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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Drake Would Love Me/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 14 March 2020 [1].

Drake Would Love Me edit

Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 23:41, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello everyone! This article is about a song by American singer K. Michelle for her second studio album, Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart? (2014). Its lyrics are about an imaginary romance with Canadian rapper Drake. "Drake Would Love" was never released as a single and did not appear on any music charts, but its odd title and concept still attracted attention from media outlets. It received generally positive reviews from critics, although some criticized Michelle's decision to dedicate a song to Drake.

For this project, I was inspired by AJona1992's FAC for the Selena song "Missing My Baby" to work on an article about an album track. I do not have a lot of experience with bringing song articles to the FA level, so I would greatly appreciate any feedback as always for this nomination. Thank you in advance! Aoba47 (talk) 23:41, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moisejp edit

Oppose for now, hope to change to support later.

Hi Aoba, I hope you’re well. I would say this article is not quite ready for FA yet, but I hope you may likely be able to fix the issues within the period of this FAC. Below I’m just highlighting quickly what for me would be some of the biggest issues. Once you resolve these I may have some other smaller points.

  • In the second paragraph of the Critical reception section, there are four criticisms, but there is only one of them (the “just plain weird” one) that is very clear to me what the context is. The other ones feel like they need more background. Also the last one wiki-links to “sucking-teeth” but it mentions the context as being for the West Indies, while the writer of the review seems to be New York-based. It’s not clear that the wiki-link is relevant.
  • I believe the "sucking-teeth" slang has expanded beyond the West Indies as it something that I have heard the expression in the US, but I understand your point. I have expanded on this paragraph to include further information from the sources, but please let me know if further work is necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the first paragraph of the section there are some worthwhile-sounding points made by various writers, but it’d be nice if they could be tied together to try to link some similarities or related points among the different comments.
  • I have revised the paragraph to link some of the similar points made by critics. The commonalities that I found are that critics were (in this case pleasantly) surprised by how the song sounded in comparison to the title and enjoyed Michelle's humor. Aoba47 (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not just in that paragraph, but also in the Composition and lyrics section—and I’ve mentioned this in a couple of previous reviews of articles you’ve nominated, and I hope I don’t sound like a broken record—I feel there are too many brief unrelated points reviewers say, listed one after another, without any overarching narrative to them. For me it’d be great if some of these could be fleshed out, to appear more substantial, and similar themes or trends among the things they say could be highlighted so there is a more solid story for the reader. Your first version of When You Get a Little Lonely suffered from that, but then you came back with more points of substance and a more solid narrative, and it was really a lot better.
  • That is a fair point so no worries. I went for the following approach with this section. The first paragraph would focus on the music itself (i.e. genre, instrumentation, etc.), the second on the lyrics, and the third on how the song fits with the rest of the album. I renamed the section to "Music and lyrics" to hopefully make the separation of the first two paragraphs clearer. I have revised all of the paragraphs so hopefully it does not sound like just a bunch of information randomly smashed together, but let me know if further work is necessary. I would argue that the overall narrative of this article (and the publications about this particular song) focuses on the bizarre nature of a singer writing fan fiction about Drake. It is certainly a strange moment in music history. Aoba47 (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overall I feel there are too many quotations in the article. More paraphrasing would be better.
  • Understandable, any particular section or paragraph stand out with this? Aoba47 (talk) 20:32, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don’t understand what the comparison to Dr. Seuss is supposed to mean. It could use more context if it’s available in the source.
  • I have attempted to revise this part. I think the source is making this comparison based on how the song lists Drake's qualities through a similar rhyming style to a Seuss book (i.e. same/games). This is the full quote from the source about it for further clarification: (In “Drake Would Love Me,” which reads like a romantic R&B song written by Dr. Seuss, Michelle enumerates Drake’s finest qualities: he would show her off at the Grammys; he would treat her like “his grand prize”; he wouldn’t lie; he wouldn’t make her cry; he wouldn’t “play no games”; he would “always be the same.”) Aoba47 (talk) 20:31, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That’s all for now. While the article is not quite at there yet, with a little oiling here and there I think the gap is not so insurmountable and I wish you good luck improving it. Best wishes, Moisejp (talk) 03:44, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the comments! I will go through the article sometime tomorrow to try my best to address your points if that is okay with you. I just wanted to leave a note to let you know that I have seen the comments. Thank you for being upfront with your oppose. Apologies again for being quite bad at taking criticism in the past, but I greatly appreciate your feedback. I will let you know on here when I have revised the article, and I am looking forward to working with you further on this. This one is a little outside of my comfort zone so it will be nice to work through the article slowly tomorrow as I do agree with your points above. Aoba47 (talk) 04:17, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe that I have addressed everything so I will refrain from editing the article further until I get further feedback. Aoba47 (talk) 19:42, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Aoba. RL is a bit busy right now, but I hope to get back to looking back at the article in the next few days or so. I'm looking forward to seeing the changes you made. Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 02:55, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No worries. Take as much time as you need as there is no rush. Hope you are having a good week so far. Aoba47 (talk) 03:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

  • Suggest to move what the song is about to near the start of the first paragraph.
  • "It was written by Michelle, Bianca Atterberry, and Stephen Mosty and its producers Ronald "Flippa" Colson and Oak Felder." I suggest to replace one of the instances of "and" with "as well as". Three in one sentence feels like two much (even two is pushing it).
  • I would drop "Musically" from the start of the first sentence of the second paragraph.
  • "discussed its placement on Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart?" As is, seems too vague to be meaningful.

Production and release:

  • The middle two paragraphs don't seem like production, and maybe fall more under theme/writing/inspiration. You could consider expanding the title of this section to encompass something like this.
  • I have revised the section title to "Background and release", but I am open to any suggestions. Aoba47 (talk) 19:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is about the song about Drake. I'd argue that what's in the second and third paragraphs should be more prominent (i.e., come before) the first paragraph. Or maybe merge the content about the songwriters into what is now the second paragraph, then put the stuff about production, vocals, mixing, and mastering near the end, just before the paragraph about its release.
  • That is a good point. I have restructured this section, but I will look through it again later today to make sure it is cohesive. Aoba47 (talk) 19:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "favor" (near the end of the second paragraph): could I suggest "respond to" or "like", or something else?
  • Replaced with "respond to". Aoba47 (talk) 19:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "her second studio album, Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart?". Where it is now, it feels too off-handed an introduction to the album that the song would be released on.
  • "Jon Caramanica highlighted it as an example of clickbait". The NYT article says "'Drake Would Love Me' is great clickbait soul, a song in which she aligns herself with hip-hop’s great emoter." I read the sentence in the "Drake Would Love Me" article, and the sentence in the NYT article, and how clickbait is described in the wiki-link, and I don't have confidence that the three are aligned. The NYT article only has the one elusive sentence about this, so it's hard to know exactly what nuance of "clickbait" the author may be hinting at.
  • I have removed that part. Aoba47 (talk) 01:59, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow. Moisejp (talk) 06:43, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics:

  • "calming melody": Could this be paraphrased?
  • I am not sure it has or should be paraphrased. There are a relatively low amount of quotations in this section in particular, and I do not see the value of paraphrasing this part. But, that is just my personal opinion, and I am open to ideas about this. Aoba47 (talk) 01:59, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In this case, I didn't mention this one due to the frequency of quotations in its proximity. Rather, it's because there are quotations that add spice and life to an article and others that stick out for their blandness. This could just be my opinion too, but I think by putting quotation marks around words it highlights them in a way as "important text". And when a bland phrase is highlighted as "important text" the reader may wonder "Did this need to be underlined as important text even when it's such an everyday little phrase with no special or deep meaning. Could it maybe have been paraphrased?" But again, that could just be my opinion, and it's okay if you disagree. Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 06:50, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the explanation. For some reason, my brain just died and I could not think of a way to paraphrase this part without sounding dumb. I have revised it to remove the quote completely. Aoba47 (talk) 18:24, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The song contains references to Drake's music,[17] including: "Drake wouldn't leave me, he would keep me, never break his promises / I'd be the best he ever had, he'd be on his best behavior." " Does this mean similar phrases appear in one or more of Drake's songs (that's what the references to his music are)? If so, maybe this should be explained more explicitly and the referenced song should be mentioned. Moisejp (talk) 06:56, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception:

  • Amorosi's review seems to make the point that the song was unexpectedly not funny, then a little bit later there is the statement that "Michelle's humor was also the subject of praise" with some examples given, with no acknowledgement made that this may differ from Amorosi's interpretation. I think it would be nice if those bits were linked to each other better.
  • Good point. I have revised this part to help with the flow of the overall paraagraph. Aoba47 (talk) 19:51, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Brown remarked that the lyrics adhere to how Drake presents himself as the ideal man rather than realistically portraying his attitude toward women." Can you give more background about what his realistic attitude towards women might be? Are there indications that he might sometimes have a bad attitude? I actually know very little about Drake myself, but I did read once he was criticized for his attitudes in "Hotline Bling". Are there other examples? I don't know, I just think the current wording of "rather than realistically portraying his attitude toward women" kind of suggests there may be more to say about it.
  • I have attempted to address this, but I would greatly appreciate any further feedback on this point. The Jezebel source portrays Drake as someone who has relationships with many, many women as opposed to the more romantic ideal in the song. Some media outlets have criticized Drake's music as sexist (although there are also critics who say the opposite), and there has been discussion about his relationship with underage girls (with his friendship with Millie Bobby Brown being a more recent point of discussion). I was hesitant about adding the second part to the article as I was uncertain if it would go against any of the WP:BLP policies. Aoba47 (talk) 19:51, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Although music has been written about celebrities, including fellow musicians,[28] The Washington Post's Chris Richards still felt it was "mildly radioactive" to release a track explicitly about a crush on another singer." In the first part of this sentence, it's kind of good that you're trying to add some background. But it feels misleading as it is now. It sounds like Richards is making this "Although..." point when I believe all he said was the second part of the sentence. I wonder if there's a good way to shuffle the sentence up a bit so that the first part doesn't sound misleading but can still be kept as useful background. Moisejp (talk) 14:50, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have attempted to revise this part, but I am more than happy to hear further suggestions on this. Aoba47 (talk) 19:51, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the edits to the lead. It is nice to see a different approach as I think a lot of the leads for song articles can be quite cookie-cutter in terms of structure. I think your edits have improved it, and I would be more than happy to hear any further suggestions on how to improve it more. Aoba47 (talk) 06:41, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "she explained that Drake attracted a female fanbase because he releases more love songs than other men and was more respectful to women in his music": "explained" doesn't seem like the best word to me, but before I can suggest a better word, it would help if Michelle's stance was clearer. Was she a fan of Drake herself, i.e., does she include herself in the female fans who admired his love songs and his respect for women in music? Or is she more detached, and is observing these women and putting herself in their shoes like an actress would? Are their indications in the sources that could clarify this distinction and possibly flesh out this aspect and add to our understanding of Michelle's motivations for writing this song? As it is, this sentence (for me, anyway) falls flat as it doesn't go deep enough to be meaningful or helpful in our understanding of why she said this. Moisejp (talk) 04:19, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to the sources, Michelle and Drake are friends and she respects him as a person. I went back to watch the Breakfast Club interview directly, and she explicitly says the song was inspired by conversations that women had in the recording studio. The interview can be watched here, and the part about this song starts around 1:55. It seems more like she is putting herself into the fans' shoes and recorded the song because she knew it would appeal to a particular demographic of people. I think it would be best to cite the interview directly and add this part to the article. I went to the official YouTube account for the Breakfast Club and I had trouble finding this interview there, although I could just cite the interview directly. I hope that clarifies things further. Thank you again for taking the time to do this review as you have helped to improve the article immensely. Aoba47 (talk) 20:24, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have attempted to incorporate the information from the interview into the article. It is a little rough though admittedly. Aoba47 (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She has also written songs about Kim Kardashian for her fourth studio album Kimberly: The People I Used to Know (2017) and Jay-Z and Ciara for her fifth studio album All Monsters Are Human (2020)." Maybe consider putting this in a footnote. It feels out of place in the current flow of facts in this section.
  • "In a 2018 article for Rolling Stone, Elias Light described Felder as one of the most influential R&B producers partially for writing and producing "breakout hits" for artists like Michelle, Nicki Minaj, and Alessia Cara." The relevance of this feels questionable to me. I would strongly consider removing it.
  • "critics described it as either a ballad or a slow jam". I don't think "either...or" really works here. One critic called it a ballad and another called it a slow jam? Maybe there's another way you can find to express that?
  • "A Music Times contributor wrote that the track fits with the "often emotional themes" in his music." This is another place I'd recommend paraphrasing—again, not because there are necessarily too many other quotations in the vicinity, but rather because it's such an everyday phrase that sticks out as not needing to be quoted directly.
  • "Renowned for Sound's Meggie Morris and The Quietus' Alex Macpherson noted...": Here "noted" may not be good as it suggests an objective truth, while this sentence is about an interpretation or opinion.
  • Especially in this Music and lyrics section (and to a lesser degree throughout the article as a whole) there is an overabundance of sentences using simple S-V-O sentence structure. It would be great if there could be more variation in sentence structure, for example by starting more sentences by subordinate clauses.
  • I have tried to revise this, but let me know if more work is necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, in retrospect, even with the change you made, I would argue that "Music has been written about celebrities, including fellow musicians" doesn't work at all; it feels like a stretch to connect it to what Chris Richards wrote. I would recommend cutting this bit. Moisejp (talk) 05:58, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No worries. It is good to try things and realize when they are not working. Removed. Aoba47 (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for making the changes. I'll try to have another read-through in the next couple of days or so. :-) Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 00:03, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you, and take as much time as you need. Hope you are having a good start to your week :) Aoba47 (talk) 00:10, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article has definitely improved. I'm removing my oppose for now, but there are still a number of points I feel could be tighter:

  • The first paragraph of Background and release flows quite a bit better than before—nice work on it. But one issue still: "Along with this inspiration, she also based the track on how Drake's fans fantasize that he would fall in love with them." Right before this we get a somewhat specific account of her hearing conversation in the studio, so this next sentence falls a bit flat. It's not clear where she may have come up with these ideas—maybe also from hearing it in the studio, maybe somewhere else. I'm not sure if I'll have time to look at the sources, but if it happens this information isn't available, maybe just the sentence can be rewritten a bit. Perhaps in this case substitute something else for "based the track on", which I think adds to the reader's expectation of something more specific.
  • In the same paragraph, two sentences in a row with "appeal". Can you change one for variety?

More to follow. Moisejp (talk) 03:29, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Although a majority of Michelle's music is autobiographical, she clarified in a 2014 interview with The Breakfast Club that she only had a platonic relationship with Drake." Yeah, I might not have time to delve into the sources, but is one half of this from ref 8 and the other half from ref 9? As it is now, it's kind of unclear whether she may have said both parts in the Breakfast Club interview. It would be reassuring for the reader to know whether it was Michelle who said the first part, and possibly whether she said it in that interview or elsewhere. Or, at the very least, if one part is from 8 and the other is from 9, maybe you could put one of the refs in the middle of the sentence and the other at the end.
  • "Throughout the track, Michelle sings about attending the Grammy Awards with him and being hated by his groupies." From this it sounds like them being at the Grammies and fending off groupies is a major part of the song. Is this the case? If not, maybe reword "Throughout the track".
  • Aoba47: Better, and may be good enough. I don't want to make it too wordy but if it's appropriate and there's a way to say this concisely, it might be even better to say something whose general gist is "Among the situations described in the song..." or "The story points detailed in the song include..." What do you think, would such a change be accurate, and can you think of a good wording for it? Moisejp (talk) 19:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the explanation. I have used one of your suggestions. Aoba47 (talk) 19:46, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't immediately think of anything better, but I'm not sure the structure "When Michelle lists... Feeney compared" works. Moisejp (talk) 03:43, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In USA Today, Martín Caballero praised it as an "anthemic big-stadium R&B ballad", and liked it despite the focus on Drake": Not clear from this why Caballero would find it problematic that the song was about Drake.
  • Critical reception, first paragraph: Two sentences in close proximity with "writing for...". Maybe you can change the first one. It may not be an impossible wording, but "writing for, enjoyed" still seems a little awkward ("writing for" means he's at his computer, then suddenly "enjoyed" is not clear what the flow of ideas is).
  • You asked before whether "and for his relationships with underage women" may be counter to BLP. I don't know the answer. If there's another example of bad behavior/attitudes towards women that you can find, it could be an idea to substitute it in. But if you can't find anything else, I don't know what to suggest. The point is stronger with two examples rather than just the one about misogyny. Moisejp (talk) 03:58, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Drake's communications with younger women is definitely the thing getting the most attention (more so than the misogynistic lyrics) so it should be fine then. Aoba47 (talk) 16:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and considered it a reason for her popularity": What is "it" here? I'm not sure that it's clear. Moisejp (talk) 04:09, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Reviewers were surprised by the song due to their reservations about its unconventional subject matter": This sentence is a little bit confusing and when I try to deconstruct it I'm not sure all the pieces fit together (but they may, and it may just be me). If you can think of a clearer (possibly simpler) way to say this, it would be helpful to me at least. Moisejp (talk) 04:13, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revised. I am uncertain if this sentence really works. I was trying to tie together these two ideas. The USA Today critic was surprised that the song "works" because of its odd title/subject, while The Philadelphia Inquirer critic expected something funny/cocky rather than serious. I had tried to tie them together because they both came to the song with different expectations, but had a positive response to the song. However, an expectation for a song to be bad and another for a song to be funny or quite different so maybe it would be best to remove the sentence altogether? Aoba47 (talk) 16:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Those are all of my comments. Moisejp (talk) 04:18, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the comments. I have attempted to address everything, but let me know if further revision is necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 16:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The article has improved a lot in the last few weeks. I'm unfortunately unable to look at any of the sources within in the scope of this review, but would like to support based on prose, coherency, and perceived comprehensiveness. Moisejp (talk) 22:54, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Sarastro edit

There are probably a few places that this could do with a little tightening. I've had a quick look, and found a few things but nothing major. I'm no expert on "reception" sections, but reading the above comments, I think the nominator has cleaned up that section quite nicely and it seems to flow reasonably well now. Here are a few thoughts from me. It reads nicely enough overall, and has been well put together so far. Sarastro (talk) 08:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think we are overusing "Michelle" (if you do a Ctrl-F, the page lights up like a Christmas tree), and a little rephrasing and increased use of pronouns would make this a little less repetitive. (This is always one to watch out for, and I'm guilty of it myself, every time, without fail!)
  • Revised, but let me know if more instances of "Michelle" could be replaced. Aoba47 (talk) 17:20, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks better now. I removed one more of them. Sarastro (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In a few places, we lose our encyclopaedic tone, mainly because of the sources. A little rewriting should solve this easily enough. For example, "A writer for The Fader cited "Drake Would Love Me" as the number-one time R&B music was "just plain weird" in 2014" reads very awkwardly (Is there any reason we are not naming the writer?). It could be reworded simply as "In The Fader, X described it as "just plain weird" which avoids the current online media obsession with lists of "times that...". Another example of tone issues would be "Jon Caramanica believed Michelle was smart to release a song" ("smart" is too informal) but it may be worth looking for others.
  • Understandable. I added the "smart" sentence pretty recently so it was not as edited as other parts of the article. I have removed that part altogether because it does not seem necessary as I have already used the critic in a previous section to reference the song as click-bait. I have revised The Fader part according to your suggestion. Aoba47 (talk) 17:20, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "AllMusic's Andy Kellman wrote that Michelle "emphasizes certain syllables like surgical knife twists" with her vocals.": I have no idea what this means, so could we perhaps give an example of what Kellman means? If he doesn't give any examples, I'd be inclined to cut this as meaningless.
  • "The opening lines are: "I would be the apple of his eye and he would treat me like his grand prize ... trophy" and the chorus is "Drake would love me, he would kiss me, he would touch me like I need."": What is the significance of this? Without commentary, we are just quoting the opening lines for the fun of it. Also, as the last thing we mention is Bynes' tweet, it may be read as quoting that.
  • I could understand removing the opening lines as that is rather arbitrary, but since the chorus is the an important part of the song, should it be included in the article to help a reader better understand the song? If not, I would be fine removing it, but I thought I should ask first. Aoba47 (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've no real opinion either way. If we can add some commentary from somewhere, that would be ideal; I can't see much point in adding lines unless we can show they're important, but it's not a huge deal either way and isn't really related to WP:WIAFA. Sarastro (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have removed the chorus sentence. I have a feeling it was actually more detrimental to the article because it pulled focus and made the section in particular seem more like a random collection of facts than anything with cohesion. Aoba47 (talk) 21:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Critics had varying opinions on how "Drake Would Love Me" fit with the rest of Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart?.": A little awkward (especially with the doubled punctuation at the end of the sentence, but that may be unavoidable without making it a little contrived). Also, from what we quote here, their opinions didn't really vary that much. And I think the rephrasing done after the above comments has introduced one little glitch: we introduce Alex Macpherson's idea that the final three songs are linked, go to Morris' comments, then return to Macpherson linking the final three songs. Possibly this could be reworked a little?
  • Thank you for catching that. I have recently edited this paragraph and left a duplicate sentence on Macpherson. I have revised the paragraph and took out the topic sentence as I am not sure it is really necessary. Let me know if further revision is necessary. For album/song titles with punctuation, like Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart?, should a period be used if it appears at the end of a sentence? I was never quite sure of that. Aoba47 (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You're asking the wrong person! MoS isn't my thing at all. It looks strange, but that doesn't make it wrong. My preference would be to reword it to avoid the problem, but I can't think of a way to do it that doesn't make for a horrible sentence! Sarastro (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am just glad that I am not the only one that has these questions/problems lol. Aoba47 (talk) 21:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some reviewers were surprised by the song due to its title": A little awkward (better as "The song surprised some reviewers...") but maybe we need to explain what it was that surprised them. "Some critics, however, disliked the song's focus on Drake" also reads a little awkwardly too; maybe a further polish of the prose might be needed?
  • Revised both parts. I believe critics were surprised because they assumed the song would be more of a joke based on its title, but they found it to be far more serious than their initial expectations. Let me know if further revisions are necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 17:41, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding "The song surprised some reviewers who expected it to be more comical than serious", maybe "Reviewers were surprised by the serious theme of the song, expecting it to be comical"? (Or even "jovial"?) I liked the reference to the title in the previous version, but I notice that only the Star Tribune ref supports this. Could you find another review that makes explicit the expectations raised by the title, and put back "owing to its title"? Sarastro (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also prefer the "due to its title". I have checked the reviews again and I unfortunately could not find an explicit reference to the title. I had used this sentence (Don't ask us how or why, but Drake serves as the inspiration for this anthemic big-stadium R&B ballad, and it works) from the USA Today source to support the title wording in the previous version, but that is a stretch. I am also starting to feel uncertain about the "comedic" part (and that was my comment so I take responsibility for that recommendation) since the USA Today source was more surprised the song worked because they though it would be a failure. Upon further reflection, it seems like the USA Today and Star Tribune sources were more surprised by how much they enjoyed the song despite their initial expectations of the song. Do you have a suggestion for a better sentence for this? Apologies for the long message here. Just trying to look through this part thoroughly. Aoba47 (talk) 21:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The order of "Production and release" could perhaps be improved. We really should discuss her playing the song to Drake before we describe its release, and maybe move the initial reaction to the title of the song to before we talk about its release too?
  • That is a good point. I was somewhat uncertain on how to best structure this section. I believe that I have revised it per your suggestions. Aoba47 (talk) 17:41, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a very short article. I think I know the answer (a resounding "NO!") but are there any more details about how she wrote the song? She wrote it "with Bianca Atterberry, Ronald "Flippa" Colson, Oak Felder, and Stephen Mostyn" but we say nothing about their role. Can we expand on what they did? I'm guessing that, at least, the lyrics were exclusively Michelle's but it would be nice to know a little more about how it was all put together. I suspect nothing is out there, but we should at least look. As it stands, I would find it hard to support an article which is so sparse; however, I certainly would NOT oppose on such grounds, so don't worry.
  • It is a fair concern, and I would not take it personally if an editor did oppose on those grounds. I imagine that is one of the mains reasons getting a non-single song to the FA level is difficult. After doing another search, I could not find any additional sources. K. Michelle is more of a lesser-known artist so she does not get the same coverage as major artists. Aoba47 (talk) 17:52, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll be honest. If we could find a bit more background, I think this would be a marvellous little article. I've got no idea where such things might be found as modern music isn't really my thing... but have any print magazines covered her? No features on her? Even if we just said a little more about her, that might help too. Sarastro (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was just doing a little digging, and it looks like Bianca Atterberry has worked on a few things with her before. I'm also wondering if she is notable enough for her own article? She is on a few "profile" sites, and is mentioned in a few news articles. But not anything that helps this article yet. Sarastro (talk) 21:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the recommendations. I will look into print publications, and I will also look around web results around the album's release with some creative search terms. A feature or a portion of an article could have touched on this song without using the exact title so it is worthwhile to search further. It was a good idea to look into Atterberry. I will look further into the songwriters and producers and see if there are any interesting points about their collaborations with Michelle specifically. I agree that if more information could be added here that it would really tie the article together. Thank you for taking the time to help! Aoba47 (talk) 21:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have added the following Rolling Stone feature on Felder. The article talks about how Felder became an influential R&B producer and mentions he has produced "breakout hits" for artists, including K. Michelle. In the following interview with K. Michelle, the interviewer mentions how she has often written songs about other artists. However, since the site does not seem particularly reliable enough for a featured article, I have cited the albums directly, although I do quite like this line, "inspired musically by different entertainers and their public stories". Aoba47 (talk) 01:57, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • One area that we might perhaps expand... I think we could say a little more about Drake. Who is he? Why are people obsessed with him? Maybe flag up how unusual it is for one musician to write about another (we merely mention this as a reviewer comment). Has anyone looked at this? It would be nice background for this song, and give it a little more context than the usual stuff we get in all song articles. Sarastro (talk) 08:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a good point. The article as a whole and the song itself focuses on Drake's popularity with women so it would be beneficial to add background here. I am always uncertain on when to add background information so that was my fault. I will also look into coverage on songs dedicated to or about other singers. I think this instance is unusual since this is a love song dedicated to a singer, although neither party was ever in a romantic relationship or had a romantic attraction to each other. Aoba47 (talk) 18:56, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I found a few sources about Drake's female fanbase and incorporated them into the article, although I will revisit that portion later to iron out the prose further. I will still search for background information about musicians writing about other musicians. I added in what I found and revised that particular paragraph to hopefully help with the overall flow. Aoba47 (talk) 20:48, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No fault anywhere, and certainly no rush. Take you time, it's worth doing this right. Sarastro (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agreed, it is always best to take one's time with this. I will of course keep you updated on my progress. Aoba47 (talk) 21:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe that I found updated the article with enough background material on Drake, and I have added the best that I could find on songs about singers. I would like to clarify that The Washington Post source mentions how fans often have crushes on singers, but he believed it was "mildly radioactive" for a singer to have a crush on another performer. I have hopefully updated that paragraph so it reads clearer and more like a cohesive narrative. Aoba47 (talk) 04:54, 3 February 2020 (UTC
@Sarastro1: Apologies for the ping, but I just wanted to let you know that I responded to your points above and complete the resarch (at least for now) on the requested point in case you missed. I am in no rush since this FAC is still relatively new so I do not mean this ping to be rushing you. Just wanted to use it as an update. Aoba47 (talk) 03:38, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sarastro, can you stop by again? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:49, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ian Rose: It seems that Sarastro has been inactive since February 25. Aoba47 (talk) 23:47, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Toa Nidhiki05 edit

Going to start a review on this at some point soon. I do intend to claim Wikipedia:WikiCup points for this review. Toa Nidhiki05 00:23, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Prose
Per WP:MOS#YEAR, punctuation should follow the date (December 2, 2014) in the lead.
Not sure about the first sentence of the lead’s second paragraph, specifically “which critics described as a slow jam and a ballad” being split off by a period and “which”. It kind of reads like the critics are describing the R&B song. Maybe using a semicolon (ie. ; critics described it as a slow jam and a ballad) would work better.
In “Michelle based the song on his female fans” would change “his” to “Drake’s”, given “his” is used later in the sentence. I would also ditch the comma here.
The order seems wrong in “attributed his "delicate tempos and emotionally charged lyrics" as the reason women respond to his music”. Perhaps it should read “attributed the reason women respond to his music to his "delicate tempos and emotionally charged lyrics."“?
Same issue with the first sentence of “Music and Lyrics” as in the lead.
”including "Best I Ever Had", "Worst Behavior", and "Make Me Proud"” is split off with a comma before it but not after. It might be worth considering parenthesis here instead.

More to come. Toa Nidhiki05 15:13, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the help so far. Aoba47 (talk) 21:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I’ve looked at the citations as well here and they seem to be in order in terms of consistent formatting and content. Tentative support for prose and formatting. Toa Nidhiki05 13:54, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. Aoba47 (talk) 17:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Paparazzzi edit

Wait for my review soon. Regards, --Paparazzzi (talk) 00:54, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead and infobox
  • "...American singer K. Michelle for her second studio album, Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart? (2014), and is about an imaginary romance with Canadian rapper Drake." I would add that line in bold right after "the song was based on Michelle's perception of how Drake's female fans responded to him." in the second paragraph, for it to be more cohesive.
  • That is understandable. I move it before that sentence since it has the descriptive phrase for Drake and I think it may be better to introduce the song's main narrative before going into the inspiration, but I am open to putting it later in that paragraph if necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 02:06, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Has Michelle performed this song live?
  • I could not find any information on a live performance. I double-checked the set lists for her tours for and after this album. It is a shame because I would genuinely want to hear her perform this live. Aoba47 (talk) 02:06, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Steven Ace is not mentioned on the lead
  • Thank you for catching that. Apologies for that. Aoba47 (talk) 02:06, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is the Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart? track listing really needed on the infobox?
Background
  • Is the information in citation A really relevant? it does not have anything to do with the song
  • I have removed. I added it because I have found a recent interview where the interviewer mentions how Michelle has often written songs based on other artists, and I thought it may be useful for adding background to this article. Aoba47 (talk) 02:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe a picture of Michelle herself would be more useful than one of Oak. She is the performer of the track, after all
  • Changed. It is not the best picture in the world, but I do agree it is best to have a picture of the main artist in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 02:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Critical reception
  • ""Drake Would Love Me" received generally positive reviews from music critics." With no sources supporting it received mostly positive reviews, this falls into WP:SYNTH
  • I am not sure if it counts as WP:SYNTH since the rest of the paragraph includes citations with positive reviews. I have removed the "generally" part as I could see that going into WP:OR as "generally" could be interpreted in many ways, but I would imagine the sentence without it should be fine. That is just my perspective though, and I am open to further discussion on how to best handle this part. Aoba47 (talk) 02:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
References

@Aoba47: More to come later. --Paparazzzi (talk) 00:44, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the comments. I appreciate you for taking the time to look through the article. Hope you are having a great weekend so far. Aoba47 (talk) 02:06, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I support this nomination. --Paparazzzi (talk) 23:20, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. And thank you for the edit to remove the notes part. I cannot believe that I forgot to do that. Aoba47 (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by isento edit

Overall, the article looks as complete as can be for a non-single album track. One suggestion I would make is rendering the discussion of Music and lyrics in the present tense - for example, "critics identify as a ballad..." rather than "identified", and "are interpreted by critics" rather than "were interpreted". The section is serving as a description of a song in the present tense, rather than as a past event, so for consistency's sake, all of it should be rendered in the present tense. isento (talk) 13:19, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Revised. I am somewhat uncertain about this though. I always thought that critics were supposed to be represented in the past tense since their reviews are tied down to a specific time and publication (similar to what is done in the "Style" (Taylor Swift song) article). However, I can also understand your point about consistency as it can be rather distracting to read a section that bounce between present and past tenses. Aoba47 (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, is the Laurence commentary at the end of the section an analysis or a criticism? To say a song "lacks deep emotional feeling" sounds more like the critic is attacking the merits of the work. isento (talk) 13:21, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • This sentence is referring to this part from the source: (Not all the songs are intensely emotion-filled. "Drake Would Love Me" is basically a fan's love song to Drake.) The critic is contrasting the song with others from the album, and I do not take it as a negative review. I have revised the sentence to better represent that. Aoba47 (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with a previous reviewer's comment that the "generally positive reviews" claim should be removed. While summary is not synthesis, this to me is not accurate summary - there appear to be almost as much unfavorable perspectives as there are favorable. I strongly recommend opening the Critical reception section instead with a statement summarizing what specifically the subsequent sentences say was praised. Same for the lead. In this case, an overarching description like "generally favorable" is contentious and should be avoided. Otherwise, I would support this article in terms of prose and comprehensiveness. isento (talk) 20:57, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the support and the explanation. I have revised the parts in the article per your recommendations. Aoba47 (talk) 00:43, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image and caption review edit

  • File:K Michelle picture.png: A little wary of the provenance of the image (it looks like it was cropped from somewhere) but TinEye does not provide information on its provenance. Why is the caption referenced to a Wikipedia article?
  • I chose this K. Michelle image because it seemed the clearest of the available ones to me, but I can understand the concern. There are others available on Wikimedia Commons. This one (File:Kmichelle2019.jpg runs into the same issue with the origin and is pretty low quality in my opinion. Another one (File:K-Michelle4.jpg) has a clearer origin, but it is a rather weird image so I am hesitant to use it in this article. Do you have any suggestions for this? It was suggested earlier in the review to have an image of K. Michelle, but if necessary, I can remove it. Aoba47 (talk) 16:06, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am confused by the last question. What do you mean that the caption is referencing a Wikipedia article? Aoba47 (talk) 16:12, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Both images have ALT text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:08, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the review! Aoba47 (talk) 16:06, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think Drake's image needs to change. The caption issue to me is that the link that normally goes to the source, goes instead to a Wikipedia page. It should point to a source if it's to be linked at all. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:45, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the explanation. Sorry for my confusion. Aoba47 (talk) 17:04, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

Everything seems well. The sources are reliable and archived while the style is quite consistent. Almost every source is quite accessible too. While Youtube can be used in Wikipedia, its usage (reference 15) might need an extra link like author or work to back it up. Ping me when it is done.Tintor2 (talk) 19:19, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the source review. The YouTube references should be fine as they are both from Michelle's official account and support a way that the song was made available to the public. I doubt that a third-party source would cover this information, but I believe it is still necessary to cover this part in the article. Thank you again. Aoba47 (talk) 19:29, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nice. I'll support it.Tintor2 (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 02:44, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Kailash edit

  • Support: I thoroughly reviewed the article for two days, and find the prose to be on par with my expectations (I didn't do source reviewing as all sources seem RS to me, and there are others to do proofreading). Well done Aoba47. --Kailash29792 (talk) 04:56, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the support and the edits to the article. I hope you have a great rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 05:09, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Status update edit

  • @FAC coordinators: Apologies for the ping. Just wanted to check on this nomination's status as it has already received a source review, an image review, and a fair amount of commentary and support. Thank you for your time, and have an awesome weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 05:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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