Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Serbia/Archive 5

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Tadija, my hero.

There is a constant criation and "recriation", also exageration, and lies, of articles refering to Serbian crimes, genocide, Serbs being guilty for everything done to "poorly armed" Albanian or Bosnian "civilians"... There is even an article Joint Criminal Enterprise, that is constantly linked by User:Mladifilozof to all Serbian related articles where the Serbian role in Yugoslav Wars is put as equal as the Nazi Germany role in WWII. Is that legal? What about that article (Joint Criminal Enterprise), what´s that? Wy doesn´t enybody, beside User:Tadija responds to this??? It´s really time for Serbs to stop letting everybody say everything bad about Serbs. There are things that are throu, but others are not, and if somebody defends the throut, it doesn´t mean he´s Milosevic or Seselj fan. Israeli people, in the great majority, constantly defends it´s point of view without necessarily being "ultra-nationalist", but if a Serb says anything against the constant anti-Serb points of view, it inmediatelly labeled as "Pro-ethning cleansing" or something like... It´s time to end this! Dosta! Reagujte!!! FkpCascais (talk) 23:35, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

And i will post something that was written on my talk page, by that user:

Moramo plakati i pisati o zločinima koje je naša država počinili prema Drugima, ne bi li smo se na taj način iskupili.--Mladifilozof (talk) 12:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Translation

We must post and write about about atrocities that our country was committed to others, so we can be redeemed.--Mladifilozof (talk) 12:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

He clearly show to me that he will not be NPOV. ¡No pasarán!.

The use of Wikipedia for political propaganda is prohibited by Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. --Tadija (talk) 00:13, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Narco-money clearly dictates the policies to be written...

P.S.:The historical articles about Serbia, and even maps are under attack wright now. FkpCascais (talk) 06:18, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Serbian Barnstar of National Merit

Template:Serbia Barnstar of National Merit was created.

Using this () and this (), official barnstar should be created. First who create it, should replace medal that is there now. --Tadija (talk) 17:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM • talk) 03:53, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Death project

WikiProject Death

Many massacre articles for ex-Yugoslavia were tagged by Wikiproject death (including Talk:Bruška massacre, Talk:Ahmići massacre and Talk:Podujevo massacre). I removed these tags but have been asked to reinstate them. I believe it is insensitive to have the following template on the talkpages of these articles Wikipedia:WikiProject Death/Templates. Many relatives of those killed can look at these pages. Please make your opinions known on this here and keep a watch on this talkpage tagging. I have suggested that it is okay for wikiproject death to keep a view on these articles but that the project banner on the talkpages is not acceptable. Polargeo (talk) 07:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I object to this spreading over 4 or 5 projects - and would ask anyone concerned about this to go to the talk page death project of which this is the scope and issue - and nothing really to do with this project SatuSuro 07:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I object to this being discussed on wikiproject death which will generally only be on the watchlist of wikiproject death members and hence biased. Please feel free to discuss it with me at User talk:Polargeo/death. Polargeo (talk) 10:10, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

serbian political parties deletion

A great many articles on Serbian political parties have been proposed for deletion via PROD as being unsourced: they are listed at [1] under January 26. And they are in fact unsourced, and I do not have the knowledge to source them. They were mostly added by User:Electionworld, who seems to be no longer active. He must have had soime source, but I do not have any idea what it is, nor can I work with the necessary language. All that's necessary to do is have some source that shows more than just mere legal existence, add it, and remove the prod tag, with an edit summary saying you're addingq a source. As you know, any language will do, print or online. DGG ( talk ) 23:48, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I have sourced a few of them and I urge other project members to source more. A number are inactive right now, but all or nearly all deserve articles. A useful English-language source I have found is book Serbia under Milošević: politics in the 1990s by Robert Thomas that could be searched for party names. For the list, see [2]. Nikola (talk) 11:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

North Kosovo+

Some albanians (they have their albanian signs on their pages) have been deleting things how serbia does not control north kosovo,saying how its pov or some other crap, see what some of you could do about it, certainly not all the info they are deleting is wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=North_Kosovo&action=history northkosovo editor is ok!

I dont care much about serbia but christianity in kosovo must be preserved.

Here's another similar problem, so any serbs here do your job on your people or not: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Serbs_in_Kosovo&action=history

GDP of Serbian cities 1991

I have some very interesting information on my talk page of a number of cities in the former Yugoslavia and their GDP per capita. Its pretty interesting because it shows how developed Serbia was in comparison to the other republics, as well as how developed particular cities were in relation to other cities in the former Yugoslavia. I'll post a couple here but you can go to my talk page to see the ones I have.

With the average in Yugoslavia as 100% the Republics GDP per capita went like this

Slovenia 180%

Croatia 128%

Serbia 93%

-Vojvodina 129%

-Central Serbia 96%

-Kosovo 33%

Bosnia 69%

Macedonia 65%

Montenero 78%

Its pretty interesting cause you can see how developed Serbia was before 10 years of sanctions, the NATO bombing, and the mismanaged reforms to capitalism which undoubtedly destroyed much of the economy. what's even more interesting is the cities in Serbia itself.

Belgrade 147%

Novi Sad 172%

Nis 110%

Pristina 70%

Kragujevac 114%

Subotica 133%

I'll compare this with some other main cities in the other republics

Zagreb 188%

Sarajevo 133%

Skopje 90%

Ljubljana 260%

Podgorica 87%

Split 137%

Rijeka 213%

Osijek 138%

Banja Luka 97%

So some interesting statistics there if anyone wants to use them. There are more on my talk page along with the link if you want to cite it. Its interesting because if you compare Serbia's economy with the other republics it was definetly a lot more developed than Bosnia and Macedonia and although poorer than Croatia and Slovenia, it definetly had a strong economy before the war which was devasted completely in the 1990's.

Yugo91aesop (talk) 22:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

That is very nice from you, but I am not sure your intention here. You didn´t knew it? I lived in the 1980s in Belgrade, I traveled around, and, as the majority of people, I know very well all of this. Who said that Serbia was weak? In what position were you expecting to see Serbia, worste then 3th? Vojvodina was even better than Croatia. We were proud of Belgrade in general. Only the newer young generations, that only lived the sanctions period may think about Serbia as weak as it has been recently. In the 1980s (but also before) Serbian economy, and general economical indicators were very much similar to a large number of regions in Spain, Central and Southern Italy, Greece, Ireland or Portugal (where I actualy live), and way better than any regions of the former Eastern block countries, and even some from the Western Europe. I´m not sure if you know, but in 1990, when the elections were preparing, and prior to the wars, there was a serious talk about Yugoslavia being the next to enter to the EEC, todays European Union. So, it´s nice for you to remember us of this, but I think it is not here, in the Serbian project, that you need to point this out. All older Serbs, from 30s on, know this (I supose). If this information is new for you, please, at least avoid to show surprised publicaly, because this way you are embaracing many other Serbs wich know this quite well. :) FkpCascais (talk) 21:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Well I think that is the reason we need these stats here, because the younger generations do not know this. Its very important to have this information public because it shows how much more advanced the Serbian economy was before the 1990's. The fact that today our economy is only slightly worse off than Bulgaria's or Romania's even though Serbia went through a decade of sanctions and 78 days of bombing which targeted every single city and destroyed an estimated amount of 30 billion dollars worth of infrastructure shows to investors abroad that the Serbian economy today has not reached its full potential. War-torn regions are not an attractive area of investment while there is a war going on obviously or when theres political instability, but if the government and economy is stable then these areas become very attractive. Yugo91aesop (talk) 02:29, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Of course, you´re right. Don´t forget mentioning that the bombing unfortunatelly destroyed almost the entire industrial sector, or what was left of a decade of sanctions... It is very sad to me that younger generations don´t know this... Also, one more thing, beside the economy not having reached its full potential (its quite enourmosly far from that), it also didn´t reached it back then, so it means that it could (theoretically) go even much better. But, I find also a problem in a people´s mentality. People in Serbia tend to exagerate:"We are the best!" or "We are nothing"!, and the trouth is somewhere in between. But I trully feel sad that younger generations are so badly informed about our quite recent past... It was not that long before, and much of it still remains as some kind of unfinished economical work. FkpCascais (talk) 03:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Draža Mihajlović

I´m urging some help in putting this article in a NPOV point. I´m currently experiencing an edit war with a Croatian editor about some minor wording, that he insists in keeping, this way putting him in the same line of collaborators, as Nazy Pavelić. Can someone please help solving the edit-war? Unapred hvala. FkpCascais (talk) 19:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Nomination

Žiča Monastery, traditional royal church of Serbian kings

Just to inform you that Žiča photo has been nominated for Featured picture.

Page is here.

Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Žiča

Spread the word. --Tadija (talk) 13:09, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Translation needed

An WP:ANI report on User:Иван Богданов needs someone who can read Serbian. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Possible use of userpage for some sort of attack in Serbian. Thankyou. Polargeo (talk) 17:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Merge of Republic_of_Serbia_(federal)

Someone nominated Republic_of_Serbia_(federal) to be merged into Serbia. just letting you guys know. see This page for discussion. Thank You. Gman124 ^talk 03:54, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Genealogy source wanted

Guys, Mikhail Andreyevich Miloradovich needs some attention. IPs from the Balkans regularly append his name with unsourced Rabrenovich (in various permutations: от Рабреновича, Rabrenovich i Dubrava etc.) and fancy titles like Princely Count (which is the English rendition of German Gefürsteter Graf).

The case of Miloradovich himself is quite clear: neither he, nor his father, nor the imperial government ever used a double-barreled surname in public. He had the title of count (граф, graf) of the Russian Empire since 1813. But his grandfather and earlier ancestors could very well belong to the family so favored by IPs, and maybe the "princely count" bit is not as nonsensical as it seems (maybe his ancestors indeed had valid claims to some German Fuerstmark?).

Could you please check his ancestry through genealogy RS and, if positive, append the section on family roots.

Regards, NVO (talk) 12:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Afd for Albanian Colonization of Kosovo

This article is being considered for deletion, and anyone who has anything to say should point to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian colonisation of Kosovo. Thank you.Alexikoua (talk) 19:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Omladinski

I made OSD Beograd and OKK Beograd articles just now. Just a heads up to you folk. (LAz17 (talk) 04:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)).

.yu -> .rs etc

We still have a considerable amount of unfixed old .yu external links. Here are some simple searches that may help find them:

• Special:Search/.ac.yu
• Special:Search/.co.yu
• Special:Search/.edu.yu
• Special:Search/.gov.yu
• Special:Search/.org.yu

Please fix up anything you can find. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 21:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

The User:FrescoBot did some work on this previously, there are useful links there showing the remaining broken .yu links. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject tag

Great User Starzynka created hundreds of Serbia-related articles. But those articles are not tagged with {{WikiProject Serbia}}, so we should do that. Find articles regarding Serbian town and villages, and tag them. --Tadija^speaks 19:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

BOT?

Maybe i have better solution? As all of those articles are in the Category:Serbia geography stubs, maybe we should create bot that will add tags semi-automatically? --Tadija^speaks 19:39, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK

Museum of Vuk and Dositej appeared today on Main page! just to let you know! :) --Tadija^speaks 18:14, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Xenobot Mk V to tag articles in project scope and/or auto-assess unassessed articles

A request has been made at User:Xenobot/R#WP:SERBIA to tag & auto-assess articles in the scope of this project based on these categories and/or auto-assess the project's unassessed articles.

To auto-assess, Xenobot Mk V (talk · contribs) looks for a {{stub}} template on the article, or inherits the class rating from other project banners (see here for further details).

Feel free to raise any questions or concerns regarding this process. The task will commence after 72 hours if there are no objections.

–xeno^talk 14:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

•  Task complete. 2547 edits. –xeno^talk 13:30, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons

The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 32,665 as of May 16. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Serbia/Unreferenced BLPs. As of May 17 you have approximately 39 articles to be referenced. The list of all other WikiProject UBLPs can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 17:10, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I had contributed with the football related articles (mostly Serbs, but not only), here is the list of all articles I referneced: User:FkpCascais/List of saved unreferenced football biographies. FkpCascais (talk) 20:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Move to replace the word "Serbs" in Wikipedia categories

Following the discussion here which resulted in the replacement of the container category "Serbs" with Category:Serbian people (for people of Serbia) and Category:Serb people (for ethnic Serbs), there appears to be a move to replace "Serbs" for "Serb people" throughout the Wikipedia categories (if the way the issue has been dealt with in similar cases in anything to go by). In the discussion taken place here, which would have seen the Category:Serbian Austro-Hungarians replaced by Category:Austro-Hungarian Serb people. I have suggested a change instead to Category:Austro-Hungarian Serbs. Davshul (talk) 15:11, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Translation needed at Duško Dukić

Can someone do a quick verification that the source I found actually translates to support the content in Duško Dukić‎ and that the source meets our WP:RS guidelines? Thanks! Active Banana (talk) 14:17, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

http://poptoplista.com/

I work primarily on the record charts, keeping track of what charts are reliable and which aren't. I just saw a link to http://poptoplista.com/ which, on the face of it, would appear to be an airplay chart. My question is whether it is an airplay chart for a single station or network, or whether it combines airplay across multiple networks. Can anyone that actually understands the language point me at a source that would explain?—Kww(talk) 19:15, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

List of bridges in Serbia

I created yesterday new article.

List of bridges in Serbia

Please, can some of you, guys go, and check it, and write on article's Talk page which new bridges should be added, and i will create pages for that bridges. Little cooperation! :) Be good, pozdravlja vas Tadija^speaks 19:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Serbian Cyrillic

When writting the cyrillic form of the names on the articles I have been using Serbian Cyrillic, but I see that many times simply Serbian has been used. I find wrong using simply "Serbian" because that way is given the impression that the name of the article, usually written in Serbian Latin script, is of some other language, and only the cyrillic version is "Serbian" (language). For exemple, if we write, Dejan Stanković (Serbian: Дejaн Cтaнкoвић) , we are obviously by that giving the wrong impression that Serbian language version is the one in cyrillic, and the latin (article name) is then in some other language. Any touths on this? FkpCascais (talk) 04:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm obviously not a member of this project but from the point of view of someone who often reads articles related to Serbian people, I'd say Serbian Cyrillic is more appropriate. Titles of biographic articles are usually already using the spelling as it is used in the Latin script version, and that version is obviously no less Serbian. Using the tag "Serbian" for the cyrillic version would imply that Serbian language is written only in cyrillic script, which a) is simply not true, and b) would lead to the paradoxical conclusion that the article's title (for example, let's say Dejan Stanković) is therefore neither in English (as it uses diacritics) or in Serbian (as it is spelled using Latin script). If one would hypothetically insist on claiming that only the Cyrillic version is true Serbian, then article titles would require transliteration, as is already the case with Russian or Bulgarian, and Dejan Stanković would have to be spelled something along the lines of Deyan Stankovich. Now that would surely be absurd. Timbouctou (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. It should either be

• Dejan Stanković (Serbian Cyrillic: Дejaн Cтaнкoвић)

or perhaps preferably shortened to

• Dejan Stanković (Cyrillic: Дejaн Cтaнкoвић)

After all, the first spelling is Serbian, so why would we need to say explicitly that the second is Serbian? Doing so still implies that we're somehow also talking about something which isn't Serbian. For anyone who isn't clear on the concept, the link would still be to Serbian Cyrillic.

— kwami (talk) 21:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

No-one's objected in almost 2 weeks, so I'm starting to switch over. There are 4580 articles to go through! I'm switching to 'Cyrillic' since both are Serbian. Please let me know if that shorter form is a problem. — kwami (talk) 06:34, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Here's an article that can maybe left as is: Bosnia and Herzegovina. It would be nice to shrink it down to the name of the over-all language, but that would probably produce a firestorm. — kwami (talk) 06:41, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not changing instances of {{lang-sr}}, which have the same effect if used improperly, as at Aleksandar Dunđerović. — kwami (talk) 07:27, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Radovanjski Lug

Radovanjski Lug had requested a copy-edit. Someone with knowledge about this topic please check it. My edited version and the original text. I have left notes on the article's talk page. Thanks, Davtra (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Bosnian Genocide

Guys, don't you think the article should be added to the scope of WikiProject Serbia? It is in the project Yugoslavia, but I guess Serbian "factor" is relevant to the article and it is currently being edited out of its scope. I think it worths paying attention to the edits. Aregakn (talk) 00:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Most popular Serbian articles

There is a new tool which can produce a monthly list of top most viewed pages for articles which fall in the scope of a WikiProject. I believe it would be very useful to help establish article improvement priorities. An example of how this would look like is here. I will make a formal request. --Tadija^speaks 09:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Bubanj Memorial Park

Just now, as we speak on Wikipedia main page, as part of DYK, you can see Bubanj Memorial Park as first article with image. Just to let you know! :) --Tadija^speaks 17:09, 16 July 2010 (UTC)