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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John Oliver/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 29 August 2023 [1].

John Oliver edit

Nominator(s): MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:06, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Praise be to our favorite hostus mostus, megareverend, sewer plant, koala chlamydia ward, singer, debt buyer, hornbill, and Reddit icon. John Oliver is one of the most iconic news comedians of our time, having been credited with influencing US law and culture, a phenomenon dubbed the "John Oliver effect" and impacting things from net neutrality to DC statehood. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:06, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:34, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments

Article seems to be missing references to scholarly sources such as: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8] (t · c) buidhe 01:08, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe, thanks for finding these- some have been added, the others weren't particularly relevant or helpful to this article. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:59, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: the article cites International Business Times, which is considered unreliable per WP:IBTIMES. IDK if it's syndicated, in which case it might be reliable, but it's there... so... I thought I might point that out. Pamzeis (talk) 08:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Cut- thanks for bringing it up! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by FrB.TG edit

  • "In addition, Oliver co-hosted the comedy podcast The Bugle with Andy Zaltzman, with whom Oliver had previously co-hosted the radio series Political Animal, and hosted John Oliver's New York Stand-Up Show on Comedy Central from 2010 to 2013." The word host is used three times in such short proximity.
  • "For his work on Last Week Tonight, Oliver has won fourteen Emmy Awards and two Peabody Awards and was included in the 2015 Time 100" - was his inclusion in the Time 100 specifically because of the show? I believe it played a big hand in that but I would say such inclusions are because of an individual's overall influence in a given year.
    • The Time article honoring him mainly discusses his contributions to the Society of Women Engineers. This is from an episode of LWT about the Miss American pageant, where he exposed false claims that Miss America was the leading provider of scholarships to American women; at the end of the episode, he encouraged viewers to donate to other organizations instead, specifically the SWE. As a result, the SWE received a $25,000 spike in donations in the days after the broadcast. So, the reason he was honored is connected to LWT, if not indirectly. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:22, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Oliver received Emmy Awards for outstanding writing" - do we have a Wikipedia article for the category? If yes, I would link it.
  • "In 2008, Oliver played Dick Pants in The Love Guru, being his first film role" - prose redundancy. The sentence would still be correct and mean the same thing without "being".
  • "During the summer of 2013" - see MOS:SEASON.
  • One example of Oliver's investigative work is a segment on the Miss America organization, which bills itself as "the world's largest provider of scholarships for women." See MOS:LQ for the full stop within the quotation mark.

That's it. Nice work. FrB.TG (talk) 10:41, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@FrB.TG: Thank you very much for your review, think I've addressed everything. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:22, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support FrB.TG (talk) 09:08, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NØ edit

  • "For his work on Last Week Tonight, Oliver has won fourteen Emmy Awards and two Peabody Awards and was included in the 2015 Time 100, being described as a "comedic agent of change...powerful because he isn't afraid to tackle important issues thoughtfully, without fear or apology". - This sentence is too long imo.
  • I believe a subject's full birth name is supposed to be repeated once in the first section of the article; in this case, "Oliver was born on 23 April 1977 in Birmingham, England" should be "John William Oliver was born on 23 April 1977 in Birmingham, England"
  • Some of the sentences should not have commas, for example:
    • "Oliver attended the Mark Rutherford School in Bedford, and learned to play the viola as a child."
    • "The two married in October 2011, and have two sons"
  • I did a random spotcheck and ref 4 doesn't seem to back up that Oliver joined the Daily Show in July 2006 or that he was the "Senior British Correspondent". I am seeing that he played an "on-the-road correspondent", though, and the source backs up the bit about Gervais.
  • "Oliver received Emmy Awards for Outstanding Writing for a Variety Series on The Daily Show" - did he receive the awards on the Daily Show or for it?
  • "Oliver says he has full creative freedom, including free rein to criticise corporations, given HBO's ad-free subscription model" - I'm not sure this should be present tense. Something like "has stated" might be better.
  • New York City is included as an example of locations that do not need a wikilink at MOS:OL
  • "Oliver and Last Week Tonight were accused of liberal bias" - have these accusations stopped now? This sounds like the type of sentence I would expect to be present perfect: "Oliver and Last Week Tonight have been accused of liberal bias"
  • "Furthermore, a study conducted in 2018 found ...", "Ultimately, the FCC enacted ..." - I've been told to avoid words like "Furthermore", "Ultimately", "Therefore", etc. if possible.
  • The tables should have captions.
I've limited my review to prose. Even though I haven't done a comprehensiveness check or looked at any scholarly sources, there don't seem to be any glaring omissions in the article. Great work.--NØ 18:27, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@MaranoFan: Thanks you very much for the review- think I've addressed everything. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:59, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support for promotion. Bravo on the prompt responses! I really respect editors who are able to take BLPs to FAC as it is no easy task. Regards.--NØ 19:03, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks- and also thanks for the table caption fixes, was shaking my head when I saw the error! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:18, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BennyOnTheLoose edit

Looks good, I can't see any major issues. Feel free to challenge any of my points below. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@BennyOnTheLoose: Think I've addressed everything, thanks for the thorough review- you raised many helpful points! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me)

(also not me) (still no) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Support. I'm satisfied with the responses to my comments and that the article meets the criteria. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:14, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a reason to include citations in the lead? (MOS:LEADCITE) (I think British-American follows from place of Birth and later citizenship, but I guess a citation in the lead for that isn't bad if it's not explicit in the article body.
    • Ref 3 is there due to the quote and ref 2 is there because Oliver is widely to be an exclusively British individual; he was, after all, the "Senior British Correspondent" on TDS. Ref 1 is for the middle name. I now realize I addressed these points backwards- oh, well. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Middle name- is there a better source than biography.com? No consensus on reliability at WP:RSP.
  • He commented in an appearance on Late Night with Seth Meyers, - "In an appearance on Late Night with Seth Meyers, he commented," seems better to me but I make no claims to being a good writer and you can treat any prose suggestions from me as optional.
  • Oliver revealed in a later Seth Meyers appearance that one of his first paying jobs was writing for the British morning show The Big Breakfast - "revealed" seems a bit much considering what he was talking about.
  • 2009,[30] 2011,[31] and 2012.[32] - great for verification but I think it would look nicer to have all the citations at the end.
  • 1985–2005: Early career and 2006–2013: The Daily Show with Jon Stewart seems lacking much in the way of how his various early career endeavours were received. Are there any reviews in major outlets that could be mentioned? (I haven't read the sources for reception sectione in Legacy, but looks like they are likely commentary on his later career.
    • The paragraph just before "2014-present" discusses his well-received tenure on TDS, and that references many reviews but does not actually quote any or name any reviewers. Sadly, for his earlier stuff, there is very little content on even their existence; I relied heavily on dead websites that were there when I started revising the article for that time of his career. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "(season twenty-five, episode twenty-one)", "(season one, episode three)", " (season one, episode three)" seems like a bit too much detail for the text. I'd suggest moving those details into the later table, and adding the years in the text. (e.g. "as Booth Wilkes-John (2014").
  • I don't think the "Title card for Last Week Tonight with John Oliver" image adds much.
    • Well, there's no other images available for this period that are particularly relevant or not used elsewhere in the article, so it seemed to add a splash of color (also, it was a suggestion from the GA reviewer, but I agree with the suggestion). MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 2018, Oliver began working as an executive producer for Wyatt Cenac's Problem Areas until its cancellation in June 2019. - reword.
  • Oliver lives in New York City - probably uncontroversial, but the source is from 2010. Is there any more recent reliable source?
  • .[1][95][96][97] - consider using WP:CITEBUNDLE
  • Oliver has a younger sister who lives in Australia - source is from 2015, is there any more recent reliable source for "lives in Australia"?
  • His Anglicanism lapsed when he was aged 12 because of the death of a school friend and an uncle, and a feeling of not having received any useful answers from his church - maybe add the equivalent of "he said" at the start.
  • I'm not sure how well Brexit and Boris Johnson are known globally; consider adding brief descriptions unless you're confident they are generally known.
    • I understand adding a clarification to Boris, but I think Brexit is very well-known; if the reader in unaware, they can always click the wikilink. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In addition, Oliver has expressed support for.. - so many citations, but seems reasonable to include lots here and against the relevant things. I'd suggest slightly expanding (by a few words each) some of the issues/causes though. I'm looking at immigration/criminal justice reform/police reform; my guess without reviewing the sources is he probably tends towards a more liberal approach, but the current wording doesn't indicate which way he leans.
    • Well, the difficulty with saying whether it's liberal or not is that I could get dangerously close to OR. Most of the sources just regurgitate what he said in the episode, something like "Oliver slammed lethal injections". Matters that are partisan issues are easy to deduce- supports abortion rights and gun control? Liberal. In my opinion, the political status would be hard to put, but I did clarify some of the issues. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any reason why the film table isn't sorttable? I appreciate it's a lot smaller than the TV table.

Comments by Bneu2013 edit

Staking a claim - will have comments tomorrow. I'd appreciate if someone would be willing to review one of my FACs. Bneu2013 (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Bneu2013, polite reminder :) MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:49, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reminder. As all my comments have been addressed, I am lending my support. Bneu2013 (talk) 13:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for the delay. Note that I am back in school once again, and so my schedule is very dynamic and constantly changing. Bneu2013 (talk) 19:37, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bneu2013, completely understand, no worries. I've implemented everything you mentioned. As for guest appearances, the LWT section doesn't only cover his time on the show but all his career activity from 2014 to now; LWT is just the name of the section. Same idea with how the 2006 to 2013 section is titled "The Daily Show" but isn't exclusively about that. Thanks for the review! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, also, "Dr." was not implemented. Oxford English standards state that Dr is not followed with a period. And, dual nationalities is typically hyphenated, per MOS:DUALNATIONALITIES. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bneu2013? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does "British-American" need to be hyphenated?
  • Dr. Ian Duncan.
  • Why is the paragraph about Oliver's guest appearances in the Last Week Tonight section? Isn't this kind of off-topic?
  • and one the other born in 2018
  • Change "30 October 2009" to "three days prior" or something equivalent.
  • Flip refs 100 and 7 in "Personal life". Ditto 140 and 138 and any other instances of this.
  • the FCC received with 3.7 million comments on the subject

Source review - pass edit

Looking at reliability first.

  • Biography.com is of uncertain reliability; see WP:RSP. Can it be replaced? (It's used twice.)
    • Originally thought it wasn't, but found another source that stated his middle name- it's been replaced
      It's still used for the marriage date. Searching Google Books finds a mention of the marriage date (2011, but not the month) on p. 217 of Curt Hersey's A History of Television News Parody. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Thanks for finding that, I forgot about the grouped citation- it's been replaced
  • What makes the following reliable sources?
    • tellyspotting.org
      • Cut
    • popcultureclassics.com
      • First, it's the only source I could find that explicitly states he acted on People Like Us. The about page of the site says it's written by a common journalist for a number of sites, and the source in question (which is an interview) was conducted by this guy. See his verified MuckRack profile here.
        The fact that he's written multiple articles for reliable sources certainly helps, but those sources are reliable by virtue of their editorial control. I don't think we can say the same for Freeman's own site. Is there evidence that popcultureclassics.com is treated as a reliable source by other sources? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm really not sure. I've cut it and replaced it with a streaming service that does list his role, but if this isn't proper usage, let me know
        I think that's fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • splitsider.com
    • comedy.co.uk -- the about page says it's "fan-run".
      • Cut. I had to cut some statements because I couldn't find anything else to back them.
    • blogcritics.org
      • Cut
    • chortle.co.uk -- I can see this is probably regarded as reliable now, but per our page about it the site was originally a one-man operation, and this is a 2007 citation so might well predate the site's expansion. Was it reliable then?
      • Cut
    • HuffPost -- see the discussion of "HuffPost contributors" at WP:RSP. All three uses of HuffPost seem to be straightforwardly factual, so are probably OK, but if you can find better sources I would suggest doing so.
      • Most are double cited to back small pieces of info in the prose- in my opinion, the usage is appropriate
    • military.id.me (The Sitrep)
      • It is the only source I could find that explicitly stated he sometimes wears the pin. I see nothing to suggest it isn't reliable, and the evidence is provided in the article
        I'm not keen on videos provided by sources that are not themselves reliable, but that might be OK if the video were still available. I just get "video unavailable" when I go to that page, though, so we do need positive evidence of the source's reliability. I think the Letterman video (linked from the other source you give) suffices for most of what you say, though it doesn't say she was a combat medic. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        Cut the source, wasn't sure if the Letterman clip was enough but it's good to know it is

I'll continue with the review once these are addressed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:59, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie: Think I've got everything, thank you very much for the comments thus far. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 04:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Christie: Got everything again, thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:34, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Christie, I've responded to the Splitsider concern above- thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:12, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, have been unexpectedly busy IRL. Will try to get back to this tonight. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will look at formatting next.

  • Check for consistency in use of publisher locations -- e.g. Hersey in FN 89 has a location, as does Krutkowski in FN 138, but Happer et al (FN 110) does not.

More tomorrow. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed- thanks again! Take all the time you need, no rush at all. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:27, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was able to get to some of this tonight. Footnote numbers refer to this version.

  • Looks like some more inconsistency in use of location with cite news. It's OK to e.g. have the location only when it's not clear from the work, so you could put London in for the Daily Telegraph, but not bother for the New York Times, for example. Here you have just two or three locations among scores of them. It should be consistent; probably the easiest thing would be to remove the ones you have.
  • What's the reasoning behind your use of the publisher parameter for websites? For example, FN 202 uses publisher but not work/website; FN 151 has the reverse.
  • For iamjohnoliver.com you use the domain name, which you don't do elsewhere; any reason not to use the website name, which is just "John Oliver"?

Can't see any other formatting issues. Will check links tomorrow and scan the citations again as I go through. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cut the locations (I think, let me know if I missed one) and fixed John Oliver's site (my reasoning was that it may be confusing if the pub is the name of the article, but it's probably fine). As for publishers, I used the publisher parameter for non-works (e.g. an article covering the Peabodys in Deadline Hollywood would use the work parameter, but the Peabodys profile for LWT on their website would be the publisher). If there's any specific sites where you think the publisher should actually be the work (or vice versa) let me know. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 02:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I removed one more location. Re the publisher: I'm not sure what distinction you're making -- the "work" and "website" parameters are actually the same thing; they're synonyms. That doesn't mean you're wrong to draw this distinction, but I don't think I understand it -- can you clarify? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:03, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think I confused myself between the cite news and cite web templates, sorry about that.
For cite news: If the article's subject is part of the organization that released it (e.g. the WGA releasing the WGA Award winners) then WGA would be the publisher. If the article is covering something unrelated, it goes in the work/name of publication parameter (whichever is appropriate).
Cite web: Same as above, just the same for the publisher parameter and using the website parameter instead of the work. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK; I don't think I've run into that approach before, but it appears to be consistently implemented, so no problem. Will look at links next. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Links. Footnote numbers refer to this version. The Internet Archive is responding very slowly for me so I've only checked a handful of the archive links.

  • FNs 35, 51 & 159. need to be marked as dead.
  • FN 53 is either dead or there's something else wrong; I can't check because I can't bring up the archive link either.
  • I doubt the rottentomatoes.com links are actually dead but none of them are responding for me; can you check you can access them?
  • Suggest marking FNs 96, 119, 158 & 160 as subscription required.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:20, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie, I think 53 was usurped- it and the others have been marked as dead. Rotten tomatoes works just fine for me. Added subscription tags. Thank you very much for the thorough review! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Question for coords edit

May I open another candidacy? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You may. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:57, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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