Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 June 16

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June 16

Hwyl - Welsh word

At Wiktionary, we have a 15-month old AFD discussion about the Welsh word hwyl, more specifically whether to delete the definition 5 "proselytizing". Are there any Welsh speakers here that could help out? At the moment our page looks like:

hwyl f (plural hwyliau)

1. mood
2. fun
3. "sing-song" trait traditionally considered to be possessed by the Welsh people, especially Nonconformist preachers
4. sail
5. proselytizing

Any help would be appreciated --Jackofclubs (talk) 06:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Would you appreciate help in finding Wikipedians who speak Welsh? -- Wavelength (talk) 17:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board might be a good place to ask. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 09:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll direct my question there --Jackofclubs (talk) 16:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Take a look at http://www.cymru.ac.uk/geiriadur/pdf/GPC0018-06.pdf, part of the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru, the definitive dictionary of the Welsh language. The definitions of hwyl are on page 358 of this pdf. Proselytzing is not one of the definitions. (9g is an indication of when a usage is first found - 9th century). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 19:45, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

djinn = gene activator

The research that I have been undertaking is to link the action of the djinn - as both innate and external forces that act to activate / suppress gene activity. That is, they are the forces (potential energy realized) within and around us that act to switch on or off our genetic predelections - inherited patterns, suppressed or dormant, non active. If we look at the language sequence of jinn / djinn it may go like this: jann (meaning concealed, and from where majnun inferring madness {when we have switched on and dominated by aberrant psychological states}originated) - jinn (ignoring its genus' various variants: jinnati (m), jinniyah(f), malkuth(?), ifrit(m), ifreeta(f), marid etc) - genie - gene - genome - genetic - genius (tutelary spirit, Latin). Each name when I look for their origin appears to come from distinct and unique origins and are dispersed basically linear and I cannot realy find the bridge between djinn and gene; but scientific research clearly indicates that present understanding of suppressor and activator genes are switched on by our environment (after Dr Lipton) - whether cellular, extracellular or from our external environment - and that my own research and clinical experience is that there are 'forces' present within individuals which match the story of the djinn - which is very clear when you read between the lines the '1001 nights'. That is, the stories all recall heriditary, psychosomatic, addictive, psychological, and psychospiritual states - hidden underneath the folkloric tale of some alien nasty spirit (djinn) that is introduced, prompting strange behaviour. I am wanting to link the language up so that I can see whether there is indeed a link, a common theme. SolihinT (talk) 08:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The Latin/Greek words you mentioned mainly come from an Indo-European root *GEN, with primary meanings "to give birth" (as a verb derivation) or "family" (as a noun derivation). This same root gave the English word kin. However, ancient peoples had no knowledge of modern scientific genetics (something which didn't really start to take shape until the late 19th century). There has apparently been some conflation or confusion in English between the Latin word genii "guardian spirits" and the Arabic word جني jinnī (the singular of jinn) — both contributing to the English word "genie" — but it seems dubious that the two words could be etymologically related... AnonMoos (talk) 12:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Simple sentence

This question has been removed. It duplicates a previously removed question: Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#Moved_from_page. -- Coneslayer (talk) 12:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

That's strange because I asked both questions and I certainly asked a completely different question here than I did before? ~ R.T.G 13:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Sentence in Russian, correct?

Hello, can you please correct any mistakes in the following sentence in Russian:

Пойдемте со мной, давайте потерять наш взгляд вместе

It's supposed to mean "come with me, let's lose our minds together".

Thank you, or rather, спасибо! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.56.177.121 (talk) 17:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm hopeless with Russian verbs of motion, but I'm not sure about Пойдемте. Maybe наш взгляд (= our appearance/look) should be наши уми (= our minds). -- JackofOz (talk) 01:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

IIRC 'Пойдемте' is a common but morphologically deviant construction formed by adding the 'polite (but 2nd person) 'те' onto the (1st person plural) 'Пойдём'. But the meaning is still 'Let's go', so I'm dubious whether 'со мной' is possible with it. And even if 'взгляд' is the right word, it seems odd that it should be in the singular. I'm not a fluent Russian speaker, though. --ColinFine (talk) 23:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Re 'со мной': Russian has some odd forms of expression. When someone wants to say "He and I <did something>", the standard way is not the literal "Он и я", but "Мы со мной", which literally means "We with me". On that basis, I wouldn't necessarily discount Пойдемте со мной. The sort of sense of it is "Let's you and I both come" = "Come with me". -- JackofOz (talk) 03:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Odd indeed: I'd expect 'we with him' (similar to a construction that I've seen in French). —Tamfang (talk) 00:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)