Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 April 10
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April 10 edit
hundes ars in tino naso edit
It's an insult in old German, meaning 'hound’s arse in thine nose'. Does it have a common equivalent in English? Thanks. Omidinist (talk) 07:25, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- That's not its meaning, but a translation. If you can say what it means, or when it might be used, then that might be helpful. Bazza (talk) 08:36, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- If I knew the answers to your questions, I woudln't bother you. Omidinist (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- As Bazza 7 implied, context is everything. Hopefully a German speaker will drop by shortly. I cannot think of an "equivalent" in a literal sense, but there are of course plenty of less canine insults that might well be used in the same sort of context. Unfortunately Wikipedia does not yet have a List of insults.--Shantavira|feed me 10:52, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- I suspect the expression has fallen into disuse sometime in the last twelve centuries, and I have no hope an Old-High-German speaker will drop by any time soon. --Lambiam 12:06, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Here's the context: https://philobiblon.co.uk/?p=4927. It's at the end of the first paragraph. Note the use of the word 'meaning'. Omidinist (talk) 11:02, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Omidinist: It's not a bother, but you may not have understood my comment. In any case, a quick Google search revealed that it refers to a Burgundian Law which required someone convicted of stealing a dog to kiss a dog's anus. It's referenced on P28 of Humour, History and Politics in Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages, edited by Guy Halsall, ISBN 0-521-81116-3. There is no direct English equivalent of the phrase that I can immediately think of. Bazza (talk) 11:20, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- As Bazza 7 implied, context is everything. Hopefully a German speaker will drop by shortly. I cannot think of an "equivalent" in a literal sense, but there are of course plenty of less canine insults that might well be used in the same sort of context. Unfortunately Wikipedia does not yet have a List of insults.--Shantavira|feed me 10:52, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- If I knew the answers to your questions, I woudln't bother you. Omidinist (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Next to the injunction not only to kiss the pooch's posterior but also to do so in public (jubemus coram omni populo posteriora ipsius osculetur), the convict under Burgundian Law also had to pay the dog owner five solidi. Although the punishment under Burgundian Law and the Old High German insult use the same imagery, I do not think there is a direct connection. As to the hundes ars, the phrase was earlier reported as Hundes ars in dínero nasó [1] or Vndes ars in tine naso,[2] from an early 9th-century Old High German glossary, glossed in Latin as canis culum in tuo naso. We can only guess for which occasions this used to be deemed an apt insult. Was it used as a reprimand for someone who was too inquisitive? Or was it used similarly generically as calling someone a fuckface? The uncertainty makes a search for equivalents too speculative. --Lambiam 12:06, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Good Points. Thank you. Omidinist (talk) 13:53, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Makes me think of the similar old Dutch insult hondsvot. (Roughly "dog's cunt / arse".) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:10, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- And of its cognate German insult Hundsfott. (Roughly "dog's cunt.) --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 10:26, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
- There's also the old Swedish variant "hundsfott". I wonder whether the Swedish and High German variants might have been derived from Low German. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:02, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
- Good Points. Thank you. Omidinist (talk) 13:53, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Next to the injunction not only to kiss the pooch's posterior but also to do so in public (jubemus coram omni populo posteriora ipsius osculetur), the convict under Burgundian Law also had to pay the dog owner five solidi. Although the punishment under Burgundian Law and the Old High German insult use the same imagery, I do not think there is a direct connection. As to the hundes ars, the phrase was earlier reported as Hundes ars in dínero nasó [1] or Vndes ars in tine naso,[2] from an early 9th-century Old High German glossary, glossed in Latin as canis culum in tuo naso. We can only guess for which occasions this used to be deemed an apt insult. Was it used as a reprimand for someone who was too inquisitive? Or was it used similarly generically as calling someone a fuckface? The uncertainty makes a search for equivalents too speculative. --Lambiam 12:06, 10 April 2022 (UTC)