Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 January 24

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January 24

Am looking for an English proper noun (a name of person / city - and likewise), whose pronunciation contains the consonant of "the".

HOTmag (talk) 08:17, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

If you mean the Voiced dental fricative /ð/, one placename is Lostwithiel. A common surname is Weatherspoon.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:03, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

And its variant Witherspoon Contact Basemetal here 13:08, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

But Lostwithiel isn't an English name, is it? One more example of a personal name is Rutherford (surname) --My another account (talk) 11:05, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

It's an Anglicised version of the Cornish language Lostwydhyel; however, Cornish hasn't been spoken in that part of Cornwall since the start of the 14th century, so it's a bit of a moot point. Alansplodge (talk) 13:37, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

The Warwickshire town of Southam. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Motherwell (Scottish, but an English name). Rotherham. Staithes. If you're looking for one with initial /ð/, I don't think you'll find one, because initial /ð/ seems to be restricted to function words in (Standard) English. --ColinFine (talk) 10:50, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Rotherhithe has /ð/ twice! --My another account (talk) 11:31, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

And not too far away from Rotherhithe are Walthamstow and Waltham Abbey, which actually have different etymologies. Alansplodge (talk) 17:52, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure the 'th' there is voiced? In Waltham, Massachusetts the 'th' is voiceles. And no one has answered my questions about Lethem and Letham yet. Contact Basemetal here 18:05, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm no linguist, but it's pronounced the same as "th" in "father". Actually, the locals generally use th-fronting, so "Walvamstow" is common Alansplodge (talk) 11:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, meanwhile the Brits I have met in Waltham, MA, call it Walfam. μηδείς (talk) 18:34, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, "f" replaces /θ/ and "v" replaces /ð/. We aint ignorant y'know. Alansplodge (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

That's the plural, "we ain't all ignorant", Alansplodge. And I was making a joke, the distribution of which was the empty set. In any case, a sincere Happy New Years! μηδείς (talk) 22:24, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

It seems a necessary (but not sufficient) condition is that the 'th' be intervocalic (in writing if not in pronunciation, as for the second 'th' of this this last case). Even in Eartham the 'th' is voiceless. But the condition is not sufficient. A case where even an intervocalic 'th' is nevertheless pronounced θ would be Atholl. I don't know if the 'th' in Lethem and Letham is voiced or voiceless. The question is though: is the condition really necessary? Contact Basemetal here 13:08, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

As for your final question: No, it's not. See a counter example, at the end of the title of this thread (there are many other counter examples). HOTmag (talk) 13:15, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Needless to say I had excluded the case of the initial th in the well known function words (the, this, that, those, etc.) already mentioned by Colin. Contact Basemetal here 13:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

So let me rephrase: except for the intial 'th' of those functions words, are there cases where a voiced 'th' is either final or followed by a consonant or preceded by a consonant? Contact Basemetal here 13:40, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Rythm? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 16:10, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Which rhymes with wikt:smitham. Very good Tiger. And I've just learned a new word: "rhythm". (Kidding, it was "smitham" of course). Note however that the final 'm' is syllabic. The pronunciation is something like "rhythum". So from the phonological point of view it is still not an example. But as far as spelling goes 'm' is certainly a consonant, and you're completely right. Contact Basemetal here 16:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Rhythmic(al)? Rhythmics? (whether from a phonological - or orthographic - point of view). HOTmag (talk) 17:21, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

(ec) Writhes, tithes, bathes, teethes (in pronunciation, though not spelling). Also, albeit in a new syllable, rhythmic. And going back to the title question, a name that is familiar to Americans is Dan Rather. Loraof (talk) 17:27, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Southwell /sʌðl̩/. —Tamfang (talk) 21:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Linked the Southwell I imagine you were thinking of and of course there's Southwark. Mikenorton (talk) 11:43, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Also Wetherby and Bletherston. Please tell us when you would like us to stop. Alansplodge (talk) 18:37, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

And Leatherhead, Petherton, Ditherington, Featherstone, Withernsea, Netherfield and any number of places with the prefix "Nether". Alansplodge (talk) 19:07, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Maybe you can stop right after someone's told me if in Lethem and/or Letham it is /θ/ or /ð/. I think I might have asked about ten bloody times by now. Contact Basemetal here 19:21, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I would go for /θ/ but I don't know for certain. I found How to Pronounce Lethem and Pronunciation of Jonathan Lethem but I'm none the wiser since there's a problem with the sound card (?) on my elderly work computer and it's not high on my boss's list of priorities. Alansplodge (talk) 19:59, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I hear [let'hɑm] and ['lɪθəm] there --My another account (talk) 20:51, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Is the NHS paying for socks?

Understanding this bit: "NHS prescription costs - The current prescription charge is £8.20 per item (£16.40 per pair of elastic hosiery). " Do they mean socks? Does the NHS pay for socks? I find it difficult to find an alternative interpretation, but also difficult to believe that a health insurance pays for socks. --Llaanngg (talk) 18:17, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Some people use compression stockings for certain medical conditions    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 18:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

As above. Also note that the NHS is not health insurance. Fgf10 (talk) 22:38, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

There has recently been a clampdown on the things that doctors can prescribe for their NHS patients, but in 2013, the rules were: "Any food, drug, toiletry or cosmetic may be prescribed on an NHS prescription unless the product is listed in Part XVIIIA of the Drug Tariff. For example, whisky is not on the blacklist, so a prescription for this item would be passed for payment by the NHSBSA Prescription Services. The prescriber may however be questioned by their Primary Care Trust (PCT) about the appropriateness of prescribing this item at NHS expense". [1] It is a subject which evokes considerable spleen from the popular press; see NHS spends millions on prescriptions for sun cream, Yakult yoghurt drinks and Berocca and Doughnuts and pizzas on the NHS: £116 million of food for special diets including junk food was handed out in prescriptions in the past year. Alansplodge (talk) 11:31, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

• In the US, Medicare pays for diabetic shoes and socks, and for orthotic inserts. I'll have to tell my parents to ask about whiskey, though. μηδείς (talk) 01:44, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Elastic hose are used to reduce the risk of deep vein thrombosis. The NHS has some information here. DuncanHill (talk) 01:54, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Japanese language question

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To my untrained Western ears, the voiceovers in these two scenes from two completely different anime sound strikingly similar in style and tone. They even seem to end with the same word(s) or phrase(s). However the translations are completely different with no similarities at all.

"In the anime production studio, the men spending nights sleeping at their desks are about to meet a HackaDoll."

"Dear Diary, today I went to the forest and I met a bear."

Could you explain this to me, someone who doesn't speak a lick of Japanese? The voiceovers seem too similar to each other to be a coincidence. Is it a cultural thing Japanesequestion2016 21:59, 24 January 2016‎ (UTC)

The translations are correct. 'Deatta', the final word, means 'met'. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 23:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, both lines are said in a similar and distinctive style. I associate it with (bad, melodramatic) reading of Japanese poetry, but I'm not sure that's the intent.

The second line is an exact quote from the Japanese lyrics of The Other Day I Met a Bear, and it's probably a deliberate reference to that. The first line may be a reference to the same song for all I know. I don't know how popular it is. -- BenRG (talk) 06:51, 25 January 2016 (UTC)