Talk:Fox McCloud

Legs not prosthetic

Dylan Cuthbert issued a tweetstated that they're not prosthetic legs. I'll find the tweet when I get to a computer where Twitter isn't blocked... WhisperToMe (talk) 02:47, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

• From this YouTube video: "Star Fox's Legs Weren't Cut Off - 5 Facts & Busted Myths from Series' Co-Creator Dylan Cuthbert." Game Xplain. May 24, 2016: 2:45 - He is being livestreamed playing the game and is directly answering that the legs haven't been amputated. And Miyamoto in "Interview with Miyamoto: Star Fox Zero " by the JWittz, March 3, 2016, at 7:54 is asked about the legs and also answers no. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:16, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Dylan Cuthbert didn't design any of the Star Fox characters: Takaya Imamura did: if anyone was going to debunk any theories it would be Imamura. Also, in the very video you provided, Miyamoto doesn't say anything at all denying or confirming that the legs were amputated. The fact that their legs were amputated also doesn't need any exposition beyond what is plainly visible, across all of the official media, and even in-game. The only source showing Fox or any of the other characters to have organic feet is fanart], so their legs are prosthetic. 2606:A000:1500:4095:BC1B:DEA1:6466:E9F1 (talk) 20:55, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Imamura, Cuthbert, and Miyamoto worked together on the same team. As long as one doesn't contradict the other, I don't see a problem. In any case it's necessary to get an explicit, reliable, published source to say something (in that the legs are prosthetic) or else it can't be stated on Wikipedia, since simply supposing something from official art would count as Wikipedia:Original research which is expressly forbidden. I'm not having a statement in the article saying "His legs are not prosthetic" - I'm merely removing any statements which says they are prosthetic. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:04, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

I must also add, @2606:A000:1500:4095:BC1B:DEA1:6466:E9F1:, that Miyamoto clearly addressed the interviewer's question on whether the legs were amputated or whether it was a "design choice" - "design desu" was what he said, and the person translating confirmed this. It's clear that anything about the legs should be excluded from the article; no reliable sources discuss them, and both Cuthbert and Miyamoto say they were not amputated. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:04, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

• By that logic, we need an explicit, reliable, published source to say that Fox McCloud has two legs instead of four (the same kind of firsthand observation is used in both cases). A mere image is enough evidence to prove what needs to be proven in such a situation, and there are quite literally thousands upon countless thousands of such images from various official Nintendo media, displaying clear and unmistakable Hinge joints in the place of Fox's ankles, attached to metallic legs and feet with blatantly obvious rivets in them. All artwork failing to show these features invariably show his feet covered in boots: Fox has never been shown with exposed organic feet of any kind in any official media at the time of this writing. The evidence of his legs being mechanical is extremely pervasive, and explicit as-is upon observation of his uncovered feet: no deeper explanation or better references than Nintendo's own official media are needed in this case. Until that changes, the statements will remain. Idazmi (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
  • @Idazmi: I think Cuthbert put to rest.
    • Sorceror Lance: @dylancuthbert dunno anyone asked, but do you know if the Starfox crew had robotic legs or were they hi-tech boots?
    • Cuthbert: High tech boots - it’d be a bit weird to say the least if they all had no legs :)
    • Sorceror Lance: it's been a long-standing fan theory seeing the old puppets & art they had their legs amputated to reduce blood flow to withstand g-forces
    • Cuthbert: Lol that’s pretty hard core for Nintendo :)
  • This is not about including a statement that Fox has four legs. It is about excluding a statement saying his legs were amputated.
  • You are welcome to ask the Wikipedia:OR noticeboard but I doubt they will allow original research statements about McCloud's legs. I just went ahead and alerted the OR noticeboard to this anyway.
  • WhisperToMe (talk) 07:09, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Why are we having this discussions at all? @Idazmi, that's not how Wikipedia works. You seem to be a fairly new editor, may I suggest you take a moment to read the guidelines? It might be "blatantly obvious" to you, but your own conclusions is not what we can base articles upon. We're talking about a fictional character: what is Fox's fictional backstory? Can you point to a player manual where it says that his legs were amputated? A comic book maybe? Or what do reliable sources say? We've got a custom Google search engine for that. I couldn't find any information on the matter. Until you can prove otherwise, the statements will not be part of the article. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 09:08, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

It seems like no reliable source has ever picked this story up. Therefore, it's not really worth covering either way. Whether this fictional character has his legs amputated or not is apparently not "notable" enough for reliable sources to dig into it. ~Mable (chat) 10:22, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. While an editor attached an article from Nintendoeverything.com I can't find anything about its publishing/editorial standards, so it doesn't seem to count. The matter should not be discussed at all in the article unless say Game Informer, Gamepro, or some other major gaming magazine brings it up. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:02, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Nintendoeverything.com is unreliable and has frequently posted incorrect information (numerous issues for Switch game announcements). It should be removed wherever its being used. -- ferret (talk) 14:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Ridiculous fan theory based on old game assets, with no reliable secondary coverage or even primary statements that it is the case. -- ferret (talk) 12:14, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

• Clear violation of our WP:OR policy. Do not include. Sergecross73 msg me 19:10, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
• Note that User:Masem made a comment agreeing that it is original research at Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard#Fox McCloud's legs - were they amputated? WhisperToMe (talk) 12:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
• Yeah, very clear-cut case of original research. (And remarkably far-fetched original research at that. People really conclude that his legs have been amputated just because his boots are a metallic color? Next they'll be insisting that Sonic the Hedgehog's backside is composed of a mass of water which he controls with telekinesis, because looking at the artwork you can clearly see that it's blue.)--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:48, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

@Idazmi:@Soetermans:@Maplestrip:@Ferret:@Sergecross73:@Martin IIIa:@Icewhiz: Somebody did end up finding a Game Informer article which talks about it. The writer (Ben Reeves, a Game Informer employee) did believe in the robotic legs "theory", but he stated "Nintendo has never commented on this fact". (and as User:Masem said, we now have statements from Cuthbert and Miyamoto saying it's not true) - Masem believes that now we can comment on the fan theory but not state it as truth. IMO it would be nice to find additional RSes that talk about it. It would also be nice to contact Reeves and show him Cuthbert's and Miyamoto's statements to see if he will update the article. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:06, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe:@Soetermans:@Maplestrip:@Ferret:@Sergecross73:@Martin IIIa:@Icewhiz: Shigeru Miyamoto has never stated that the Star Fox characters legs were not mechanical in any context, including the JWittz interview you linked. In fact, at 8:26 in that video, Miyamoto's translator directly states that it was an artistic choice he deliberately made to explain why Fox has humanoid legs instead of the legs of a fox, directly implying that he is a cyborg in the style of Rocket Raccoon. Also, while Dylan Cuthbert was the programmer of Star Fox under Argonaut Software, he was not the character design artist, nor did he create the scenario. Cuthbert is also not directly affiliated with nor employed under Nintendo. Idazmi (talk) 07:36, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

@Idazmi: Context is key. Watch the whole Miyamoto segment from 7:53 and it's clear it's an either-or-question: Miyamoto was asked either metal legs or a design choice ("Speaking of Star Fox's crew[...]do they amputate their legs[...]or is that just a design, is everyone crazy?"). Since he said design, he did not choose the "metal legs" choice. And since they're all on the same team, it's fair to say "the creators" said no. Anyway, as others say, it's a minor aspect of the character. I think a sentence or two is fine but no more than that. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

This is clearly a fan theory (which may or may not have been an internal Nintendo thing back in the 90s - the definitely decided not to roll with it later). However it is a notable fan theory - which would make sense mentioning it, backed up by sources, that it is a fan theory. If a rapper, Quentin Miller, who lost a foot embrace this and even releases a "Falco" mixtape - we can say this umm, has some legs.[1][2] Quentin Miller seems to be embracing that idea with the name of his latest mixtape Falco. Falco is a character from the video game series Star Fox. Falco is the wingman to Fox McCloud and Falco just happens to have metal legs. Just like Falco, Quentin Miller is ready to takeoff and shoot for the stars..Icewhiz (talk) 09:20, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

• There is a lack of sourcing and community consensus to add this as a fact. So let's wrap these discussions up. Sergecross73 msg me 09:37, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
• The linked Game Informer article can be used to source the fact that this fan theory exists (and that Nintendo has commented on it). Definitely doesn't deserve more than one sentence on it, per due weight. I don't really care whether it is mentioned or not either way, as it's a really minor aspect of this character (per the low number of sources commenting on it). ~Mable (chat) 10:51, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

@Soetermans:@Maplestrip:@Ferret:@Sergecross73:@Martin IIIa:@Icewhiz: BTW Idazmi added the leg theory stuff all over again - Idazmi, I think it's better to hash it all out on the talk page, then add it later. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:50, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Proposed sentence: "There is a fan theory stating that Fox McCloud, along with other Star Fox members, had his legs amputated and replaced with metal prostheses,(Game Informer source) and this is referenced in a song by rapper Quentin Miller; Cuthbert stated that the characters' legs were not amputated, and Miyamoto stated that the appearance of metal legs was a design choice rather than an indication that the legs were amputated." WhisperToMe (talk) 04:40, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

• I'm mostly okay with that - I think the part about Quentin Miller should be moved to the end, or omitted entirely though. I don't think it's good to place it between the other two sentences like that. Sergecross73 msg me 15:56, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

• I'm cool with changing the order around, so I'll put it in the end :) WhisperToMe (talk) 09:30, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

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Suggestion: Add Fox McCloud to the Animal superheroes category

I propose to add this page to the category Animal superheroes.

Although McCloud is not a superhero in the typical sense, I observe that characters such as Crash Bandicoot, Sonic and Spyro are also listed there, to whom the same could be argued to apply, and therefore think that it would be sensible to include Fox McCloud on said list.

If there are additional pages for the rest of the Star Fox team, they could also be added to the category, as several other franchises referenced by this category also have multiple characters listed, such as those from the Captain Carrot comics. 2A02:C7D:16D0:4F00:9986:D999:81D9:26A6 (talk) 21:47, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@2A02:C7D:16D0:4F00:9986:D999:81D9:26A6: The definition of superhero is "a benevolent fictional character with superhuman powers". Does Fox specifically possess any superhuman powers? ~ P*h3i (📨) 07:11, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

On another note, I have created a discussion on the topic of Crash Bandicoot's placement in the category. I have not with Sonic the Hedgehog or Spyro as they possess superhuman powers; abnormally high speed (atypical of a hedgehog) and icy breath (atypical of a dragon). Spyro's argument is weaker although it has some merit. ~ P*h3i (📨) 07:16, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Chief protagonist

The lead section of the article describes Fox as the chief protagonist of the Star Fox saga, which I find redundant. I mean, he is already the protagonist, what makes him chief among others? Last time I checked, Star Fox doesn't have multiple and rotating protagonists or an ensemble cast. Yes, Star Fox 2 and Star Fox Command have multiple playable characters but that doesn't mean that Fox is no longer the sole protagonist of the saga. Am I missing something? Leader Vladimir (talk) 16:57, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Rationale for making Fox a high-importance article

I think Fox qualifies as high-importance with regards to WP:VG, he was listed in the "Greatest Gaming Icons" magazine and is extremely well-known, if not for Star Fox than for his heavy popularity in Smash. However, since he is listed as one of the mid-tier examples Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment, I thought that I would ask for agreement on this. If people agree, I can change his name to someone else on the table. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:31, 18 December 2023 (UTC)