Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Frederick Browning/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Buidhe via FACBot (talk) 15 March 2022 [1].
Frederick Browning edit
This article is about Boy Browning, a British Army general and Olympian who served as head of the Duke of Edinburgh's office. His wife is more famous than he is. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Image review edit
- https://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/frederick_browning.htm what makes this a high-quality RS ? (t · c) buidhe 01:54, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- File:British Airborne Units.png I am still of the opinion that including this brightly colored image in such a prominent location and large size constitutes undue weight and only serves to distract the reader. Browning's role in this logo is only covered in less than a sentence, and it is not important to his biography. (t · c) buidhe 10:52, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- Browning was the one who created the logo, and the colour scheme. Having it there allows the reader to see what the article is talking about. It is the same size as the other images; default size is used so the reader can control the sizes. We'll see if another editor agrees with you. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:42, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
HF - support edit
Recusing to review - I recognized the name from reading A Bridge Too Far a couple years ago. Hog Farm Talk 16:09, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- " was a senior officer of the British Army who has been called the "father of the British airborne forces"." - shouldn't this quote be somewhere in the body as well?
- I'm assuming it's from an old paragraph split, but the first paragraph of early life has no citations
- "although only hospitalised for four weeks, did not rejoin the 2nd Battalion at the front until 6 October 1916" - any specific reason why?
- "and mentioned in despatches on 23 May 1918" - maybe an ENGVAR issue, but should it be "and was mentioned in despatches"?
- "When he found that the 2/503, was to take part" - not sure the comma after 2/503 should be there
- "Some saw him as "a ruthless and manipulative empire builder who brooked no opposition"" - recommend naming Browning instead of using "he", since Lathbury and Urquhart are discussed more recently before this than Browning
- "In his pack, Browning carried three teddy bears and a framed print of Albrecht Dürer's The Praying Hands" - is this really due detail?
- I think it was there as a DYK hook, but the article was never submitted to DYK. I thought it was a nice human
- " although he did not officially retire from the Army until 5 April 1948" - this is stated twice in about two or three sentences. I think there can be a way to smooth the transition and avoid repeating information
- I can't imagine the generals.dk external link is really useful in any way
- Sourcing looks fine.
Hog Farm Talk 03:31, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Support from Gog the Mild edit
Recusing to review.
- " including shortages of photographs". Could we elaborate on what is meant by "photographs", for the uninitiated. And is there no link?
- "He relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson"; "He relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson". Suggest removing one of these.
- The garish logo seems a bit large and tends to overpower an article which otherwise approaches perfection. Perhaps a little smaller? Perhaps a shorter caption - much of the current one repeats the article.
- I don't want to force a size (MOS:IMGSIZE), so removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Gog the Mild (talk) 21:59, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Comments from Mike Christie edit
I can't find much to comment on; this is in excellent shape.
Can you confirm the spelling is "Ygdrasil" in the source? I've always seen it as "Yggdrasil", and Google confirms that's the correct spelling, though of course Browning was at liberty to mis-spell it for the name of his boat if he wished.'Because of this he has been called the "father of the British airborne forces"' makes it sound as though he's called this because he designed his own uniform; perhaps "Because of his role he has been called..."?- Move the sentence to avoid the ambiguity.
"an apathetic War Office and an obstructionist Air Ministry": not knowing any of the history, I don't know why the War Office would be apathetic in 1941-1942, or why the Air Ministry would be obstructionist -- perhaps they were biased towards the RAF? Could a couple of words of explanation be added?Perhaps a word or two on whether Browning was correct to criticize Operation Ladbroke?This doesn't necessarily require a change in the article, but I'm curious: it appears from the fact that Ernest Down was Browning's subordinate (you say "Browning sent his...commander, Major-General Ernest Down") as GOC 1st Airborne that Hopkinson would have been Browning's subordinate too, so how did Hopkinson get round Browning to sell Montgomery on Operation Ladbroke? Or is the chain of command in the army not as rigid as I'm imagining it?"Browning sent his most experienced airborne commander...": this sentence is long and hard to parse.The next sentence, starting "Down's replacement in command..." is also long, and appears to be missing its verb; I think it should be "was" instead of "by"."While retaining command...": another serpentine sentence that needs breaking up."Browning was forced into a humiliating backdown": suggest "Browning was forced, humiliatingly, to back down", to avoid "backdown" as a noun, which to my ear is a little casual."under which the drop was staggered over several days, and not to make two drops on the first day": I don't think the syntax that joins these clauses works. How about "under which the drop was staggered over several days, with only one drop on the first day"?How is the furore at SEAC relevant to this article?I think it would be more usual to say that Princess Elizabeth came to the throne; yes, she was also Duchess of Edinburgh, but that title is less well-known and in any case presumably a junior title.
-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Support. All the fixes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Source review edit
- The publishers need linking (should an article exist for one) like Penguin Books, Tempus Publishing, Viking Press etc.
- This one does not need addressing but for some reason Google Books lists Lulu.com as Arnhem: The Battle for the Bridges' publisher although everywhere else it's Penguin Books, which I assume is the correct one. FrB.TG (talk) 08:44, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Support Comments from JennyOz
edit
Hi Hawkeye, CUB time! One man - Olympian, two world wars, royal household, famous wife, Bogarde, commodore, knight - there's enough for several bios. I am having intermittent connection problems. If I disappear, don't wait, I can always ask anything further on talk page after promotion.
- lede
- Operation Market Garden is mentioned twice intentional?
- Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
- Daphne du Maurier is also there twice - ditto. It looks like the first para is a summary of the next 2 paras in the lede - intentional?
- Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
- Early life
- Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
- and his wife Nancy (née Alt) - her real name was Anne (per Mead and per Browning snr's article - maybe change to Anne "Nancy" (née Alt). Or Nancy (Anne)
- Wow. The source says Nancy, but the Peerage says Anne. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- In Mead chapter 1 there is a passage that reads, "Freddie also found time to get married on 1 March 1894 at St Mary Abbots, Kensington, to Anne Alt. Always known as Nancy, his bride was the daughter of...". Sorry I can't give you a page number. It's possibly p5 which is already included in ref 5, so no further action needed. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Wow. The source says Nancy, but the Peerage says Anne. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- He had one sibling, his older sister Helen Grace - an older
- First World War
- regimental commander, Colonel Sir Henry Streatfield - is Henry Streatfeild (courtier) (though spelt fei not fie)?
- and then to the Guards Depot at Caterham - Caterham Barracks?
- Inter-war period
- posted to the Guards' Depot in Caterham - barracks again?
- Sovereign's Parade - wlink? (even though it is a redirect to section on Sandhurst article which is already linked? It has "They are followed by the Academy Adjutant on horseback (the origins of this tradition are unclear)."
- posted to the 2nd Battalion, Grenadier Guards, at Pirbright - Army Training Centre Pirbright?
- allowing plenty of time for sports - (do Poms use plural like in US and unlike us?}
- Ygdrasil. - in or on, you have both
- for the winter, but returned in - swap "but" to "and"? ("but" sounds like it was not intended)
- Browning was promoted to lieutenant-colonel on - pipe to Lieutenant colonel (United Kingdom)?
- Second World War
- When the Prime Minister, Churchill, - add "now" Prime Minister (he is mentioned before as a Major). Also remove "the" and comma or lower case prime minister
- command of Lieutenant-General Dwight D. Eisenhower- needs US before Lieutenant?
- shortages of aerial photographs - Aerial reconnaissance in World War II is a better link?
- called the "Rote Teufel" or "Red Devils" by - put translation in brackets so it doesn't sound like an alternative?
- the Air Officer C-in-C; - Commanding-in-Chief? as C-in-C not explained
- Brigadier-General James M. Gavin, the - US before brigadier? (it is not apparent to me who from where (yes you have US in front of first mention of 82nd, but that is so many ranks and acronyms ago)
- Major-General Ray Barker told him that Browning - what experience of Browning did Barker have?
- Added US to this one too.
- subhead "Allied Force Headquarters posting" - is piped above to be plural ie Allied Forces Headquarters
- relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson - already has rank and first name above
- after Hopkinson been killed in Italy - missing had
- Some saw Browning as "a ruthless and manipulative empire builder who brooked no opposition" - "some"? quote belongs to one person or is that Buckingham's quote summing up multiple people?
- Operation Market Garden
- to Major-General Urquhart, GOC of the British 1st Airborne Division - insert Roy to differentiate from "Major Brian Urquhart" (and he was already mentioned as a Major-General)
- Grave and Nijmegen bridges - is the Grave bridge what became named John S. Thompsonbrug, pipe it? And the other is Nijmegen railway bridge?
- Yes, that it the Grave bridge. There are two bridges at Nijmegen, the road bridge (Waalbrug) and the Nijmegen railway bridge. Clarified this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- Browning was awarded the Order of Polonia Restituta - link it again since ibox (the Croix is linked twice)
- Later life
- the Cutty Sark Trust - would that be styled the Cutty Sark Trust? actually, it was Society back then?
- a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order in 1953,[93] and was advanced to Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order in 1959 - same landing article is intentional?
- Legacy
- A Bridge Too Far (film) - according to Daphne's article, the portrayal was bad and she went to the press - worth mentioning?
- Added a bit about it.
- Browning Barracks, which had been built in 1964 and named after Browning - after "him"
- Images top down
- Daphne caption "Browning was inspired by the graphic depictions of the Cornish coastline in his wife's novel The Loving Spirit." - not wife when he was inspired, "had been inspired" or "her" novel
- King George VI inspects... - no alt, caption does job?
- Added "|alt=refer to caption"
- Hotspur "Six man parties of 1st Airborne Division..." - hyphen Six-man parties.
- Glider Pilot Exercise Unit - wlink Glider Pilot Exercise Unit RAF?
- Netheravon - wlink Netheravon Airfield?
- Browning observes training at Netheravon - tweak Alt "...wearing a military uniform a peaked cap with scarlet band." - "and" a peaked cap
- Trimmed alt per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Alternative text for images Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- Browning stands by a Douglas Dakota - RAF Transport Command - wlink?
- Linked
- Lyneham, Wiltshire - link or pipe to RAF Lyneham? No alt - intentional?
- Browning in Ceylon, 1945. - lose full stop? No alt - intentional?
- Mountbatten with Chiang Kai-Shek - needs a full stop after T. V. Soong. Also R. V. Brockman - link Ronald Brockman. No alt
- Notes
- Note 4 Urquart's biographer - typo Urquhart's - Roy or Brian?
- Note 43 Greenacre 2010, pp. 155. - single p
- Note 81 gazette No. 38018". The London Gazette (Supplement). 18 July 1945. - 1947
- Ryan, Cornelius (1974). A Bridge Too Far. London - do we link books here when they have an article?
That's it. I have rushed to finish in case connection drops out again. If you don't hear from me... I certainly have nothing to oppose. Thanks for a great read. Very interesting life, very engaging prose. JennyOz (talk) 16:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you. I greatly appreciate you and the other reviewers taking the time to review. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. (t · c) buidhe 20:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.