Talk:Italo-Ethiopian War of 1887–1889

Name of article

@Srnec: The common name of this war is the "Eritrea War" and you can even see the war in the articles of all other languages are using this name. The section about the name is about "alternative names" in the context of its relation to the First (and Second) Italo-Ethiopian Wars, but the common name of this war is the "Eritrea War". All mentions of Battle of Dogali, if you google, have it as a battle in the "Eritrea(n) War" --Havsjö (talk) 21:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Can you provide a link? I don't see this at all. I see barely any mentions of the term "Eritrea(n) War" that do not refer to the Eritrean War of Independence or the Ethiopian–Eritrean War. All the sources cited call it the Italo-Ethiopian War (if they call it anything at all), either the first, of 1887 or of 1887–89. They do not combine the war against Italy with the war against the Mahdists. Srnec (talk) 23:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Well, you can already see the term in all the other language wiki of this war articles yourself, [1][2][3][4][5][6] ctrl+f "eritrea war" on the next link [7] Here are some contemporary illustrations referring to the Eritrea War, even if the article titles isnt to change its title because of this, I cant see how this name shouldnt be mentioned at all. "This conflict is in Italian historiography/sometimes know as the "Eritrea War". or that Eritrea War and Eritrean War at least redirect here instead of to "List of wars involving Eritrea"(??). This is like completely scrubbing the term "Continuation War" and changing it to "Soviet-Finnish War 1941-1944" without even mentioning the name at all. --Havsjö (talk) 07:02, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Well, I don't know where Getty Images gets their information, but that is not what the war is called in English scholarship. And other Wikis are not reliable sources. Frankly, I can find barely any Italian sources that use guerra d'Eritrea and almost all that do are not worth citing in this article. But I have added something on the Italian historiography to clarify. The original term in Italian in 1888 was guerra d'Africa. Srnec (talk) 23:42, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

User:Havsjö, User: DavideVeloria88, User:Frederick Herman Anderson...You have made a number of points in various talk pages about this article, I am re-uniting everything here because i cannot answer to you on three different talk pages.

One of you originally created this article some months ago with the name "Eritrean War" but back then it had a different scope: it covered the Italian expansion in Eritrea. Right now it's limited to the 2 years period of fights in Eritrea between Italians and Ethiopians from 1887 to 1889. So first of all you should have this in mind when talking about this article, because it now covers something different: It's not the conquest of Eritrea starting before 1887 and continuing after 1889. It's about the Italo-Ethiopian fights that led to the friendship Treaty of Uccialli.

Secondly, I doubt that these skirmishes and ambushes should have their own article (most sources don't call this an Italo-Ethiopian War, nor Uccialli is considered a peace treaty) and I also oppose calling it the "War of Eritrea". This sequence of events is usually treated as a part of the events of the Italian colonization of Eritrea or (more often) treated as the antecedent events of the actual First Italo-Ethiopian war (1894-1896).

So you should first decide what do you want to do with this article and what scope you want to apply to it, because to me your proposals are not clear. Barjimoa (talk) 13:50, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I previously said in Talk:First Italo-Ethiopian War that, as this being the real first war between Italy and Ethiopia, the title "First Italo-Ethiopian War" in that page would not make much sense. I think that it can be changed in "Italo-Ethiopian War of 1894-96" or "Abyssinian War". This was the only proposal I've ever done before. DavideVeloria88 (talk) 17:18, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I doubt that this one is considered in English/Italian/Ethiopian historiography the first "real war" between them. Most of the time you read about this conflict, it doesn't even have an all-encompassing name. We are mostly talking about skirmishes and ambushes. No formal declaration of war and no official peace treaty. Also, by that reasoning, we would then change the name of the Second Italo-Ethiopian to Third Italo-Ethiopian war...but we rely on sources. And the sources overwhelmingly call the 94-96 one "First Italo-Ethiopian war" and call the '35 one the "Second Italo-Ethiopian war". Barjimoa (talk) 17:23, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

What Barjimoa said --Havsjö (talk) 18:56, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

The third and fourth paragraphs of the lead deal with this. It was called a war (guerra) at the time, so I don't see what the issue is. Srnec (talk) 22:24, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Casualties

@Srnec: why do you keep removing my edits? It’s very obvious that the Ethiopians lost minimum 700 soldiers at the Battle of Dogali. If the maximum casualties for the Italians are used then why not the Ethiopians 2001:56A:72E2:F200:B49A:E63E:6C98:9704 (talk) 23:29, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Only one sources presents overall casualties estimates. Those are presented in the infobox. Putting 1000+ for the Ethiopians contradicts the same source used for the 1000+ for the Italians. Srnec (talk) 23:50, 28 July 2022 (UTC)