Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 October 7

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October 7

Hanging_Rock,_Victoria

Isn't the climber in the first picture in the article above, obviously taking too much risk? Quest09 (talk) 01:13, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

No. To an experienced rock climber, the boulder in File:Rockclimbing.JPG is about as hard to climb as a staircase. --Carnildo (talk) 01:28, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec) "Too much" is a value judgement. We can't tell how high up he is (well, maybe Carnildo is more familiar with the place) , nor do we know how good a climber he is, nor how familiar he is with the climb he's doing. So we could only speculate. It's somewhat concerning that he's wearing trainers not rock shoes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:30, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The caption suggests the climber is bouldering, which is described as climbing rocks without ropes and other safety gear, but such climbs rarely go very high, and there may well be a bouldering mat out of view at the base of the rock in case he were to fall. --McDoobAU93 01:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

This activity might (depending on what is underneath the climber) be better described as scrambling. Bouldering suggests a) "a fall will not result in serious injury" and b) that it involves short technical challenges known as "problems". Difficult climbs without protection gear, above safe falling distance (our Bouldering article suggests 7 metres, my definition would be a bit lower), are usually described as soloing which is very risky unless you're very good. However, long climbs that are not difficult enough to need protection gear are called "scrambles". Alansplodge (talk) 23:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

On the subject of risk assesment and climbing, the words of Edward Whymper (1840-1911) are often quoted:

"Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end." Alansplodge (talk) 23:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Did he go out with a bang? --Jayron32 04:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

No, but four of his chums did, on the way down from his first ascent of the Matterhorn in 1865. Alansplodge (talk) 23:30, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

University of Wales

Hello, I'm from India. This institute is offering a Post Graduate Diploma in Global Business Leadership which they claim is affiliated to University of Wales. I want to know whether University of Wales offer off-campus degree? --Eoeoeoe (talk) 13:07, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they do. The University of Wales' official information about this programme is at [1]. However, the University of Wales has recently been in the British news with grave concerns expressed over the quality of its oversight processes - see, for example, [2]. Warofdreams talk 13:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec) Yes, the University of Wales does offer off-campus degree courses, but be very careful. Only yesterday, the University's reputation was called into question after a BBC investigation revealed a scam involving off-campus degree courses. You could find yourself with a degree certificate which prospective employers might be reluctant to believe you actually worked for. Astronaut (talk) 13:25, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

News reports say the University of Wales is going to stop validating degrees from other institutions, although it's not clear exactly when this will take effect.[3] --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

baked French fries?

What do you call "French fries" that are baked instead of fried? I've heard them called "baked fries", which doesn't make good sense. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 14:26, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I call them "oven chips" because I'm in the UK. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Same here, that seems to be the standard name -- Q Chris (talk) 14:43, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

"Baked fries" actually does make some sense -- the only way to get edible results is to coat the potatoes with some stuff that when baked in an oven simulates the effects of frying. Looie496 (talk) 15:16, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I think they are called "oven fries" in the U.S. Marco polo (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm in the US. They do simulate being fried, but they aren't fried. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:46, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm in the US and am only vaguely familiar with the term "oven fries". Frozen french fries that we bake in the oven are still usually called simply "french fries" even though they are baked in the home and not fried. Dismas|^(talk) 16:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

That is my experience as well. Americans usually call them "fries" regardless of how they are cooked. Also agree that spraying with PAM (cooking oil) or a similar product is the best way to get anything resembling the actual fried version. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:46, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

They are called oven fries. μηδείς (talk) 19:00, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

If "French fries" aren't French, then why should they be fried ? StuRat (talk) 22:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

In the US, I would expect them to be called "baked French fries". My Google search for "baked french fries" just now yielded 532,000 hits, demonstrating the popularity of my expectation. Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:54, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I think they are more commonly just called "French fries", or just "fries" of one kind or another, as in this packaging, [4]. I suspect it is a marketing thing. Any hint, such as the mention of the word "oven" or "baked", that they won't taste exactly like fried french fries, which of course they don't, would hurt sales. Pfly (talk) 23:56, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Except that the baked version is supposed to be healthier, so they would want to display the word "baked" prominently for health-oriented buyers. StuRat (talk) 00:12, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Do they sell them pre-fried and then frozen to be reheated in the oven ? If so, what do they call that version ? StuRat (talk) 00:13, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Oven fries? Why is this so difficult? μηδείς (talk) 02:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Why is it difficult to accept the unsourced word of an editor in amongst competing answers? That depends, really. Do you claim special access to The Truth? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 03:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

StuRat, I think most frozen fries intended to be oven baked at home are pre-fried to some extent. At least a quick googling seems to indicate such. And that's a good point about health-oriented buyers. I am thinking of just the mass marketed non-health stuff. The very idea of "healthy" french fries of any kind seems strange, but I'm sure they exist. Funny, this is one food topic that doesn't make me hungry. :-) Pfly (talk) 03:36, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

No, my Aussie friend, It has nothing to do with accepting the consensus of foreigners to tell me what exists in America. I am an American who has bought and eaten Oven Fries. They are indeed called Oven Fries. They are marketed as Oven Fries. Yes, they are also called "baked french fries" when an explanation is necessary, just as Fritos are described as corn chips. But the normal term is Oven Fries. I think that's more definitive than some auslander saying "apparently americans...." based on a google search listing recipes. (By the way, I get 244,000 hits for "oven fries" at Bing and 61,600 for "baked french fries". Google seems to have stopped doing strict searches for some reason.) Let's hear some Americans contradict me. I won't have a problem with that. μηδείς (talk) 03:40, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't aware the question was specifically about what they're called in the US. On re-reading, I'm still not aware of that. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 03:56, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I am sure all those "in America" and "in the U.S" phrases above were inhelpful. Note that I have no stand on what they are called in Britain, other than that I think "oven chips" as suggested above sounds quite plausible. Note also that I am not of the opinion that Tofu Burgers originated in the quaint teutonic burg of Toefue.μηδείς (talk) 04:24, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Those are quotes from selected US-based answers. But the first 2 answers were from the UK, so what about them? There were no restrictions in the question, and surely it's the question that sort of matters around here. I'd be very surprised if different names didn't apply in different countries, so there wouldn't be one sole right answer. Much as you seem to want to make it solely about the US, it ain't, mate. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 04:49, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Yup, I'm with the antipodean here. Stating that "the normal term is Oven Fries" is implying that being from the U.S. is normal - it isn't. Believing that being from the U.S. is normal may very well be normal for the U.S., but that doesn't make it true. In most parts of the world, Americans are exotic foreigners, with strange ways. Get used to it... AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:03, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Even within the US there may be striking regional differences. New England, fpr example, often uses quite different terms than the rest of the country. Pfly (talk) 08:40, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

The point was that they are called oven whatevers. Nowhere above did I (or anyone else) say they are called whatever fries, as opposed to whatever chips. I truly believe some sort of professional counseling would help you guys better with your apparent inferiority complex than attributing to me arguments that I haven't made. μηδείς (talk) 19:31, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Nobody has denied you have said they are called Oven Fries. You've said it twice, and I'm sure we heard you loud and clear both times. Trouble is, you saying it is so does not necessarily make it so for all places at all times. You got into hot water when you made the question only about the USA, though it never had any such territorial limitation. That argument was opposed, and you have not defended it. End of issue. Nowhere that I can see has any argument that you did not actually make been attributed to you. What was that you were saying about the need for professional counselling? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:50, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't own either a deep-fat-fryer or a chip-pan so I buy Frozen-oven-chips and call them chips. Simples. I am English and my wife is Scottish, but our recent visitors from Canada (the non-French Bit) insisted they be called French-Fries, despite the source potatoes being extremely Scottish, never having visited France, the sprayed-on-oil being Spanish, and the oven in which they were cooked was Scandinavian. French-fries???????????????????? Nah. CHIPS Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 94.172.118.132 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Anyone puzzled by the term "Simples" or wishing to get a better understanding of the weirdness that is our British sense of humour, may like to click on the surreal world that is Aleksandr Orlov (advertising). --Dweller (talk) 10:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Two-pin plug in the UK

Resolved

I bought an electric toothbrush a couple of days ago, and the plug on it is very similar to this. I am told the socket for this type of plug is common in bathrooms, but we haven't got one. Is it possible to just use a simple three point plug socket, or do I need an adapter? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 16:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

You need an adaptor for a shaver socket, very common. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:25, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Your toothbrush charger is expecting 220VAC, so you can either remove the 2-pin plug and wire the power lead into a conventional 13A 3-pin plug; or you can, as ItsMe says, get an adaptor which is in essence a 13A plug with a couple of holes in the top into which the 2-pin plug fits. Which is all to say, what's required is a physical form factor conversion, not an electrical conversion. (IIRC, you can force the 2-pin plug into a 3-pin socket, but that is not a good way to proceed; the two pins are very slightly closer together than the live & neutral in a 3-pin socket, and you need to get the internal cover to open which generaly requires sticking something into the earth socket ... all to be avoided.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Something like this. Not recommending this dealer in particular! You can probably find one in your nearest supermarket, DIY shop, independent hardware shop... Itsmejudith (talk) 16:43, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

It's far easier to buy an adapter than to re-wire a plug! --Tango (talk) 18:58, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas. I'll pop into the village tomorrow - we have a shop that sepecifically sells adapters, and I'll get the one that Judith mentioned (or something similar). Oddly, I used to have a few, because when I came back from Japan I brought computer equipment with me (for which I have since bought British plugs because I went to Korea to work, and just having adapters to fit adapters would have been silly), but they have disappeared. Cheers. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 21:23, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think those would have worked, anyway. Japan uses a different voltage to the UK, so those adapters would have converted the voltage too, which you probably don't need (although an electric toothbrush would probably work ok on any mains voltage). --Tango (talk) 10:39, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you could take the cord with you and try it out before you buy an adaptor. It may look like something that will fit in a common UK bathroom shaver socket, but it might just as well be a european style plug. They look very similar, but the UK shaver plug has slightly fatter pins that are very slightly closer together than a european plug. You might find the AC power plugs and sockets article useful. Astronaut (talk) 18:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Our BS 1363 article about the wonderful British 3-pin plug, suggests that "Many bathrooms, particularly in hotels, have 2-pin standard "shaver sockets", which usually accommodate both European and US 2-pin plugs." Alansplodge (talk) 23:26, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

The reverse however, is not so certain. I cannot plug my UK electric shaver into my European bathroom socket or any other socket in the house. Astronaut (talk) 14:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)