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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sadie Harris/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 18:13, 20 September 2012 [1].

Sadie Harris edit

Sadie Harris (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs), Sofffie7 (talk), 21:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Following my successful nomination of "Give Peace a Chance" (Grey's Anatomy), Sofffie7 and I present Sadie Harris. A recurring character on the medical drama Grey's Anatomy, Harris departed in the show's fifth season. The article was listed as a good article in July, and after extensive copyedits, expansions, and cleanups, we believe this article now meets the featured article criteria. Thank you in advance for your time, TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 21:36, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
  • "Introduced as a surgical intern who has an old friendship Meredith Grey (Ellen Pompeo)" -> I assume "with" is missing after "friendship"; it might also be worth adding something like "series lead" or "central character" to highlight that Meredith Grey is the Grey of Grey's Anatomy (that makes sense, right?)
  • "The character has received mixed feedback among critics" -> I may be mistaken but I believe "from" would be required here, rather than "among".
  • I think In Treatment could be explained a little; mention at the very least that it's a teevee series.
  • " Chandra Wilson (Miranda Bailey) ..." -> Not sure we need the role in an aside here; it's already made clear who/what Wilson is in relation to George without needing a specific role and given the frequent use of both character and actor names losing this one would help things stay clearer.
  • "Stacy McKee, a primary writer for the show, said Harris is Meredith's "pre-Cristina Cristina" and that she shares "a history with Meredith that Cristina can't"." -> this one might need a bit more context than simply linking to Cristina Yang.
  • I provided context on the friendship triangle between the three. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 00:44, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably worth noting to some extent what Alan Sepinwall's credentials are (source is a personal blog though the individual seems notable to a degree). A few words explaining he's a television critic of some renown would help.
  • "she took the blame for breaking Sloan's penis" -> is there a better way to phrase this? I'm no doctor but I'm not sure something without a bone technically breaks.
  • GRAPPLE X 00:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Thought I'd done this earlier; my concerns have all been seen to. GRAPPLE X 00:21, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed comments from Crisco 1492 moved to talk

  • Support on prose. I have no issues with the infobox image either, but others may have a different opinion on if it meets the NFCC. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:56, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A good article worthy of the little bronze star. but Crisco's issues do need to be addressed. --Khanassassin ☪ 14:17, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks. I'm in between classes, on my phone, but will address the issues when I get home. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 14:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments from Cassianto
  • Per Crisco really including a few others.
  • "George described her character as "naughty" and "mischievous", as well as "nutty". "With Sadie, there are so many more interesting things going on with her, beyond her sexuality. She is quite broken. All that flirting and naughtiness is a Band-Aid for something else really disturbed," George said. -- I think the "George said" at the end looks poorly placed. Maybe; George described her character as "naughty" and "mischievous", as well as "nutty". She went onto say: "With Sadie, there are so many more interesting things going on with her, beyond her sexuality. She is quite broken. All that flirting and naughtiness is a Band-Aid for something else really disturbed."
  • The blurb was paraphrased, so this issue's been taken care of. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Entertainment Weekly's Michael Ausiello said that Harris is "an intern with an open mind towards sexuality". -- Usually better for a paragraph to end with a citation.
  • I think we need to be careful with the amount of quotes the article has. I think it is at its limit now. I think too many can make for some difficult reading. -- CassiantoTalk 16:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Almost everything has been paraphrased, and only one "long" quote remains. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - On above fixes and responses. -- CassiantoTalk 10:54, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I'm afraid that this article's prose is currently below FA standards

  • "in which it is revealed" - over-dramatic, and suggests that this was somehow 'hidden'
  • "Having joined the show as a surgical intern at Seattle Grace Hospital, Harris begins a friendship with fellow intern Lexie Grey (Chyler Leigh), Meredith's sister." - this mixes up the character's real-world status and her in-show status (Melissa George joined the show, and the character joined the interns in the hospital)
  • Some people and characters are called by the first names, and others by their second names - please standadise on second names
  • This is because there are two characters whose last name is Grey so to make the difference we refer to them by their first name. Sofffie7 (talk) 13:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As far as I'm aware, the usual convention in articles in this kind of situation is to use full names. I find mixing up first and last names this way to be confusing. Nick-D (talk) 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Later, she flirts with Callie Torres (Sara Ramirez), though the relationship is never pursued. Nonetheless, Harris continues to pursue a friendship with Lexie," - the 'nonetheless' is out of place
    • I changed it to 'Harris does, however, continue to pursue [...]'. 'However' is correct because the text is saying she doesn't pursue a relationship with Torres, but she does pursue a friendship with Lexie.
      • Why the 'however'? If this isn't an either/or type situation, it's not necessary. Nick-D (talk) 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Although he offers to tutor her, she declines and chooses not to tell Webber, which O'Malley does instead." - who does what is a bit unclear here
  • "When she tries to get Meredith to go back to vacationing in Europe, Meredith declines her offer and Harris departs." - this is the first time that 'vacationing in Europe' is mentioned, but this wording seems to assume readers have prior knowledge of it. Also, is this an 'offer'?
    • I mentioned the vacationing above, and rephrased the sentence. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 19:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Melissa George received an invitation from Grey's Anatomy's casting agents after seeing her recurring guest performances in the television drama In Treatment (2008)," - read literally, this says that George was invited after she saw her own performance (I'd suggest replacing "after seeing" with "after they saw")
  • "to meet the show's executive producers Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers." - this doesn't connect with the rest of the sentence
  • "Her initial deal" - whose? (this could refer to George or Shonda)
  • "Furthermore, the fact that her character was not very liked by the viewers also lead to the non-extension of George's contract" - this is a bit awkward, and it contradicts the previous two rather feel-good sentences; was the character discontinued because George wanted to work on other projects (other than appearing as a regular character on a highly rating show?!), that her story arc had concluded, or that she was annoying viewers?
    • George wanted to leave to pursue other projects, which fit in because Harris' storyline came to a natural close. The fact that the viewers didn't like George just added to her departure, which is why "furthermore" is used. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 19:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • That seems like PR stuff to be honest, and it doesn't gel. An approach based around 'Several reasons were given for George's character leaving the series' would work better; at present we've got the (somewhat difficult to believe) claim that George wanted to work on unspecified 'other projects' rather than this show, a statement that the character was going to end anyway (which means that George would have had no choice in the matter), and a statement that the character's unpopularity "also lead to the non-extension of George's contract" (which would also would have meant that George had no say, and the scriptwriters might not have been able to keep her if they'd wanted to). Nick-D (talk) 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ok, I rephrased, based on the news article it's from. I removed the bit about her being disliked, because the article was not specific about this. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 18:29, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She went onto say that Harris' personality branches much further than her sexuality." - what does this mean?
  • "George also stated that she was influenced by the outspokenness of Lisa Rowe, a sociopathic character from Girl, Interrupted (1999) played by Angelina Jolie." - unless George contributed to the scripts (which isn't stated), it's unclear what this is getting at - was the character influenced by Lisa Rowe, or George's portrayal of her? (or both?)
  • "Meredith's best friend is Cristina Yang (Sandra Oh); the latter becomes jealous of the friendship between Meredith and Sadie." - this appears in the middle of a paragraph without any context
  • The structure of the 'Reception' section is pretty unclear - the various reviews are placed in no clear order. Given the Australian media's generally sympathetic treatment of Australian actors who appear in major American TV series, I'd suggest separating these out as a starting point.
    • Character 'reception' sections are usually written in this fashion. See Poppy Meadow. The goal is to provide a survey of a variety of reviewers' opinions on the character. I did, however, group together the comments about her appendectomy and characteristics. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • The new structure works better. However, the review from The Age was written by Michael Idato, and not the paper's editors as stated at present. Nick-D (talk) 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Without having ever watched this show, it appears that the 'Storylines' section only includes some of the storylines relating to this character given what's mentioned in passing in the rest of the article.
  • As a general comment, I think that the article currently over-uses quotes from George and other people involved with the series; there are all pretty vacuous PR talk, and could be easily paraphrased.
    • I paraphrased a few, but there's really not that many quotes. Yes, small ones in 'reception', but reading a critic's actual words is beneficial to the reader. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The quotebox in the 'Casting and creation' section isn't linked to the rest of the section (which doesn't discuss George's experiances on set) Nick-D (talk) 11:00, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support My comments have now been addressed; nice work with this article. Nick-D (talk) 10:23, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • FN1: title of linked article doesn't match that used here
  • Fn16: what kind of source is this?
    • It's a special episode ABC aired. I couldn't find a RS, so I just used {{cite episode}}. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 03:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Okay, does it not have writer, director or episode number then? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • No, unfortunately none of that information is given in the video. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 14:11, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes this a high-quality reliable source? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:26, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'd say it's reliable. They're owned by the widely renowned NBCUniversal, and they have an editorial staff. However, if you feel it isn't, let me know, and I'll remove it. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 03:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image review: No complaints: all image's have good rationales. TBrandley 14:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

SupportComments: The article looks good for the most part. A few suggestions from me would not hurt, I thought:

  • "Introduced as a surgical intern who has an old friendship with the series' protagonist Meredith Grey (Ellen Pompeo), she eventually forms a friendship with Lexie Grey (Chyler Leigh), and departs after it is revealed she cheated her way into the surgical program." - reading this aloud feels a bit repetitive, probably because of "friendship".
  • "...received an invitation...", could be written as "was invited".
  • "...after the casting agents saw her in In Treatment (2008), a television drama." - again repetition, "in In". Could writing it as "after the casting agents saw her in the 2008 television drama In Treatment work?
  • Some words in the intro are a bit additive and unnecessary: "suddenly", "much" (in "much speculation"), "or not", "in an attempt"
  • I find there is a lot of the use of "it" when the pronoun does not specifically refer to anything, like "it was revealed (or confirmed/made known) that." and "it was her her decision to". What is "it"?
  • "She was initially written as a lesbian, but later changed to bisexual." - "but later changed to bisexual" sounds strange. Perhaps "but was revised as bisexual".
  • "She went on to say that Harris' sexuality is not the main aspect of her personality." - "went on to say" is wordy...a simple "said" or "added" is just right.
  • I'm finding more redundancies further down: "Jon Caramanica of the Los Angeles Times, less than impressed, was critical of her character development," - why "less than impressed" and "critical"? They imply the same thing, so cut one. "Less than impressed" also sounds euphamistic.
    • Reworded.

The prose is clear, but not perfect yet. It can be tightened with another look. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 15:02, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed comments from TBrandley moved to talk

  • Support on all criteria. TBrandley 02:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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