Talk:David Webber (basketball)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:22, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that Chris Webber's brother, David broke Larry Bird's record? Source: https://www.proquest.com/docview/263455437
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Charles Sorby
  • Comment: 8th of 10 QPQs for this review

Created by TonyTheTiger (talk). Self-nominated at 11:46, 22 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/David Webber (basketball); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• The article is new and long enough. The prose is quite enjoyable. It cites excellent sources but takes too much liberty with them. For example, the cited source does not say that the "pressure of being Chris' younger brother had put Webber in a nearly suicidal state." It mentions neither the pressure of being Chris's younger brother nor any suicidal state. Also, the hook is not clear about who these men are. I had not heard of them before. Who is Chris Webber? Who is Larry Bird? Record in what? I suggest ensuring that the article says what the cited sources say and that the hook be clearer about who/what it is about. Surtsicna (talk) 20:46, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
• ALT1 ... that Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber's brother, David, broke Basketball Hall of Famer Larry Bird's single-game scoring record?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• How are we suppose to interpret "I felt a lot of pressure and I didn’t feel like I could take it anymore." That to me sounds suicidal.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:07, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• ALT2 ...that Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber's brother, David, was a 2001 Oscar Robertson Trophy finalist along with his high school teammate and Collegiate Basketball Hall of Famer Shane Battier?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:00, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
• A ping to Surtsicna – TonyTheTiger, the quote you've provided absolutely does not definitively imply suicidality, and that's a huge claim to make on a BLP. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 18:33, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

• (dropping in to comment) The full context in the source supports the claim: The pressure has been too much for David Webber at times. There were days the younger brother of NBA All-Star Chris Webber didn’t even want to live. “I can remember being in my house after another bad game during my junior year in high school, when I told God not to wake me up in the morning,” David said. “I was praying all night, for hours, saying, ‘God, please don’t wake me up.’ “I felt a lot of pressure and I didn’t feel like I could take it anymore.”

Also suggesting ALT1a, informative but a bit unwieldy: that Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber's brother David broke Hall of Famer Larry Bird's single-game scoring record on his college's home court? Hameltion (talk | contribs) 00:06, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

• ALT1a???-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:52, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• I find ALT1a hard to support because a.) it is as you suggest unwieldy and b.) it elimnates the intrigue that begs for a clickthrough.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:15, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
• user:theleekycauldron and User:Surtsicna, any response to User:Hameltion's July 6 comment?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Hameltion's comment checks out, but it's up to Surtscina to continue the review. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:24, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

New reviewer needed; Surtscina has not responded. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I'll take on the review. Legoktm (talk) 06:47, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: See below Legoktm (talk) 07:41, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Blocking issues:

• I think the suicide sentence is in the wrong section? It's currently under "College career" but the source quotes him as saying, "I can remember being in my house after another bad game during my junior year in high school..." (emphasis mine), so shouldn't it be in the "Early life" section? (2 other editors have already OK'd the sentence so I'm fine with it, but I personally would've preferred to just quote him or the source instead of applying the "suicide" label ourselves).
  • Thanks for the attention and suggestion. It has been implemented.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:47, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• The infobox says he went undrafted in 2002, but that's not mentioned in the "Professional career" section.
  • added.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:50, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• "Webber attended the October 2002 Sacramento Kings training camp when his brother played for the team" - which brother?
  • Not sure why this would be a blocking issue. How many NBA brothers does he have. But it is now resolved.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Not blocking issues:

• "Manciel, who had played with him at Detroit Country Day, matriculated to CMU with him.", The previous sentence discusses Chris, so I think you need to use "David" instead of "him".
  • Fixed.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:04, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• Why does the "College career" section start with his brother? Seems like that should go after explaining that David joined CMU.
  • This is resolved, but on a side note, I have posted a query at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball#Source_help.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:25, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• "According to the March 2020 update of the Central Michigan Record Book,..." takes the punch out of the fact that he broke Bird's record. I think it would be better phrased as something like: "Webber set the Central Michigan record for McGuirk Arena single-game points (51 vs. Ball State February 24, 2000), breaking the previous arena record set on December 5, 1977, by Larry Bird (45 points). As of the March 2020 update of the Central Michigan Record Book, Webber and Bird hold their records for either team and visiting team players, respectively."
  • Thx. Adjusted.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:25, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• Should Cal be called "California"?
  • Honestly, I don't think so. Sports media has traditionally referred to the school in this way. I am very surprised about the official page name for California Golden Bears sports. Look at the logo on that page.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• "He led the MAC in scoring... That season he led Central Michigan in scoring" - isn't that redundant?
  • You are looking at it out of context. "He led the MAC in scoring . . .That season, he led Central Michigan in scoring, rebounding, assists and steals."-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• "to the first worst-to-first first-place finish in MAC history" - it took me multiple tries to figure out what was meant here, I think using "first" in three consecutive words just doesn't work.
  • Resolved.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• Him being a teammate with his brother Jason is already explained, does it need to be repeated in "Personal life"?
  • I'm going to leave this.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Hook:

• I like your original idea of focusing on him breaking Larry Bird's record. Bird has a number of records, so I think leaving it unspecified makes it hooky. What do you think of this?
  • ALT1b: ...that Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber's brother David broke one of Larry Bird's records?

And I did a light copyedit, let me know if you have any issues with that. Legoktm (talk) 07:41, 28 July 2023 (UTC)User talk:Surtsicna

TonyTheTiger see above ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:24, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

• User:Legoktm &User:AirshipJungleman29 ALT1b does not meet the objection from User talk:Surtsicna above.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:45, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

  Right, that was on purpose. I don't think we need to explain who Larry Bird is if the hook already says "basketball", he's famous enough. Legoktm (talk) 07:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

• Thx for the review. It is busy season for TaskRabbit furniture assemblers like myself. Will get to it soon.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:08, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Looks good, nice work Tony :) Tick for ALT1b, ALT1a, ALT0 and ALT2 (in that preference order). Legoktm (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:David Webber (basketball)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Gonzo fan2007 (talk · contribs) 23:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

I don't have a lot of comments, this article is in really good shape. Here are my few:

Comments

• Per MOS:ALLCAPS, the titles of newspapers in the citations should be converted to title case.
  • Done-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:06, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
• The first paragraph of the lead has four straight sentences that start with "He played" "He was" "he holds". The repetition of "he" could use some improvement.
  • OK-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:56, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
• The one-sentence paragraph in "College career" should be merge into the previous paragraph. The previous paragraph and he one sentence both relate to CMU.
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:57, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
• The "Professional career" section should be combined into two paragraphs to break up the short, choppy paragraphs after his NBA aspirations. First paragraph: NBA, second: everything else.
  • Thx-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:59, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
• Chris Webber isn't linked in the body of the article, even though it is linked in the lead. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
  • linked-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:09, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

References

• I don't have access to ProQuest, so I'm going to AGF on those, which make up most of the references in the article.
• Spot checked: Refs 1, 5, 11, 16, 19, 23, 29, 32, 34, 35, 38, 41.
  • Ref 1: what makes TV Guide a reliable source?
    • I believe the TV Guide magazine is a WP:RS, so I just extended that reliability to the website.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:41, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Ref 5: how was this accessed by you? No link.
    • I was unable to access this through the Chicago Public Library website like other ProQuest sources. However, a search result made it clear that this was a source with encyclopedic content. I contacted the Detroit Public Library, who wanted to charge me for the access. Then I contacted Ann Arbor District Library and explained who I am and they gave sent me this source by email.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Ref 16: how was this accessed by you? No link.
    • Also unable to access, but the search result blurb showed that the article supports the content that this citation supports.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:23, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Ref 19: is this supposed to support the statement that he redshirted?
    • Yes. What is the issue?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:25, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Ref 41: what makes statscrew.com reliable?

Nothing too big, putting on hold. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Everything looks good, passing. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:43, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.