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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John Silva Meehan/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 15 September 2024 [1].

John Silva Meehan

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Nominator(s): Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 20:18, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John Silva Meehan was the fourth Librarian of Congress, serving for the three decades prior to the Civil War. The library was a pretty low-key institution at this time; only under Librarian Spofford did it truly become a "national library", and Meehan has received a fair bit of criticism for not getting the ball rolling on this beforehand. Prior to his librarian service, he had a brief and ultimately unsuccessful career as a partisan newspaper editor. I hope this is an enjoyable read to you all! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 20:18, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF - support

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I'll review this over the coming week. Hog Farm Talk 20:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • "he moved to Burlington, New Jersey to work as a printer " - while I disagree with it strongly, MOS:GEOCOMMA is part of the manual of style, so there should be a comma after New Jersey
    • Oops, fixed. - G
  • "Watterston was later described as having been a "librarian of one side of the aisle"" - by whom? The extent to which this quote can be taken at face value depends on if this is the conclusion of a modern historian, or if this is another Duff Green commentary
    • Added attribution. - G
  • "wished to hire an assistant editor at a significant lower rate than what he had agreed for Meehan" - while yes, this is true, I would argue that the use of "significant" here consitutes a form of original research, as we're only given the rates of $1,200 and $800.
    • Removed the word significant.
  • Our article on the City of Washington Gazette attributes the renaming to the United States' Telegraph to Meehan, but this renaming is never directly addressed in this article - can a simple statement that Meehan changed the name be sourced?
    • Done. - G
  • Is the correct spelling "Wharton" or "Warton" for his son's middle name? It looks like Nappo uses "Warton", but McDonough uses "Wharton"
  • McDonough states on page 12 that Meehan had a "reputation as a careful and precise businessman" and that he was thus asked to be the bookkeeper for several unrelated thimgs - is this worth mentioning alongside the Johnston quote?
    • Ooh, great idea! Since this was describing his contemporary reputation, I incorporated it into a paragraph further up into the article. - G

That's it for the first read-through. Hog Farm Talk 22:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

NØ

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Not a subject matter expert so I am just focusing on prose.

  • "After the firm moved to Washington, D.C., in early 1822, Meehan begun editing and publishing the Baptist weekly newspaper The Columbian Star." - Should this not be "began" instead?
    • Good catch, fixed. - G
  • "He attended school in New York, and later entered work as a printer." - There's a WP:CINS issue here which could be fixed by removing the comma.
    • Fixed. - G
  • Would a link to Baptists somewhere be overlinking?
    • Found a spot! - G
  • "He would leave the paper himself six months later, seeking to separate the Star from his entry into political writing." - nitpicky on my part but is this a better way to put it?: "Six months later, he would leave the paper himself, seeking to separate the Star from his entry into political writing."
    • I think so, fixed. - G
  • "Meehan diligently produced various "want lists" based on earlier catalogs." - It might be a good idea to have a reference directly present at the end of this sentence since there's a quote.
    • Added. - G
There are no major problems with the article from the areas that I analyzed it. Along with the prose, I also checked the alt texts and they look good and succinct. Good work!--NØ 05:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Journalist Arnne Royall ebuked him for his purchasing habits, claiming he had failed to "anticipate the research needs of legislators or scholars", and criticizing the acquisition of a number of books intended for Sunday school students." - Second comma should be removed
    • Fixed. - G
  • "Two major opportunities were presented to purchase expansive collections, but were both denied by Congress" - This comma should be removed as well
    • Done. - G
  • "with shelves placed in accordance to a modified version of Thomas Jefferson's original classification schema" - Shouldn't this be "accordance with a"?
    • Good point, fixed. - G
  • "Books were generally categorized by subject, and within subjects" - Remove this comma too
    • Done. - G
  • There is switching between "catalog" and "catalogue" in the article. The first one is preferred in American English.
    • Fixed. - G
  • "they simply waited out Mann's retirement and the beginning of the 33rd United States Congress, and continued the previous path." - Remove the comma, and this could probably convey the same point without "simply" for added concision!
    • Fixed. - G
Apologies for again raising a point I had touched on earlier after so many days, but the article needs combing through to conform to WP:CINS.--NØ 11:01, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Steelkamp

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I'll have a look at this too. If you would like to do a review, I've also got an article at FAC that needs reviews. These are my initial comments:

  • So there are several mentions of "Librarian of Congress" that do not conform with MOS:JOBTITLES. Instances of this I could find are:
    • "the fourth Librarian of Congress" -> "the fourth librarian of Congress".
    • "the Librarian of Congress since 1815" -> "the librarian of Congress since 1815".
    • "Senator James Pearce served as Meehan's partner and ally for much of his tenure as Librarian." -> "Senator James Pearce served as Meehan's partner and ally for much of his tenure as librarian."
    • "from the Joint Committee to the Librarian of Congress" -> "from the Joint Committee to the librarian of Congress"
    • "Rumors that the newly-elected Franklin Pierce had appointed a new Librarian of Congress troubled Meehan." -> "Rumors that the newly-elected Franklin Pierce had appointed a new librarian of Congress troubled Meehan."
    • "asking that Meehan be allowed to continue his role as librarian" -> "asking that Meehan be allowed to continue his role as Librarian"
    • "Meehan additionally served as the Secretary of the Board of Trustees of the Baptist Columbian College." -> "Meehan additionally served as the secretary of the board of trustees of the Baptist Columbian College."
    • Done. - G
  • Names with initials should have non-breaking spaces between the initials as per MOS:INITIALS. E.g. "C. H. Wharton Meehan" should be "C. H. Wharton Meehan", "E. B. Stelle" should be "E. B. Stelle", and "G. P. A. Healy" should be "G. P. A. Healy" instead (look at the wikitext).
    • Fixed. - G
  • "remained unimplemented" -> "were not implemented".
    • Fixed. - G
  • Does Librarian of Congress need to be linked twice in the lead?
    • Fixed. - G
  • There is a citation error with one of the journals.
    • Fixed. - G
  • There is an inconsistency between "U.S. Navy Agent" and "US" in the infobox.
    • Fixed. - G
  • Baptist can be linked in the lead.
    • Done. - G
  • "In January 1815, he returned to New York" -> "In January 1815, Meehan returned to New York".
    • Fixed. - G
  • "In Philadelphia, he partnered" -> "In Philadelphia, Meehan partnered"
    • Fixed. - G
  • "and the Luminary was shifted to a monthly publication." What was it before that?
    • Five times a year; added. - G
  • "The two also served as the chief editors" -> "The two served as the chief editors".
    • Fixed. - G
  • "Rev. James D. Knowles." Does rev stand for reverend? If so, can it be written out in full: "Reverend James D. Knowles".
    • Done. -G

Steelkamp (talk) 11:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Steelkamp: Okay! I think that's all. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:04, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Washington D.C." -> "Washington, D.C."
  • "using notes endorsed by John Peter Van Ness". Is this referring to banknotes? And what does "endorsed" mean exactly?
  • "the most sacred principles of the Constitution". Maybe link Constitution of the United States.
  • "1824 presidential election". Maybe link 1824 United States presidential election.
  • In what way did the election of Adams and the appointment of Clay violate the most sacred principles of the Constitution?
  • Does "Anti-Jacksonian" typically have a capital "A"? There are three instances of it with the "A" capitalised and one instance where it is not.
  • "describing him as the "abused citizen"" -> "describing him as an "abused citizen""
  • "above the political games and corruption that he attributed to the Adams administration." Who is doing the attributing? Meehan or Jackson?
  • "Green wrote to Andrew Jackson in April 23, 1829" -> "Green wrote to Andrew Jackson on April 23, 1829".
  • The Library of Congress is not linked in the body. Can a link to that page be fit in somewhere?
  • "through multiple Whig presidencies". Can Whig Party (United States) be linked?
  • "often not meeting or failing to achieve quorum." -> "often not meeting or failing to achieve a quorum."
  • "Joint Committee was generally" -> "The Joint Committee was generally".
  • "with specific funds funding the republication" -> "with specific funds for the republication".
  • "seeking plant specimens to plant in their home gardens." -> "seeking plant specimens for their home gardens."
  • I think the photo of Alexandre Vattemare should be moved down one paragraph so that it's directly next to the paragraph that he is mentioned in.
  • A non-breaking space should be added to "8:00 am" and "11:00 am" as per MOS:TIME.
  • "spring of 1853." This should be replaced with a month range or year quarter as per MOS:SEASON.
  • Link Smithsonian upon its first mention instead.
  • "still in affect" -> "still in effect".
  • "Rumors that Franklin Pierce". Should be mentioned that Pierce was the president.
  • 1860 United States presidential election is linked in the lead but not the body?

Those are all the comments I have. Overall, this is a well written and engaging article. Steelkamp (talk) 16:54, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Steelkamp: Thank you very much for the thorough review! I think I made all the new requested fixes. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 17:39, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks great! Support. Steelkamp (talk) 04:37, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

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  • Repetition of "served ... served ... service" in the first three sentences of the lead; suggested "worked" for the second one.
    • Done. - G
  • "he continued to serve as Green's editor": do we know what this really means? If Green was in control after 1826, was Meehan working at Green's direction, or was he more of a managing editor, handling the administrative side of the business? As written it sounds like he was editing Green's work, which doesn't jibe with Green having taken over control.
    • An assistant, I clarified this a bit. - G
  • Four instances of "large" or "largely" in the second paragraph of the lead. Suggest "a purge of numerous incumbent officials" for the first one. "... purchasing large volumes of books ..." is confusing because "volume" also means a physical book, so perhaps "restocking it with substantial purchases of books".
    • Ooh, good recommendations. - G
  • "although reforms such as an overhaul of the library's archaic catalogue system were not implemented": this makes it sound as if this reform was acknowledged as necessary at the time, but he failed to implement it. Is that the case? Or is it just that it was a later librarian who took this on? If so I'd suggest something like "although he left the library's archaic catalogue system unchanged". I see there's a mention of an attempt by Jewett and the Smithsonian to recatalogue the library that Meehan opposed; is this what is being referred to?
    • Yeah, I was noting the Smithsonian part; but I moved this to the next part you suggested. - G
  • "rarely shifted library policy": can we get a more specific indication of what historians think he should have done but didn't?
    • added context. - G
  • "placing Meehan into editorship of the paper": simpler as "making Meehan the editor" or "leaving Meehan as editor".
    • Done. - G
  • "seeking to separate the Star from his entry into political writing": I don't know what this means.
    • Clarified. - G
  • The article says the Jackson campaign indirectly purchased the Gazette, but the next sentence hedges this by saying "the purchase was likely directed". Is it definite that the Jackson campaign made the purchase happen, or not?
    • Oops, changed some sentence ordering here. Jackson's campaign did it; its not definite that it was specifically Eaton. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure the details are needed here. - G
  • 'claiming Meehan held an "indiscriminate opposition"': suggest 'claiming Meehan's editorials [or "articles", or "opinions"] amounted to "indiscriminate opposition"'.
    • Done. - G
  • "with pro-administration presses": I think this needs to be "with the pro-administration press".
    • Done. - G
  • "Watterston sought to transform the Library of Congress into a national library, which Jacksonians feared would represent increased federal power." I don't understand this. I don't think I really know what is meant by "national library" beyond the obvious sense that it's a library established by a national law (in which sense the LoC already was a national library), and in what way can a library be seen as a dangerous element of federal power?
    • Clarified. -G
  • "describing various maintenance taken": I don't think "maintenance" can take "various" as an adjective. Suggest "describing the maintenance needed" or "describing the various maintenance tasks needed".
    • Fixed. - G
  • "Journalist Anne Royall rebuked his purchasing habits" and "Meehan rebuked criticism": the direct object of "rebuke" has to be a person; the criticism or habits have to be the indirect object.
    • Fixed. -G

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from PMC - pass

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Incoming - will try to do today or tomorrow. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting / nitpicking
Spot checks

Performed at whim

  • Both Carter cites substantively good (fixed a minor typo of May 23 to May 24 as both McDonough and Carter said 24)
  • Smith: Ref 9, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, all good.
    • I think ref 14 is attributed to the wrong source - pages 39-40 of Smith don't seem to support any of this, and it's attached to another Smith ref
      • Huh. I think thats a mistake - removed it.
  • McDonough: ref 32, 25, 35, 40, 41, 48 good
    • ref 31 supports the first sentence with the appropriation amounts, but I don't see where page 8 discusses Meehan being criticized for buying popular books (doesn't look like it's on p9 either)
    • Fixed. - G
  • Ostrowski 2000: ref 28, 34, 45, all good

I have no major concerns regarding sourcing. Just those few corrections and then we should be good to go. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:31, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

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Overall
  • There are a several places where WP:LQ has been left behind, and the closing quote mark is placed after the full stop: you should ensure that only full sentences are dealt with this way and that sentence fragments have the full stop after the quote marks.
    • I was unable to find any violations of this; all the sentences that end with a period before the quotation are from the end of sentences. - G
      • Anything that is not a full grammatical sentence should have the full stop outside the quote marks. The following is a (possibly non-exhaustive) list of examples: "purely an act of political patronage." "said to be twice as large as any in Washington." "truly beautiful." - SchroCat (talk) 07:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oops. Turns out I misunderstood that part of the MOS: i thought it meant full sentences within the context of the original work. Oops! Now it has been fixed for realsies. @SchroCat: Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However" should only be used at the start of a sentence on rare occasions, and you have if five times in such a position and twice in mid-sentence. You should trim most of the instances used here, given it's one of the words overused by Wiki editors for no beneficial purpose
    • Good advice, reduced. - G
Lead
  • "After this, he saw a brief period of service" is a bit clunky: maybe just "He briefly served" (without the 'After this')
    • Fixed. - G
  • "Returning without seeing combat": The "Returning" is a bit odd without either a 'from' or 'to'. Maybe "After the war" or similar
    • Good idea, fixed. - G
  • "Congress via the spoils system and Green's urging": This needs a tweak, as he wasn't appointed via Green's urging, which is what it says. Maybe tweaking to "Congress via the spoils system and with Green's urging"
    • Fixed. - G
  • "A large fire in December 1851 saw the destruction": Did it see the destruction, or did it cause it?
    • Good fix. - G
Early life
  • "He served as a midshipman on the USS Firefly during the War of 1812, assigned as the flagship of a small group of commerce raiders in the West Indies": This is a bit of an odd sentence. It starts with Meehan as the subject, then switches to the Firefly; the first time I read it (in a slight rush), I thought Meehan was assigned as a flagship
    • Made this two sentences instead. - G
Publishing career
  • "Six months later he would leave the paper himself": I think you need to clarify who "he" is. I think it may be better framed as "Six months later Meehan left the paper," – which is much clearer and cleaner
    • Fixed. - G
  • "Meehan was additionally hired as Green's assistant": You don't need "additionally"
    • Fixed. - G
  • "although he continued to serve as Green's editorial assistant until 1829": you mention in the preceding paragraph that in 1826 he was employed as this for three years, so you don't need to repeat it again.
    • Fixed. - G
  • The Duff Green quote feels slightly disconnected from the relevant paragraph. Maybe moving it from a quotebox to a blockquote directly under the description of Green writing a letter
    • Good idea. - G
  • "than what he had agreed for Meehan": grammatically a little off (in BrEng at least): "than that he had agreed for Meehan" or "than that agreed for Meehan" are both a bit smoother and cleaner
    • Interesting, the former sounds a bit better better to my ears; if it's a potential for confusion though, I fixed it. -G
  • "through "cajolery, threats, and flattery"." This needs in-text attribution, I think.
    • Fixed. - G
Tenure
  • "containing about 16,000 books" -> "and contained about 16,000 books"
    • Fixed. - G
  • "based off Baconian conceptualization of knowledge" -> " based off the Baconian conceptualization of knowledge"
    • Fixed. - G
  • "size, or form" Does this need to be in quotes?
    • Fixed. - G
  • "a number of": best to swap this out for 'numerous' or 'several': at some point someone will replace it and say that zero is a number. (I'm not entirely convinced on their arguments as it's clear from the context, but you may as well future proof if possible)
    • Fixed. - G
Removal
  • "Meehan calmly left his duties" -> "Meehan left his duties" – no need for editorialising
    • Fixed. - G
Legacy
  • "during his tenure": you can lose these three words – he wasn't going to change anything outside his tenure, was he?
    • Fixed. - G
  • What is a "Later historian"? Why not just "Historian", given you date his observations to the year 2000?
    • Good point, fixed. -G

That's my lot – a list of niggles, rather than anything problematic – this is a very interesting and well-written piece, and thank you for it. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 11:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by (for now) from UC

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  • The blockquoted letter from Duff Green has some odd line breaks. Are these original? If so, MOS:CONFORM may apply, if there's no good reason to believe that they change our reading of the letter.
  • There are a few cases where a quotation ends a long-ish sentence and the period/full stop is placed inside the quotes: it should generally be outside (see MOS:LQ).

UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, thank you UndercoverClassicist: I fixed the LQ issue and removed the line breaks in the letter. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Rjjiii

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I accessed and checked one source, McDonough (1976), for WP:OR, WP:V, WP:CV, and WP:NPOV. Below I've made some notes. I think the article meets NPOV and am just noting how/why for future editors. The other issues are minor.

  • "he renamed the United States' Telegraph": Does one of the other cited sources verify this? McDonough uses the passive voice, so it's not clear who changed the name.
    • Smith doesn't, so I made this passive too to match. -G
  • Meeting NPOV: McDonough (1976) and the Wikipedia article frequently mention James Pearce and the Library of Congress. Both mention the library more than Pearce.
  • "on the grounds that he was a monolingual English speaker": I'm not seeing this on page 6?
    • Interesting. I checked all the sources I could have gotten this from, and I can't find anything. I may have misread something or gotten it mixed up with another source. Just removed that. - G
  • "... he retained his position through multiple Whig presidencies.": I see this on page 22 but not on 6.
    • Oops, fixed. - G
  • This is off-topic, but multiple overlapping and conflicting catalogs sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
  • Meeting NPOV: The article attributes value judgements to McDonough or to others cited by McDonough, like Clay's over-the-top comparison to the mythic burning of the Library of Alexandria.
  • "following the purchase of 36,000" books?
    • Oops, fixed. - G
  • Do we know why Meehan opposed Charles C Jewett's catalogging? Rivalry, stubborness, difficulty? McDonough gives the "useless" quote from Meehan but in a way that's not endorsing Meehan at his word.
    • Sadly none of the sources goes into detail on Meehan's opinion here.
      • Well, dang, - RJJ
  • No copyright violations. All quotes attributed.
  • Two phrasings are possibly WP:CLOP:

MD: "Meehan died suddenly, of apoplexy, at his residence on South B Street, Capitol Hill,"
WP: "Meehan died suddenly from apoplexy at his residence in Capitol Hill, Washington"

MD: "in 1818, began publishing the Latter Day Luminary, a religious journal issued five times a year, sponsored by a committee of the board of managers of the Baptist General Convention."
WP: "began publishing the Latter Day Luminary in 1818, a Baptist religious journal sponsored by the Baptist General Conference"

    • Fixed both of these. - G

And that's it. Hope that helps, Rjjiii (talk) 02:58, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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