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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ojos del Salado/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 12 March 2024 [1].

Ojos del Salado

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Nominator(s): Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about one of the highest mountains in the Southern Hemisphere, and the highest active volcano in the world. Its geologic history isn't well known, but it has been the candidate highest mountain of South America for a long time and is drawing increasing visits by mountaineers and as a Mars analogue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per my pre-FAC review on the article's talk page. Hog Farm Talk 04:50, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kusma

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Planning to review. —Kusma (talk) 12:04, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Name section: doesn't "ojos del salado" literally mean something like "salty eyes"? The translation should be given so we can understand the theories. I don't quite see why the connection to the river is stated in wikivoice even though the source isn't great and a different theory is at least equally plausible. The French Wikipedia helpfully points out that "ojo" can mean both "eye" and "spring emerging in a plain" in Spanish, following Biggar who perhaps isn't the greatest source for etymology. Fortunately other sources like [2] agree that "ojo" is locally used for "source of a river". I have also read somewhere that there may be several local rivers called "rio salado" so the fact that there is another one further away doesn't really mean anything. Can you clarify this a bit?
  • The lead calls the mountain "Nevado Ojos del Salado"; this should be repeated in the name section with a translation of "nevado" (I don't speak Spanish but I think it just means "snowy").
  • Mountaineering and tourism: I am not sure this currently qualifies as "comprehensive". The German Wikipedia article contains a lengthy discussion of various "highest point reached with a motorised vehicle" type records that were all set at Ojos del Salado, and I think this is worth mentioning, perhaps with just a single paragraph like on the Spanish Wikipedia.

Will read the rest later. —Kusma (talk) 23:48, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will respond to the rest later, but wrt name, the frequency of toponym false friends in the world makes me wary of relying on translations. Good sources for that stuff are hard to come by, even for prominent mountains. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 09:50, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your reluctance, but the naming section should contain information about what the name means, and these particular false friends are discussed at least in moderate quality literature. Without knowledge that "ojos del salado" could mean "salty eyes" the sentence "the volcano was named after mineral deposits on its flanks" makes little sense; without the information that "ojos del salado" could mean "source of the river Salado", it is unclear why we should care that "the river Salado does not originate on Ojos del Salado". The bit with 1937 is even harder to understand: in 1937, the mountain was given a name that it already had before?? —Kusma (talk) 10:53, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And did the Polish expedition use the es:Río Salado (Chañaral) to get from the coast to the general area of the mountain, or was it a different es:Río Salado? —Kusma (talk) 11:30, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As far as my knowledge of Spanish grammar goes, "ojos del salado" means "eyes of the salty", not "salty eyes" (which would be "ojos salados"), hence I guess they thought it meant "spring of the Salado river". I think the problem is that Carter 1957 is not entirely clear on whether the boundary commission used the name OdS - Google Scholar and Google Books do not display any use before 1903. Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, they are hardly comprehensive. I've consequently rewritten the text a bit. As for the river, it's a different Salado river which runs from the Tres Cruces-Ojos del Salado range to Laguna Negra, Catamarca (specifically, the northern lake known as Laguna Verde) SW of Ojos del Salado; this river currently doesn't have an article on either Wikipedia.

Do we need a source for the Nevado translation?

WRT records Guinness World Records list several records encompassing the mountain, including transportation-wise. I figure there are many more, in sources of varying reliability (some of the German Wikipedia sources seem to be blogs by little-known people). If we are OK with using the Guinness World Records website as a source, I can write up a paragraph with [3][4][5][6] as sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:30, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It would be useful to mention the name of the river in the main text, so the reader doesn't think it is about a Rio Ojos. The footnote could explain better which Rio Salado is meant and how far away Cerro Solo is. For translating "nevado", I don't think we need a source; generally self-made translations are acceptable. The Guinness records sources seem acceptable to me, although a source that explicitly says that it is a popular spot for altitude records for vehicles would be nicer. —Kusma (talk) 21:22, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added the river name and put a source for "nevado" and "cerro" anyway.

This webpage is the closest thing to such a source we have, but it is a private website of the company Motorex so not really an ideal source. That's really the problem with these records; they are recorded mainly on such private websites and other low-quality sources. I figure that car magazines or the like might exist, such as this one by Are Media, but that's a type of source I know absolutely nothing about. I've written up a small section. That said, on WP:RSP it is noted that some folks worry about paid coverage in GWR, so I've been scanty about details.

Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:04, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing general review.

More soon I hope! —Kusma (talk) 21:43, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for not returning to this so far -- I've been busy at work and spent all my wikitime firefighting at DYK. —Kusma (talk) 09:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ice and glaciers: "The melting of the ice is expected to produce an increased discharge at first, but eventually ice diminishes to the point that runoff will decline." this seems to be a prediction for the future, do we know over what kind of timescales? Months to years? Years to decades?
    Decades, per the source, but it was in 2014 and I am not sure what a "timeless" formulation would look like. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Geology: "Ojos del Salado is part of the Pacific Ring of Fire" this sentence comes in the middle of describing the CVZ, which seems a somewhat awkward place, especially as (correct me if I am wrong) all of the South American volcanoes are part of the Ring of Fire. Suggest to either drop this or explain the Ring of Fire in the context of the section.
    You are wrong - Trindade and Martim Vaz are not part of the Ring of Fire, for example. That said, the main reason for this formulation is that while "Ring of Fire" seems to be a topic commonly mentioned in lay sources, the source here only attaches it to Ojos del Salado. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Should have said "western part of South America", but anyway, my concern is mostly the awkward placement of this factoid. —Kusma (talk) 14:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Even there, there are the Desventuradas Islands and others. Moved it up to a slightly better location and changed its source. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be nice to gloss words like "Miocene" on first use.
    Done for the geological periods, but you'll need to list any others that need explanation - as a connoisseur of geological literature, it's not obvious to me what needs glossing and what not. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the periods are the most important technical terms that need glossing. I appreciate that they are standard terminology (and the fact that I forget what they are a few weeks after each time I review one of your articles does embarrass me a bit) but non-experts will also want to read this article. —Kusma (talk) 14:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I believe I got all the geological periods? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Climate: "Compared to sites farther north falls primarily during winter although snowfall is common in summer." Something is missing in this sentence.
    Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is some redundancy between the glacier content here and the "Ice and glaciers" section above.
    Resolved. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Human history: "there is no evidence of them building any archeological sites" sounds weird to me. Would anyone build an "archeological site"? I would expect people to build houses or temples or tombs that become archeological sites centuries later.
    Reformulated. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would be nice to be told the height of Aconcagua for comparison.
    Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This pass done, happy to take another look if needed. —Kusma (talk) 21:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Vami

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Quid pro quo. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 09:54, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

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Putting down a marker for now (got one to do first, but should be here shortly). - SchroCat (talk) 09:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Name
  • The name "Ojos del Salado": italics and quote marks? I'm not sure both are needed and you don't italicise the name anywhere else
    Removed them. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:53, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Has this section (or at least the opening sentences) been moved here from somewhere else on the article? It seems to be jumping into the middle of things with a pre-supposition that we're aware of some other bits. Examples: "Ojos del Salad refers to a river[a] that the 1937 Polish expedition" (What Polish expedition? As it hasn't been introduced at this point it should at least be "a 1937 Polish expedition"); "used before by the Chile-Argentina boundary commission": which commission ("the" or "a" again) and a date would be helpful.
    I don't think so, but it can be shifted down I guess. WRT commission, there have been several commissions to delimit borders in the region; I figure it's the one in 1955 mentioned here but I don't know what it is called in Spanish. I've changed to "a" in both cases. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:53, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Geography

Down to the start of Lakes; more to come. – SchroCat (talk) 19:15, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Surroundings
Eruption history
  • "cubic kilometres per kiloare": per what? is there a measurement that people have heard of that can be used here instead? Failing that, can you add a footnote explaining what it is? (It's not a word in the OED or Websters – or even Wiktionary – so people will need a hand to understand what it means or they'll assume it's a mistake)
    That's interesting - "kiloare" is supposed to be "kiloannum" or "millennium" but the template's rendering as "kiloare" instead. I don't see where on Template:Convert the issue is. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:44, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's probably worth flagging it up as an error on the template page - if the wrong unit is being shown they need to get that fixed as soon as possible. - SchroCat (talk) 16:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Holocene
Ascents
  • "After the Polish expedition, the mountain remained unclimbed,": it may be better to put the "in 1955 after "unclimbed" – it feels a bit unconnected and disassociated from the point where it is.
    Is it this what you meant? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:44, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's my lot. Interesting article. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:42, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. All good from me, with the one reservation about the template that's putting out the wrong unit. As long as someone fixes the template, there's no reason why that shouldn't stop this going through. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 16:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Volcanoguy

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Geography and geomorphology

  • "flank the 1.3 by 0.5 kilometres (0.81 mi × 0.31 mi) wide summit crater". 1.3 by 0.5 kilometres (0.81 mi × 0.31 mi) wide should be 1.3-by-0.5-kilometre-wide (0.81 mi × 0.31 mi).
  • "A second 300–400 metres (980–1,310 ft) wide crater". 300–400 metres (980–1,310 ft) wide should be 300–400-metre-wide (980–1,310 ft).
  • "Thick short dacitic lava flows make up the core 13 by 12 kilometres (8.1 mi × 7.5 mi) area of the volcano but pyroclastic fall material covers much of the summit area." I think pyroclastic fall should link to pyroclastic fall.
  • "The massif rises about 2 kilometres (1.2 mi) above the surrounding terrain and covers an oval area of about 70 square kilometres (27 sq mi)-160 square kilometres (62 sq mi)". The last two converts would be better off as 70–160 square kilometres (27–62 sq mi).

Lakes

  • "it lies at 6,480 metres (21,260 ft)-6,500 metres (21,300 ft) elevation". 6,480 metres (21,260 ft)-6,500 metres (21,300 ft) should be 6,480–6,500 metres (21,260–21,330 ft).
    Problem is both values come from two separate sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:13, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Surroundings

  • "The volcano lies in the middle of an over 80 kilometres (50 mi) long east-west trending chain of volcanoes". 80 kilometres (50 mi) long should be 80-kilometre-long (50 mi) and there should be an en dash between east and west instead of a hyphen.

Geology

  • "The shallow angle may be a consequence of the subduction of submarine topography, such as the Copiapo Ridge at the northern and of the Juan Fernández Ridge at the southern margin of the gap." Should "such as the Copiapo Ridge at the northern and of the Juan Fernández Ridge" be "such as the Copiapo Ridge at the northern end of the Juan Fernández Ridge"?

Local

  • "Between 8-5 million years ago". En dash.

Eruption history

  • "3.3-1.5 million years ago". En dash.
  • "3.5-3.4 million years old". En dash.

That's it from me. Volcanoguy 23:45, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, save as commented. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:53, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Volcanoguy 15:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review: pass

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Alt text isn't strictly required for the FAC, so the image review is a pass, but I would still recommend it for accessibility and consistency. UndercoverClassicist T·C 17:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added some ALT text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments

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Thanks Jo-Jo, that looks good to me. I probably won't be doing a full review, but things seem to be ticking along nicely anyway. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:15, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update

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@FAC coordinators: This is waiting on a source review and more input, isn't it? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:17, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 00:50, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll go ping the people who commented on my previous FAC if that is no issue. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 11:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will carry out a source review tomorrow. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith (comments)

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It looks like this has a full quota of supports, so I'll just drop a few random comments.

Source review - pass

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Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC) All good then. Passing. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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