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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Don't Start Now/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 21 February 2021 [1].

Don't Start Now edit

Nominator(s): LOVI33 22:37, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the lead single from Dua Lipa's sophomore studio album, Future Nostalgia. Credited for kicking starting a revival of disco music in 2020, the song made Lipa a household name. It was met with both critical and commercial success and is still charting to this day in some countries, over a year following its release. This song was brought to GA status back in April by CoolMarc, who has since retired. I nominated it once before and got no opposes so I hope this one gets a bit more attention. Nevertheless, I still got a peer review and have been making improvements of my own. Any comments will be very helpful. LOVI33 22:37, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by The Ultimate Boss edit

The article looks amazing LOVI; there are just some minor issues. I've been told some sources like Teen Vogue and Vice are not really FA material. I would ask someone who is experienced at FA to see what sources should be replaced or removed from the article. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 02:46, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:RSP Vogue is considered reliable, though I'm unsure if this extends to Teen Vogue. Vice is of questionable reliability, but consensus seems to be that it is OK for entertainment and celebrity news (not so much politics or science though). I think the use of Vice here (describing the song's composition) is acceptable. Some Teen Vogue references, though, should be replaced if possible IMO. AviationFreak💬 04:03, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your input AviationFreak and The Ultimate Boss! I have kept the Vice source and removed/replaced two of the Teen Vogue ones. I have left one Teen Vogue one that I have not been able to replace but personally, I think it is okay as it is simply for one claim and Teen Vogue is considered a "sister" publication to Vogue which is considered reliable. LOVI33 20:39, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LOVI33 Another source that I saw in the article that you should remove is Insider. When I put "Cups" up for FAC, I had the same source and someone mentioned that it wasn't FA material. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 20:50, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey The Ultimate Boss. Per WP:RSP, there is currently no consensus on Insider. I think it is okay to include since it is only used as a ranking in the year-end lists section. Do you think I should remove it? LOVI33 21:02, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LOVI33, you should ask someone who has more experience at FA. Other than that, I support. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 21:42, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by K. Peake edit

Hello LOVI33, very good to help you out with this FAC. The article is definitely of good quality after the proper review it went through in the past, but there are still a number of things not meeting the FA criteria. First of all, "it" is used inappropriately in the lead: "Lipa wrote it with" being the second sentence doesn't specify whether she wrote the song with the following personnel or the album, plus "It spent a" should be "The former spent a" since it comes after a mention of another song by Lipa. Also, regarding the credits and personnel section, you should move the music video credits to the video section as a sub-section and I think it looks a little repetitive having all of the article's media aligned to the right. I would further suggested to retitle accolades to industry awards since the entire section consists of them and ref 187 needs numerous citations, as one Amazon retailer does not back up a "various" release. --K. Peake 08:28, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Kyle Peake! I have invoked your prose suggestions. For me it is kind of hard to address the song without repetition so thanks for that. I have also split up the credits and personnel subsections, aligned the Times Square photo in "Release and promotion" to the left, retitled the Accolades section and I replaced the Amazon ref with Tidal. I hope it looks good now. LOVI33 21:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
LOVI33 Maybe you should just not refer to it as "the single" at all in the lead to be more consistent. --K. Peake 21:15, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kyle Peake, reworded. How does it look now? LOVI33 21:20, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
LOVI33 Amazing, I am going to put my support behind this nom now! --K. Peake 21:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from MaranoFan edit

  • The footnote about Don't Start Now's release date should be linked in the infobox as well.
  • "Numerous 1980s and disco tropes are used in the production" -- I don't believe the word "numerous" adds anything to the reader's understanding here.
  • If possible, try to eliminate the repetition of "1980s and disco" twice in the lead.
  • "The song peaked at number two on both the UK Singles Chart and the US Billboard Hot 100, surpassing 2017's "New Rules" to become her highest-charting single in the US" -- Replacing "in the US" with "on the latter" might be more effective.
  • It spending 20 weeks in the US top 10 doesn't appear to be sourced anywhere in the article.
  • Removed. It's funny I could have sworn I had it in the prose. Also it's probably not notable since It didn't break any records or anything. LOVI33 01:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Internationally, the song charted in the top 10 on charts in over 40 countries, including number-one peaks in nine countries. The single is certified multiplatinum in 14 countries" -- This will need a direct source. If there isn't one then remove it.
  • Is there a reason only the Live in LA Remix has been mentioned in the lead? Might be worth mentioning one of the other remixes too if they are notable.
  • There's quite a lengthy Impact and legacy section. As the lead is a summary of the whole article, it should mention the key points from it.
  • Why is the chorus included out of context in the Music and lyrics section? The placing is a bit weird. I would suggest working it into the prose or removing it altogether.
  • I've tried to re-word it. LOVI33 01:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The stray chorus lyrics are still there and are creating white space to their right. You could try wording it like: "She celebrates her independence, and uses bullet point instructions to address a needy former lover directly; with lyrics including, "Don't show up, don't come out / Don't start caring about me now / Walk away, you know how / Don't start caring about me now"." to fix this.--NØ 09:16, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh my mistake. I thought you were talking about the part mentioning the chorus composition. I have re-worded it. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Copyrighted images should only be used if absolutely necessary. The image of DSN billboards doesn't really enhance the reader's understanding of the article enough to justify use here.
  • This is optional but I prefer when year-end lists are worked into prose instead of tabulated.
  • The awards table is discouraged, as it is considered a WP:CFORK of the artist's awards article. Remove it and mention the noteworthy ones in prose.
  • Remove the music video credits. They would be fine in an article dedicated to the music video but are taking up undue space here.
  • Removed. Incorporated the producer and production company into the prose. LOVI33 01:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The external links are way too excessive! Let's get rid of them all except MetroLyrics.
  • I would argue that the Lyric video and Live in L.A. music video are also notable for it. Removed all the rest though. LOVI33 01:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do think the official music video being linked in the infobox makes those two redundant too, but I will leave this up to your choice.--NØ 09:16, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, I have removed them. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for now. The article is definitely detailed and well-written. I will give it another look after these are addressed.--NØ 15:01, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MaranoFan thanks for the comments. I have addressed them all. LOVI33 01:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the second sentence of the Writing and production section, use "The former song" instead of just "The song" since two songs are mentioned in the preceding sentence.
  • "The song came about after the A&R head at Lipa's record label" -- Maybe it should be mentioned that Warner is the record label being talked about.
  • Link disco in "disco night" instead of the following sentence.
  • "The song was eventually written with Lipa in January 2019" -- The writers credited on the final version should be mentioned here again, just so it's clear that J Kash wasn't involved in it. Something like "Ailin, Warren and Kirkpatrick eventually co-wrote the song with Lipa in January 2019".
  • The word "by" is repeated twice in several sentences here. Try to eliminate this. E.g. "extra drums inspired by the Weeknd's song "Can't Feel My Face"," (and "the" should be lowercased mid-sentence).
  • Make sure there is a source directly after every quote.
  • "For this section, he went through 25 different sounds and incorporated them into four." -- four what? This is a bit confusing.
  • "while a cowbell in appears in the anthemic, string-backed, 1980s synth-pop chorus." -- There is some grammatical error here, probably to do with the repetition of the word "in".
  • The Music and lyrics section is well-written, but I will reiterate my suggestion about the stray paragraph at the end.
  • "The song was made available to pre-save on Spotify on 25 October 2019, in conjunction with a competition to win signed polaroids of the singer." -- This sentence should be removed if Lipa's twitter account is the only source. It's nothing out of the ordinary.
  • Try to look for reliable secondary sources for the vertical and lyric videos too. Primary sources are fine but not preferrable.
  • I haven't been able to find any. Before I nominated I tried to replace all the primary sources but I was unable to. I hop that is okay. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source Idolator has caused trouble at some other FACs due to questions about its reliability. Though I personally consider it okay, you could remove it to be on the safer side.
  • I also see no problem with it. If someone else mentions it I will remove it. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a grammatical error in the GQ sentence, again having to do with repetition of the word "in". Also, one usage of the word "version" could be substituted with "edition" (or something similar) here to reduce repetition.
  • Change "1 billions spins" to "one billion spins".
  • "On their singles chart, the song song debuted at number eight" -- There's a typo here.
  • I re-phrased that per HĐ's suggestion on trimming it down. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm sure you could find a better source for the music video premiere date. It's not necessary to include the exact time it premiered.
  • Added time into a note like what was done for the actual song's premiere. I also added The Fader and ET Canada sources for the music video release. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure about ThisSongIsSick.com as a source. The About Us page calls it a blog. I definitely don't think it's fit for an FA.
  • Regarding the discourse with HĐ below, I believe it might help to rename the "Impact and legacy" section to "In popular culture", since the latter is less controversial. Impact isn't really a suitable title if the section doesn't mention any particular songs that were directly inspired by DSN.--NØ 09:16, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks MaranoFan! I hope everything looks okay now. LOVI33 20:45, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am now comfortable offering my support for promotion. Good job on the co-operation and swift responses, LOVI33.--NØ 05:33, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from HĐ edit

I have not examined the whole article, but I am a little bit dubious about the detailed "Impact and legacy" section. Not sure if the TicToker bit is notable, but I consider it a potential case of WP:FANCRUFT. The first paragraph can be pretty much summed up into 3-4 sentences, focusing on the song's relevance in the pandemic and a summary on its influence on a new disco trend. Have not gone through all the refs, but this one, as cited in the article, actually focused on the album rather than this song, thus making it questionable whether claims in these sources have been cherry-picked to give it an undue weight. Inclusions in soundtracks are pretty normal for a hit, so I'd recommend trimming down (see WP:SONGTRIVIA). The "commercial performance" can also be cut down (WP:CHARTTRAJ) to give it a flow rather than reading like an indiscriminate collection of information. HĐ (talk) 02:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi HĐ, thanks for the comments! I have trimmed down the "Impact and legacy" section to only include the disco trend, relevance during the pandemic, notable covers which have changed the song from its original composition and soundtrack inclusions that have been mentioned in an article. The Vulture article you are referring to actually covers the song "Future Nostalgia" from the album, but I was citing it for the part in the lead where it says: "We knew nothing of COVID-19 when Dua Lipa's 'Don’t Start Now' and Jessie Ware's 'Mirage (Don’t Stop)' came out in fall 2019, but they set the tone that would become pervasive throughout the unexpected year of solitude that followed". I have also trimmed down the commercial performance section. I hope it looks okay now. LOVI33 20:02, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Alexismata7 edit

@LOVI33: I totally agree that this article becomes FA, it is well written as one user said above, good grammar and punctuation. I think it's not okay to mention the song title twice in the lead. I think the "release and promotion" section deserves to be expanded slightly. In the "popular culture" section, the term "cha cha" is used mostly in the United States and therefore I think you should change it to cha-cha-cha. You must also link Fortnite to its respective article about the video game. Then I think there is nothing more to repair and the article is in its final version. Alexismata7 (talk) 03:04, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Alexismata7, thanks for the comments. I have linked Fortnite and changed cha cha to cha-cha-cha. Usually in the lead and through out the article, it is okay to use the song title once per paragraph and unfortunately, the release and promotion section bas been expanded to its fullest extent. There aren't really any more notable items to put in that part. I hope it looks okay now. LOVI33 20:57, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review by Ealdgyth edit

  • LOVI33 Any progress on this? Gog the Mild (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm planning to get it done by this weekend. My apologies I have been very busy lately. LOVI33 22:03, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Esculenta edit

I haven't heard the song, and have never heard of the singer, so will be reviewing prose and understandability, and maybe a bit of WP:MOS compliance. Based on a first reading, it seems the supports above may be premature, as there's a lot (linking, spelling, grammar, diction) that needs tweaking: Esculenta (talk) 21:45, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • ”… it features a percolating funk bassline …” To percolate: “filter gradually through a porous surface or substance”; also “be or become full of lively activity or excitement”, which I suppose is the meaning intended here, but this is more of a US usage, so am not sure if it’s appropriate for an article, in British English, on an English artist. Also, “funk” is jargon.
    • I have removed it from the lead but I would argue it has significance in the "Music and lyrics" section. There doesn't seem to be a good synonym for it. Also, funk is a musical genre. I wouldn't say it is jargon but if you were confused there I added the wikilink. I didn't have it there before per MOS:SOB. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The lyrics find Lipa” I don’t think personification is a good writing technique for an international encyclopaedia.
  • ”"Don't Start Now" received highly positive reviews upon its release; with many reviewers noting significant growth in Lipa's sound and vocals.” grammar problem (semicolon is used incorrectly)
    • Replaced semicolon with comma. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”At the upcoming 63rd Annual Grammy Awards, the song is” has no other reviewer noticed that this event has passed?
    • The event is scheduled to take place on 14 March 2021. It was re-scheduled due to a surge of COVID-19 cases in Los Angeles. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The song peaked at number two on both the UK Singles Chart and the US Billboard Hot 100, surpassing 2017's "New Rules”” Sounds like the band “2017” released this song.
    • Rephrased.
  • words that could/should be linked: downtempo, dive bar, pre-chorus, rhythm guitar, lens filter, double platinum, disco ball, Versace, platforms, remix, meme, emote, cover, Spotify, Spotify Singles
    • Linked all accept Versace as it was already linked. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”For this section, he went through 25 different sounds” going through a sound sounds a bit idiomatic, perhaps rephrase
    • Rephrased to "ideas". LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”His final rough mix included nearly 100 tracks.” elsewhere, the word “track” is used as a synonym for song (I think); is there a link to explain the way track is being used here?
    • I just used it here to avoid the over usage of "song". LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Several 1980s and disco tropes are included in the French bloghouse production” this is the only time a “French bloghouse” is mentioned; what does this mean?
    • French bloghouse is a mid-2000s electronic music genre. Do you think a should link it to Electronic music? LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”a percolating funk bassline which interchanges” which->that (which is generally used after a comma)
  • ”Lipa's vocals eschew modulation” again personification … perhaps “Lipa eschews modulation in her vocals” (although “eschew” is used thrice in the article, and anything more than once seems a bit much)
  • ”During the final chorus, chordal devices from the breakdown reappear” what is a chordal device?
    • Chordal devices are several machines used when recording music. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Various contemporary critics viewed the song” It is a 2019 release; how could the critics be anything but contemporary?
    • Removed "contemporary". LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”whereas "Don't Start Now" proves that the rules created in order to get over an ex in the former track actually work.” Needs some context; what “rules” did Lipa propose in "New Rules”?
    • I don't think that the rules actually need to be said as Lipa never mentions them in the lyrics. The line "in order to get over an ex" summarizes the rules. However, I have added "in a breakup" for more context. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”She celebrates her independence, and uses bullet point instructions to address a needy former lover directly;[32][33][34] with lyrics including, "Don't show up, don't come out / Don't start caring about me now / Walk away, you know how / Don't start caring about me now".[35]” grammar issue, as a semicolon shouldn’t be used to connect these clauses
    • Replaced with a comma. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Gigwise's Jordan Emery complemented its "satisfyingly catchy hooks” -> complimented
  • ”Brad Garcia regarded "Don't Start Now" as a homage instead of an obvious attempt to replicate past success.” an homage to what?
    • To past success. Also added the link to homage. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • If I can chime in - adding a wikilink doesn't make this any clearer to me. I think the problem is the reference to 'homage' doesn't work outside of the context of the original article, as the writer spends a couple of paragraphs making references and comparisons before making the homage statement. Maybe look for a different quote to pull out of the article instead, that can stand by itself? H. Carver (talk) 01:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”It was awarded an iHeartRadio Titanium Award for receiving one billions spins on the station in the United States.” what is “the station”?
    • iHeartRadio. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The song is currently nominated for Record of the Year, Song of the Year and Best Pop Solo Performance at the upcoming 63rd Annual Grammy Awards” not “current anymore
    • Per above, hasn't happened yet. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”marking Lipa's first nod in all three categories.” the use of the word “nod” here confuses me; is it being used as a synonym for “nomination”?
    • It was used for meaning "acknowledgment" or something along those lines. I changed it to acknowledgment. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”first-week sales of 49,334 units” is there an appropriate link for “unit” the way it is used here?
  • ”the longest top 10 stay" needs hyphen
  • The article has “double platinum” and “triple platinum”, but “4-times platinum”. Don’t the music-business types use the word quadruple?
    • Yes, I have rephrased it. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”10.2 million radio impressions.” what is a “radio impression”?
    • Its a term used for the total radio audience a song has reached. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The performance ended with a festival of silver, cushion-shaped balloons falling from the ceiling.” A ‘’festival’’?
  • In the section “Live performances”, variations of the word “perform” are used 25 times, and it’s rather noticeable. Got thesaurus?
    • Reduced repetition of the word. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Dom Dolla found his remix difficult to create because the song is written in a major key”. In “Music and lyrics”, it states that the song is in B minor.
  • ”It was proceeded by the release” um … preceded?
  • ”Yaeji intended to have different sonics than the original” sounds colloqiual (remember that people with English not as first language will read this and may be confused)
  • ”dance created by Filipino TikTok creator” created … creator
  • ”converting it into a country ballad with an upbeat production.” don’t know what “upbeat production” means in this context
  • ”"Don't Start Now" was apart of the jellyfish (Chloe Kim)'s setlists.” eh? Need context, or leave the jellyfish out of it
  • ”In Dancing with the Stars and Strictly Come Dancing, actress Anne Heche and television presenter Clara Amfo both respectively performed a cha cha dance to the song.” I don’t think “respectively” should be used in this way

Thanks for the comments Esculenta! I have addressed all your comments. LOVI33 21:45, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Guerillero edit

  • I am very uncomfortable with the use of tweets. We use secondary sources
    • Yes I believe it is okay to use in this context per WP:TWITTER as I was unable to find secondary sources to back up this information. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Pardon my chiming it, but the info backed by Twitter are not noteworthy imo. For instance, "Don't Start Now" premiered at 23:00 UTC on 31 October 2019 does this really matter the exact time the song premiered? Sounds like this belongs to a fanwiki rather than an encyclopedia. In November 2019, a vertical video was released on Spotify and a lyric video was released on YouTube. I believe this can be supported by third-party sources; otherwise it would cause no harm removing it. HĐ (talk) 15:56, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The music video has received over 450 million views on YouTube" why does this matter if it isn't discussed in the secondary sources
  • Is this a reliable source? https://www.songwriteruniverse.com/ian-kirkpatrick-songwriter-2020.htm
    • This is in the sourcing concerns above. I am trying to finish my analysis in the next few days. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Lipa recorded most of her vocals with a Shure SM7 microphone." probably needs to be cited
    • It is sourced. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are citing the sheet music via the vendor, but the source creator is the artist https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0203029
    • Do you want me to remove it? Usually this source is reputable. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • How did fans get the lyrics to the song?
    • Source does not say. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with the sourcing concerns above
    • Will respond to them in the next few days. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

--Guerillero Parlez Moi 03:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments Guerillero. I have responded to them all. LOVI33 03:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Guerillero. Were you intending to support or oppose this nomination? If so, do you feel that toy have enough information? Or are there more comments to come? Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:18, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm waiting on the replies to Ealdgyth, above -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 00:43, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request for the coordinators edit

@FAC coordinators: I would like this nomination to be closed. I think the source review is too much and this is not ready for FA yet. Thanks. LOVI33 20:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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