Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 October 23

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October 23

Wikimedia fundraising

There are those messages on my screen such as "Keep up the good work Wikipeople!" Is there a page where I can read all the messages? A.Z. 01:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - try here. SteveBaker 01:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Those are an interesting read. A.Z. 02:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

If I'd known anyone would care, I'd have composed something moving and poetic. :-) SteveBaker 14:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

the golden quadrilateral NHAI project of Govt of India

Can any one pl tell me how is the road route between Delhi and Mumbai any different now that the golden quadrilateral project is complete? Does the new route by pass some cities/towns or is it a completely diffrent route. sudhir —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.94.228.13 (talk) 01:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

good / bad links

good link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table bad link: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/PeriodicTable

Can the latter be linked to the former?

Gbressani 03:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)gbressani

No, for a few reasons:

• Wiktionary and Wikipedia are different projects. Wiktionary is a wiki dictionary, Wikipedia is a wiki encyclopedia. Not the same thing.
• The latter is just a bad CamelCase link. There is a Wiktionary entry for periodic table already. Wikimedia projects don't use CamelCase (anymore).

--24.147.86.187 03:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Corporate domination conspiracy theory

With all the conspiracy theory info that crops up here, I thought someone might be able to help with one that I heard about years ago. The idea behind it was that there was a group of maybe 30-50 people who had been CEO, CFO, or some other high ranking official of various corporations. This group had controlled most of the major U.S. corporations for years with little variance or control by people outside this group. I was shown a chart that detailed the people's moves from one company to another but it was years ago that I saw the chart. So, does this ring a bell with anyone? Does this have a name? Or even an article here? Dismas|^(talk) 03:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Might it be related to the Bilderberg Group? Skittle 07:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

No, that's in the open (although what they talk about isn't), it's worldwide and it's for all sorts of influential people, including politicians.

I once heard about something like that. The guy told me to look up a writing below a triangle on a US one dollar bill, but that image only shows one side, so it must be on the other side. DirkvdM 08:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, that is not what I was referring to, though I appreciate the link since I had never heard of that group before. The group that I am referring to does not have royalty and heads of state as "members". I remember now that there was a web site at one time that espoused this theory. You could click on peoples names and it would show corporations that they currently worked for as well as those that they had worked for in the past. As you navigated through this list you started to realize how they were all moving around in essentially the same circles.

The group that Dirk is referring to is most likely the Freemasons. Their symbology is supposed to be all over U.S. currency. Dismas|^(talk) 08:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

No, it's not the freemasons. It was something I had never heard of before. DirkvdM 17:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Funny I can remember several of these types of societies from Robert Ludlum (usually related to a specific cause) novels, and one of the Flynn novels by Gregory Mcdonald has one, and I am sure it is based on real one, not the masons though, let me do some digging. Dureo 08:59, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Here are a few of the ones I was thinking of, Trilateral Commission(International) and Skull and Bones usually fictionalized accounts are based on the Bilderburgs, or the S&B's types. Dureo 09:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like Skull and Bones to me. SteveBaker 14:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

• Found it! I remembered seeing something like this a while back, with a fairly fancy website showing how incestuous corporate boards are. The search that finally found it was "links corporate.boards kissinger same.people". Here's the site: www.theyrule.net. --Sean 14:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes! That's it! I had no idea what to put into google in order to find it since I didn't have any of the names of the people and just searching corporation officers was way too broad. Thanks! Dismas|^(talk) 21:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

• Great! I've found that in general when you're searching for evil, adding "kissinger" improves the results. :) --Sean 01:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The Paris Club or (linked within the article) the London club? ny156uk 18:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

You might also want to see our articles about the Bohemian Club/Bohemian Grove.

Atlant 13:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

date of deepawali in 1949?

what was the date of deepawali in 1949? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.164.238 (talk • contribs)

Good question! The new moon in October 1949 was at 21:23 UTC on the 21st [1], which would have been early in the morning of the 22nd in India. So I think, from my very short study of the Hindu calendar, that Diwali 1949 would have been the 22nd of October, or Asvina 30 in the Indian national calendar. FiggyBee 15:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Seal (animal)

What are the seals predators? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 10:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Other seals, killer whales, great white sharks, polar bears. I suppose other sharks would snatch a small seal if it swam close enough to bite. We don't know everything that goes on down there. --Milkbreath 11:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

But we do know--cannibalism aside--that our pinniped article does not cover predators well / at all. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

And let's not forget humans. FiggyBee 11:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Warranty void if seal broken? Lanfear's Bane | t 12:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

chicken

Ki Ora, Im a chicken farmer from New Zealand, and I'm shitting myself with confusion. Thieves keep on breaking into my warehouse and stealing meat. Ive done everything i can thik of but they still get it. Ive considered storing meet in the forest to make it safer. Does anyone have any suggestion? Ta.

Call the police? Dismas|^(talk) 12:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Security Cameras to record the details and then pass onto the police?82.153.9.220 13:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Bug a chicken? (no, not bugger) DirkvdM 17:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Would chicken meat go off in the forest? I think you wouldn't be able to sell it for human consumption if you don't store it according to regulations. My first suggestion would be to hire someone to keep watch for a few nights (especially if there is a pattern. If someone's watching, they're less likely to try, and might go somewhere easier. Your local police station might be able to give you more information about preventing breaking and entering, especially if you've reported multiple crimes. Steewi 06:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The question of storing things in the forest had been raised on the Refdesk a few months ago.

However, of the things that might help considering installing some security devices (fences or such), or do hire someone to watch the perimeter. Advancements in technology offer solutions like video surveillance, photosensors or presence detectors that trigger a (silent) alarm when they sense something. Also, yeah, what Steewi above wrote. Good luck! --Ouro (blah blah) 10:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Ethnicity

How do i calculate what fraction Latvian I am? If all 4 of my grandparents were Latvian i guess that makes me 100% Latvian, although i have lived in Great Britain all my life as have my parents. It confuses me when people say 'how much Latvian are you?' i would like to have a witty and infromative answer for them, thanks alot RobertsZ 13:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, 4 grandparents being 100% Latvian would make you be 100% Latvian, 3 would be 75%, 2 would be 50% and 1 would be 25%. Not a hard calculation. However, it's not like being Latvian is a genetic thing - so I'd say you were about as Latvian as you feel. I'm English with some Scottish ancestry, my wife is French with some Algerian ancestry. My kid spent all of his life from age 2 until 16 here in Texas and speaks with an American accent...what do you think he thinks he is? British - as it happens. When people ask you "How much Latvian are you?", I would put my hands about 6" apart and say "About that much."...it's about as meaningful as anything else you could answer. SteveBaker 14:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

How about "omelet" pronounced OM-uh-lett (I'm a Lett)? Maybe "solid amber". Baltic baby. Me, I'm Slovenian, German, French, English, Irish, and God knows what else. --Milkbreath 15:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I've always wondered how people can have so much ethnicity in them. bibliomaniac15 A straw poll on straw polls 20:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Of course this means that your Latviannes (Latvianity?) is completely dependent on how far up your tree of ancestors you go for the calculation. If you go one level up to your 8 great grandparents, two of them may come from Europe, and you're suddenly 75% Latvian. Go far enough back, and we're all 100% African. You can solve this by adding some kind of dampening, ie. your parents contribute 0.5, your grandparents 0.25 and so on. By that measure you're between 25% and 50% Latvian. The choice of how much your grandparents contribute, compared to your parents is completely arbitrary of course, so there's no really meaningful answer the question of how Latvian you are. risk 22:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

This is a question about ethnicity, not citizenship. Steve, your kid might have British citizenship, but can you really argue he has British ethnicity, with all that wonderful ethnic commingling in his family tree? My kids have always been Australian citizens, but by ethnic background one of them is predominantly Russian (with bits of Kalmyk, Serbian, Polish and Jewish thrown in), and the other is half Irish-cum-Scottish-cum-English and half predominantly Russian (with bits of Kalmyk, Serbian, Polish and Jewish thrown in). -- JackofOz 02:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

According to ethnicity: An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other...if our OP does not identify as Latvian, then how can we call this person a part of the Latvian ethnic group? It's not genetics, it's not country of birth, it's not citizenship and it's not the same thing as "race". It's just a belief thing. SteveBaker 04:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

An enlightened, if unscientific approach might be to ask "Do you feel British"? If yes, you're British. The negative side of this question is the notorious Tebbit cricket Test. --Dweller 11:06, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow - yes, I'd forgotten that one! Still, it's hard to know how my kid could cheer for the French, Algerian or American national cricket teams! Tebbit was aiming this barb at the large numbers of Indian and Pakistani people who had immigrated into Britain following their expulsion from Uganda in 1972 (they all had British citizenship). Both India and Pakistani cricket teams have massive following amongst those people and Tebbits "test" was basically aimed in their direction. SteveBaker 14:06, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys, this is really interesting stuff, i think the discussion has highlighted my dilema with ethnicity over citizenship, or even patriotism, but now i have some interesting talking points if it comes up in conversation, which it undoubtedly will in the future. And i dont think the Latvian cricket team is up to much these days, ha ha ha, thanks again, RobertsZ 14:24, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

• You might enjoy reading "Man Who's 1/16th Irish Proud Of His Irish Heritage". :) --Sean 17:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

A late thought. If four of my friends and I decide, for a laugh, that we now wish to be identified as being of "Ugro-Caspian" ethnicity, then, according to the definition, that's all that's required, and a new ethnicity has been born. This, despite our actual ethnic backgrounds having nothing to do with Ugro-Caspian, which is hardly surprising because we just made it up in an idle moment at the pub. The point of this is to demonstrate that real ethnicities must have some connection with actual historical associations of people, whether through social, genetic, religious or other means. Maybe this is assumed in the definition. Maybe not. -- JackofOz 03:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

A 3rd generation Chinese-American might be both 100% Chinese (genetically) and 100% American (culturally). Being 200% Chinese-American might come in handy when the gym teacher tells him to "give 110%". :-) StuRat 20:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

HOW TO CHANGE THE TITLE OF AN ARTICLE ?

Would anybody direct me to an instruction how to change the Title (The name) of the article that I wrote? Krzysiulek 15:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

If you're referring to Kofler Edward, it's already been fixed. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

As to how to - there's a "Move" option to the right of the "edit this page" option. (Or above, or below, depending upon which skin you;re using to read wikipedia.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe that very new users are unable to move articles. Jon513 17:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Correct, though Krzysiulek is not such a user. Algebraist 21:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Is it true

Is it true that a baby has to have either their mothers blood type or their fathers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.240.25.47 (talk) 16:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

See the table at ABO blood group system#Inheritance. In short, no, a baby can be O when mother & father are A and B. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

But an O parent cannot have an AB child or vice versa. — A related point came up in an episode of Northern Exposure that I saw (again) recently. Ed, a foundling, learns that the only two AB-negative people in Cicely are himself and a woman who's about the right age to be his unknown mother. But the parent or child of an AB is not much more likely to be AB than the general population (I haven't got around to computing the odds). —Tamfang 18:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

al Capones' Grave Stone

On a recent visit to see where Al Capone is buried, we noticed there were pennies scattered on his headstone. I have searched and searched and can not find the reason behind it. Why do people place pennies on headstones?Daisy2008 21:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure, but if I were to guess, I'd say it probably has some connection to the ancient Greek belief that a person needed a coin to pass the River Styx and continue to the underworld. However, I could be completely wrong about that. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 22:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Objects are often left on top of headstones by those who visit them. Not only coins but sometimes flags, toys, model cars, etc. Some cemetaries frown on this, Arlington National Cemetary in the United States, I think is one that doesn't allow such trinkets. They are often items that would be symbolical of the person buried there. I'd agree with the above as far as, specifically, the coins go though. Dismas|^(talk) 00:40, 24 October 2007 (UTC)