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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 04:27, 7 March 2009 [1].

Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall

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Nominator(s): Another Believer (Talk)

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it meets all FA requirements and album requirements as outlined here. I have also made improvements to the article based on a peer review session. Much appreciated! --Another Believer (Talk) 22:39, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ref formatting comment -- Ref formatting found up to speed using WP:REFTOOLS.--TRUCO 22:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as this is a very well written article and does a very good job of covering the subject LetsdrinkTea 02:05, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments -
  • Current ref 30 (Haggerty ..) needs a page number. The google books search link is not enough.
Done. Pg. 230 indicates Garland is an "important-to-gay-culture star".
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! --Another Believer (Talk) 19:05, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Both links have been corrected. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to improve the article. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:24, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, 1a: Comments: I intended to comment on this article in Peer review, but couldn't get to it in time. The article is in generally good shape, but there are numerous prose issues to be ironed out before it is of featured standard. The following comments relate only to the first few sections:
    • It needs to be made clearer that the second part of the opening paragraph of the lead is about Garland's 1961 album. I suggest that rather than "Her double album..." you begin "Garland's 1961 double album..."
Done.
    • "In response to the terrorist attacks the U.S. launched a War on Terror and eventually invaded Iraq in 2003." It isn't necessary to explain recent global events in such primary-school language; some reader awareness can be assumed: "The subsequent War on terrorism and invasion of Iraq caused Wainwright to become..." etc
Done.
    • Lumbering prose: "Stephen Oremus signed on to be the..." - "Stephen Oremus signed on as..."
Done.
    • Again: "Phil Ramone was put in charge of the audio recording." - "Phil Ramone took charge of the recording."
Done.
    • "Due to..." starts the last sentence of the Conception/development section and the first sentence of the next section.
Done. Changed first instance to "As a result of financial restrictions..."
    • "six times total" is journalistic shorthand, not good prose.
Suggestion? "a total of six times"? Other phrase?
Your suggestion is good. Brianboulton (talk) 20:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
    • "attributed to the amount of press received" - press attention?
Done.
    • "...and the interest in the other artists to participate in the event" - "and public interest in other participating artists"?
Comment: I am trying to say that there were many artists, designers, and celebrities that wanted to attend the concerts or get involved with the projects (provide clothing, promotional material, etc.) Suggestion?
OK, I misunderstood your meaning. Try "...and the eagerness of other artists to participate in the event" Brianboulton (talk) 20:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's misleading to begin a sentence "While the project fell through..." before indicating what project fell through.
Done.
    • Another lumbering sentence: "In return Wainwright wrote a song called "Ode to Antidote" for the design duo, allowing them to use the song to promote their cologne called Antidote"
Comment: I changed "in return" to "To return the favor" but I would like to know how else to improve the sentence.
Maybe: "To return the favor Wainwright wrote the song "Ode to Antidote", and allowed its use in the promotion of the design duo's cologne "Antidote".
Done.
    • "Wainwright's official site" - "website"?
Done.
    • "as well" and "and more" are both redundant in the celebrity participation list.
Done.

These are examples. The whole article needs to be checked carefully for similar prose faults. There are also a couple of dab links to fix, and the link in Ref. 28 doesn't work. Brianboulton (talk) 11:27, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I could not find a reference link that did not work. Could you please clarify?
The link in Ref 28 - Staged 'n Engaged - doesn't work for me. It may be my computer - check it out. Brianboulton (talk) 21:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, the link definitely works for me. From the Wikipedia article, I can click on the link and it takes me right to the E Online article. --Another Believer (Talk) 21:24, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you so much for your time, suggestions, and assistance.--Another Believer (Talk) 19:15, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: I have struck my oppose, as the prose has definitely improved. I have a few more comments on the remaining sections, which I will post tomorrow. Meanwhile, could you do me a favour and de-bold your "done" comments? They make speedy assessment of the article's support/oppose status difficult! Brianboulton (talk) 01:21, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing. Sorry for the confusion. --Another Believer (Talk) 03:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments

  • Songs: the quote beginning "Hailing from a golden era..." should be specifically cited rather than included in the blanket citation after the list of songs. Also, "flubbing" is not encyclopedic, and in any event this sentence requires citing to a source.
"Hailing" part has been cited. Regarding "flubbing", is it acceptable to use if that is what the album reviewer writes? I included a reference to this source, which mentions the flub. Or, does the word need to be changed entirely?
  • Gay elements: "Of particular note is Garland's status as a gay icon, even before Wainwright was born." This is cited to [30], an ebook, p. 230. This page was not available for viewing when I looked. Does the source say "of particular note", or is this authorial POV? You could say "Garland was a gay icon, even before Wainwright was born", or "Writer George E Haggerty notes that..." if the phrase is in the source. Personally I prefer the former.
Done. Now changed to "Garland was a gay icon, even before Wainwright was born." Also, I updated the url so that it directs the readers straight to pg 230 in the ebook. I hope this helps. "Of particular note" is not in the text, but I thought that might be a way to start the "Gay elements" section. It has now been removed.
  • "...(a phrase Time repeatedly uses to describe gay men)..." Who says that Time repeatedly uses this phrase? Again it sounds like POV unless you say who said it.
Done. I removed the parenthetical phrase.
  • Somewhere, possibly in the lead, it should be explained that Martha Wainwright is Rufus's sister. I suggest that this is noted in the lead.
Done. I also noted that Kate McGarrigle is Rufus' mother.
  • In my view there are too many direct quotations in the Critical reception section, some of which are long, and some not very elegantly put. Would it be possible to paraphrase some of these? Also I would expect he section to contain at least some sort of analysis of the reception comments, beyond "Overall the reception was positive." Some more work needed on this section, I think.
Removed some quotations, edited grammar on Holden sentence. Better? --Another Believer (Talk) 19:00, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "lifelong" is unhyphenated. Also, why is "pitch and articulation" in quotes?
Done.
  • Christgau's quote needs some closing quote marks.
Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:03, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will look again when you have responded to these final points. Brianboulton (talk) 15:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support: All the points raised by me have been resolved in a positive manner, and I am happy now to support the article. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments from ChrisTheDude
  • "released under Geffen Records" - is this a standard American usage? To me, saying that a record was released "under" a company sounds really really weird
Done. I changed "under" to "through".
  • The list of three guests in the last paragraph of the lead would read better if the two people who are related to Wainwright were listed together - currently the "his mother" is a bit isolated and makes it read in a rather illogical fashion
Done.
  • "caused Wainwright to become Wainwright to become" - stutter :-)
Done.
  • In the same sentence, the closing full stop should be placed outside the quote marks
Done.
  • "While driving in his car, Wainwright commented" - did he make this actual comment while actually driving in his car? If it means what I think it is meant to mean then it should be something like "Wainwright observed while driving in his car that "it [would] be funny to redo this as a song cycle". Soon afterwards, he took the idea....."\
Yes, he actually made the comment while driving in the car.
So did he say all of "it [would] be funny to redo this as a song cycle... And the next thing you know, it [was] happening" while in his car? Or did he only say the first part in his car and the second part is his later rumination on it.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:10, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ahhh, ok. Gotcha. The sentence has been updated, as suggested. Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 17:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Rufus wanted a feel for performing this material on a stage" - again, full stop should be outside quote marks
Done.
  • Song title "This Can't Be Love" is mis-spelt as "The Can't Be Love"
Done.
  • "While Wainwright did not in drag" - seems to be a word missing
Done. "While Wainwright did not dress in drag"...
  • "He also took "Get Happy" from the set and perform the tune" - mis-matched tenses
Done. Corrected.
  • "but anything that requires belting is pretty much a loss" - yet another full stop placed inside the quote marks when it should be outside
Done.
  • "Ain't nobody perfect" - and another one.....
Done.

All looks good other than these points -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:49, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much! --Another Believer (Talk) 19:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - all looks good now, well done -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image review:

I just copied the image from Judy Garland's wikipedia article--I did not upload the image. However, the description says: Cropped screenshot of Judy Garland from the trailer for the film Summer Stock. Does this need to be brought up with the individual that uploaded the image? --Another Believer (Talk) 16:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I had to reduce the size of File:Rufusdoesjudy.jpg; only the above niggle remains. Jappalang (talk) 10:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Will the nominator please resolve the outstanding image concern? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but I am not sure how to resolve this issue. I would hate for this image (that was not uploaded by me) to prevent the article from being recognized, so I will do anything I can to help. I believe the image may have been taken from this site (Main Page - MusicMe.com), because the image dimensions are identical. However, I am not sure how to make that site the source on the wikipedia file page. Help? I would message the user that uploaded the image, but Rossrs is currently on holiday. --Another Believer (Talk) 22:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, based on the file name (and how the musicme's site is in French), I would say that musicme copied the file from here. Anyway, I found the trailer on Turner Classic Movies, and it can be watched at a size close to the screenshot. We can reasonably state that the image was captured from there, so all issues resolved. Jappalang (talk) 23:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Jappalang! Much appreciated. --Another Believer (Talk) 23:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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