Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Michelin Guide task force/Style Guide

Introductory sentence for Michelin-starred list pages

Most list pages on Wikipedia follow a consistent format but I'm not aware of any guideline that officially outlines an introductory sentence specifically for list pages.

I would propose that all list articles begin with, "This article contains a[n] [in]complete list of Michelin-starred restaurants in XXX, with XXX representing the region being discussed by the list article. This would properly reference the article title and link to the Michelin Guide and the region being discussed. Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the above to the style guide. Feel free to edit or discuss if you feel otherwise. Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I was unaware of MOS:BOLDLINKAVOID when writing the above and have since updated the style guide accordingly. We'll need to update the list articles accordingly in order to be able to achieve featured status. Expandinglight5 (talk) 15:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Blank cells vs. N/A template

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Michelin Guide task force

 – --Another Believer _(Talk) 03:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

In lists of Michelin-starred restaurants, should we leave cells empty or use Template:N/a to show when stars were not awarded? Whatever we decide, I recommend we seek consistency. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:01, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Are there other lists that have FL status that we can reference? My inclination is to simply leave blank. I would agree that it should be consistent and what's agreed should go in the style guide. Expandinglight5 (talk) 20:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I've looked a bit further into this. The Ireland list is a good example of N/A vs. Blank cells. Both on a tablet and on a desktop, the table looks better with the N/A than a blank cell. Compare that with another region such as NYC. I would propose we use the N/A. Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Consistent Section Name for List pages

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Michelin Guide task force

 – --Another Believer _(Talk) 04:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

This should be part of the style guide once we create one but what should the Section name be titled? There are multiple versions on various Michelin-starred list pages. The following are in use: List, Year range (i.e. 2019-2024), Year range list, (i.e. 2019-2024 list), Alphabetical list, Michelin Star List, Restaurant list, List of restaurants, Alphabetic list.

Some pages do have multiple sections so in some instances there are multiple tables with year ranges. Thoughts on the labeling and syntax?

Expandinglight5 (talk) 05:35, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the above to the style guide. Feel free to edit or discuss if you feel otherwise. Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:53, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

First year on list highlighting

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Michelin Guide task force

 – --Another Believer _(Talk) 04:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Some Michelin-starred lists such as Florida and NYC have highlighting of restaurants in their first year on the Michelin-starred list. What is everyone's opinion? Its practice is fairly inconsistent among the list pages and seems a bit redundant. Perhaps this is related to accessability? Expandinglight5 (talk) 05:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Personally I feel it should be removed. As you said, the 'first year' highlight is redundant since that can be surmised from the chart itself. Open to thoughts feeling otherwise, though. Dtmich24 (talk) 14:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Unless there's an accessibility purpose I'm not considering, this seems unnecessary to me. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree. I would propose we leave this conversation open in case other users want to respond. For the time being, I've noted in the style guide that this is unnecessary. We can revise if other feedback gives a compelling reason to keep the highlighting. Expandinglight5 (talk) 17:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

See also sections

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Michelin Guide task force

 – --Another Believer _(Talk) 04:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

A lot of lists of Michelin-starred restaurants (example) have lengthy See also sections. Should we include links that also appear in Template:Lists of restaurants and Template:Michelin Corporation at the bottom of the page? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:38, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I'm not seeing in possibly relevant guidelines (MOS:REPEATLINK and MOS:NOTSEEALSO) that such links are explicitly prohibited. On the other hand, I think you could make arguments along the spirit of both of those guidelines that if a See also section is too long, those kinds of repeated links should be the first to go. seefooddiet (talk) 19:32, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm also conflicted. Simply listing every list link doesn't make sense but you could argue to list other related lists in the same country/region such as Vancouver suggesting other Canadian pages like Toronto. However, the US has many regions and perhaps that is too lengthy (and this will likely get longer as Michelin expands into more markets)? I'm inclined to remove except for perhaps 3-star listing pages where relevant as I'm not sure it's intuitive to expect to find that in the Michelin/restaurant template. List of Michelin-starred restaurants in New York City and List of Michelin-starred restaurants in Las Vegas seem to make the most sense. Thoughts?

Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Totals?

A few tables on the list pages have totals which show a count of a number of restaurants in that year that have a rating. What are your thoughts on this being part of the suggested styling? If there is consensus, does anyone know of a Wikipedia formula that will sum the column rather than manually counting and populating? Expandinglight5 (talk) 17:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps it would make sense for totals to go at the bottom of the table in the row before sources? Dtmich24 (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to exclude totals as column counts will change from the time of publication as restaurants may close. Thoughts? Expandinglight5 (talk) 18:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Chefs in list tables

What is everyone's thoughts about listing chefs in the table? Vietnam is a good example. On a 3-star list, most of the chefs are likely notable but on most lists, like the Vietnam list, the majority of chefs aren't notable. Expandinglight5 (talk) 22:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Personally I think chefs could probably be left out - since the star is awarded to the restaurant and not the Chef per Michelin. Also the consideration that by adding a column for the Chef, we'd be increasing the width of the table and increasing the frequency of dividing those lists up by years. Dtmich24 (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I tend to agree. Chefs should not be included in ordinary lists. What about 3-star lists? I think there is a higher likelihood of notability. Optional is my inclination. Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we should include chefs in lists. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:21, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Updated the style guide accordingly. Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:07, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Table Formatting

What are people's opinions on making some updates to the Table format as seen in this edit on the Vancouver page? I reverted for now to keep to the style we've been using, but I like the idea of saying 'Reference' instead of 'Source' at the bottom, and possibly bolding and making the restaurant name column darker (though i think it should remain left-aligned instead of centred). Open to thoughts! Dtmich24 (talk) 22:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

"Reference" instead of "source" makes sense. I'll update the style guide. We shouldn't boldlink per MOS:BOLDLINKAVOID. Expandinglight5 (talk) 19:20, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Order of lists

Are we in agreement that for Michelin-starred list pages that have multiple tables covering different decades, that they should be listed in reverse order. If there are three tables: 2021 - 2024, 2011 - 2020 and 2001- 2010 that they are listed with the most recent at the top of the article?

2021 – 2024 lists
2011 – 2020 lists
2001 – 2010 lists Expandinglight5 (talk) 18:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Definitely - fully agree on this. Dtmich24 (talk) 20:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I've updated the style guide accordingly.

Expandinglight5 (talk) 22:15, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Endash in location column

This is a minor thing, but in the Location column (example: List of Michelin-starred restaurants in Vancouver), I propose we use endashes between the city and neighborhood instead of regular dashes. Thoughts? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:42, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:27, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I've updated the style guide as well.

Expandinglight5 (talk) 15:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Got it. I'll make changes where I see them. Dtmich24 (talk) 20:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)