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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13 April 2020 [1].

I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song) edit

Nominator(s): Toa Nidhiki05 00:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I think it's finally ready for review. I've been working on this on-and-off for years and was content with it at GA status, but a movie about the song was released in 2018 and that helped flesh out a lot of elements that had been unclear before, and the promotion of Almost There to FA helped give it a push. For those unfamiliar, this is the best-selling and most-played contemporary Christian song of all time and the signature song of the band MercyMe, one of the most successful Christian bands of all time. Oddly enough, it's had three distinct chart runs since its release in 2001: in 2001-02 it was on Christian radio, peaking at #1 on the Christian charts, then it crossed over to mainstream radio in 2003-04, becoming a big hit on AC stations, and finally, in 2018, it re-entered again, peaking at #1 on the Billboard Christian Songs chart and #10 on the Digital Songs chart. Along the way it has briefly charted in France, been adapted into a film that was the highest-grossing independent movie of 2018, and has been covered by other artists, with several versions charting on their own. It's an unusually long-lasting song and I think it would be a really excellent and unique addition to our FAs. Toa Nidhiki05 00:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from John M Wolfson edit

  • the band's independent album should perhaps be linked to the article independent music to clarify it; as such, per WP:DUPLINKS, the link in the body should thus be removed.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • it would be like to be before God in heaven should be "in front of" to avoid confusion with the temporal sense of that word.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • with just a piano before building to include perhaps the "just" should be removed, though I'll see how other reviewers respond to it.
    My justification here is to clarify that the song begins with only piano and vocals. Saying just "piano and vocals" might imply there are other instruments there; the "just" is to clarify that the song opens only with them. Toa Nidhiki05 00:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Chart positions should be written as "number one", "number 71", etc., per MOS:NUMBER, rather than "No. 71", if I'm not mistaken.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 00:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second linked instance of 33rd GMA Dove Awards should be removed per DUPLINKS.

That's all for now. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:56, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: I must mention that I intend to claim WikiCup points for this review. Thanks! – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:58, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Independent dates, such as October 12, 2001, are followed by a comma per the MOS (unless followed by other punctuation) even when one is not otherwise warranted.
    This should be fixed now. Toa Nidhiki05 14:17, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There should be more citations in the second paragraph of the "Background and recording" section; while it's not a dealbreaker as it currently is, it'd be better to have such citations.
    I added an additional citation in one of the more lengthy sections. To my recollection, longer sections drawn from the same source don’t require multiple citations unless there’s a direct quote, however. Toa Nidhiki05 14:17, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It is standard practice in FAs, although by no means mandatory, for a citation to follow every sentence.

That's all I can think of, otherwise I'd be inclined to support. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 00:41, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Aoba47 edit

Addressed comments
  • I would avoid repeating "written" twice in this part: (Written and composed by lead singer Bart Millard, the song was originally written for the band's 1999 independent album The Worship Project).
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 02:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am uncertain about the second and third sentences of the lead's first paragraph because they both have a similar structure with "the song...". It may be helpful to change it up to keep the reader engaged in the prose.
    Changed one of them. Toa Nidhiki05 02:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with John M Wolfson's comment about that chart positions should be written out in full rather than "No. 71". I also agree with their comments that "just" in this part "it opens with just a piano before building to include guitar and drums." is unnecessary.
    This was fixed but got reverted. Toa Nidhiki05 02:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a comment about this sentence: ("I Can Only Imagine" received positive reviews from critics, with some calling it the best song on Almost There). I have often see the sentence structure, "with X verb-ing", discouraged in FACs so it may be beneficial to revise this. I personally do not have a strong opinion either way, but just something worth noting.
    I've modified this; let me know if you like it. Toa Nidhiki05 02:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (and as of April 2018 it has sold over 2.5 million copies.), I would add a comma between "2018" and "it".
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 02:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link MercyMe the first time they are mentioned in the body of the article.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this sentence (In the last phases of the album's production, MercyMe needed one more song to include on the album.), I would avoid repeating "the album" twice in the same sentence.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this sentence (Millard began to write a song, basing it off on his personal feelings about his father Arthur's death.), I think you can replace "Millard" with "He" since it is clear from the context of the previous sentence.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (but after several failed attempts Millard talked with), I would add a comma between "attempts" and "Millard".
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 14:40, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are instances where heaven is capitalized (In the song, the narrator wonders what it would be like to stand before God in Heaven.) and not capitalized (Lyrically, it imagines what it would be like to be before God in heaven). I honestly do not know which way is "correct", but I would be consistent with one way or the other.
    I’ve changed the first usage; all other usages are now in lowercase with one exception, which was part of a quote so we probably don’t want to modify that one. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part ("I Can Only Imagine" was named the official inspirational song for the state of Oklahoma in 2018), I am uncertain if state needs to be linked.
    Unlinked for now. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This part (the movie was released to theaters on March 16, 2018) is missing a period.
    Corrected now. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (It received mixed to positive reviews from critics), I would add a comma after "critics".
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are instances where the Oxford/serial comma is used (behind only The Passion of the Christ, Son of God, and Heaven Is for Real) and is not used (behind Bohemian Rhapsody, Straight Outta Compton and Walk the Line) so I would make sure to consistent with one way or the other.
    Corrected to use the serial comma consistently here. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (And was also the highest-grossing independent film of 2018), I do not believe "and" should be capitalized.
    Good catch, fixed. Toa Nidhiki05 14:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The citation used for this sentence "It ranks as the fourth-highest grossing music biopic of all-time in the United States (behind Bohemian Rhapsody, Straight Outta Compton and Walk the Line)." redirects to the Box Office Mojo homepage so I would mark the reference as dead so the citation defaults to the archived version.
    Good catch, corrected it. Toa Nidhiki05 14:39, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am confused by the Box Office Mojo ranking. For instance, the archive version used in the article (here) places I Can Only Imagine as the fifth-highest grossing after Coal Miner's Daughter, but later versions of the list (like this one) place it as the fifth-highest grossing after Rocketman. I am not sure how to address this though.
    I’m not sure about this either. It’s also hard to get clarity since Box Office Mojo redesigned and nerfed the site. I’ve gone ahead and updated to the most current version. Toa Nidhiki05 14:39, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I would add something like "As of (insert date of the archived version of the website)" as this ranking is liable to change in the future as more and more music biopics are released in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 19:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Good idea, done. Toa Nidhiki05 01:22, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (After consulting with his pastor, who felt Millard should accept the opportunity, Millard began to reconsider), I would replace the second instance of "Millard" with "he" to avoid repetition.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 16:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do not think "finally" is necessary in this part (and finally agreed to let her cover it after talking with Grant over the phone).
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 16:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a question about this part (Grant had planned to release her version of the song as the first single from her upcoming album). Do we know what this upcoming album was? Considering the timing, I am assuming it is Legacy... Hymns and Faith, but it would be nice to get clarification in the prose.
    I would assume so but I don’t think it’s explicitly stated in the book. I can go back and check. Toa Nidhiki05 16:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    If it is not explicitly stated either in the book or in other sources, then it would be better to keep the current wording. Aoba47 (talk) 19:55, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this sentence (Grant had planned to release her version of the song as the first single from her upcoming album and MercyMe would release a different song as their first single, hoping to capitalize on having written what would presumably become a major hit for Grant.), is there a way to avoid repeating "first single"?
    Changed one use to “lead single”. Toa Nidhiki05 16:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would there be a way to avoid repeating "second single" in this sentence (Grant gave MercyMe her blessing to release the song as their second single and signed the rights back to the band; "I Can Only Imagine" was released on October 12, 2001 as the album's second single.)?
    Modified slightly. Toa Nidhiki05 16:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would move the link to the movie from this part (In March 2018, following the release of the film I Can Only Imagine,) to here (The story behind "I Can Only Imagine" was adapted into a film.) since it is the first time the film is mentioned in the article.
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 16:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I will leave this up to whoever does the image review, but I am uncertain of the necessity of the music video screenshot. I have also been told to keep non-free media usage to a minimal unless it illustrates a point that cannot be conveyed with text alone or is something that was the subject of critical commentary. The screenshot does not fit either to me. I am not saying you have to remove it as again, I will leave that up to the image review, but it is something to think about it.
    The main function of this image is to demonstrate what it means by picture frames. The picture clearly shows a person holding a picture frame, one of the main motifs of the video. I can understand if it needs to go, however. Toa Nidhiki05 01:22, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for the explanation. That makes more sense to me then. Since the picture frame concept was an important part of not only the music video, but also of the concert performances, then I can see a stronger reason for inclusion. Aoba47 (talk) 01:58, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the "Other versions" section, the first paragraph includes several instances of "version"/"versions", particularly in the first paragraph. Would there be a way to avoid this?
    I've changed several usages to "recording" to try and vary things. Does this work? Toa Nidhiki05 01:22, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would simplify this (in promotion of the upcoming film release) to (to promote the film).
    Done. Toa Nidhiki05 01:22, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is this part (Millard was also interviewed after the performance) necessary as it does not really add any information about the song?
    This is a good point; I've removed it. Toa Nidhiki05 01:22, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hope that my comments are helpful. Apologies for the length of the review, as I am just trying to be thorough and help as much as possible. You have done an excellent job with the article. Let me know if you need any clarification about anything. Hope you have a great rest of your day and/or night! Aoba47 (talk) 21:02, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, I appreciate it! I'll try and dig through this shortly. Toa Nidhiki05 02:38, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would recommend adding alternative text to the infobox image and for all of the other images in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 02:01, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • All images should have alt text now. Toa Nidhiki05 03:25, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems like the ALT text has been removed. I will leave this point up to the editor who conducts the image review. Aoba47 (talk) 03:58, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. I will look through the article again tomorrow. Aoba47 (talk) 02:01, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for your patience with the review. I support this for promotion based on the prose. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate any feedback for my current FAC. Otherwise, I hope you have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 04:02, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Suggest adding alt text
    Alts have been restored. Toa Nidhiki05 15:07, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
  • Fixed the one image that had that issue. Toa Nidhiki05 15:07, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Imagine_Bart_Millard.PNG needs a stronger FUR. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:59, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Better. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:35, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie edit

I'd like to see the first paragraph of the "Critical reception" section improved per the advice at WP:RECEPTION. Currently it's just a list of opinions -- see the "A said B" problem discussion in WP:RECEPTION, which makes for dull reading. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:13, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've made some minor adjustments here, Mike Christie to make it more interesting. Let me know what you think of it now. Toa Nidhiki05 19:04, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a slight improvement, but the first paragraph still reads like a list of opinions, rather than a natural overall description of the reviews. For example, three separate comments specifically praise the lyrics; wouldn't it be more natural to put those together, quoting or citing them? Similarly, two comments say the song was the highlight of the album; you simply repeat that point in different parts of the paragraph as if they were unrelated points. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:46, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note edit

Hi, this review has attracted no commentary for over a month; I've deliberately left it alone for longer than I normally would realising that many of us have other things on our minds at this time but it can't stay open indefinitely. Also it sounds like more work on the Reception section should take place before further review. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:46, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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