Talk:Menachem Begin

Military service

Begin never served with Israel, rather with the pre-Israel zionist Irgun. The use of the Israeli flag by his military service is inaccurate, and should be replaced with the Irgun logo Helpfulguy101 (talk) 17:33, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 July 2023

The following quote in the first paragraph should be deleted stating that: Begin was also noted as "leader of the notorious terrorist organisation" by British government and banned from entering the United Kingdom.[3]"

The quote doesn't fit in with the part of the introduction where it is placed and is also mentioned later on in the article during the Herut Opposition Years section. He was considered a terrorist by the British for his actions against the British mandate, but he could equivalently be viewed as a revolutionary hero. Moreover, Begin's later actions as a statesman and prime minister may overshadow his actions as an anti-British militant.

There is more nuance here then that quote shows, and placing it so prominently in the beginning of the article biases the portrayal of Begin. The quote should be deleted from the first paragraph and left for later in the article. Noamthinks (talk) 14:33, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I think that it is WP:DUE, but I honestly have no idea. Wait for someone with more experience in NPOV. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 17:37, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I also think it's due. The NPOV may be in the same source (Haaretz):

The 34-page file released by the National Archives documents two of Begin's attempts to obtain a visa to Britain. The first, between 1953 and 1955, was rebuffed contemptuously. The second, after Begin had served as a minister in Levi Eshkol and Golda Meir's governments for three years, succeeded in 1972, five years before he became prime minister. [...] after Begin had already served as a minister, he would visit British Ambassador Ernest John Ward Barnes at his Ramat Gan residence. Barnes wired to London that Begin was talking about Britain "in terms of friendship and admiration." He said times had changed and urged the government to allow Begin to visit the country. [...] In 1971, this argument worked. In 1972, almost 25 years after the British Mandate had ended, the British grew tired of the battle and granted Begin his coveted visa.

So I propose FROM: Later, the Irgun fought the Arabs during the 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and its chief Begin was also noted as "leader of the notorious terrorist organisation" by the British government and banned from entering the United Kingdom.

TO: Later, the Irgun fought the Arabs during the 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and, as its chief, Begin was described by the British government as the "leader of the notorious terrorist organisation" and declined an entry visa to the United Kingdom between 1953 and 1955. However, Begin's overtures of friendship eventually paid off and he was granted a visa in 1972, five years prior to becoming prime minister.

I'll let this request sit open a bit to draw more attention. Please continue to discuss. Xan747 (talk) 23:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I concur. The additional context would be an improvement and help the flow. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:40, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thirded per the above. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 10:45, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Xan747 (talk) 12:14, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

minor edit

dates for PM in intro

overtures to right wing american evangelicals

this book https://fivebooks.com/book/road-armageddon-how-evangelicals-became-israels-best-friend-by-timothy-p-weber/ has a history of American evangelicals and their relation to Israel; it details how Begin and other Israeli leaders made great efforts to be friends to people like Jerry Falwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell who might well be considered to be ultra right wing here in the US