Talk:Pahlavi dynasty

Move page

Wouldn't it make more since to move the article to the Imperial State of Iran and have the Pahlavi dynasty be a redirect? I mean it really doesn't make too much since to me.--BestOnLifeform (talk) 06:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree that we should have two distinct articles for the House of Pahlavi and Imperial State of Iran. Pahlevun (talk) 21:53, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

untitled

QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA: "Always use a neutral point of view, as Wikipedia is not a place to promote points of view. Write as if the information is a non-judgmental news article."

A major edit was done to this article since there were numerous personal points of views that don't belong to an encyclopedia. This is not a place to write about your personal feelings. This is not a forum either. Instead, it should be a place where only none-judgmental facts are included.

Origin of Name

The word "Pahlavi" was deliberately taken as a pretension to descent from the Arsacid imperial dynasty, also called "Pahlavi" from its reputed origins in the province of Parthia, thus (Parthian = Pahlavi), that had once ruled Iran. This fact needs mentioning. The family name is correctly Mirpanj. Further, evidence must be examined for any pretension to a connection with the Arsacids.

WikiSceptic 09:00, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Sigh, another pro-Khomeini troll on here. Any sources to back up these baseless claims? I think not.

Gamer112(Aus) (talk) 05:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Iran And Germany

Receantly I saw a documentry on Iran stating that Reza Shah was allied with Hitler and not neutral. Shouldn't the article say something about this alliance? Zachorious 09:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I also read in [Legacy of Ashes] by Tim Weiner that anti-British sentiment was very high in Iran before WWII as a result of their oil-based imperialism there, and as a result the Nazis made large inroads there. Perhaps this should be mentioned? MangoJesusSuperstar 17:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Response: There's not much to say regarding Hitler and Iran. The British dominated the west of Iran and made the Qajar shah sign a declaration acknowledging that Britain was a superior country to Iran, who was to be subservient. Meanwhile, the Soviets were establishing an independent communist state in the east of Iran. Reza Pahlavi invaded Tehran with his Cossack brigade and overthrew the Qajars for allowing the British and Soviets to carve up Iran for themselves. As shah, he made modernized Iran and made it independent again. So naturally, when the world was divided between major alliances at war, he chose Germany over siding with Britain and USSR. It made sense in theory, since Germany seemed powerful enough to protect Iran. Unfortunately for Iran, this led to Britain and the USSR invading in 1941 and overthrowing Reza Pahlavi. They installed his son (Mohammad Reza Pahlavi) as a puppet ruler, until the puppet strings were seized by the US during the Mossadegh affair. --WingedEarth (talk) 15:42, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

SAVAK

Shouldn't the connection between SAVAK and the Pahlavi dynasty post WWII be a little more developed? This article, at this point, has a positive POV towards the Pahlavi dynasty. --SeanMcG 22:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the whole article needs to be developed, there is only one source used so far it seems! But I don't agree that there is a positive POV on the matter. -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 22:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pahlavi coat of arms.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Pahlavi COA.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Soraya shah wife.jpg

Image:Soraya shah wife.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Imperial State of Iran?

دولت شاهنشاهی ایران Keshvare Shahanshahi e Iran Imperial State of Iran

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the first word in the arabic script above reads "Daulat/Dawlat" instead of Keshvare? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rad vsovereign (talk • contribs) 18:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. I'll change it.Sir Iain (talk) 10:31, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Human rights in Pahlavi dynasty

Hi,

I have added Human rights in the Pahlavi Dynasty as branch to Human rights in Iran to resolve dispute where Human rights of Iran is being labelled as Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran, which is not correct heading for discussing Pahlavi rights.

Please keep Human rights in the Pahlavi Dynasty as a separate article because it is a node of both Pahlavi Dynasty and Human Rights of Iran.

Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 16:33, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• This shouldn't be merged as long as the outstanding issues or Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran vs. Human rights in Iran]] is not fully addressed. gren グレン 16:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I noted that there seemed to be an emphasis in discussing the final Shah to focus on the clerics and communists among his opponents. Though these groups certainly were very active opponents, there were many who had neither strong religious affiliations nor communist sympathies who wanted him gone because of his corruption and brutality, and his role in denying the nation self-determination. The article also neglects to mention that there was an interregnum similar to that of the Soviet Union, which collapsed because of a similar perception that it was not ready to assert the interests of the nation strongly.

I was interested to note that the Wikipedia article on the revolution also glossed over the interim government as a holdover of the Shah's loyalists. The article on the last Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, is much more accurate, in describing the interim government of Shapour Bakhtiar as a moderate reform government, overcome by more militant extremists, and ultimately by an electorate that resonated to the strength of Khomeini's opposition to the Shah. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RJosephNewton (talk • contribs) 08:11, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Nonsensical picture caption

"Mohammed Reza Pahlavi and his wife Farah Diba, upon him being proclaimed the Shah of Iran."

Mohammed Reza Pahlavi became Shah is about 1943 when his father was deposed. This was about 16 years before he married Farah Diba, who was only born in 1938.Eregli bob (talk) 09:42, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Nationality.

Were they Persian or Mazandarani by direct male line? Who was their earliest known ancestor by that line? СЛУЖБА (talk) 01:09, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

House of Pahlavi

See Talk:House of Pahlavi, discussion on turning the redierct House of Pahlavi into a real article, to cover the period prior to its rise to power, and period after its fall from power. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:56, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Reference to Persia vs. Iran

In the opening of this article, there seems to be an editorial sentiment that "Iran" is less legitimate or less based in historical usage than "Persia." I think that that phrase needs to be excised, as the use of "Iran" (or its older forms) dates back into at least the 1st millenium CE. The debate of "Persia" vs. "Iran" is itself a contentious one, and I think it's better to have no reference at all to the supposed relative legitimacy of one vs. the other. Just state that the name was changed, period. --Sandycash (talk) 12:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism

Someone better fix this...--24.13.239.17 (talk) 22:03, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Cyrus small.JPG Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Currency

• 10 Krans = 1 Toman
• 100 Dinars = 1 Rial
• 100 Rials = 1 Pahlavi (Pahlevi) Böri (talk) 13:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

RfC: former country or royal house?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Should this article use the Template:Infobox Former Country, or Template:Infobox royal house? Binksternet (talk) 23:38, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

• Royal house. The article was created in 2003 as a royal house article (see it in 2004), then in 2008 it was changed into a "former country" infobox by User:R-41. I changed it to royal house two days ago because there is no former country named "Pahlavi dynasty". Instead, the former country was named variously Persia, Iran, or formally "Imperial State of Persia", "Imperial State of Iran". The encyclopedia should certainly have an article about the former country, but it should be placed under the title of Imperial State of Iran, not Pahlavi dynasty. The basic issue here is that Iran was never named "Pahlavi dynasty". We should not mislead the reader. Binksternet (talk) 23:38, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I think the suggested article Imperial State of Iran should cover the period under Qajar rulers, the 1906 Constitution, and the period under Pahlavi rulers. Binksternet (talk) 23:41, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

• Royal house, but article Imperial State of Iran should be recreated as soon as possible - with Former Country template (removed from here), as well as other relevant data, as Binksternet suggested - the period under Qajar rulers, the 1906 Constitution, and the period under Pahlavi rulers (that would cover the period from about 1794 until 1979). Furthermore, I think we should keep Former Country template here until article Imperial State of Iran is recreated. After its done, we will replace Former Country template with Royal house template. --Sundostund (talk) 13:05, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

And, we should also look at the Qajar dynasty article - that article also contains Former Country template, which also should be replaced with Royal house template after Imperial State of Iran is recreated. --Sundostund (talk) 13:09, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• NO to Template:Infobox Former Country: That was a feudal empire [and not a country/nation ^{19:53, 18 June 2014 (UTC)}], and placing Template:Infobox Former Country would be disastrously misleading to Our readers. Someone has to take up the task of adding tons of content to Imperial State of Iran. Sincerely, ← Abstruce 18:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• Royal House, and expand Imperial State of Iran covering pre-Pahlavi dynasties. ^walk victor falk ^talk 18:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

• Royal House, per Binksternet: a nation and its dynasty are connected but not synonymous, and the kind of information that should be reported about one is not all the same information relevant to the other. We have templates that facilitate resolving this difference -- let's use them as intended. FactStraight (talk) 22:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
• Royal House. I have to agree with Sundostund, victor falk, and FactStraight (and not with the melodramatics of Abstruce). This article (like the Qajar dynasty one) is about a dynastic line, while an article on the Imperial State of Iran would cover the nation-state ("country") in question, including its history under multiple relevant dynasties and a constitution.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:24, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• Royal House. It's surely self explanatory? While the Pahlavi Dynasty ruled Iran, and it is certainly an important aspect of the former country, it is not the same thing. Sotakeit (talk) 11:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
• Royal House per Binksternet - Cwobeel (talk) 04:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
• The article title is about a former royal house, but a lot of the text in the article is about a country's history. We should either (A) use the royal house infobox and rewrite part of the article, or (B) move the page to a title which matches its contents, and use the former country infobox. Dental plan / lisa needs braces! 12:54, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge proposal, bringing House of Pahlavi here

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I propose that the article named House of Pahlavi should be turned back into a redirect which points to Pahlavi dynasty. The two terms are synonymous.

The article name 'House of Pahlavi' served as a redirect from 2007 to 2011 when User:TRAJAN 117 made it into an article. I think the content can easily be hosted at Pahlavi dynasty so that the reader is not confused. Binksternet (talk) 06:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. "Pahlavi dynasty" is preferable to "House of Pahlavi" only because it begins with the actual name of the family, "Pahlavi". The merge should happen, however, regardless of which article title is used. FactStraight (talk) 22:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

• Merge. ^walk victor falk ^talk 18:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
• Merge easy call. - Cwobeel (talk) 04:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Infobox link leads to wrong page

The infobox on this page, specifically, the "country" portion, when clicked, directs users to the Iran national football team team page. I checked the infobox myself but I am not exactly sure how to fix it. I believe there was a page before called Imperial State of Iran which was relevant for this article, but I am assuming this page was merged based on prior discussions seen above. If someone could please fix this or let me know how, that would be great. Thanks! Negahbaan (talk) 23:39, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I fixed it. --Sundostund (talk) 00:15, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Imperial State

Hello everyone. I see that Royal house template is put in place, instead of Former Country template. Its fine with me, as you can see above, I supported that move during a now-closed discussion. But, I want to remind all of you who are interested in this to several important issues, which I raised during the earlier discussion:

1) Article Imperial State of Iran should be recreated as soon as possible, encompassing Former Country template (removed from here), and data about Iranian history from about 1794 until 1979: The period under Qajar rulers, the 1906 Constitution, and the period under Pahlavi rulers. I think it is really important that we do this, and finally separate data about the country from data about dynasties.

2) Article Qajar dynasty should be looked into, and treated in the same way as this one - replacing Former Country template with Royal house template.

Sundostund (talk) 00:14, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Why is there no article for Imperial State of Iran containing Former Country template? There is a gap between Qajar dynasty (Sublime State of Persia) and Interim Government of Iran. MSanta  Talk  04:28, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Support creation of an article titled "Imperial State of Iran" for the reasons given, though I would also advise that the article on the Imperial State of Iran be focused on the state itself rather than the Pahlavi dynasty that is the subject of this article. That means having the new article should focus on an appropriately sized description of the monarchy that does not dominate the article as well as material on its government, politics, economy, culture of its citizens, military, and other relevant topics pertaining to the Imperial State of Iran.--184.145.74.119 (talk) 20:56, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Support creation of article - Although I have no opinion on the Qajar dynasty page yet, there seems to be a big gap in Iranian history. Also, people might not know what the official name for Iran at the time was and might call it the Sublime State of Persia (or Iran) or the Interim Government of Iran. Jackninja5 (talk) 08:17, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Copyvio removed

This was all added by an IP in November 2003[1] and I found earlier sources using the Wayback Machine. Note none of it was sourced and the websites used fail WP:RS. More importantly, the sections are meant to be summaries of their main articles but were not, see WP:SUMMARY, so somone should enhance this article from the main articles. The copyvio isn't in the main articles so far as I could tell. Doug Weller (talk) 12:34, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Legacy

The legacy of the Pahlavi regime is far more than just an underlining of the Persian identity. I consider this paragraph as politically motivated and in any case not suitable for an encyclopaedia in terms of style and content given the wider context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.157.216.80 (talk) 04:52, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

A dynasty is not a state

I came to this article by coincidence, and I find it rather confusing. It is obviously an article about the dynasty ruling Iran for more than 50 years, but the first infobox is an "Infobox former country", which would indicate that it was an article about the state during the reign of the dynasty. Looking at earlier discussions in this talk page, we can see that there was an RfC in 2014 with a very clear, in fact unanimous, consensus to use the "Infobox royal house". In a follow-up discussion, there was also a clear consensus to create the article to cover the former country. That article has so far not been made. Despite the consensus, one editor repeatedly reinserted the "former country" infobox until they were indeffed. For some reason their last reinsert, shortly before the indef-block, was never reverted. Since then the article has had this strange double infobox, for state and dynasty. Isn't it time now to get rid of the "former country" infobox that never had any consensus, and also create the missing article "Imperial State of Iran"? --T*U (talk) 19:24, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Continuous Persian Monarchy not Meaningful

The article's preamble uses the phrase "2,500 years of continuous Persian monarchy" but this doesn't seem particularly meaningful. The various states described as Persian Empires had wildly varying borders, cultural, religious, and linguistic makeups and were multiple times ruled by non-Iranians. Even ignoring that, there's a pretty big gap where there was no state widely known as "Persia" or "Iran" between the fall of the Sassanids to the Muslim conquest and the rise of the Safavids.

Ultimately the claim seems either baseless (if applied strictly to states with similar boundaries, with continuity of religious, cultural, and linguistic makeup) or meaningless (if we ignore that, and the big gap under the Abbasids). As far as I can tell this claim originates as Pahlavi propaganda and so violates the impartiality rules but I may be mistaken. Regardless, similar claims can be made about Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Armenia, Ethiopia, and Italy with similar degrees of legitimacy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.31.140 (talk) 17:25, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Not to mention when Iran was conquered by the Mongols or even the mid-forties when Reza was removed and the allies ruled the country and they brought back his son Mohammed later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.175.56 (talk) 14:36, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Use "File:Aidroutes.jpg" for the only infobox map of this article

Pahlavi dynasty is a historic period of Iran between 1925 and 1979. During the Pahlavi dynasty, Soviet Union is to the north of Iran. The map "File:Aidroutes.jpg" shows Iran during the Pahlavi dynasty in World War II. In this map, Soviet Union is to the north of Iran. However, the map "File:Iran (orthographic projection).svg" emphasizes Iran but shows the current countries' borders. Due to the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, in this map, to the north of Iran, instead of the Soviet Union, there are three countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan. By comparison, it is obvious that the map "File:Aidroutes.jpg" is more representative, reasonable and proper for the infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty", so please use the map "File:Aidroutes.jpg" for the only infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty" and never change it. 123.150.182.180 09:03, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

As i said. we use SVG map if available (for this article, File:Iran (orthographic projection).svg) . May be File:Aidroutes.jpg had more information and more correct (or may be not). But in that case, we may just need to request /ask the editor in wiki commons to draw a new map file, instead of replace the infobox with jpg one. Matthew hk (talk) 13:20, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

And may be the SVG was partially wrong, as Russia did not existed at that time. It should shown USSR instead. Matthew hk (talk) 13:26, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

In your opinion, Wikipedia should use SVG map as the infobox map if available. However, in this case, "File:Aidroutes.jpg" is the only representative, reasonable and proper infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty" as I proved. In other words, there is no any SVG map better than the map "File:Aidroutes.jpg" in this case. Thus, we should use the map "File:Aidroutes.jpg" for the only infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty" and never change it. 123.150.182.179 13:56, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there is any change of the border from 1970s Iran to the current Iran. It just the bordering country had changed. In 1970s Iran should bordered USSR directly, and i had post a request of new map in wiki-commons. Matthew hk (talk) 14:00, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

If no one replys to or supports your request of a new map for the article "Pahlavi dynasty" in Wiki-Commons, the map "File:Aidroutes.jpg" should still be used for the only infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty" and never change it. If there is at least one users in Wiki-Commons support your request and make the correct map for the article "Pahlavi dynasty", the new map can be used as the infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty". 123.150.182.177 14:25, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a collaboration project , which in case of no [new] consensus , old consensus or "stable version" applies. Checking old version of the article, they used File:Persia 1921.JPG, so may be that one should be used. Matthew hk (talk) 15:22, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

However, the map "File:Persia 1921.JPG" is inappropriate for the infobox map of the article "Pahlavi dynasty", because 1. in 1921 Iran (then known as "Persia") was ruled by Qajar dynasty (Qajar dynasty existed between 1789 and 1925), but Pahlavi dynasty existed between 1925 and 1979. 2. In this map, to the north of Iran (then known as "Persia"), there are Russia and Turkestan, but during the Pahlavi dynasty, Soviet Union is to the north of Iran. Thus, I still insist my previous comments. 123.150.182.177 16:14, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

First non-Turkic dynasty

Was this the first dynasty that was not Turkic in origin? MythicalAlien (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:13, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Pahlavi dynasty

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Pahlavi dynasty's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Farrokh 03":

• From Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran: Farrokh, Kaveh (2011). Iran at War: 1500–1988. ISBN 978-1-78096-221-4.
• From Iran–Iraq War: Farrokh, Kaveh (20 December 2011). Iran at War: 1500–1988. Oxford: Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1-78096-221-4.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:51, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Split proposal

I propose that sections of this article Pahlavi dynasty be split into a separate page called Pahlavi Iran. As is with the Qajar and Safavid articles, the Pahlavi dynasty is a ruling house. The Pahlavi Iran needs its own article as an actual sovereign state. —174.91.132.224 (talk) 18:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support, but with a different name - I agree with the user above except I think it should be called the Imperial State of Iran, as that was the official name of Iran during the Pahlavi era. --YoungstownToast (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support in principle, dynasty articles are a discrete topic that should be separate to articles on states. This split discussion seems to be a continuation of splits to produce Safavid Iran and Qajar Iran, with an identical split discussion ongoing at Talk:Afsharid dynasty. Whether the state articles should perfectly match in temporal scope various ruling dynasties is a separate question I'm less sure of, but certainly something should be split to somewhere. In regards to this article, the topics are clearly entwined, but it would seem that currently "World War II" is the only section that seems to lack specific focus on the dynasty. For the lead, it's a simple matter of (re)moving the first paragraph and infobox. CMD (talk) 06:07, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support splitting out the "former country" parts of the article (starting with the infobox) and creating a separate article, which I think should be titled "Imperial State of Iran". I actually suggested this in 2017 in the section #A dynasty is not a state above. --T*U (talk) 11:07, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support splitting into country and dynasty articles, with the country article at "Imperial State of Iran". Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:38, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support the splitting, with Qajar Iran and Qajar dynasty as clear examples of what should be done. —Sundostund (talk) 05:42, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support The dynasty should be distinguished from state. Keivan.f^Talk 19:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support As all users supprted the split, I am splitting the article. Syed Aashir (talk) 11:25, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

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British part in the creation of the Pahlavi dynasty

An anonymous editor excised from the lede the references to the British role in the creation of the dynasty. I have reverted the edit. It is well sourced, for example this book:

• Cyrus Ghani; Sīrūs Ghanī (6 January 2001). Iran and the Rise of the Reza Shah: From Qajar Collapse to Pahlavi Power. I.B.Tauris. ISBN 978-1-86064-629-4. The post-World War I period began with a triumvirate of Iranian political grandees, encouraged by the British government, attempting to shoe-horn Iran into the British Empire. This was followed by a bizarre coup d'état, engineered by a British general, which brought to power the Reza Shah Pahlavi who ended 130 years of Qajar rule.

Is there another side to the story we are missing? Onceinawhile (talk) 10:37, 28 July 2022 (UTC)