Talk:2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election

Polls below are since 24 April 2016 inside article Opinion polling for the next Ukrainian parliamentary election

Thanks to Денис П.; all the polls below are now incorporated in Opinion polling for the next Ukrainian parliamentary election. Thanks mate!
— Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 13:51, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Opinion polls for future use in article

Opinion poll Kyiv International Institute of Sociology March 2015

An opinion poll Kyiv International Institute of Sociology from March 2015, that can be used in the future expanding of this Wikipedia article, can be found here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:16, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Opinion poll Sociological group "RATING" June 2015

An opinion poll by Sociological group "RATING" from June 2015, that can be used in the future expanding of this Wikipedia article, can be found here and here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:48, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Opinion poll Kyiv International Institute of Sociology September 2015

An opinion poll Kyiv International Institute of Sociology from September 2015, that can be used in the future expanding of this Wikipedia article, can be found here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:40, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Opinion poll Sociological group "RATING" January 2016

Opinion poll Sociological group "RATING" from January 2016 can be found here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:32, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Opinion poll Kyiv International Institute of Sociology February 2016

An opinion poll Kyiv International Institute of Sociology conducted on February 5-16, 2016, that can be used in the future expanding of this Wikipedia article, can be found here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:22, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Party issues

I have a few questions about the party issues table

a) There is one source for the War in Donbass positions, but it doesn't include some of the parties whose positions are listed on the table. What's the source for those positions? b) There are no sources for any of the other issues. As far as I know, for example, the Servant of the People party currently has no official platform or position on any of these issues. What are the sources for those positions? c) Two parties have their position listed as a "Weighted Position" under the NATO issue. What does this mean?

Thanks, Cran32 (talk) 18:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Cran32 here. The section is undersourced and the source on War in Donbass is questionable (in this interview the leader of Servant of the People is not very strongly pro-Minsk and wants to adjust that protocol while the source claims Servant of the People to be "pro-Minsk"). The whole table looks educated guesswork by an inexperienced Wikipedia editor.... Other 2019 parliamentary election Wikipedia articles have no "Party issues"-section and previous Ukrainian parliamentary election Wikipedia articles neither.... Hence I will delete the section since it seems to go against Wikipedia standards. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:11, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I removed the section (For the sake of clarity I copied the section to here below). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Party issues

In 2018

Issue					File:ОП-ЗЖ logo2018.jpg	Nashi	Radical Party of Oleh Lyashko			Servant of the People (political party)
Form of government	Parliamentary republic	Semi-presidential system	Parliamentary republic	Parliamentary republic	Semi-presidential system	Federal republic	Presidential Republic	Presidential Republic	Presidential Republic	Semi-presidential system
War in Donbass	Anti-Minsk	Pro-Minsk	Anti-Minsk	Pro-Minsk	Pro-Minsk	Pro-Minsk	Anti-Minsk	Anti-Minsk	Anti-Minsk	Pro-Minsk
Ideology	Christian democracy	National conservatism	Liberal conservatism	Russian minority interests	Social democracy	Social democracy	Right-wing populism	Ukrainian nationalism	Conservatism	Big tent
Economics, taxes, tariffs	Centre-left	Centre-right	Centre-right	Centre	Centre-left	Centre-left	Left-wing	Centre-left	Centre-right	Centre-right
Status of Russian and other minority languages	No status	No status	No status	Regional status	Regional status	Regional status	No status	No status	No status	No status
NATO	Pro-NATO	Pro-NATO	Pro-NATO	Anti-NATO	Anti-NATO	Anti-NATO	Weighted Position	Pro-NATO	Pro-NATO	Weighted Position

References

People's Front

Hi

The party should be removed because it will not contest the election. --Panam2014 (talk) 23:33, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that we have enough reliable sources confirming that they won't be running, so they should be removed from the infobox. Given their 'historical' high profile, however, I do think that there should be a mention of their withdrawal in the body of the article at the least. Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Muraev is not the leader of the Opposition bloc

Since that unregistered friend is not going to communicate with me, I will repeat what I wrote to him here.

Hello! I want to notify you that the edit you added to the article is incorrect. The party’s leader at the moment is Boris Kolesnikov, not Yevgeny Murayev. As proof, you give me an article in which there is not a word about Murayev being appointed leader of the party. Yes, he is the leader of the list. But in the infobox there are leaders of LOTS, not lists. A vivid example of this is the article about the previous parliamentary elections. In the infobox, the leader of “Self-help” is Sadovy, but in fact he was in 50th places on the list. I hope that my comment will change something in your opinion. Thank. --CatStepan2006 (talk) 02:05, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Murayev is the leader of the Opposition Bloc, not Kolesnikov

Who told you I wasn’t going to respond and I actually did respond in the past, it looks like you failed to look at what I wrote. Your claim that Kolesnikov is the leader and representative of Opposition Bloc is incorrect. Borys Kolesnikov is not the leader of the electoral list of Opposition Bloc. I have specifically explained that Evgeny Murayev is the electoral leader of Opposition Bloc. Some members of the united party have been given party offices. Evgeny Murayev is the leader of the electoral list during the election, also placed 1st on party-list, Borys Kolesnikov is the Chairman of the Political Union, Oleksandr Vilkul as deputy leader, and Vadym Novynskyi as Leader of faction in Verkhovna Rada. I have provided a source next Murayev’s name in the article, 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election, proving that Murayev is the leader of Opposition Bloc, which is why he should be placed as the representative for Opposition Bloc, not Kolesnikov. The source also lists other member offices of the party, but it keeps getting reverted by a user who not only fails to read the sources I had provided to him, but, he also fails to provide sources, himself. The official party website also states the office of Borys Kolesnikov and the office of Evgeny Murayev. I would like you to please read the sources that I have asked you to read at the second time I had requested you do so.[1] [2] [3] -98.115.173.240 (talk) 03:57, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

It's clear to me that, according to the most recent information, Murayev is the leader. Kolesnikov is the Chairman of the Political Council. There's a distinct difference. Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:13, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Iryna Harpy (talk), for reading the sources I had provided.
:) -98.115.173.240 (talk) 04:23, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome. This was my understanding from the get-go. I fail to understand wherein the confusion lies. CatStepan2006, could you please provide a reliable source for Kolesnikov as leader? Thanks. Incidentally, if Yulia Romero is around at the moment, your input would be appreciated! Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Single ballot?

Does the ukrainians votes on a single ballot counting for the First past the post AND the proportional system? There's only one "Votes" column in the table. --Aréat (talk) 16:41, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Barrier on Results

I have proposed putting a barrier on the results of the Ukrainian election, I wrote “Parties who didnt’t pass the electoral threshold of 5%.” It does not cut out other parties. There is a gray barrier also, but, I am opposed to that kind of barrier because that specific barrier cuts out other parties, but the barrier with words doesn’t. The barrier I proposed putting is for parties who passed 5% is on top and those who didn’t go below. I am aware about three parties who won constituency seats without the 5%, so I thought to put a barrier of those who passed the threshold and those who don’t. - 98.115.173.240 (talk) 17:27, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

This text spoils the view of the results table. I support deletion. Let us better make no barrier line instead, solid table. Olek Bokhan (talk) 17:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Same opinion here. It's better not to have text cut the tables in two.--Aréat (talk) 18:32, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

It's also pointless as the threshold doesn't apply to FPTP seats and parties may win seats in those constituencies even if they fail to pass the national threshold. These cut-offs are only appropriate where there is a national threshold that applies to all categories of seats (e.g. April 2019 Israeli legislative election#Results). Number 57 20:49, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

And even in these election pages, we make them thin and discrete, without text.--Aréat (talk) 22:00, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Majority seats

The Infobox election contain a field "Majority seats" that has to show the number of seats required for a majority government. The Article 83 of the Constitution of Ukraine says: "A coalition of deputy factions comprising a majority of people’s deputies of Ukraine in the constitutional membership of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine shall be formed in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine on the basis of the results of election and on the basis of the harmonization of the political platforms." The words "in the constitutional membership" are added to determine that to be considered a "majority" coalition must gather more than half from MPs number set by the Constitution. It doesn't matter how many MPs are presenter in the chamber. The Article 76 of the Constitution says "constitutional membership" = 450 MPs, consequently "majority" = 226 MPs. If you still have doubt, let's remember why Ukraine has this early election. The President dissolved the Verkhovna Rada because since March 2016 there were no majority in coalition: less than 226. Dear users of Wikipedia, help to correct this mistake. Olek Bokhan (talk) 18:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

References

Dear users of Wikipedia, what we all know is that the mistake is the statement above. The constitution states that 450 seats will have election, yes I agree, but 26 are not up for election due the areas being occupied by Russian-backed proxies. There are 424 seats contesting not 450, meaning the majority is lowered from 226 to 213. I have explained with a source that 26 areas are occupied, but the user above fails to understand what I am trying to say. Please explain to him that 424 seats not 450 seats are being elected. - 98.115.173.240 (talk) 22:35, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Dear Number 57, can you judge? Olek Bokhan (talk) 23:41, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Dear Iryna Harpy, I am addressing you because I know you are an expert on this article, can you please resolve this issue? [4] source to prove my point. 98.115.173.240 (talk) 20:23, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Olek's assertion above. However, there should be a note to state why this figure has been used (the current note is not very helpful). I would suggest something like "Although only 424 of the 450 seats of the Verkhovna Rada were elected due to the Russian occupation of Crimea and instability in the Donbass region, article 83 of the constitution mandates that a parliamentary majority is based on the constitutional membership (450 seats) of the legislature, equating to 226 seats." Number 57 21:37, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on sources, not on opinions of editors. this respectable source clearly states that 226 seats are needed to form a coalition. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:42, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

This BBC Ukrainian source also states that the parliamentary majority is 226 deputies. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:51, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

This is very shocking indeed because I have explained that Russia occupies 26 seats. Lowering it from 450 to 424. I agree that the constitution says 450 seats, but 26 seats are not up for election, don’t count those seats because they are vacated, so it cannot possibly be 226 anymore. I have attached a note saying 424 seats are up for election (including 26 vacancies) and if, all 450 seats were up for election, the majority would be 226. How can you compare vacant seats and elected seats? I ask Iryna Harpy to judge this issue as well. 98.115.173.240 (talk) 21:51, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Pinging editor Iryna Harpy

Again, dear 100.34.181.24, Wikipedia is based on sources and not on logic reasoning. So what you or me consider to be right or wrong does not matter.... Iryna Harpy has no choice to agree with me that the parliamentary majority is 226 deputies based on the reliable sources I provided here above.... I do not compare vacant seats and elected seats... I am simply saying that respectable sources say that the parliamentary majority is 226 deputies. It is not my personal fault that the parliamentary majority in Ukraine is 226 deputies.... I have nothing to do why this is; I have simply proved that it is... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:06, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Listen, dear Yulia Romero, I have also provided sources, respectfully, which I urge you to look at. I have explained that 26 seats are not up for election which is supported by the sources which I had provided for you. I’ll give you a simple example, if, Servant of the People didn’t get a majority, they would have to rely on something, correct? Correct. They can’t ask vacated seats to help them with a majority, because no one is filling the seats. It cannot possibly be a 226-majority when 26 seats are vacated, if all 450 seats were up for election like in Russia, then the majority would be 226. 100.34.181.24 (talk) 22:13, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

The source that you provided from Euronews does not say how many seats are needed for a parliamentary majority... The Ukrayinska Pravda source also does not.... I do not care about the Russian parliament.... and don't see what that has to do with the Ukrainian parliament.... I have been following Ukrainian politics for years and 226 seats are needed for a parliamentary majority in Ukraine according to reliable sources. If you can not accept this you have to complain about this to a representative of the Ukrainian parliament, not to me (I am not personally affiliated with the Ukrainian parliament).... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:37, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok, User:Yulia Romero, this is now what you call it, not respecting editors, like you said on the article to me, which is an absolutely ridiculous allegation. No one is saying you are affiliated to anything and it seems that your behavior is unacceptable because you started saying something about complaining? Excuse me, but that should not be tolerated in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is where you have peaceful discussions with other users, even if, users disagree with something. You should care about the example I had explained to you along with the sources I had provided for you, which you failed to read because it clearly states “424 seats are up for election.” I gave you a simple example about Russia, specifically because Russia also has 450 seats, like Ukraine, but what’s the difference? The difference is, is that Russia has (all 450 seats up for election meaning = 226 seats majority). Ukraine has 450 seats with 26 vacated ——> lowering to 424 seats. 100.34.181.24 (talk) 22:53, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else. 226 seats are needed for a parliamentary majority in Ukraine according to reliable sources. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources to asure verifiability. I

have also sometimes felt offended on Wikipedia, I should have been more kind. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:09, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

It’s completely fine, but sources that I have given you prove that 424 seats are up for election in Ukraine, while 26 remain vacated, meaning the majority threshold was lowered. Constitution says 450 because 26 vacated seats are included in the constitution, but only 424 seats are being elected.
450 seats (up for election) = 226
424 seats (up for election) = not 226

Thank you, 100.34.181.24 (talk) 23:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC) I am sorry, but you are engaged in WP:OR. WP:OR is a common mistake for new editors, but still always a mistake. According to a Constitutional Court of Ukraine 2010 ruling "the coalition's activities are stopped if there are fewer than 226 people's deputies in it". I have seen no source that claims that this ruling became invalid because 26 parliamentary seats can not be elected. In fact I have seen only sources from after the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election that claim that 226 seats are needed for a parliamentary majority... If I consider it wrong or right that 226 seats are needed for a parliamentary majority does not matter on Wikipedia.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:42, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

You see the thing is, Yulia Romero, the only source I have seen from you is the one above which is from 2016, unfortunately we are not in 2016. It actually looks like you are engaged with WP:OR, not me and being new has nothing to do with it because everybody makes mistakes, don’t forget that. I will happily provide you sources where it says 424 seats are up for election and 26 are vacant. [5] [6] [7] (proves there are 424 seats elected and 26 seats vacated. 100.34.181.24 (talk) 23:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I did provide 2 respectable sources dated 21 July 2019 and 23 July 2019 (2 days after the election) that clearly state 226 seats are needed for a parliamentary majority. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:12, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

By the way I have saw no information that this Constitutional Court ruling of 2010 became invalid.... Please provide a respected source that says that the ruling became invalid. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:15, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

PS I have never stated that during the election 424 seats were elected and 26 are thus vacant. But despite this 226 seats are still needed for a parliamentary majority according to sources. The fact that 26 seats are vacant is being ignored obviously. I am not responsible for that.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:24, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello all. As Yulia Romero has clearly pointed out, we policy, and policy states that we follow reliable sources. If reliable sources tell us that 226 seats are needed, we can't apply WP:CALC and split the difference according to how many seats were up for grabs. 226 is the majority regardless of who chose to run and who didn't. Please, let's not breach WP:NOR. I don't know what this is going to accomplish trying to second-guess the machinations of a very imperfect system. We don't have any experts in the Ukrainian political system here, therefore pursuing it further is just going to raise hackles. That would be a pity as, with all of my years of experience on Wikipedia, I've been (pleasantly) taken aback by how collaboratively and smoothly this article has evolved. In all honesty, I'd just like to congratulate the main contributors for the sterling, albeit unfinished, effort that's gone into this article. Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:03, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

The map of the results

Such a map has been uploaded at 80% counted. Add it now or wait? Link.--Adûnâi (talk) 19:12, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

"Opposition Platform — For Life" Party Stats

The infobox lists the following stats for the OPFL party:

Seats before: New
Seats won: 44
Seat change: +17

This is confusing. Either (a) the "Seats before" value should be "27", or (b) the "Seat change" value should be "New". Personally, I think option (a) is better, however, a note must be added explaining that the OPFL was established as a merger of existing political groups in the previous Rada, and that's where the "27" comes from. Thoughts? --46.242.13.7 (talk) 22:41, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Ukrainian politics is confusing (and often making me feel frustrated, sorry for bothering others with that...).... Trust me.... But about the topic at hand... if it can be explained/sourced where the "27" comes from I prefer option (a) too. Unfortunately it is very common in Ukraine that new parties in Ukraine are created inside parliament between elections (All-Ukrainian Union "Fatherland" and European Solidarity are good examples of this). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:00, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I can see what your concern is. When the initial Opposition Bloc dissolved into two new parties, Opposition Platform — For Life and Opposition Bloc, some MPs defected to OP and some to OB. It seems someone had deleted a note that I had attached previously, which said that the 27 MPs came from the last session of parliament with MPs from Boyko’s wing for the initial Opposition Bloc and independent MPs affiliated to Vadim Rabinovich. 100.34.181.24 (talk) 23:05, 23 July 2019 (UTC) (2019)

Total of seats

The current total of seats make 447, and not 450. --Aréat (talk) 13:59, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Next election

Ukrainian parliament just adopted a full proportional system [8]. However the article mention the next election as being held on october 2023, and it's making me doubt whether it's a typo. As far as I know, the election should be in october 2024, right? --Aréat (talk) 23:37, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

It would be a typo of Rferl's behalf. Don't panic, it does happen. I'm sure others have notified them, but you could always contact them via the email address supplied at the bottom of the article in order to expedite the correction. If not, there will be other RS with content attesting to the correct information soon enough. Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:13, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Results on oblast level

If anyone can add the election results on oblast level in the article, it would be very appreciated. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 17:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Grammar: election or elections?

The name of the current article uses the singular form, but the lede uses plural (the same case is with the Opinion polling for the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election article). Why is that?--Adûnâi (talk) 19:18, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Proportional final results

The OSCE released a final report with the total for the proportional votes as well as the total of valid and invalid votes and registered voters on its page 34, for the info.--Aréat (talk) 18:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)