Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2015 July 18

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July 18

Air conditioning

Hi all - I live in a two-story apartment with central air conditioning. However, the second floor (where the two bedrooms and the bathroom are) is a converted attic, so it has no A/C vents. The result is that my downstairs level gets air conditioned perfectly, but the upstairs remains practically as hot as if I had the A/C turned off - it's basically a sudden transition right at the top of the stairs. Basically, I'm looking for some MacGyver-esque solution to circulate the A/C to my upstairs as well. Unfortunately, the circumstances make a couple of the more obvious solutions impossible or suboptimal:

• Each of the upstairs rooms only has one window, so I don't really want to get a window unit and lose all window functionality in one of them
• There is no overhang over my windows, so I can't do anything that involves leaving windows open without risking getting everything drenched when it rains

So far, the best I've come up with is to buy a really big box fan and place it on the stairs facing upward, hoping it will circulate enough cold air to the upstairs to make a difference. Does this seem likely to work? And are there any other options I'm not thinking of? Thanks. -Elmer Clark (talk) 06:00, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Not very MacGyver, but they do sell portable AC units that sit inside and have only a minimal window footprint (e.g. [1]). That wouldn't obstruct much of the view. They also start with an okay window opening shield and with a little MacGyver-ing you could improve that. If you really want full-on MacGyver, running some interior duct work could help (more than a fan at the base of the stairs anyway). Ducts that runs along the interior ceiling of the stairwell might work. Assuming your construction options are limited (e.g. rented apartment), you'd probably end up with some fairly obvious and ugly looking exposed ducts, but depending on taste, that might be acceptable. Dragons flight (talk) 06:44, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

According to some tests I've read (Consumer Reports, IIRC) those indoor AC units with the ducting to outside are expensive and don't work all that well. Anything you can do to improve air circulation would likely be more cost effective. It would be interesting to get a length of that expandable aluminum duct used for clothes dryers and try forcing air through it. But ordinary box fans would probably be more practical. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:36, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Funnily enough I was looking in to portable ACs about a week ago since I came across them and was confused how they work as most pictures are highly misleading and show the AC without any ducting. Anyway during my research I came across [2] which does suggest they aren't generally very good. Nil Einne (talk) 15:02, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• Who pays for the electricity? Can you put a box fan at your door as well as at the bottom of the steps? Have you talked to your landlord, or checked with the local housing board about relevant regulations? μηδείς (talk) 23:26, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all of the responses so far everyone! Sounds like a couple of box fans might be my best bet. I was mostly just concerned that they wouldn't circulate the air well enough to make any difference if I didn't have any windows open. To answer Medeis's questions: I pay for the electricity, but am ok with paying more during the summer as long as it's not outrageous. My landlord was very upfront about this before I moved in, and frankly I'm not sure I'd even want them to "properly" set up the central A/C for the upstairs if there's another alternative...my rent is quite a bit lower than average for the area and I suspect this is a big part of why. And there's no legal requirement to provide any air conditioning at all where I live so they're already going well above and beyond the legal minimums. -Elmer Clark (talk) 00:33, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

StuRat might be the one to consult here on the physical whatnots. I have normally paid for my own electricity when I have rented apartments in NYC, but when i have rented rooms it was included in the rent. In either situation, buying an efficient AC for $200 has made sense. It's a matter of budgeting, so you have to decide, since we can't calculate your electric charges. My experience has been that if the house is AC'ed and you can put a box fan in your window, simply blow the hot air out of your room and the cold air will rise into it. That borders on professional legal, electrical, and housing advice, so I'd still look in to it with the local housing authority. μηδείς (talk) 02:24, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Problems I see:

1) The hot air is up high, where it wants to stay, and the cold air is down low, where it wants to stay. Had the reverse been true, then a couple box fans blowing the cold air down the stairs might work.

2) The total cooling capacity might not be enough, even if you were able to evenly distribute it.

My suggestions:

A) Use box fans in the upstairs windows, one blowing out, and one in, both doors open, to cool the upstairs with outside air, when it's cool and dry out (usually at night). I've made masks for my fans, cut out of plastic sheeting, so that only a circular hole the diameter of the fan blades is open, with the rest of the window blocked. This prevents backflow of air, keeps out some rain, and provides a bit more privacy. The fan blowing out is likely fine even in the rain, but the one blowing in you will need to monitor. And no, you can't just have fan(s) blowing out, or the negative pressure in the house will do bad things, like suck exhaust back down your water heater chimney. You can place something waterproof on the floor by the fans, as an extra protection against rain. Total cost should be under $50.

B) Add a downstairs sleeping area. This can just be a fold-out couch, for example. There will be times when it's too hot, humid, or rainy out to use the fans upstairs, and on those few occasions, you need a way to sleep in the air conditioned portion of the house. StuRat (talk) 02:43, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

I should also add my personal experience. I have a window A/C unit in my bedroom, and am currently trying to cool the entire floor with it. I am using two box fans, one to blow cool air out of the bedroom into the hall, and another to blow it out of the hall into the dining room. This is only slightly effective. It's currently cool in the bedroom but 82° F where I am, far from it. And this is without fighting the elevation difference you have. So, this is why I don't think your approach will work. StuRat (talk) 17:08, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Another approach (if you'd otherwise consider it) is to diet for weight loss - this tends to lower metabolic rate, making warm temperatures more bearable. But IMHO the idea that you can't leave your windows open but you can run AC all the time is one of those crazy things that give developed countries a bad name! Surely there must be something that can be rigged to deal with a little rain, and then you can enjoy some peace and quiet. Though really, window-ology can be pretty complicated ... you can get a lot out of them if you can open and close them at the right times. Maybe, in the interest of world peace, someone has to invent a plastic fold-up shade that can be hung outside the window, closes when it is wetted, and can be set to close on a timer also. If you could throw in some of that variable silvering (to block direct sunlight) that is only used now by Boeing so that passengers no longer get to decide when they want to look out the window, you'd be golden. Get cracking, MacGyver... Wnt (talk) 12:31, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

You need to circulate the air. So, you need one spot where air moves freely from upstairs to downstairs and another where it moves freely in the opposite direction. It sounds like you have one opening between the two floors. You need two. Then, you need at least one (I suggest two) fans to force the air to circulate. This will get the process started, but it will take time to adjust the air flow to get all the rooms upstairs in the cool air current. Why won't one box fan work? Assume you set it to blow the cold air from downstairs to upstairs. It is like blowing up a balloon. You can only blow so much air in there until the walls need to expand to take more. The walls of the house won't expand, so you will hit a point that the fan spins, but the cold air is just forced right back downstairs again. The same thing happens if you try to blow the hot air downstairs. It hits a point that it just turns around and heads right back upstairs. With two holes, you feed cold air into the upstairs while pull hot air out. If you go this route, I suggest getting variable speed fans. They change speed every couple seconds and help break up the current of air. That creates turbulence, which helps get the cold air into the corners. 209.149.113.45 (talk) 13:42, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

What happens there isn't back pressure - it's just that the cold air is cooler than the warm air and so is denser and will naturally sink and pool where it can, which may involve running back down the steps again. Anyone who's burned something on the oven has probably seen how stratified the layers of air in a room can be. Anyway, I *think* that by fine-tuning fan design, you might be able to increase or decrease the amount of turbulence produced, so that hypothetically you could shoot a nearly laminar flow of air up to the upper room's ceiling, then have it mix thoroughly with the uppermost layer of air, and as mixed lukewarm air it doesn't sink back again so you haven't wasted any power. Has anyone engineered such applications? (though honestly I don't know who would, or why) Wnt (talk) 13:51, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

The closest you can purchase "off the shelf" is a box fan specifically designed for this purpose. It looks like any other box fan, but the speed of the fan keeps changing. I had one when I lived in a townhouse. It was clearly effective. Just place it at the top of the stairs and the temperature upstairs was better. Then, I cut a hole in the floor in the corner of both upstairs rooms and placed a vent cover in them. I cut a hole in the ceiling of the rooms below and placed a vent cover in there (I duct-taped them to a small section of duct to keep the bottom one from just falling out. This allowed air to flow better. Then, the temperature upstairs was the same as the temperature downstairs by feel. According to the thermometer upstairs and downstairs, upstairs was 2 degrees F hotter during the day, but the same temperature at night. I then began turning off the fan at night because it wasn't really needed and the constantly changing fan speed kept me awake. 209.149.113.45 (talk) 14:12, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks again all. Sounds like there's not likely to be any particularly good solution that doesn't involve blocking off at least one window. I'll probably grab a couple of box fans and do some experimenting...worst case scenario, I can just use them as regular fans I suppose. -Elmer Clark (talk) 00:04, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Also, in case you don't know it, window A/C units can be removed when not in use. I only have mine in for June, July , and August. The rest of the year I have full use of those windows. (I suggest sealing them in an airtight box when not in use, because experience tells me they are full of spiders which I don't want coming out into my home. 9 months later, when I am ready to install it again, the spiders are all dead.) StuRat (talk) 14:32, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

What else do I need for a virtual way to touch a dragon?

I'm throwing a party for my nephew. He's a fan of dragons. So I have an idea to set up an impressive show for his birthday party where he'll be able to touch a dragon. I know that touching pressurized air can feel like a solid object, when a hand makes contact with it. So in addition to pressurized air, what else do I need for the virtual touching of a dragon? NPham2005 (talk) 07:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Looking online, it appears that once again it is possible to buy pet baby alligators. It only makes sense that a young human should get a young dragon, no? And when it gets too big and mean to keep in the house you can always flush it down to the sewers.... :) Wnt (talk) 20:03, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Where is Count Iblis? μηδείς (talk) 02:17, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Count Iblis agreed to selfban themselves from the RD. As it came on the heels of an ANI discussion, the selfban can only be lifted if they apply to AN//I as per their agreement. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive890#Proposal to Topic-Ban User:Count Iblis from Reference Desk for more. So please don't discuss Count Iblis further here, and particularly don't link to them, since it's unfair to ask someone who is unable to easily respond. Nil Einne (talk) 14:57, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

How old is your nephew ? If he's young enough, I suggest a lizard of some type. You can just tell your nephew "he's a baby dragon who hasn't grown his wings yet". Now, where to rent a lizard might be a problem. Not sure if a pet store would be willing to do that. I suppose you could always buy one, at a place with a generous return policy, then return it later. (If this makes you feel guilty, you can buy something else to assuage your guilt.) StuRat (talk) 02:49, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, these suggestions are much easier to arrange than the virtual option of a holographic image with jets of air, but don't rent a Komodo dragon. Dbfirs 06:31, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Holographic image with jets of air? That's perfect! The thing is, though, how do I set up the hologram? NPham2005 (talk) 11:31, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

See holography. But you do realize this is all rather ambitious for a birthday party, don't you ? I see weeks of work to set it all up, at least. StuRat (talk) 13:22, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

I was a programmer for a job similar to this in 2009. It was a "proof of concept". The hologram was just a rolling apple. The equipment to create the hologram was as cheap as possible, because it was only a proof of concept. In the end, it was just shy of $800,000. Are there cheaper holograms? Yes, but not 360 degree open air holograms. Shining laser pointers in fog is cheaper, but looks terrible when you are close enough to touch the image. As for the exact equipment used? I cannot say. It was paid for by a very rich illusionist who keeps it as a "toy" on one of his personal islands and I had to sign a NDA to work on the project. I can discuss that it was done, but not how it was done. I do not know how much the two engineers were paid. I was paid $30,000 to program the animation of the apple rolling, which wasn't too difficult. Then, I was paid $90,000 to program the interface to interact with a hand sensed by IR sensors and the moving hologram. Also, I had to keep the virtual shadow on the LCD table under the apple. I spent three months working on aligning the air jets with the apple, but some things simply couldn't be done. The air jets must be placed around the perimeter. If you curl up your hand, it is impossible to blow air through your fingers to your palm. I can only mention that particular problem because it wasn't solved. So, it only worked well if you kept your fingers perfectly straight. I assume that you don't plan to spend around $1,000,000 for something like a rolling apple display. You want something much more complicated and, likely, in far less time than the two years spent developing the apple. As with all development, you can get it done faster if you throw more money at it. So, I figure it will cost closer to $4,000,000. That is a lot more than the cost of renting a "baby dragon" lizard. 209.149.113.45 (talk) 13:33, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for lending some numbers to my assertion that this is not a feasible project for a kid's birthday party. StuRat (talk) 00:16, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

pipeline spill

Regarding Long Lake oil line spill,why doesnt the flow detection system stop the pumps before 5 milion litre,s has gone by — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.69.144.57 (talk) 07:43, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

It should have been detected; they don't know yet what went wrong. --174.88.133.35 (talk) 22:04, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Magnitude 9 megaquake

According to the New Yorker, if there was a magnitude 9 earthquake, a tsunami would hit Seattle and Portland afterwards. How is that possible, given that Portland is inland? Also, wouldn't Seattle be shielded by puget sound? Wouldn't the puget sound be too shallow for huge tsunamis to occur?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.79.50 (talk) 11:23, 18 July 2015 (UTC) I also saw an online video from fox about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.79.50 (talk) 11:45, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Neither place would see significant harm from a tsunami, but both cities would have issues with soil liquefaction and collapse of unreinforced masonry buildings, as well as transportation and utility disruptions. See this article [3] in Slate for a critical discussion of the New Yorker article. Acroterion (talk) 12:05, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

The New Yorker article discusses the possibility of a magnitude 9.2 or larger earthquake on the Cascadia subduction zone. Our article gives a good description of the processes that would come into play. Note that such an earthquake would be twice as strong as the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami. Portland is on the Columbia River, with the lowest parts barely above sea level. If you have seen Youtube videos of the tsunami flowing up Japanese rivers, you can get some sense of what could happen. Looie496 (talk) 13:38, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

What does it mean area of significant slip?the article on cascadia subduction zone shows a map and the shade represents an area of significant slip.Also, I seem to be getting two contradictory answers from the refdesk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.79.50 (talk) 19:23, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

The experts are going to disagree on hypothetical questions like this, as much of it depends not only on the size of the quake but the precise location and depth. As for a shallow bay, that can make a tsunami worse, as all the oceanic water pushed into it must raise in elevation due to the shallow bottom. StuRat (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

But there's islands separating puget sound from the strait of juan de fuca.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.79.50 (talk) 21:12, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

You'd need more than a few islands to stop a tsunami, you would need a strip of land high enough that the tsunami can't go over it, so maybe 50 feet high, and contiguous, so the tsunami can't go around it. Think of it as a river. Could you stop a river with some stones sticking up out of the river ? StuRat (talk) 15:36, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

I wonder if Vancouver would get hit by a tsunami. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.79.50 (talk) 09:30, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Assuming that you mean the Canadian city, Vancouver island would provide considerable protection, but water could still flow up the straits to cause damage. Dbfirs 14:07, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Space time creation

If I alone suddenly popped up out of nowhere/nothingness into my own empty universe, How much spacetime would I create on my own?--81.147.170.83 (talk) 17:14, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

What a bizarre question. HIGHLY hypothetical and lacks real valid substance. To answer your question: "you would create the amount of space-time that you displace relative to your mass". I am not qualified but thought I'd give it ago. Who knows maybe the great nimur or jayron will take some time to answer this. Void burn (talk) 17:35, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know how to answer this question except to tell you that it isn't well formed. My advice is pretty much the same as always for this type of question: the best way to really understand weird modern physics is to start with a solid formal education in conventional physics. This is hard work; but it's absolutely necessary. A lot of people get really enthusiastic about weird and exotic cosmology - probably because they read a popular science article or watched a documentary - and they want to dive into details... but, they haven't yet learned (and perhaps they are not capable of learning) the formalisms that allow us to study these details scientifically. Many people want to go straight to big bang cosmology, but they want to skip over ten years of basic math and physics! The OP's question is a perfect example of this. They are using some words that are related to science ("universe," "spacetime") and there is a hint of some question about cosmological origin concept - but the OP's question is so distant from anything we can answer scientifically, all I can conclude is that they are very confused. These words have meaning in physics, but the OP has not formed a coherent problem-statement out of the words. It's ... almost echolalic.

Our articles on cosmology may interest you. It will help your understanding if you get a good book; and in the future, the OP would get more mileage by asking us for help finding good resources (instead of playing imaginative games or asking for answers to brain-teasers). There are many places where unrestrained imagination has merit; but not in physics: in science, you have to learn the basics before you can just let your mind run wild. After you have mastered the basics, then you can apply your imagination to do something productive. If you don't like thinking in this way - tempering your creativity using learned rules - then maybe science isn't for you. Nimur (talk) 08:09, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

What units of space and time do you want the answer in? AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:42, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

I think we can closely approximate the answer if we model spacetime as wood, creation/"popping" as chucking, OP with a woodchuck. Wnt (talk) 20:06, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Approximate answers? Pah! I can give an exact answer... How much spacetime? All of it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:07, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, so if I can arrange to pop out of nowhere/nothing somewhere other than this universe, I would have all the space I always wanted and all the time to do everything I wanted in my universe? --81.147.170.83 (talk) 16:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

As long as breathing is not required. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:32, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Would you care to join me?? At least that would shut you up!!--81.147.170.83 (talk) 16:35, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

You're the one that raised the absurd premise. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:18, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Richard Owens west Canada expedition

19:00, 18 July 2015 (UTC)66.192.172.132 (talk)What is known of Owens west Canada expedition? What is known of M.W.Bartlett who was an agent for Owens on the west Canada expedition?

To clarify - is this the Richard Owens after whom the Owens Valley is named? I'm afraid we don't have an article on him - all we have is brief details of his military career at California Battalion#Battalion Organization. But this may assist others in finding more information. Tevildo (talk) 20:43, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

We also have Owens Peak who seems to be the same man; "an Ohio born explorer (aka "Owings"), who accompanied John C. Frémont on his third expedition to California (1845–1946). Fremont also named a valley, river and lake for Owens, whom he considered 'cool, brave and of good judgment'. Owens served as Captain in Fremont's California Battalion during the Mexican-American War, and was California's Secretary of State during Fremont's brief tenure as Governor (1847)". Unfortunately, the link that references the last sentence doesn't go to the right page any more. Kit Carson Days, 1809-1868: Adventures in the Path of Empire, Volume 2 by Edwin Legrand (p. 926) says, "He is reported as doing a merchandise business in Santa Fe in the Fifties; and a Richard Owens was the last auditor (1850) of the territory of New Mexico under military rule. The place and date of Owens' death seem not to be of record". However, this Richard Owens seems to have made his name in California rather than Canada. Alansplodge (talk) 16:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

According to this article, William Fitzwilliam Owen published two books, one under the name "Richard Owen", and one under the name "William Fitzwilliam". Could he be the OP's "Richard Owens"? There are, of course, several other Richard Owens to choose from, but none of them obviously associated with exploration. Tevildo (talk) 18:02, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

baby spots

Some animals are born with spots but lose them: e.g. some deer, some cats. Is there a word for that phenomenon? —Tamfang (talk) 21:04, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

One term is Moulting. Cats are listed, deer are not. However, this referred to the process in deer as mo(u)lting. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:34, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

• We don't seem to have an article on juvenile coloration (I may be wrong, there should be one). There are several reasons for it. Spotting is usually to camouflage young that sit still in shade-dappled areas, like fawns and lion cubs. Some birds simply lack the adult coloration that marks (especially male) gender. Many primates have blondism in juveniles or red hair, including humans, gibbons and Silvered leaf monkeys, which seems to elicit caring behavior and perhaps deter aggression from sexually mature males. See also the colored gape of many bird chicks. μηδείς (talk) 23:21, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Biotech Research- please help!

Hello! I am working on a self-issued biotech project for fun. After one of my friends wondered out loud whether or not sci-fi-esque suspended animation is possible, I set out to find an answer.

To cut to the chase, does Wikipedia contain articles on non-solid nutrirional options, esp. nutrient mixes, calorie paste or an othersuch item, IV systems, and a list of the body's compatability with intravenous compounds/objects?

Thanks you for any help you can give! 12.204.242.133 (talk) 23:34, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Medical food and Parenteral nutrition might be useful starting points. Tevildo (talk) 23:59, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Liquid breathing, cryoprotectant and machine perfusion may be of interest. And we do have an article on suspended animation. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:04, 19 July 2015 (UTC)