to “convert”, Disraeli kept attending synagogue and maintaining a somewhat Jewish lifestyle…

2600:4040:9AC4:5100:B9BF:96C5:374F:77C4 (talk) 00:14, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

There have been atheist Prime Ministers since the days of Canning. Timrollpickering (talk) 13:41, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Is issuance of a fixed penalty notice worthy of mention in the lede?

I'm not a Brit, but from what I read, a fixed penalty notice is like a citation from the police in the US for a minor infraction, like driving one's automobile with a taillight out. It is currently mentioned in the article lede: "...being issued a fixed penalty notice for breaching COVID-19 regulations during lockdowns."

Question: is this a fact worthy of the article lede? in a BLP? I would think not, but happy to see what others think. N2e (talk) 00:08, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, in the UK it's comparable with a speeding fine - you don't go to court unless you want to contest it. Normally not worthy of mention in any bio article. But in this case, I'd say yes, it should be mentioned. He's in Category:People fined in the Partygate scandal and that should be supported in the text. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:57, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

For the record, there was a strong consensus to delete that category at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 September 19#Category:People fined in the Partygate scandal. – Fayenatic London 09:11, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Proposal

We should remove the undue emphasis on a minor infraction from the lede in this WP:BLP of a British politician. It is the equivalent of a minor traffic fine or placing one's bin out in the wrong location. So to the extent it is notable, it certainly can be mentioned in the article; but it is not lede-worthy. Attn other commenters on the matter: Fayenatic,Martinevans123, N2e

• SUPPORT—as nom, I support this proposal. It is simply undue emphasis on a very minor event; doesn't warrant over attention in the lede of this BLP. Just feeds the clickbait nature of news cycles and political scandals, where political factions play against each other. As a non-Brit, I'll also say I believe that playing these squabbles out with significant emphasis has no place in Wikipedia, even if it is incentive compatible for the news rags to do it.N2e (talk) 17:49, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
• I agree and have removed this from the lead. To be reincluded in the lead it would need to have substantial coverage in the body of the article, which it currently does not.----Pontificalibus 11:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
• Brief mention should be retained in the lede. Some editors may be missing its significance here. An FPN itself is generally not a serious criminal matter. But viewed in context as part of the Partygate scandal, which ultimately contributed to the bringing down of Boris Johnson, it is relevant to the story of what Sunak was doing before he became prime minister. The scandal, which harmed the opinion poll ratings of the party Sunak now leads, was that those in government who had issued covid restrictions most of the public were following were not following these rules themselves. The analogy to a speeding ticket doesn't work: it's more like if the government had introduced a new kind of traffic offence and then several ministers were found to have committed it shortly afterwards. Beorhtwulf (talk) 14:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (6)

”New Wikipedia image for Rishi Sunak?”

The current one is outdated and miniature, Wikipedia should update it with an appealing recent one 92.239.141.110 (talk) 14:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done The proposed image doesn't comply with our image use policy, which requires an image to be freely licenced. That image is copyrighted by the photographer. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Better image for PM Sunak

Prime Minister Sunak should have a more recent modern photo as his Wikipedia imagine instead of something so small like the current one 92.239.141.110 (talk) 14:27, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done. The image has since been changed. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (5)

create ‘liz truss’ under leader of the conservative party a hyperlink to liz truss’ wikipedia page 81.105.245.42 (talk) 10:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done. Truss is linked directly above, and we try not to overlink things. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:48, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022 (6)

Change “prime minister designate” to be removed, the position does not exist and is misleading. Gronkle100 (talk) 23:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (4)

Add Prime Minister of The United Kingdom to the side as incumbent assumed office 25th October 2022. source of the information

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/25/rishi-sunak-latest-news-speech-king-charles-prime-minister/ 81.105.245.42 (talk) 10:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

This appears to be now resolved. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022

The value of Infosys should be in billions not millions when discussing personal life and wife. 70.176.83.61 (talk) 03:46, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the sentence in the "Personal life" section is stating that Murty's 0.91% stake in Infosys is worth 746 million pounds, not that Infosys as a whole is worth 746 million. It could perhaps use a bit of rewording to make that clearer. – numbermaniac 10:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

This has been resolved with clearer wording. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:58, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

False claim in lead

He isn't the first ethnic minority PM: ...nor will he be our first ethnic minority prime minister – that was achieved by Benjamin Disraeli, who was Jewish... - The Telegraph.

Can someone remove it please? I can't because the page is protected. GhulamIslam (talk) 17:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

My mistake, that was my edit. I still think something to that effect is worth mentioning however. Perhaps something like "the second ethnic minority Prime Minister after Benjamin Disraeli and the first non-white prime minister"? Holidayruin (talk) 17:48, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

It seems a very minor thing to me, people remember Niel Armstrong for being the first man on the moon, they don't remember Buzz Aldrin for being the second. JustOeGuyWithALama (talk) 18:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I mean, Buzz Aldrin's Wikipedia article states it Holidayruin (talk) 18:41, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

First non-white PM

Maybe mentioning Sunak being the first person of color or non-white PM of the UK should be worthy of a mention in the lead. Here's sources to confirm this: Rishi Sunak to be Britain’s new prime minister, the first person of color in the role, Rishi Sunak will become the next U.K. prime minister (Sunak will be the first British Asian to become prime minister and the first nonwhite to take the top job. At 42, he'll also be the youngest prime minister in more than 200 years), Rishi Sunak set to become the UK's first non-white prime minister—and its richest, Rishi Sunak Is Set To Become Britain’s Next Prime Minister. Here’s What To Know (He will not only be Britain’s first non-white leader, but its first Asian and Hindu Prime Minister too). TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Definitely worthy of a mention in the lead, as was the case with Barack Obama becoming the first non-white US President in 2008. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 15:33, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

OPPOSE - In the UK the term "person of color" is more controversial and is widely disliked by ethnic minorities who aren't overly obsessed with American culture. Furthermore British culture is less aggressive with things like "first black president" and people tend to be elected on the basis of merit rather than ethnic background. Mitsuyashi (talk) 18:24, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

This isn't a statement saying that Sunak was elected because of his ethnic background, more rather noting a historic moment. Multiple news organizations (as I cited) are mentioning this. Instead of person of color, we could mention first non-white individual to hold the office of prime minister. I do believe this is worth mentioning. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

OPPOSE- Benjamin Disraeli is the first non-white PM. 72.51.93.205 (talk) 22:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Disraeli was white. This is obvious to anyone with eyes (and common sense). Brosefzai (talk) 07:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

imagine being richer than the king (that wasn't an insult btw) 149.20.252.132 (talk) 13:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@TDKR Chicago 101: The article already states Mr Sunak is the first British Asian, which is more precise than simply "non-white" (which is not a recognised ethinicity and has a patina of racism about it). Note that ethnicity descriptions and references are not the same in the UK as in the US. Bazza (talk) 14:02, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

He is not the first Asian Prime Minister. Boris Johnson is part Turkish. 71.173.16.85 (talk) 20:01, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

First visible minority? (as opposed to invisible ones, like BoJo, who cannot be distinguished from bog standard Brits; or Jewish ones who also cannot be distinguished) -- 65.92.244.114 (talk) 03:06, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Discussion continues at #"Person of colour". Thibaut (talk) 20:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Can someone fix "ethncity" in the footnote?

In the sentence, "While Sunak is the first Prime Minister of British Asian **ethncity**, several Prime Ministers have..." Coreybchapman (talk) 20:20, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

•  Done OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:55, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (8)

Under “Political Positions,” in the third paragraph, Sunak is misspelled as “Sunk.” It should, of course, be changed to the correct spelling, Sunak. 216.164.181.222 (talk) 20:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

•  Done OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:55, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (7)

Add brackets to Pakistan and change it to Pakistan in Early life and education, second paragraph, second line. 3mayrAlDehlavi (talk) 16:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done BlueNoise (Désorienté? It's just purple) 20:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Can the "Chancellorship of Rishi Sunak" infobox be removed?

It is already on the article Chancellorship of Rishi Sunak so it doesn't need to be here as well. A link to that page could also be useful in the chancellorship section of this article. 92.30.72.123 (talk) 19:29, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

This type of infobox is very standard. It is in pretty much all WP articles of world leaders, which include all modern era PMs. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 19:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely agree, I should clarify though that was referring to the other infobox that's now been removed (that is now located on the article Chancellorship of Rishi Sunak), as opposed to the main one. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 20:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

First POC PM

After the dust settles, there ought to be mention of his premiership being notable for him being the first person of colour to hold the office of Prime Minister.

BAME could be an alternative descriptor here Brosefzai (talk) 13:12, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Is there any sort of consensus on where Disraeli fits into this discussion? SamRCossey (talk) 13:40, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Disraeli's father left Judaism and Disraeli became an Anglican at the age of 12. But I believe he still practiced Judaism and 'bigged up' that heritage. He is the first British prime minister to have been of Jewish origin.

I think it's safer to say Sunak will be the first British Indian PM. I'm not sure where the land lies on first non-Christian (Would you class Disraeli Jewish or Anglican). Lanerobertlane (talk) 13:54, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Leaving Judaism religeously doesn't mean you are no longer ethnically Jewish. And Jewish people's status as "white" or not has changed over time. So it's not really a matter of Disraeli's religeon, but more on ethnicity and whether we are going on a modern or contemporary definition of "white".Acherics (talk) 19:22, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I suppose it comes down to the distinction between a religious grouping and ann ethnic grouping. As far as I know, Jewish heritage is protected under the Race Relations Act and is not connected to whether an individual is practicing or not. There’s certainly a sometimes heated debate about whether or not people of Jewish heritage are an ethnic minority or not. I would say they are but I’m no expert on the subject. SamRCossey (talk) 14:00, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

European Jews seldom see themselves as “just white” but in turn they never view themselves as “POC” or “BAME”. Nor would I or anyone sane allow them to. I also feel this is a step over the limit to put any great emphasis on him being non-white. It would be a lot more noteworthy if someone of a White Working Class background became PM. For emphasis of course, it would also be even more notable if someone Black British or Chinese British became PM. Also the Wikipedia mobile app is garbage so sorry if this formatting is off.2A00:23C4:3E08:4001:3D44:645E:3A24:7601 (talk) 14:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

The UK has had several white working class PMs, hasn’t it? John Major, for starters. Alpaca92 (talk) 16:34, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I suppose this [5] is just an opinion piece, but it suggests what I thought about the term "of colour": In the UK the term is, at best, seen as old fashioned and "something your gran might say, But it's also regarded as a highly offensive racial slur which recalls a time when casual racism was a part of everyday life. GhulamIslam (talk) 14:40, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

You need to keep up, the politically correct terminology keeps changing. I'm not expert, but my understanding is that "coloured" is a dreadful slur while "of colour" is completely woke. I have no idea why, and it will no doubt change as rapidly as the leadership of the Tory party. Mhkay (talk) 14:50, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Just commenting that a Sky News reporter did initially comment Sunak is the first PM from an ethnic minority but was later corrected because Disraeli is considered to be the first because of his Jewish ancestry. With regards to the ‘British Indian’ terminology, the more general ‘British Asian’ is being used by news agencies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63375281

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/tory-leadership-race-who-is-former-chancellor-rishi-sunak-12729190

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp-video/mmvo151351877852 Citizenrickey (talk) 16:04, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool's great-grandmother was an Indian woman. GhulamIslam (talk) 17:12, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the ethnic minority case, this is from The Guardian article linked below: “Sunak, whose parents are of Punjabi Indian heritage, will be the first person of colour to become British prime minister. He is not the first minority ethnic PM – Benjamin Disraeli, who held the office twice between 1868 and 1880, was of Jewish heritage. At 42, Sunak is the youngest prime minister for more than 200 years.” https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/24/sunak-poised-become-uk-pm-mordaunt-johnson-withdraw Citizenrickey (talk) 17:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

The term "POC" is still controversial among ethnic minorities in the UK. It is heavily associated with Black American culture rather than British culture. Mitsuyashi (talk) 18:25, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I've not ever known the term as being 'controversial', it's just not used as much. We had used the term BAME until the government decided to drop it this past April Brosefzai (talk) 06:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Discussion continues at #"Person of colour". Thibaut (talk) 21:04, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Keir Starmer's opinion on Sunak is ____

Why does half the political positions on the page have a contrary opinion at the end of them from Keir Starmer? No other political pages appear to do this. 121.99.77.200 (talk) 10:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

I think they should be removed or at the very least have only one left in, but certainly not multiple mentions. This page is not about Keir Starmer. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Started Energy and the environment section

Have started a section that will outline Sunak's environmental concerns and his policies on energy. It is likely to include a lot of text and references :) Richard Nowell (talk) 16:14, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for this! Your contributions have helped to greatly improve the article. Looks really nice :) --92.30.72.123 (talk) 00:20, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Rishi Sunak parents

There is nothing on Rishi Sunak's father's immigration to the UK. When did it happen etc? There is unnecessarily long coverage of his mother's parents' immigration. Fix it please. --Trickipaedia (talk) 05:36, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

"His grandfathers were born in Punjab province, British India, and migrated from East Africa with their families to the UK in the 1960s." (grandfathers being both patetnal/maternal) is already stated prior to that. Gotitbro (talk) 06:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Parents

Yashvir Sunak (Father) and Usha Sunak (Mother) should be added Ssudipta (talk) 15:52, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

They already are: read the first paragraph of "Early life and education". Bazza (talk) 16:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Probably meant the infobox, but that isn't added unless the family members are themselves public or notable figures. Gotitbro (talk) 06:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 October 2022

I am requesting the following (grammatical/punctuation only, no content concern) changes, of which only some may need to be done:

• TCI's name at the end of the third paragraph should have a capitalized T.
• In the fourth paragraph, there should be no comma after "British Asian"; please remove it.
• In the fourth paragraph, the "that" should be changed to a "the" near the end of the final sentence.

Amyipdev (talk) 01:14, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Done; done and reworded; not needed ("that" is a back-reference to what has already been mentioned). Bazza (talk) 09:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

@Bazza 7 I understand that works as a backreference, but this is still the better word. Either way, thanks! Amyipdev (talk) 13:10, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Religion

Sunak isn't the first non-Christian PM of UK, is he? He is the first Hindu, but Benjamin Disraeli was a Jew, thus making Sunak the second non-Christian PM. -- Rsrikanth05 (talk) 11:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

This has been addressed above: Disraeli became a member of the Church of England at age 12. 101090ABC (talk) 11:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Wasn't Attlee agnostic and Callaghan atheist?3Kingdoms (talk) 15:23, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Callaghan clearly was, not sure about Attlee. Gotitbro (talk) 06:10, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

This articles goes into some detail [6], but I disagree with its claims that he is an atheist. Clearly, he believed in "cultural Christianity", but not the metaphysical aspects. He says he does not know if he considers himself agnostic or if there is an afterlife, so maybe irreligious? If does however seem clear that at the very least Sunak is not the first non-Christian Prime Minister. Although one could say he is the first that was not raised Christian. 3Kingdoms (talk) 15:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Not the first "British Asian" prime minister

Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool's grandmother was an Indian woman and Benjamin Disraeli and Boris Johnson were West Asian (both were Jewish and Johnson's grandfather was a Muslim Turk). GhulamIslam (talk) 10:13, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

This claim could either be removed from the header or if there's sufficient reporting on it by reputable sources, add a note after the claim clarifying what I pointed out above. GhulamIslam (talk) 10:20, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I support the general point of this, but Boris Johnson is not in any sense Jewish. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@GenevieveDEon: He is, at least through Elias Avery Lowe and Jews are an indigenous people of West Asia, but would you support removing the claim altogether or adding a footnote after it mentioning Liverpool, Disraeli and Johnson? GhulamIslam (talk) 11:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Having a Jewish ancestor does not making Boris Johnson 'Jewish'. I also reflect that it was his great-grandfather, not his grandfather, who was Turkish. I agree with Bazza 7 below that British Asian is a recognised formal ethnic category which Rishi Sunak fulfils and none of the others would, and we should include a short statement to that effect, but I am mildly supportive of footnoting that to observe that Lord Liverpool, Benjamin Disraeli and Boris Johnson all had known Asian ancestry. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

This article is about Rishi Sunak, not the others being mentioned. In the United Kingdom, his ethnicity is recognised as British Asian. Ethnicity is not the same as ancestry. Only verified facts, not suppositions, extrapolations or other WP:OR, should be in the article. Bazza (talk) 12:51, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

This reference states is he the first British Asian (which, note, is a formal ethnicity description): Bazza (talk) 11:58, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with GenevieveDEon, a footnote rather than a sentence observing that these former PMs had Asian ancestry despite not fulfilling the "Asian/Asian British" census grouping:

South Asian (Indian): Liverpool
West Asian (Jewish): Disraeli, Cameron (great-great grandfather was German-born Jew Emile Levita), Johnson
West Asian (Turkish): Johnson (apparently his great-great grandmother was Circassian, but I believe that's considered Eastern Europe) - GhulamIslam (talk) 14:04, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm increasingly uncomfortable being associated with this persistent narrative about the very remote Jewish antecedents of Johnson (and now also Cameron). I think that including that element is well into the realm of original research, whereas Lord Liverpool's Indian heritage, Johnson's Turkish ancestry, and Disraeli's Jewishness have all been covered in reliable sources. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:57, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@GenevieveDEon: I started to think like that as I was writing it, so just Liverpool, Disraeli and Johnson are noteworthy. Do you want to make the edit yourself or show me how to style it here? - GhulamIslam (talk) 15:18, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I think it might be better if someone significantly more experienced than me did that, to be honest, as this is going to be a very highly-visited page in the coming weeks and months. But I would phrase it something like: "Rishi Sunak is the first UK Prime Minister of British Asian ethnicity. At least three others are noted as having some Asian ancestry: Benjamin Disraeli came from a diverse European Jewish backround, a community with historic roots in Asia. Boris Johnson's great-grandfather Ali Kemal Bey was Turkish. Lord Liverpool's great-grandmother Isabella Beizor was Indian." GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@GenevieveDEon: That looks fine to me, I was going to copy and add it to the page but it's currently protected and won't let me edit, so would you mind doing it please? Maybe I'd link directly to the census section of the British Asian page, specify Disraeli's background as Sephardi and the Jews' roots as being in Western Asia, and I'd place it after "the first British Asian" since there's no denying he's the first Hindu. GhulamIslam (talk) 16:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm also not against noting Johnson's Jewish heritage, since his great grandfather has a WP page, but I'll leave it up to you. GhulamIslam (talk) 16:20, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

References

I think as GenevieveDEon said, it's good to be added as a footnote. I'll add it if the page isn't edited already.Jaguarnik (talk) 19:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Jaguarnik, the claim's made at least once more in the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom section and on the Premiership of Rishi Sunak page (in the lead), can you add the footnotes there too please? GhulamIslam (talk) 20:22, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Someone has already added to premiership page. I am hesitant to add it to the "prime minister of the UK" section as I feel it is redundant. Jaguarnik (talk) 15:50, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I see someone's added 'citation needed' to the footnote. Each of the claims is cited in the relevant PM's article; we just need to copy them across. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 October 2022 (2)

Mawbawinranaghat (talk) 09:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. BlueNoise (Désorienté? It's just purple) 16:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

This Extended-confirmed-protected edit request is empty. Roostery123 (talk) 12:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

First PM appointed by King Charles

I am just wondering if we should mention the Sunak was the first PM appointed by King Charles as Liz Tuss's page mentions that she was QE2's last appointment? Dbainsford (talk) 04:23, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Definitely worth a mention, for consistency. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

No. It's trivia. This article is about Sunak, not monarchs. EddieHugh (talk) 21:48, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Origin

British politician of Indian origin. 24.242.155.243 (talk) 00:33, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2022

He is the youngest prime minister of UK in the history. 2607:FEA8:539C:8A00:A120:9E5A:9628:8339 (talk) 00:57, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_age. GordonGlottal (talk) 03:53, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The correct pronunciation of the last name

I believe the correct pronunciation of the last name should "ʃunak", the first syllable should be "ʃ" and not "s", "ʃunak" shows up in vedic history while "sunak" does not. Also, the name should be in the native language Hindi as well, "ऋषि शुनक" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Singlesimple (talk • contribs) 20:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

nah, we are in england not in india 86.220.145.123 (talk) 10:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Citation needed about Hindi being his native language, since his family is from Punjab and Hindi not being one of the major languages there.

Pinging Ériugena (talk · contribs) who added his name in Hindi on multiple wikis. Thibaut (talk) 17:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

The word ऋषि is of Sanskrit origin and the two sounds, retroflex r and retroflex sh are non-existent in Punjabi. So, using Gurmukhi to transcribe his name would be incorrect. Hindi, uses the same spelling as Sanskrit, however, the pronunciation is slightly different in Hindi. Regardless, I believe the correct Historic pronunciation of his last name should be "शुनक" (ʃunak) in Sanskrit. Therefore, I suggest that ऋषि शुनक be added as the Devanagari (this covers Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi, and Nepali) spelling be added for his name.

[subscribe] Singlesimple (talk) 08:55, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

He pronounces his lastname as rhyming with buck and not pack. The pronunciation should be correct.--Trickipaedia (talk) 05:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Pronunciation of first name

Obviously, Google, YouTube, Australia, The Washington Post, and the BBC might just be repeating Joe Biden's gaffe but they, Hindi, and Sanskrit disagree markedly with the current lede pronunciation sourced to Collins. The IPA /rɪʃɪ/ would be pronounced "RIH-shih", not "RIH-shee". That would be some version of /rɪʃiː/. Is Collins right and the rest of the world wrong? or did they just mistranscribe this? Do we have British sources that accurately describe the correct pronunciation that we could replace Collins with? — LlywelynII 09:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

In India we pronounce this name normally as Rishi - Shi - as you pronounce Shi of Sheep's Shee. The meaning of this name in Sanskrit is Hindu Sege, see Rishi. Rock Stone Gold Castle (talk) 11:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Rishi means Hindu sage. The IPA for the first name is fine but the IPA for the surname is wrong - it should be "/sʊnʌk" -Gabbar13 (talk) 12:05, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I think what the Collins does is describing how the name is usually pronounced in British English, not in Hindi or Punjabi. Thibaut (talk) 12:22, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Agreed but should it not be pronounced like how it is pronounced in Hindi/Punjabi?-Gabbar13 (talk) 12:30, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

No because he is British and speaks with a British accent. I can't find any videos of him saying his own name but the usual British pronunciation is /ˈrɪʃiː ˈsuːnæk/ (the vowel /ɪ/ never appears at the end of a syllable in usual transcriptions of British English). TWM03 (talk) 12:39, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Here is a clip of him pronouncing his first name. I think it is clear that he pronounces it /rɪʃiː/. TWM03 (talk) 13:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

To make the IPAc-en template helpful, it should be /rɪʃi/. That gives "y in happy" as the example on mouseover, which Collins have decided to transcribe as /ɪ/ in line with more conservative RP pronunciation. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 20:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Bazza (talk) 09:42, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

thanks, I added the stress back, forgot to put it in the comment above – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:20, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I am a native Hindi and Punjabi speaker here. I know basic Sanskrit. /rɪʃɪ/ is the correct Hindi pronunciation. The correct Sanskrit pronunciation is, /r̩ʂɪ/ , it is both uncommon and subtly different than Hindi.

The Sanskrit pronunciation consists of a retroflex r and a retroflex sh(ʃ). Hindi speakers use non-retroflex r(like Spanish r) and non-retroflex sh. However, English speakers, who use retroflex r are actually coincidentally 50% correct about the original Sanskrit pronunciation. Singlesimple (talk) 09:04, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Found a photo of Rishi with some cows

https://www.rishisunak.com/campaigns/standing-farmers

Is this image copyrighted? If not it could be uploaded to Wikicommons. 92.30.72.123 (talk) 19:50, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The very end of the webpage you linked above states "Copyright 2022 Rishi Sunak Conservative MP for Richmond (Yorks). All rights reserved." —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 22:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Can't be uploaded to Commons in its current state; the campaign would need to license it in an appropriate way. Amyipdev (talk) 22:49, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah I see, understood. --92.30.72.123 (talk) 11:33, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2022 (9)

Please paraphrase and add this: "As he arrived at Downing Street in his car following his audience with the king, there were boos and heckles from the crowd. Others had waved to him." Gabbar13 (talk) 00:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

References

This website shows that video at the bottom.-Gabbar13 (talk) 00:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

A Conservative Party member had the audacity to call a Radio Talk Show "LBC" and complain about his "colour", likening him to Al Qaeda members. See this.-Gabbar13 (talk) 00:20, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Where do you think it should put? Roostery123 (talk) 00:23, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Anywhere is fine. The point I am trying to make is that racism is still a factor - especially his losing out to Liz Truss as leader of the Tories earlier this year.-Gabbar13 (talk) 00:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Racism is still a factor in what? You need to be precise in what you want changed, as shown at {{Edit extended-protected}}. You will need to provide solid references for your last assertion. Bazza (talk) 09:19, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

GhulamIslam, can you please do the needful? I don't have time for this.-Gabbar13 (talk) 12:26, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, the page is protected I can't edit it. GhulamIslam (talk) 17:39, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

@Gabbar13 I added a sentence in about that. Roostery123 (talk) 22:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The source doesn't explicitly make a link between racism and this sentence. Some people heckled; some people waved... this is normal and not noteworthy. EddieHugh (talk) 13:35, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Should his status as the richest Prime Minister be mentioned in the lead?

At a net worth of £730M, Rishi Sunak is the richest Prime Minister in British history with the second richest Prime Minister being Edward Stanley, with a net worth of £7M (about £450M when adjusted for inflation). Should this fact be mentioned within the lead of the article alongside the fact that he is the first British Asian and Hindu Prime Minister, considering that it is arguably just as significant, if not more so, in regards to his public image within the UK? MesozoicMaenad (talk) 12:28, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The lead is for a summary of the rest of the article and is already overloaded. It already contains information about his wealth. You will need to get some consensus by justifying why you think this is important enough to be elevated from the main article (where it is not currently mentioned) into the lead. I don't think it is. Bazza (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Find good sources stating that his personal wealth is the greatest and it can be considered. All of the good sources that I've seen state that he's married to someone who is very rich. Some sources assume that a lot of that wealth is 'his', without explaining why. Some questionable sources (and click-bait headlines) assume that all of the wealth of Sunak and his wife is 'his', without explaining why (probably because the assumption is wrong). This last group leads to the claim that he is the richest PM, which is a claim that we can and should ignore. EddieHugh (talk) 13:42, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

If this is true it should certainly be mentioned, especially when you consider the broader context of how rich British politicians tend to be and the current cost of living crisis. The cost of living crisis which has been a major political issue in this country for months. If it is true that the Prime Minister is three-quarters of the way to being a billionaire then this is highly pertinent information that should be included in the lead. JustOneGuyWithALama (talk) 4:39, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2022 (2)

Change the. portrait image of rishi 2604:3D09:1380:6A0:61F9:9B8F:937:D8E4 (talk) 18:56, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: You need to tell us which replacement image to use and why. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 22:40, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit

Sir please upload his parents name 2409:4071:4E8D:F723:0:0:E18B:B705 (talk) 11:28, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Maternal family from Ludhiana

The 'Early life and education section' mentions Sunak's maternal family being from Tanganyika. There is no mention of his maternal side being originally from Ludhiana in Punjab, India. Here the details are mentioned that Sunak's maternal grandfather, Raghubir Berry was a native of the Jassowal Sudan village of Ludhiana and had moved to Tanganyika (now Tanzania) in Africa. This should be mentioned here, just like Sunak's paternal side is mentioned to be from Gujranwala. CrashLandingNew (talk) 22:09, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The ancestral details were unilaterally removed recently on non-notability (though strangely retained deatils about the grandmothers), then half-restored by another editor. The ancestry is notable here (being the first British-Asian UK Prime Minister, see also Brack Obama), his maternal grandfather also being an MBE, the extensive media coverage of the immigrant details of Sunak also attests to this. I will restore the section per this and per WP:STABLE. Gotitbro (talk) 04:45, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I have undone your change. The grandparents, who are non-notable in Wikipedia terms (they have no articles of their own), had more information than his father and siblings put together. We need only illustrate his Punjabi and East African "heritage" by noting where his grandparents came from (three from Punjab, one from Tanganyika), and when they arrived in the UK. More than that is WP:UNDUE. Bazza (talk) 12:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

The details on the grandfathers had been there for quite some time, per WP:BRD you need to gain consensus here first than unilateral removals. The removals are also non-uniform, your first edit above retained the grandmothers ancestry while removing that of the grandfathers, the latest edit restored the version of another editor which retains details only of the paternal grandfather; if they need be removed then it should all uniformly go. I have already noted above why the details are relevant (i.e. notable and not UNDUE) especially in the context of immigrant and British Asian/Indian history which the appointment of Sunak as PM highlights (this can be compared with Barack Obama's/Family of Barack Obama article which goes into his ethnicity in detail and whose appointment as US President was of a similar nature). His maternal grandfather, an MBE, is also notable on his own. The media coverage of this has been noted and is extensive further highlighting this fact. I will restore them per WP:STABLE, till further consensus is achieved. Gotitbro (talk) 14:23, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Early life: grandparents

There has been some repeated undoing of the information about Sunak's grandparents, with the most recent undo ironically citing WP:STABLE, which guideline includes it should never be invoked as an argument in a content dispute. Maintaining a stable version is, by itself, not a valid reason to revert or dispute edits and editors who attempt to enforce a stable version may be blocked from editing without warning.

Consensus is now required about the content of this section before further edits are made. There are two main versions being used:

1. One paragraph containing basic referenced information about Sunak's non-WP:NOTABLE and unnamed grandparents' geographical origin, their emigration to East Africa, and subsequent migration to the United Kingdom. The length of this paragraph is comparable to those for his parents or siblings. (link to this version)
2. Detailed referenced information about Sunak's non-WP:NOTABLE but named grandparents' geographical origin; one grandfather's emigration to Tanganyika, and his occupation, arranged marriage and family arrival there; the other's emigration to Nairobi and occupation and marriage there, including his wife's origin; both sets of grandparents' subsequent migrations to the United Kingdom, including how this was funded by one set; and for one grandfather his subsequent employment and award of MBE. The length of this paragraph is greater than that for his parents and siblings combined, and marginally greater than the paragraph on Sunak's early and formative years and education. (link to this version)

My own view is that the longer version is off-topic and overdetailed for an article whose specific topic is Rishi Sunak. It may be appropriate to give a flavour of his family origins. It is not appropriate to give this level of detail about relatives of his who have no Wikipedia articles of their own and are thus not WP:NOTABLE. His two children do not enjoy that level of scrutiny, to the extent that they are (rightly) not named. Bazza (talk) 14:41, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Not sure why a new section has been opened for this (the one above existed). WP:BRD was cited along with STABLE (both valid when cited in tandem) as procedure which your unilateral edits do not follow on. I have already addressed issues of notability and non-uniform removals above which you can address here. Will further add (to the points raised in the prior section): Having articles, is not a criteria for the inclusion of publicly available details in the body of a article nor are they a bar to notability. Editors simply haven't bothered as of yet (as they did not until Obama got elected to create articles about his mother, father, family et al). A single paragraph about his links of Indian descent through his grandparents is neither UNDUE nor a matter of WP:LENGTH. Ancestral/genealogical details on public figures are common hereon enwiki (e.g. J. R. R. Tolkien) and as I have noted in the section above especially relevant here and in similar such cases (e.g. Obama). You are so far the only editor objecting to information which is commonly cited here on enwiki and looked out for by WP:READERS. The ancestral heritage through his grandfathers is relevant in the context of immigrant and British Asian/Indian history (regardless of whether details about his other family members are present or not). Lastly, ancestral details were inexplicably retained for some of his grandparents; I have removed these for now to maintain uniformity of the removal. Gotitbro (talk) 15:06, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

The amount of detail was excessive for non-notable (in the Wikipedia sense) people. The moves to Africa and then to the UK are worth summarising. The rest of the information about his grandparents appears to have no relevance to the subject of this article (Rishi Sunak): has he said something about their occupations, marital age or exact origins being important to him in his life? If so, they might be relevant here, with that connection stated. EddieHugh (talk) 18:11, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Footnote

The footnote discussed above, after "first British Asian... to hold that position" has been removed, I think accidentally by u:Bazza 7, can someone please restore it? The page is protected:

GhulamIslam (talk) 16:34, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that we need such a footnote, unless there is a consensus to include it. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:14, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

It was no accident. This article is about Rishi Sunak, not the ancestry of other prime ministers. That he is the first British Asian to hold the post is backed by several references, and needs no further elaboration on whether others might have similar but different claims. If a reference can be found to say a PM before Sunak was British Asian, then this can be revisited. A similar irrelevant footnote is in the main article, and ought to be removed as well. Bazza (talk) 18:24, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

There was a three-way consensus, between myself, GenevieveDEon and Jaguarnik.

People, especially outside Britain, might not be familiar with "British Asian" or "Asian / Asian British" as a census grouping, there's already been a lot of confusion on this talkpage where people have brought up Johnson's Türkish heritage (not surprising given the amount of media coverage it got: [7][8][9][10]). GhulamIslam (talk) 22:20, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

There are at least two editos here (myself included) who object to the footnote as unnecessary. Please seek a broader consensus. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:32, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

British Asian is clearly linked. If there's uncertainty as to what it means, readers can read its article. You have failed to explain what White British Johnson's (or any other PM's) ancestry has to do with Rishi Sunak, who this article is about. Are you saying that Sunak is not the first British Asian prime minister? If so, then provide a reference for that here so editors can check it, then I'll delete the statement from the article. Bazza (talk) 10:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't really want to be inclued in this alleged consensus. I think the wording I proposed was good for the purpose I designed it for; but I'm actually neutral on whether we need to use it. GhulamIslam has been quite vocal in calling for it, and I do appreciate the arguments, but I really don't want to be included in a !vote count either way. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:59, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Should there be a section on Sunak transferring resources away from deprived Urban areas?

I think it merits a section because it's not only about what Sunak said in July 2022. It's about how Sunak and the government behaved while Sunak was Chancellor of the Exchequor. this is what I wrote, it was taken out. Proxima Centauri (talk) 15:42, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Did it have any impact? Giving it a separate section draws attention to it, so if there was little or no impact, that would be WP:UNDUE ("Undue weight can be given in several ways, including ... prominence of placement"). EddieHugh (talk) 20:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I didn't read what you wrote. Original research must summarise cited info. Usually politicians get a section: "Views and policies" or similar. That is where a sentence on your issue, cited from the Guardian etc, would be appropriate. Not hard to find stuff in the Grauniad. Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

LGBT rights

I believe that it should be mentioned in this section about how Rishi Sunak has voted in the past for these issues, as this section in his page only throws around a few quotes that he has said that promote LGBT equality, despite the fact that on record, his voting history does not align with these statements - and therefore I believe that this section is not pushing a neutral view, but instead a biased view that makes the PM look like he has always promoted LGBT rights.

I believe it would be crucial to this page to include write up about his active voting habits when it comes to LGBT rights.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25428/rishi_sunak/richmond_%28yorks%29/divisions?policy=826 https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25428/rishi_sunak/richmond_%28yorks%29/divisions?policy=6703 AjeetSamra (talk) 08:58, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

If you have a cited source of his voting record, add it! His statements are way less value than his voting record. Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

"Category:British politicians of Pakistani descent"

I don't know what Wikipedia's policy is on classing such things, but is he really of Pakistani descent if his ancestors left what was then India 12 years before it was partitioned? Can somebody really be called of Pakistani descent if none of their ancestors ever called themselves Pakistani? I checked the most famous non-Muslim born in what is now Pakistan, Guru Nanak, and he has no categories relating to being a Pakistani. For a Western analogy, if someone's ancestors left Strasbourg when it was German, they wouldn't be in any way "of French descent". Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:56, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

That cat was anachronistically added recently. For pre-partition immigrants, it is dependent on how they/their descendants identify as. Most continue to identify as Indians (here for e.g. Indians in Kenya/Indians in Tanzania) as does Sunak clearly, summarised by himself:

British Indian is what I tick on the census, we have a category for it. I am thoroughly British, this is my home and my country, but my religious and cultural heritage is Indian, my wife is Indian. I am open about being a Hindu...

Moreover, only his paternal side of the family is from Gujranwala (now in Pakistan), his maternal grandfather apparently being from Ludhiana in India.[11] Gotitbro (talk) 18:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the current category of people of Punjabi descent serves right - might also be worth mentioning that his grandparents emigrated during the time of tge British Raj in the article though. GR86 (📱) 15:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Already mentioned as "His grandfathers were born in Punjab province, British India, and migrated from East Africa with their families to the UK in the 1960s." Gotitbro (talk) 07:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I would go with his self identification. The Partition of India was a cultural mess for all concerned. Whatever the British did to India, if someone calls themselves Indian, we should go with that. To call him a Pakistani would imply he is a Muslim, which why he may prefer Indian, as a Hindu.

Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:20, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Keir Starmer overlinks

Keir Starmer's page does not need to be linked on this article multiple times, only one link is necessary. Starmer's opinions are notable as the leader of the opposition, but his article doesn't need to be overlinked here, so would recommend removing all but one of the article links. 92.15.144.174 (talk) 16:02, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I get where you're coming from, but they will have a relationship over time, so again, over time, a few comments back and forth are ok to develop. Only if they add something though. cheers Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:09, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, but Starmer's comments being mentioned are not the issue, the issue is his page is hyperlinked multiple times when only one link to his article is necessary. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 10:07, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

@EddieHugh: Notability is not a requirement for any field in infobox. You may read more details about infobox in MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE. STSC (talk) 08:06, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Yep: "The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance". Including parents and children when they're all non-notable is cluttering the infobox. EddieHugh (talk) 13:09, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

---

Sunak on farming

Can some reworded information from this be added to the article? Sunak's thoughts on farming seem like a good addition to the political views section of the article. https://www.rishisunak.com/campaigns/standing-farmers 92.15.144.174 (talk) 12:19, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

What wording would you like, and where would you like to add it? You will need to provide reliable sources; I'm not sure that [12] would be considered as such, likely having a somewhat biased view (as you'd expect from a political campaign website). Bazza (talk) 12:32, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm sure reliable sources that discuss Sunak's views on farming exist, though agree not to use [13] for the above reason (as a political campaign website will have a somewhat biassed view). --92.15.144.174 (talk) 16:01, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Official Sunak cabinet photo

An official photo of Rishi Sunak's cabinet has been posted; https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1585252192831049730

Can this photo be uploaded to Wikicommons and added to the Sunak ministry article? It's in significantly better quality than the current photo on there. 92.30.72.123 (talk) 15:43, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Wiki is so freaky about photos. I don't know how to grab stuff like that. "Fair Use". Maybe I'll try. The lead photo is awful, isn't it. Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:14, 30 October 2022 (UTC) I'll probably get whacked, but I'll try. Tx for the link.

That photo is on Twitter. Get a better, direct link. It would be OK further down, but we need a head shot. Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:17, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Update: It has since been uploaded to Wikicommons under the government licence. Significantly better than the old photo and in high definition. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 16:02, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Are comparisons to Barack Obama worth a mention in the article?

A few reliable sources have drawn comparisons to Sunak's appointment as Prime Minister to Barack Obama becoming the first African American President of the United States. Is this comparison worth a mention in the article, or is it not seen as necessary to include? 92.15.144.174 (talk) 13:40, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think so, as the only comparisons to Obama I can find in RS are attributing them to someone else. QueenofBithynia (talk) 17:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Just realised you are the same editor who's been editing the Countess of Chester Hospital baby deaths article as well, I want to thank you for organising the reliable sources on there. Article looks a lot better now. And as for my suggestion here, understood, best to leave it out then. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 09:15, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

No worries, thank you for your edits here and on the other article! (I hope you don't think I've been WP:FOLLOWING you btw, I think we just edit in very similar areas).

re your original comment: I wouldn't object to a claim included in the article if it was attributed to a particular person or newspaper, but without specific attribution it seems undue. QueenofBithynia (talk) 20:38, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

No worries, I never thought you were following me. You're right in saying we just edit in similar areas. And yeah I agree it seems undue to include as of now. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 12:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

"He resigned as chancellor in July 2022, followed by Johnson's resignation amid a government crisis."

This sentence in the lead implies that it was Rishi's resignation alone that led to the government crisis that caused Johnson's resignation. Wasn't it Sajid Javid who resigned first?

I suggest changing the above sentence to "Sunak resigned as Chancellor of the Exchequer on 5 July 2022, and was the second of 61 Conservative MPs to resign during the government crisis. His resignation, along with the resignation of Javid as Health Secretary, ultimately led to Johnson's own resignation."

92.15.144.174 (talk) 09:12, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Support: The way it's written currently just echoes Johnson supporters' story and is not WP:NPOV, you've described it much closer to how it was reported. GhulamIslam (talk) 11:50, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Glad you agree, the way I've described it should replace the sentence currently in the lead. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 19:06, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree, but as the page is currently protected I can't change it. GhulamIslam (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

We need further discussion on this with other editors so it can be changed. My sentence is a more accurate representation of what happened. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 12:17, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Awful lead picture!

This picture is just weird. So many better shots of the man. Whether you like him or not, please, find something better! Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:07, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

It will be replaced when an official portrait is released, which won't be much longer. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 10:08, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done - Totally agree. The current picture is a screenshot from a literal video. gtgamer79 (talk) 01:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree too, but it keeps getting changed back as the main picture over and over, no matter how many times it's replaced. It's almost as chaotic as UK politics has been for the last month or so. The only thing that will stop this is an official portrait of Sunak as PM, which will (thankfully) highly likely be released soon. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 20:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Can Rishi's tribute to the Queen be added to the article?

Below is Rishi's tribute to the Queen;

"Thank you. For a lifetime of service to our country, for showing us what duty means and for always putting the country and commonwealth first. There will never be another like Queen Elizabeth II."

Is this significant enough to be added to the article? 92.15.144.174 (talk) 13:07, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done - edit can be seen at the bottom of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi_Sunak#Public_image gtgamer79 (talk) 01:56, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! --92.15.144.174 (talk) 20:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Sunak's thoughts on Margaret Thatcher

This seems like a notable thing to include in the article. He said in a July 2022 that he thought Margaret Thatcher was "the best Tory leader" because she "delivered multiple election victories and changed the country for the better." Here is Sunak's speech discussing Thatcher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVFbXqH3KT0&ab_channel=TheIndependent

It is also discussed in a reliable source here: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/rishi-sunak-tory-leadership-thatcher-b2133573.html 92.15.144.174 (talk) 09:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Why is it worth including? It was a short answer to a short question. Has anything happened as a result of his answer? EddieHugh (talk) 18:08, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

"Person of colour"

Article intro says Sunak is "the first British Asian and Hindu Prime Minister, as well as the first person of colour to hold the office", citing the "person of colour" clause to the New York Times, a generally authoritative newspaper but one that consistently oversimplifies or misrepresents British politics. The term "person of colo(u)r" is not used as much in the UK as in the US, and reflects the highly politicised practice of racial classification in the US in which all human ethnic diversity is reduced to a binary where everyone either is or isn't a "person of color" (though the semantically equivalent "colored person" is now condemned). This isn't the usual way people are categorised in the UK, and so I have chopped the end off that sentence and it now reads "the first British Asian and the first Hindu prime minister", with the existing sources footnoted after the pre-edit comma left in place. There is something to be said for the article covering how Sunak's ethnicity has been noted around the world, but there is no particular reason to single out a perspective peculiar to the United States in the intro. Beorhtwulf (talk) 13:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Britannica says: “Sunak stood to be the first person of colour and first Hindu to lead Britain.”

The Guardian (which is a British newspaper) says: “Yesterday Sunak told the Conservatives it was time to “unite or die” as he prepared to enter No 10 as the first person of colour to become UK prime minister”.

There’s a large proportion of sources, Amercian and British, that mention he’s the first person of colour to become PM, this removal and the rationale seem a bit WP:POV to me. Thibaut (talk) 14:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I added this because I don't think "the first British Asian and the first Hindu prime minister" quite covers it. He is the first non-white prime minister in British history, which is surely deserving of mention. To the point that "person of colo[u]r" is an American usage, the Guardian has carried headlines such as "Rishi Sunak to become first British PM of colour and also first Hindu at No 10". HurricaneHiggins (talk) 16:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

"Asian / Asian British" is a formal ethnicity in UK censuses, why substitute to "of colo[u]r" just for American readers? Isn't everyone technically "of colo[u]r"? GhulamIslam (talk) 16:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

"Person of color" seems a bit racist.-116.75.76.19 (talk) 17:39, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

It’s not though, otherwise the NYT, The Guardian and Encyclopædia Britannica wouldn’t use it. Thibaut (talk) 18:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Person of color#Criticism. GhulamIslam (talk) 19:17, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I’m not really convinced, especially since there a lot of sources, including progressive media outlets like the NYT or The Guardian that don’t see an issue with that term.

What about “non-white” as suggested by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · contribs) in #First non-white PM above? Thibaut (talk) 21:00, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Use of "non-caucasian" is another option, seeing as the point of the matter isn't Sunak's skin color, but his heritage. BlueNoise (Désorienté? It's just purple) 21:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe we've ever had a PM from the Caucasus. 'Caucasian' is for white people is a term rooted in a deeply outdated racial theory, and it's mercifully not in widespread use in the UK. Per WP:ENGVAR, we shouldn't use it here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:32, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

It is, but there should be something people can use to show the importance of the first nonwhite PM, as HH pointed out above. — LlywelynII 09:58, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

First visible minority PM? (as opposed to invisible minorities, who are not distinguishable from bog standard Brits, like BoJo who cannot be distinguished as a Turkish Jewish descendant, or Disraeli, who also cannot be distinguished... ) Minority because he's not a bog standard Brit, descendant of Celts or Angles and Jutes and Vikings (and Viking descended Normans) -- 65.92.244.114 (talk) 04:58, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The use of "person of colour" or "coloured" person is a heavily debated issue. There's no strict wrong or right answer. Many Anglo-American media companies do still use those phrases, but many non-white people find the term offensive - Benedict Cumberbatch notably used those phrases and apologised after realising the controversies, and the associations with the racial segregation in the US before the civil rights movement influenced change in the way that the country operates.

It should be a noted topic however that Rishi Sunak is the first PM that is not white, as this is not just a success story for some brown people/British Asians/Hindus, but also a success story for some people that are non-white. I must clarify that I am not insinuating that Rishi Sunak is not simply a success story for all people that are ethnically aligned with the new PM. AjeetSamra (talk) 08:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Person of colour has been perfectly acceptable to British, American, and even French media (to mention a few) when describing Sunak. An example from The Guardian: “Sunak, whose parents are of Punjabi Indian heritage, will be the first person of colour to become British prime minister. He is not the first minority ethnic PM – Benjamin Disraeli, who held the office twice between 1868 and 1880, was of Jewish heritage.” https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/24/sunak-poised-become-uk-pm-mordaunt-johnson-withdraw https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131449394/rishi-sunak-becomes-the-u-k-s-first-prime-minister-of-color https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/uk-pm-color-equality-fight-92073432 https://amp.france24.com/en/europe/20221024-rishi-sunak-young-ultra-rich-and-uk-s-first-pm-of-colour https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/24/rishi-sunak-britain-new-prime-minister/ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/24/world/europe/rishi-sunak-uk-first-prime-minister-color.html Citizenrickey (talk) 17:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

It should be a noted topic however that Rishi Sunak is the first PM that is not white […]

Agreed, so how should we phrase this? Thibaut (talk) 10:59, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@Thibaut120094 it would be appropriate to use the term non-white or the use of the phrase "not white".

The page states "He was appointed Prime Minister on 25 October 2022, becoming the first British Asian and Hindu to hold that position."

It could appropriately changed by simply adding non-white into the existing sentence. "become the first British Asian, Hindu, and non-white person to hold that position".

Equally it could be added as a completely new sentence stating that "He is also the first non-white person to become Prime Minister in the UK. AjeetSamra (talk) 12:54, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Added. Thibaut (talk) 15:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

It should be removed. Barack Obama is not described as "the first non-white person to become President in the U.S." on his article. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 18:56, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Agree, and you've pointed out an inconsistency here. The sentence was better as it was. GhulamIslam (talk) 19:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@Neveselbert if it is crucial to maintain this level of consistency among every single Wikipedia page - then why should the default solution be to remove factual information from Rishi Sunak's page? It is monumental for the UK that their is finally a Prime Minister, just as we would note that Margaret Thatcher is the first woman Prime Minister. If there is inconsistency that needs attending to, then perhaps information should be added to Barack Obama's page. AjeetSamra (talk) 20:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Right, but we aren't noting that she was the first "non-male" prime minister, she's noted as the first female. Likewise, "British Asian" is sufficient here, "non-white" is unnecessary. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 21:31, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@Neveselbert perhaps your attention needs to be diverted to Margaret

Thatcher's and Barack Obama's Wikipedia pages - I have linked them below. The reason why we don't say that Margaret Thatcher is the first

"non-male", Prime Minister, is because that is a given, it's a very small process of deduction. If someone is a female - they are not a male. However just because someone is a British Asian, does not mean they are non-white. It can sometimes be considered racist to make this suggestion (I should make it explicitly clear that I am sure that you are not a racist - and that you are simply contributing your knowledge to Wikipedia). This short paragraph should answer and dismiss your comments, however I have delved further into discussing your comment if you do so wish to read.

It would be silly and arbitrary to be this clinically consistent across Wikipedia. Like I, and others have stated previously, it is of importance for many of the citizens of the UK that their is a Prime Minister that is not white - which completely changes the pattern that preceeded Sunak.

There is a notable distiction between "British Asian" and "non-white" person, they are most certainly not the same thing and therefore it is most certainly not "unnecessary" to mention this in the Wikipedia article - as you mentioned. If it were unnecessary to note that the Prime Minister isn't white and has broken trend in such a way - then why would The Telegraph write an article about it, with non-white used so prominently in the headline (see below).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/28/rishi-sunak-becoming-britains-first-non-white-pm-reflects-institutions/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher?wprov=sfla1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama?wprov=sfla1 AjeetSamra (talk) 22:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

However just because someone is a British Asian, does not mean they are non-white. Yes it does, it means they are not White British. It can sometimes be considered racist to make this suggestion No, it's not a suggestion, it's simply the way ethnic groups are categorised in the UK. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 23:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@Neveselbert nationality is an ambiguous topic. Someone most certainly can be a British Asian, as well as being white. Hope this helps. AjeetSamra (talk) 07:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

That's just not how it works in the UK. You cannot be British Asian and white under UK ethnicity classifications. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:00, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Neveselbert As I have stated - Nationality is ambiguous. Furthermore, being non-white is not an ethnicity as you have insinuated. You most certainly can be a British Asian that is white. A white person can be born in Asia, and move to the UK.

And Wikipedia is not run by UK ethnicity classifications, and nor does the rest of the world. The Wikipedia page will not be read by conductors of the UK census, but it will be read by visitors of the page from across the globe.

Hope this clears things up for you. AjeetSamra (talk) 10:10, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

No, you cannot be under UK law. The subject of this article is from the UK so therefore it's entirely appropriate to use UK ethnicity classifications. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Neveselbert you most certainly can be White and a British Asian. If you refer to the UK government's website regarding the 2021 census, you will see that "White and Asian" is listed, as well as "Any other Mixed or multiple ethnic background", "Any other White background" and "Any other ethnic group". Hope this clears that up for you.

You've also failed to address a few things that I mentioned earlier - so I'll just clarify below to make sure you understood.

Nationality is ambiguous.

Non-white is not an ethnicity, as you insinuated.

The rest of the world is not governed by UK law. It would be arbitrary to use it in this context because Rishi Sunak is a world leader - not just a UK leader. Furthermore it would be silly for someone to have to understand UK law to read a globally visited Wikipedia page about a global leader, fronting one of the biggest nations recognised globally. AjeetSamra (talk) 10:30, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

No, "British Asian" cannot be used to describe a person who is white. The rest of the world is irrelevant, he is a UK leader first and foremost. There is no reason to describe him as "non-white". Not even Nelson Mandela is described like that. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Neveselbert I want to draw upon the section where you have stated that "The rest of the world is irrelevant". This is not in the spirit of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not just a space for people from the UK. This eurocentric mindset is not helping this topic. The general consensus from Talk: Rishi Sunak, is that this information should be included.

I believe I've said my fair share and I have answered the remarks that you have most recently made in my previous contributions to Talk: Rishi Sunak.

Below is Nelson Mandela's Wikipedia page, if you do so wish to contribute to it, as this discussion is in regard to Rishi Sunak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela?wprov=sfla1 AjeetSamra (talk) 11:49, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

No, I meant irrelevant to this conversation because the subject of this article is British. There is no consensus to include such a description. It's not common practice to describe people by what they are not, defining them against something. It's not how things are usually done here. Please see British Asian § Census, as you will see, there is no subcategory for white British Asians, if there even is such a thing since "Asian" is used to describe ethnicities originating from Asia. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 11:56, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

But this whole section of Rishi Sunak's talk page is about the fact that he is what some would refer as a "person of colour" - which white people would not fall under. To recognise this achievement in British politics and how the British goverment is moving away from it's white-centric colonial legacy, the term non-white is the most appropriate way to recognise this milestone. It seems like we're taking a step backwards by removing Sunak's non-white heritage from this page. British Asian or Hindu, do not mean the same thing. 149.170.252.35 (talk) 18:32, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:OR. There is no evidence that "the British goverment is moving away from it's white-centric colonial legacy" as a result of Sunak's appointment. It is not appropriate to describe someone as being "non-" something in wp:wikivoice. It's frankly ridiculous to say "we're taking a step backwards by removing Sunak's non-white heritage" when we've done nothing of the sort, his non-white heritage is explicitly described as being that of British Asian and Hindu. Readers are not stupid, they can read between the lines. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:57, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, you don't need to keep pinging, I'm subscribed to this discussion. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Can the section of his chancellorship be shortened?

As he is now the PM, there is a separate article for Rishi's tenure as Chancellor, which covers his chancellorship in great detail ala Chancellorship of Gordon Brown, Chancellorship of Winston Churchill, etc. So could some of the less notable information relating to his chancellorship here be removed, leaving only the most notable parts? Look at the "Chancellor of the Exchequer (1997–2007)" section of Gordon Brown's article for a good way this could be done. 92.15.144.174 (talk) 19:55, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Good idea, even if the separate article didn't exist. If only more people took the same approach to politicians' current roles. EddieHugh (talk) 18:13, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree it's a good idea. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 11:39, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Can the infobox picture be updated with this one?

"File:Rishi Sunak's first speech as Prime Minister Front (cropped).jpg"

This seems like a good infobox picture to use for the time being, until an official portrait is released. 92.15.144.174 (talk) 17:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

He looks in pain and isn't looking at the camera. Just because a photo exists doesn't mean we need to change it on WP. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 18:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done - Thank you for the request, image is newer and in higher quality, therefore, it has replaced to 2020 portrait. gtgamer79 (talk) 01:45, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I disagree and have reverted for now:

As user:PerpetuityGrat said above it doesn't look better than the 2020 portrait, he's not looking at the camera and is half-way through a word, during a speach. It's likely (based on the precedent of his previous 2 PMs) will get an official Priministerial portrait, at some point in the near future. In the mean-time I would argue it's better to stick with the 2020 one. Cakelot1 (talk) 19:43, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Rishi will definitely be getting an official portrait, until then I now agree we should stick with the 2020 one as it will be replaced soon enough anyway. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 19:51, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I will add that the 2018 image, (recently added by Gtgamer79) in my opinion, also isn't a better image. While it is an orifical portrait, taken for this purpose (i.e. He's posed, looking at the camera), making it better than the the 2022 one, it's also from 2018, when Sunak was appointed "Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government". Surely the portrait used in 2020, when Sunak was at the Hight of his power (before becoming PM) and popularity makes more sense. In addition the neutral background and expression, just makes it more aesthetically pleasing, to me. Cakelot1 (talk) 11:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

In response to Gtgamer79's edit summary It is a better image as in higher quality and lighting, it was also his last official image, when he was a Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Minister for Local Government) in 2018. Information on the image and the officiality of it can be found in: https://www.flickr.com/photos/communitiesuk/albums/72157624247644414, I don't think it looks better at all the lighting on the 2020 to my eye is much better. Also why do we care about "last official image, when he was a Parliamentary Under Secretary of State", the 2020 one is the official one used by gov.uk during his chancellorship (see [14]) Cakelot1 (talk) 11:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It makes the most sense to stick with the 2020 photo until the official portrait of Rishi as PM is released, the 2020 photo is also used as the infobox photo on the article Chancellorship of Rishi Sunak for the same reason (it's the official one used by gov.uk during his chancellorship) --92.15.144.174 (talk) 11:42, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

His wife's company in Russia

Information about his wife's business in Russia should be made public 78.106.254.31 (talk) 16:53, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Well it's clearly already public considering you have a source on it. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 16:57, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

That's more relevant to his wife's article rather than here. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 17:04, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure, i mean article here 78.106.254.31 (talk) 17:20, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:ONUS --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 18:11, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Why is this not worthy of inclusion? Obviously this is a conflict of interest and corruption 78.106.254.31 (talk) 18:41, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

You clearly don't know what a WP:COI means. Keep your political opinions to yourself please. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 18:43, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf: knock it off; not warranted here as the user has done literally nothing wrong. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 18:45, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

You must be very stupid if you think that I have political views, or I don't give a damn about British politics. You contradict the neutrality of the presentation. Criticism should also be in the article 78.106.254.31 (talk) 18:46, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

De-escalate please and focus on the discussion. Blaze was in the wrong for assuming your intentions. Please disregard and get back to the crux of the discussion... no more mud slinging. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 18:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf: Sure, you clearly don't know what a Conflict of interest is

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2022 (2)

In the "Resignation" section, it reads, "On 5 July 2022, Sunak resigned as chancellor moments after Sajid Javid resigned as health secretary, amid a controversy surrounding the sexual harassment allegations against Chris Pincher MP", based on that, I request that this sentence in the lead, "He resigned as chancellor in July 2022, followed by Johnson's resignation amid a government crisis." be changed to, "He resigned as chancellor in July 2022, after Sajid Javid resigned as health secretary, followed by Johnson's resignation amid a government crisis.".- Gabbar13 (talk) 02:31, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add links wherever needed.-Gabbar13 (talk) 02:32, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

The Javid detail is included to show that Johnson's fall wasn't started by Sunak (alone). The lead doesn't need to include that amount of detail and the current wording doesn't imply that Johnson's fall was started by Sunak. That's my reading, but others might see ambiguity or worse in the current presentation. EddieHugh (talk) 18:22, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Plus if there was anyone in the government who started Johnson's fall, it was Johnson himself. Javid and Sunak only resigned as a result of the Chris Pincher scandal, which started due to the revelation of Johnson appointing him. So neither Javid or Sunak can be blamed for what happened to Johnson IMO. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 17:36, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

"The Labour leader Keir Starmer said that..."

Do we really need to have dozens of these opposition quotes from Starmer on this article? 92.15.144.174 (talk) 16:42, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Agree, many of these violate WP:NOTTHENEWS and, frankly, have come from a single editor. "Opposition leader opposes" isn't really all that notable, so I might see if I can clear a few out. — Czello 16:51, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for taking action on this! They should all be removed especially since they've come from a single editor and violate WP:NOTTHENEWS. I fully agree with you that the opposition leader criticising the PM is hardly groundbreaking. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 17:33, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, it is his job to criticise, so not news. Equine-man (talk) 17:36, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Completely spot on. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 18:33, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

No, I don't think we need them either. I usually remove them when I see them, but they inevitably get put back. They are generally the stereotypical, opposition for the sake of opposition, type political posturing quotes, which are totally unnecessary in an encyclopaedia. -- DeFacto (talk). 18:49, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Be sure to remove them if they ever get put back again. I agree they are totally unnecessary, this is an article on an encyclopaedia, not Keir Starmer's twitter feed. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 11:52, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Mention of him being the youngest PM worthy of lead inclusion?

It was in the lead on the articles for David Cameron and Tony Blair when they were respectively the youngest PMs in modern history. Rishi has now beaten that record, so is that worthy of lead inclusion? Or is it better elsewhere in the article? 92.15.144.174 (talk) 09:11, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I think it's probably notable enough to be in the lead, yeah. — Czello 09:33, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

No. He's not the youngest PM. He's the youngest since the last one who was younger. It's trivia and not worth including anywhere in the article. EddieHugh (talk) 21:32, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Good point, but could you reply to the discussion below as well? That one warrants further discussion more IMO. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 23:44, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

"With Johnson ally Jacob Rees-Mogg calling him a high tax chancellor"

Do we really need to have this included in the article at all? Has anything happened as a result of his comments? This quote suffers from the same problem as the opposition ones that have since been deleted, so this one should be removed as well. This is an article on an encyclopaedia, not Jacob Rees-Mogg's Twitter feed. 92.15.144.174 (talk) 19:22, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm generally opposed to including 'an opponent said something opposing him/her'. For this one, we could wait until after the next budget statement (17 Nov). If Sunak starts to get a reputation as a high-tax PM, it might become relevant. EddieHugh (talk) 12:34, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Completely agree. Unless Sunak starts to get a reputation as a high-tax PM, we should remove the Mogg quote. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 13:53, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

So... is it going to be removed, or what? --92.15.144.174 (talk) 17:03, 13 November 2022 (UTC)