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Talk:Historical urban community sizes/Archive 1

< Talk:Historical urban community sizes
Latest comment: 6 years ago by Klbrain in topic Proposed merge with List of largest cities throughout history

Initial talk

Latest comment: 16 years ago6 comments6 people in discussion

There is an article you guys might interesting; take a look - Largest Cities Through History --Kerry7374 03:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes Please merge them, the other article is too short. Oidia 22:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

As usual, Eastern Europe seems not to exist before 1600. In the meantime, the latest edition of the Britannica puts the population of medieval Sarai (city) at 600,000. Smolensk was the largest city in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania when Lithuania was the largest state in Europe. Previously, the article estimated its medieval population at 200,000 but it has since been removed. Ditto for Kiev, which counted some 400 churches before 1200. --Ghirla -трёп- 11:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The popluation for NY in the last chart is for the state, not the city. I think that may be the case for the other numbers for it. --Conquistador48

I have been told repeatedly that Edo was the largest city in the world from roughly 1650 on, for at least a century. I'm still trying to find sources to back me up on this, but I trust my professors on this... weird that Edo isn't even mentioned at all on the other page. LordAmeth 08:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Most of the data in this article are actually from Chandler's book revised in 1987, but the references are not united. Modelski's new book also provides other information on population of cities over 10,000 (till 1000 B.C.), or over 100,000 (till A.D. 1000).125.198.53.61 14:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

The population estimates which appear in“The Making of Urban Europe 1000-1950” are actually borrowed from Chandler and Fox (1974). These should be substituted by the data from Chanler's 1987 revised book.

I have recently revised "List of largest cities throughout history," and I'm now planning to update this article citing data from G. Modelski (2003), T. Chandler (1987; till 1975), P. Bairoch (1988, only for Europe 800-1850), United Nations Urbanization Prospects (only after 1950), and some from Demographia, B. R. Mitchell, or V. Shower's books (only after 1750 or 1800). But the list I've made is already too vast... (Even list of top 10 cities consists of 200 or more cities.)61.203.20.254 16:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge removal

Latest comment: 16 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Someone suggested that we should merge this article with List of largest cities throughout history. But since no one has said anything since then, I'd say that the articles should not be merged. I have also removed the template. Oidia (talk) 01:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

it's the exact same scope. See WP:CFORK. They should be merged. If this has remained unaddressed, this just means nobody could be bothered so far, not that it shouldn't be done. dab (𒁳) 13:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Well somebody do it then, it's been around for so long. Oidia (talk) 13:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Paris in the middle ages

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

1250 / 80 000 isn't it a low number. Consider please : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris Isidoros47 (talk) 13:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

NYC stats wildly inaccurate

Latest comment: 15 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Possible confusion betwen NYC and NY State? --135.196.27.80 (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

That certainly seems to be the case. Well, either that, or it's counting the greater metropolitan area. In any case, the Wikipedia article for the City claims a current population of roughly 8.2 million. I'm going to go stick that number into the chart. We need a reliable, citable source for the city's population in 1950 and 2000. LordAmeth (talk) 01:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
The number was likely referring to the metropolitan area (which, coincidentally, it about the same at the state population). It should be decided whether the populations for the 20th century should be for the city proper or the metropolitan area. As of right now, Los Angeles is shown to have a larger population than New York, which really isn't appropriate due to the fact that the metro population of Los Angeles is shown, but New York's is not. Melancholia i (talk) 18:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to update this article showing different estimates

Latest comment: 8 years ago10 comments3 people in discussion

It is quite useful to present different estimates based upon multiple sourses. For the population estimates of ancient Rome, there exists a conflict between "Great Rome" and "Little Rome" theorists.

I am planning to update this article using population estimates by Tertius Chandler, George Modelski, Paul Bairoch, Brian Mitchell and UN. I have summarized estimates and censuses concerning European cities here.Aurichalcum (talk) 02:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Here is my summarized table for cities in Africa and the World:

I have added some data for the world cities before 1000 B.C.Aurichalcum (talk) 18:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm creating a visualization of the population of all cites in the word from the dawn of human history to present. The spanning vertical cells below would have been VERY annoying. Could we just repeat the name of the location for each city? This will also preserve the ability to sort.
--futurebird (talk) 17:31, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Before 3000 B.C.

City or Urban Location Ref −7000 −6500 −6000 −4000 −3700 −3500 −3300 −3000
Abydos Egypt Ch (−3200)
20,000
Memphis Ch (−3100)
20,000		 30,000
Nekhen (Hierakonpolis) Mo (−3400)
5,000–
10,000
Anshan Iran Mo 10,000 10,000
Al-Hayyad (Larak)[1] Iraq Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000
Bad-tibira Mo <10,000
Eridu Mo 4,000 6,000–
10,000		 10,000 10,000 10,000
Nippur Mo 10,000
Shuruppak Mo <10,000
Sippar Mo <10,000
Suheri[2] Mo 10,000
Uruk Mo 14,000 40,000 40,000
'Ain Ghazal Jordan [3] (−7300 to
−6500)
405–1,323		 (−6500 to
−6000)
900–2,940		 (−6000 to
−5500)
1,080–3,528
Basta[4] [3] (−6500 to −5500)
1,260–4,116
Habuba-Kabira[5] Syria Mo (−3100)
6,000–8,000
Nagar (Tell Brak) Mo 20,000
Tell Abu Hureyra [6] (−7400 to −6150)
5,000–6,000
Çatalhöyük Turkey Mo 5,000–
10,000
[7] (−7250 to −6250)
1,500–2,000
Dobrovody Ukraine Mo (−3800 to
−3700)
<10,000
Maydanets Mo (−3600 to
−3500)
<10,000
[8] 8,000
Talianki Mo (−3600 to
−3500)
<10,000
[8] 14,000
Jericho West Bank Mo 1,000–2,000
[3] (−8300 to −6500)
225–735

Aurichalcum (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

2999 to 2000 B.C.

City or Urban Location Ref −2800 −2500 −2400 −2300 −2250 −2200 −2100 −2000
Mundigak[9] Afghanistan Mo 10,000
Qal'at al-Bahrain (Dilmun) Bahrain Mo >10,000 >10,000 >10,000
Heliopolis Egypt Mo 10,000 10,000
Ch 20,000–
30,000		 20,000–
25,000
Herakleopolis Magna Ch 20,000–
30,000
Memphis Mo 30,000 30,000 30,000 30,000
Ch >30,000 60,000
Thebes Ch 25,000–
60,000
Dholavira India Mo 15,000 15,000 10,000 10,000
Rakhigarhi Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Anshan Iran Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Shahr-i Sokhta Mo 20,000 20,000 10,000
Susa Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 25,000
Ch 25,000
Adab Iraq Mo 10,000 20,000 10,000 10,000 30,000 10,000 10,000
Akkad[10] Mo 30,000
Ch >30,000
Akshak[11] Mo 10,000 20,000
Assur Ch 20,000–
30,000		 20,000–
25,000
Isin Mo 40,000
Kesh Mo 40,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Kish Mo 30,000 20,000
Lagash[12] Mo 60,000 30,000
Larsa Mo 16,000 10,000 40,000
Ngirsu[12] Mo 40,000 80,000 50,000 80,000 40,000
Ch (−2075)
50,000		 25,000–
60,000
Nina[13] Mo 10,000 10,000
Nippur Mo 10,000 20,000 20,000 30,000 30,000 30,000 30,000
Ch 30,000 20,000–
25,000
Shuruppak Mo 30,000 30,000 10,000
Suheri Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Tell Taya Mo 15,000
Umma Mo 20,000 40,000 40,000 40,000 10,000 20,000 25,000
Ur Mo 12,000 10,000 10,000 20,000 40,000 100,000 20,000
Ch 65,000
Uruk Mo 80,000 40,000 30,000 30,000 30,000 30,000
Ch 20,000–
30,000
Zabala Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Ganeriwala Pakistan Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Harappa Mo 15,000 20,000 20,000 20,000 15,000 10,000
Mohenjo-daro Mo 20,000 40,000 40,000 40,000 20,000 10,000
Ebla Syria Mo 30,000 30,000 30,000
Ch 30,000
Mari Mo 10,000 50,000 50,000 50,000 >10,000 30,000 30,000
Ch 20,000–
25,000
Nagar (Tell Brak) Mo 20,000 15,000 10,000 10,000
Tell Chuera (Talhayum) Mo 20,000 20,000
Tell Leilan (Shekhna) Mo 10,000–
20,000		 10,000
Titris Hoyuk[14] Mo 10,000 10,000
Urkesh (Tell Mozan) Mo 10,000 30,000 30,000 20,000
Namazgadepe Turkmenistan Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000

1999 to 1000 B.C.

City or Urban Location Ref −1900 −1800 −1700 −1600 −1500 −1400 −1360 −1300 −1200 −1100 −1000
Mundigak Afghanistan Mo 10,000 10,000
Qal'at al-Bahrain (Dilmun) Bahrain Mo 10,000
Chengzhou (Luoyang) China Mo >10,000
Ch 50,000
Erlitou Mo 40,000 >10,000
Haoqing (Xi'an)[15] Mo 100,000
Ch >50,000
Huangbei Shang City (Xiang)[16] Mo >10,000
Qiyi (Qishan)[17] Mo >10,000 >10,000
Sanxingdui Mo >10,000 >10,000 >10,000 35,000
Shangqiu (Kweiteh) Mo >10,000 >10,000 >10,000 60,000 >10,000 >10,000
Ch 20,000–
25,000
Yanshi Shang City (Bo)[18] Mo 24,000 >10,000
Yinxu (Anyang) Mo >10,000 120,000 120,000
Ch 30,000
Zhengzhou Shang City (Ao) Mo 32,000 >10,000 >10,000
Ch 32,000 20,000–
24,000
Kition Cyprus Mo 30,000 30,000
Amarna Egypt Ch 30,000
Avaris[19] Mo 20,000 20,000 50,000–
100,000
Ch (−1650)
100,000		 100,000
Bubastis Mo >10,000
Elephantine Mo 16,000 16,000 16,000
Heliopolis Mo >10,000 >10,000 30,000 30,000 30,000 20,000 20,000
Ch >25,000 30,000 20,000–
24,000		 20,000–
25,000
Herakleopolis Magna Ch 20,000–
25,000
Hermopolis Mo 30,000 30,000 >10,000 >10,000
Lycopolis (Asyut) Ch 20,000–
25,000
Memphis Mo >10,000 30,000 >10,000 >10,000 >10,000 >10,000 >10,000 75,000 100,000 10,000
Ch >25,000 20,000–
24,000		 32,000 50,000 25,000–
50,000
Nekhen (Hierakonpolis) Ch 20,000–
24,000
Pi-Ramesses[19] Mo >10,000 >10,000 >10,000 160,000 120,000
Tanis Mo 35,000
Ch 20,000–
24,000
Thebes Mo >10,000 >10,000 10,000–
20,000		 60,000 80,000 80,000 150,000 100,000 120,000
Ch >25,000 (−1375)
100,000		 80,000 30,000–
40,000		 (−1184)
120,000		 >50,000
Akrotiri[20] Greece Mo 20,000
Argos Mo >10,000
Ch 24,000 24,000
Gortyn Ch 20,000–
24,000
Knossos Mo >10,000 15,000 15,000 50,000 >10,000
Ch 20,000–
24,000		 30,000
Mycenae Mo >10,000 30,000
Ch 30,000 30,000
Pylos Mo 10,000
Ayodhya India Ch 24,000–
30,000
Hastinapur Ch 25,000–
50,000
Anshan Iran Mo 10,000
Chogha Zanbil (Dur-Untash-Napirisha) Mo 10,000
Susa Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 20,000
Ch 25,000 25,000 25,000–
30,000		 30,000 25,000
Adab Iraq Mo 10,000 10,000
Assur Mo 10,000 15,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 15,000 20,000 12,000 12,000
Babylon Mo 60,000 60,000 >10,000 >10,000 75,000 75,000 100,000
Ch 60,000 25,000–
50,000
Bad-tibira Mo 10,000
Dur-Kurigalzu Mo 40,000 20,000
Ch 40,000 40,000
Eshnunna Mo 10,000
Isin Mo 40,000 20,000 40,000
Ch >25,000
Larsa Mo 40,000 40,000
Mashkan-Shapir[21] Mo 10,000 15,000
Ngirsu Mo >10,000
Nina Mo 10,000
Nineveh Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Ch 20,000–
24,000		 25,000–
30,000		 30,000–
40,000		 20,000–
25,000
Nippur Mo 20,000 20,000 20,000 30,000 20,000
Opis (Ctesiphon)[22] Ch 25,000–
30,000
Umma Mo 40,000
Ur Mo 10,000
Uruk Mo 30,000 30,000 30,000
Ch 25,000 24,000–
30,000		 20,000–
25,000
Zabala Mo 10,000 10,000
Jerusalem Israel Ch 25,000–
50,000
Tel Hazor Mo 16,000 >10,000 20,000
Ch 24,000 24,000
Tyre Lebanon Mo 10,000
Wanggeom-seong (Pyongyang) North Korea Ch 25,000
Mohenjo-daro Pakistan Ch 20,000
Zambujal[23] Portugal Ch 25,000–
60,000
Córdoba[24] Spain Ch 20,000–
24,000		 25,000–
30,000
Seville[24] Ch 20,000–
24,000
Kerma Sudan Ch 20,000–
25,000		 20,000–
24,000
Aleppo Syria Mo 10,000 10,000
Damascus (Aram) Mo >10,000
Dura-Europos Ch 20,000–
24,000
Ebla Mo 10,000 10,000 10,000
Mari Mo 30,000 60,000
Ch >25,000
Qatna Mo 20,000 20,000 20,000 >10,000 >10,000 >10,000
Tell Leilan (Shubat-Enlil) Mo 10,000
Ugarit Mo >10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Ch 24,000
Washukanni[25] Mo 20,000
Ch 20,000–
24,000
Carchemish Turkey Mo 10,000 20,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 >10,000
Hattusa Mo 30,000 >10,000 >10,000 60,000 60,000
Ch 25,000–
60,000		 45,000 48,000
Sapinuwa Mo 75,000 60,000
Troy Mo 10,000
Jarkutan[26] Uzbekistan Mo 20,000 20,000
Sheba[27] Yemen Ch 20,000–
25,000

Aurichalcum (talk) 18:46, 21 October 2009 (UTC) Aurichalcum (talk) 19:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

References and Notes

  1. ^ Site 1306 located 13 km northeast of Adab. Identified as Larak (not same with Larsa) according to Modelski.
  2. ^ Site 242 located 20 km north of Uruk.
  3. ^ a b c Kuijt, I. People and Space in Early Agricultural Villages: Exploring Daily Lives, Community Size, and Architecture in the Late Pre-Pottery Neolithic, J. Anth. Arch. 19 (1), 75–102 (2000).
  4. ^ Located 25 km south of Petra.
  5. ^ Located on the west bank of Buhayrat al Asad, 30 km west of Tabaqah Dam.
  6. ^ Moore, A. M. T.; Hillman, G. C.; Legge, A. J. Village on the Euphrates: from Foraging to Farming at Abu Hureyra, Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press, 2000, pp. 273–275.
  7. ^ Cressford, C. Estimating the Neolithic Population of Çatalhöyük, In Hodder, I. Ed., Inhabiting Çatalhöyük: Reports from the 1995-99 Seasons (Çatalhöyük Research Project), Cambridge, UK: McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, 2005, pp. 323–326.
  8. ^ a b Kruts, S. I. Paleoantropologia Severnogo Prichernomorya epokhi rannego metalla (Paleoanthropology of the North Pontic Region in the Period of Early Metal), In Pitskhelauri, K. N., and Chernykh, E. N. Eds., Kavkaz v sisteme paleometallicheskikh kultur Evrazii, Metsniereba, Tbilisi, 1989, pp. 146–156.
  9. ^ Loacted 55 km northwest of Kandahar.
  10. ^ Capital of Akkadian Empire. Location uncertain.
  11. ^ Location uncertain but believed to have been located in the Diyala River valley near Eshnunna.
  12. ^ a b Ngirsu (Tell Telloh) is located 25 km northwest of Lagash (Tell al-Hiba). Chandler estimated population of Ngirsu by the name of Lagash.
  13. ^ Located 10 km east-southeast of Lagash.
  14. ^ Located 45 km north of Şanlıurfa.
  15. ^ Haoqing is located 15 km southwest of Chang'an, the later capital of Sui and Tang Dynasties, as well as the modern center of Xi'an. Han capital of Chang'an is located 5 km northwest of the center of modern Xi'an; on the south bank of Wei River just opposite to the Qin capital of Xianyang on the south bank. All these sites except for Xianyang are now within the sub-provincial city of Xi'an.
  16. ^ Located on the north bank of the Huang River (not same with Huang He but a tributary of the Zhang River, running through Anyang) just opposite to Yinxu on the south bank. Identified as Xiang (one of the later capitals of Shang Dynasty) according to Modelski.
  17. ^ Located in the present Qishan County. One of the earlier capitals of Zhou Dynasty.
  18. ^ Located 5 km east of Erlitou. Identified as Bo (one of the earlier capitals of Shang Dynasty) according to Modelski.
  19. ^ a b The palace of Ramesses (Qantir) was founded 2 km NE of Avaris (Tell el-Dab'a).
  20. ^ Recent researches put Minoan eruption more than a century earlier.
  21. ^ Located 35 km north of Nippur.
  22. ^ Seleucia was founded on the west bank of the Tigris River, just opposite to Opis (later Ctesiphon) on the east bank.
  23. ^ Fortified town of the Chalcolithic culture of Vila Nova de São Pedro. Chandler estimated population by the name of Setúbal.
  24. ^ a b Chandler listed both Córdoba and Seville as prehistorical cities with more than 20 thousand inhabitants, though actual archaeological sites (maybe Llanete de los Moros in Montoro and Carmona) were not indicated in his book. Maybe he used these place-names for representing virtual central cities of Atalaia culture and Tartessos.
  25. ^ Location uncertain, but probably at Tell el Fakhariya.
  26. ^ Located 60 km north of Termez.
  27. ^ Location uncertain.

Aurichalcum (talk) 18:52, 21 October 2009 (UTC)Aurichalcum (talk) 18:42, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

After 1000 B.C. (still only for Africa)

city or urban location ref −900 −800 −700 −650 −600 −500 −430 −400 −300 −200 −100 1
Alexandria Egypt Mo 300,000 600,000 1,000,000 400,000
Ch (−320)>300,000 300,000 (−60)325,000
Heliopolis Ch 20,–25,000
Memphis Mo 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000
Ch 36,–50,000 60,–70,000 (−550)100,000 100,000 60,–70,000
Sais Ch (−719)48,000 48,000
Thebes Mo 100,000 100,000 100,000
Ch >50,000
Carthage Tunisia Mo 100,000 100,000 200,000 500,000 200,000
Ch 50,000 (−340)100,000 (−310)240,000 150,000 (−146)150,000
city or urban location ref 100 200 300 361 400 500 600 622 700 800 900 1000
Caesarea Iol Algeria Mo 100,000 110,000 100,000
Alexandria Egypt Mo 500,000 600,000 500,000 200,000 200,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000
Ch 250,000 (250)163,000 125,000 100,000 94,000 (730)90,000 95,000 175,000
Fustat/Cairo Mo 100,000 100,000 150,000 200,000
Ch 100,000 150,000 135,000
Memphis Ch 45,–50,000
Tinnis Mo 100,000
Ch 20,–40,000 83,000
Fes Morocco Ch (808)15,000 30,000
Carthage Tunisia Mo 250,000 300,000 300,000 270,000
Ch 100,000 66,000 (439)66,000 100,000 50,000
Kairouan Mo 100,000
Ch (670)10,000 80,000 100,000 80,000
city or urban location ref 1100 1150 1200 1250 1300 1350 1400 1450 1500 1550 1575
Alexandria Egypt Ch 40,000 50,000 55,000 65,000 60,000 40,000 35,000
Cairo Ch 150,000 175,000 200,000 300,000 400,000 350,000 360,000 380,000 400,000 360,000 275,000
Tinnis Ch 110,000 125,000 ('93)125,000
Fes Morocco Ch 125,000 160,000 200,000 200,000 150,000 125,000 125,000 125,000 130,000 100,000 100,000
Marrakech Ch 150,000 150,000 150,000 125,000 75,000 50,000 50,000 50,000 50,000 75,000 100,000
Kairouan Tunisia Ch (1052)48,000 20,–40,000
city or urban location ref 1600 1650 1675 1700 1750 1775 1800 1825 1850 1860 1870
Alexandria Egypt Ch ('93)15,000 ('98)4,000 ('28)13,000 138,000 ('62)164,000
Mi 15,000 60,000 164,000 212,000
Cairo Ch 200,000 175,000 175,000 175,000 175,000 215,000 186,000 250,000 256,000 ('72)350,000
Mi 211,000 ('30)268,000 267,000 295,000 325,000
Fes Morocco Ch 100,000 70,000 80,000 60,000 40,000 ('40)88,000 85,000
Mi 88,000
Marrakech Ch 125,000 125,000 ('90)25,000 25,000 30,000 25,000 30,000 ('34)50,000 50,000 ('64)40,–50,000
Mi 30,000
Lagos Nigeria Mi 29,000 32,000
city or urban location ref 1875 1880 1890 1900 1910 1914 1920 1925 1930 1936 1940
Alexandria Egypt Ch 212,000 314,000 540,000
Mi ('82)231,000 ('97)320,000 ('07)352,000 445,000 570,000 682,000
Cairo Ch 355,000 595,000 735,000 1,000,000 1,315,000
Mi ('82)375,000 467,000 ('97)570,000 ('07)654,000 791,000 1,060,000 1,307,000
Fes Morocco Ch 96,000
Mi 145,000 71,000 108,000 144,000
Marrakech Ch ('85)55,000 120,000
Mi 50,000 60,000 140,000 193,000 190,000
Lagos Nigeria Ch 38,000
Mi 42,000 73,000 126,000 167,000
city or urban location ref 1950 1955 1960 1965 1970 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000
Alexandria Egypt Ch 1,100,000 2,250,000 2,800,000
UN 1,037,000 1,249,000 1,504,000 1,752,000 1,987,000 2,241,000 2,519,000 2,826,000 3,063,000 3,277,000 3,600,000
Mi ('47)919,000 1,516,000 ('66)1,801,000 ('83)2,705,000 3,431,000 ('98)3,328,000
Cairo Ch 2,750,000 ('62)4,000,000 6,610,000 8,400,000
UN 2,494,000 3,029,000 3,680,000 4,738,000 5,585,000 6,450,000 7,349,000 8,328,000 9,061,000 9,707,000 10,534,000
Mi ('47)2,091,000 3,349,000 ('66)4,220,000 ('83)5,875,000 6,452,000 ('98)6,789,000
Fes Morocco Ch ('47)200,000
UN 165,000 215,000 280,000 322,000 369,000 433,000 510,000 594,000 685,000 785,000 870,000
Mi 179,000 216,000 321,000 562,000 ('93)564,000
Marrakech Ch 224,000
UN 209,000 225,000 243,000 280,000 323,000 367,000 416,000 485,000 578,000 681,000 755,000
Mi 215,000 243,000 330,000 549,000 ('93)602,000
Lagos Nigeria Ch 247,000 1,060,000
UN 305,000 468,000 762,000 1,135,000 1,414,000 1,890,000 2,572,000 3,500,000 4,764,000 5,966,000 7,233,000
Mi ('52)267,000 ('63)665,000 901,000 1,061,000 ('92)1,347,000 1,484,000

Aurichalcum (talk) 16:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Abbreviations for references: Ba: Bairoch (1988), Ch: Chandler (1987), Mi: Mitchell (2003), Mo: Modelski (2003), UN: UN World Urbanization Prospects (2007)Aurichalcum (talk) 16:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC) Aurichalcum (talk) 17:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we should limit the entries of cities in this article. The biggest top five cities at selected periods according to Chandler's and Modleski's books are as follows:

  • Austria: Vienna
  • Cambodia: Angkor
  • China: Anyi, Ao, Beijing, Bo, Chang'an/Xi'an, Erlitou, Guangzhou, Handan, Hangzhou, Haoqing, Kaifeng, Linzi, Luoyang, Nanjing, Qufu, Shang/Shangqiu, Shanghai, Shangxingdui, Tanis, Xiatu, Xintian, Yinxu
  • Cyprus: Kition
  • Egypt: Abydos, Alexandira, Avaris/P-Ramses, Elephantine, Fustat/Cairo, Heliopolis, Memphis, Thebes
  • France: Paris
  • Germay: Berlin
  • Greece: Akrotiri, Athens, Knossos
  • India: Agra, Delhi, Kalyan, Kanauji, Mohenjo-daro, Pataliputra/Patna, Rajagriha, Vijayanagar
  • Iran: Anshan, Ecbatana, Rayy/Tehran, Susa, Tabriz
  • Iraq: Adab, Akkad, Al Kufah, Antioch, Babylon, Baghdad, Basrah, Calah, Dur-Kurigalzu, Eridu, Isin, Girsu, Kesh, Kish, Lagash, Larak, Larsa, Nineveh, Nippur, Seleucia/Ctesiphon, Shuruppak, Suheri, Umma, Ur, Uruk
  • Italy: Agragas, Capua, Rome, Syracuse
  • Israel: Hazor, Jerusalem
  • Japan: Edo/Tokyo, Kamakura, Kyoto, Osaka
  • Mexico: Tenochtitlan/Mexico City
  • Morocco: Fez, Marrakech
  • Myanmar: Pagan
  • Portugal: Setubal
  • Russia: Moscow
  • Spain: Cordova
  • Syria: Damascus, Ebla, Mari, Nagar, Qatna, Ugarit, Urkesh
  • Thailand: Ayutthaya
  • Tunisia: Carthage
  • Turkey: Carchemish, Constantinople/Istanbul, Hattusah, Pergamum, Sapinuwa
  • Turkmenistan: Merv
  • Ukraine: Gelonus
  • United Kingdom: London
  • United States: Chicago, New York

Archaeological sites mentioned in Modelski's book are Catalhoyuk in Turkey, Jericho in Palestine, and Dobrovody, Maydanets and Talianki in Ukraine.

Other cities already listed in this article but below top 5 are:

  • 'Ain Ghazal: Maybe top (not cited in Chandler and Modelski)
  • Anuradhapura: 6th according to both Chandler and Modelski
  • Teotihuacna: 6th according to Chandler, 9th according to Modelski
  • Purusapura (Peshawar): 7th according to Chandler, 11th according to Modelski
  • Buenos Aires: 7th according to Chandler
  • Naples: 7th according to Chandler
  • Saint Petersburg: 7th according to Chandler, 8th according to Modelski
  • Sao Paulo: 7th according to Chandler
  • Harappa: 8th according to Modelski
  • Los Angeles: 8th according to Chandler
  • Shakhr-i Sokhta: 9th according to Modelski
  • Xianyang: 9th according to Modelski
  • Venice: 9th according to Chandler, 11th according to Modelski
  • Milan: 10th according to Modelski, 21th according to Chandler
  • Amsterdam: 11th according to Chandler

If entries are expanded to top ten cities, nearly 100 cities shall be added.

The followings cities are big cities in European or Southeast Asian history but not in the world history.

  • Madrid 22nd according to Chandler
  • Genoa: 23rd according to Chandler
  • Florence: less than 25th (listed in Chandler's book)
  • Bangkok: less than 25th (listed in Chandler's book)Aurichalcum (talk) 02:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Technically, cutting the cities would be removing information from the encyclopedia. If there were a way to shorten this list but keep the information elsewhere, that would be a much better solution. Someone the Person (talk) 22:38, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Native American cities

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I added Caral in as an example from the Norte Chico civilization. Certainly pre-Columbus Native American cities are underrepresented here. -Phil5329 (talk) 03:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed on thatNativePride98 (talk) 20:00, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure?

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Costantinople 200,000 (1500)... and 50 years later (1550) 660,000??? Are you sure?

Of course, there's no mistery in it: in 1453, before the turkish conquest, Constantinople was utterly decadent, and had just a few thousands of population; after the conquest, all the riches of the Ottoman Empire arrived to Qustantinyya (as turks called it) or Istambul (as we know it today), and the city became the capital of an enormous empire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.61.149.65 (talk) 20:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

All Chandler citations should be removed

Latest comment: 10 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion
What I've been able to find out about Four Thousand Years of Urban Growth makes me think the author simply invented the Wikipedia figures out of thin air. In other books the same author has claimed that ancient Spaniards built Stonehenge, that Noah was Aeneas, and that Chinese writing was based on Moses' works.

Delete all stats cited to Chandler. Shii (tock) 04:09, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

For proof his statistics are fabricated, see his Hellenistic era Athens figure Shii (tock) 11:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
155,000 is not ridiculous as a guess. But Chandler is definitely out of date. You may also want to re-check several numbers I added in my innocence a few years ago from etext.org, a secondary source that took most of its numbers from Chandler; they're probably dubious as well. Someone the Person (talk) 02:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Agreed etext.org has some outrageously inacurrant estimates so it mind as well be kept off as a source on Wikipedia NativePride98 (talk) 19:58, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Indian cities, German, Austrian cities?

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Ahmedabad is here but where are Calcutta, Delhi and Mumbai? Frankfurt? Early years of Vienna or Berlin?Dogru144 (talk) 00:26, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

My Sourced edits were removed?

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I rescently made some edits on Native American Cities but somebody deleted it all not sure who. I sourced each of my Edits 3 times. All those sources were not out dated, were not travel companies, or random people, I sourced actual history cites. Who removed my edits because they had no business to?NativePride98 (talk) 20:24, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with List of largest cities throughout history

Latest comment: 6 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I would recommend the merge of the two lists, keeping the table formats of the Historical urban community sizes article. Most of the contents is similar and redundant. Codrin.B (talk) 19:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

How would the merged data be organized?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Futurebird (talk • contribs) 17:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Oppose, given the size of the two pages and the impracticality of a merge. The two pages address different questions; the Historical urban community sizes looks to categorize typical sizes of important cities, whereas the List of largest cities throughout history is focused on record-setting. I think that it is reasonable to keep both. Given that this proposal is stale, with no support over more than 2.5 years, I'll remove the merge templates. Klbrain (talk) 13:39, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Potosí

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Potosí was the worlds 5th biggest city around 1600 but is completely missing in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grullab (talk • contribs) 17:05, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Can't find reference for city of Mozah and others...

Latest comment: 8 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Modelski was faculty at Washington University. He passed away in 2014. The university has taken down his webpage no now a large number of references are broken. [1]

I could use some help finding the title of the page that these links point to. --futurebird (talk) 17:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Use [2] as a reference. Aryamanarora (talk) 15:58, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ [1][dead link]
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