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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Deja Vu (Olivia Rodrigo song)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Hog Farm via FACBot (talk) 9 October 2022 [1].

Deja Vu (Olivia Rodrigo song) edit

Nominator(s): NØ 11:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Olivia Rodrigo's song "Deja Vu". Though her popularity exploded with the number-one hit "Drivers License", many critics thought her second single was even better than it. The song also performed strong commercially and debuted at number eight on the Billboard Hot 100, making Rodrigo the first artist in history to debut their first two singles in the top 10. It interpolates a Taylor Swift fan-favorite called "Cruel Summer". I worked on this article a bit earlier in the year and I think it is in a good position with respect to the FA criteria. Thanks a lot to everyone who will take the time to give their feedback here.--NØ 11:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review (pass) edit

Unfortunately, I will be unable to do a full prose review, but I will still help out by looking through the images.

  • File:Olivia Rodrigo - Deja Vu.png: The image has a clear purpose in the article and a complete WP:FUR. I appreciate the archived source link, and the WP:ALT text is solid.
  • File:Olivia Rodrigo with Dr Fauci 1.png: The image has clear WP:ALT text and the information on the Wikimedia Commons end looks solid to me. I would recommend revising the caption to include the year the photo was taken for full context but that is not an absolute requirement for this image review.
  • Do you think it would be helpful to include an audio sample?

This FAC passes my image review. I do have a minor suggestion for one of the image captions but it is nothing that will hold back my review from passing. I also have a question about including an audio sample, but that is more outside of the realm of an image review. I hope this was helpful and best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 23:52, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this. Regarding a sample, I considered it unnecessary for this article as I believe the song's composition is amply described by words. Hope you're having a great weekend.--NØ 04:26, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the response. That makes sense to me. I respect your choice as usage of non-free media should be kept to minimum and you should not force something into an article if there is not a clear and defined need for it. I hope you have a great rest of your weekend as well! Aoba47 (talk) 23:03, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review (passed) edit

  • Sources are reliable
  • Shouldn't Rolling Stone be italicized for ref #6?
  • Some Rolling Stone refs are tagged with |url-access=limited but some are not
  • I believe The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times refs should be tagged with |url-access=limited
  • Spotchecks: 1, 7, 11, 18, 19, 22, 35, 50.
  • Why the quote in ref #5?
  • Out of curiosity, why don't we use {{single chart}} for the Billboard charts in the table? Ippantekina (talk) 02:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All addressed. Regarding point 7, Billboard does not seem to maintain a chart history record for Rodrigo yet, which would probably be located here when it gets created.--NØ 02:55, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This source review passes. Ippantekina (talk) 01:53, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pseud 14 edit

Article is in great shape overall, a few comments:

  • set in Malibu, California -- I think it should be filmed in Malibu, California
  • on the set lists for her 2022 concert tour Sour Tour, and Glastonbury Festival 2022. -- "tour" and "2022" are a bit repetitive here, perhaps tweak this.
  • He direct messaged Rodrigo suggesting they make music together. – DM is a bit informal, perhaps "he reached out to Rodrigo" or "connected with Rodrigo"
  • a month after "Drivers License" -- was this a month after DL was released? Or a month after working on/writing DL? Perhaps some clarification is needed.
  • eating strawberry ice cream, trading jackets, -- these seems to be WP:OVERLINK
  • ensnarling production -- the source says ensnaring, unless I misunderstood. Perhaps you can simplify for unfamiliar readers since it is not in a direct quotation, per WP:NOTSIMPLE.
  • Changed to "enmeshing". Apologies if this is still too complex and I'd be glad to open up to suggestions.

Great work, I have not read the other editors' comments so apologies if there are repetitions/overlaps. Pseud 14 (talk) 20:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for the review, Pseud 14! Very helpful and there weren't any overlaps. These should be addressed now.--NØ 06:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My concerns have been addressed. Support. Pseud 14 (talk) 14:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47 edit

Addressed commnets
  • This is likely a dumb question so apologies in advance. Could you clarify what you mean by "retroactive interpolation"? I read this as meaning this interpolation was put in later, but from my understanding, this was something identified in the song later. I'd just like some clarification about this part.
  • What I was trying to convey is the identification. So I've removed this word.
  • To continue with the interpolation bit, was there any commentary or criticism tying this in the larger issues in the music industry (specifically the seemingly rising case of lawsuits around plagiarism in songs like "Shake It Off" and "Dark Horse")? I vaguely remember the retroactive insert of writing credits being a rather big moment so I would think there is more on that. I was thinking of stuff like this source.
  • I don't think I can connect it to any official lawsuits without inserting original research, so I've now mentioned Swift's writing credits on another Sour track instead. The piece in the above link seems to be by a law school student so are you sure its reliable with regards to the FA standard?
  • You are correct. It would not be reliable enough by Wikipedia's standard let alone a FA standard, Apologies for that as I missed that. My primary question still stands. I remember there when the writing credits were added retroactively, there was a discussion about it connected with the state of music and creativity as a whole. Were any of these discussions picked up and addressed by third-party, reliable sources? It could just be a case where it was more so discussed in forums and the like. Aoba47 (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not sure the comma is needed here, they did, in his new relationship, but I am uncertain so I wanted to ask you first.
  • For this part, which Rodrigo released as her debut single, I'd say "she released" as Rodrigo is repeated twice in the same sentence and this would be clear in context.
  • I'd link bridge in this part, The song's bridge was influenced, to help readers less familiar with music jargon. I would also link hook later in the article.
  • For Citation 6, the entire title should not be in italics, and I would include a time-stamp to where in the video this information is supported.
  • Since interpolation is linked in the article, it should be linked in the lead as well for consistency.
  • I'd clarify the attribution for these quotes, pretty chimes" and "blown-out electronics", as it is not immediately clear to me.
  • I believe these work best as part of the same sentence, and since these quotes are from different critics (The Independent and The Guardian), I am having a hard time working the critic names into it. Apologies for that.
  • My issue with these quotes is the attribution is not made immediately clear to readers which leaves room for misinterpretation on who is saying what. I have been told in the past to not use quotes without clear attribution in the prose (or they become "ghost quotes" for a lack of a better descriptor). I would be interested to see how other reviewers respond to this point. Aoba47 (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apologies for beating a dead horse, but I have a question about this part, alleged similarity with "Cruel Summer". The earlier section clearly says the song was influenced by "Cruel Summer", but this section is more coy about it by saying "alleged".
  • Maura Johnston should be linked in the article and in the citation. I would double-check the music critics to make sure you did not miss anyone else.
  • I have a comment about this sentence, Chicago Tribune shared the latter's viewpoint. I'd avoid saying "shared" when it comes to reviews unless the Chicago Tribune critic explicitly tied his review to the Rolling Stone one. Plus, this sentence does not really add anything new for the reader. I'd recommend removing it.
  • The quotation marks in this part, described it as a "'don't know what you're missing' fantasy" that flourishes under thick drums and hurtingly relatable snark, do not cover the full quote.
  • This is more of a clarification question, but I am guessing the music video did not receive a lot of coverage? I must admit that I am rather surprised since it is still one of her earlier singles, but music videos in general seem to be falling out of popularity.
  • I attribute this to Rodrigo releasing the song, music video, and the album preorder on the same day (April Fool's, no less!), which probably took critical attention away from the video.
  • Understandable. Thank you for the clarification. Aoba47 (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I hope this review is helpful. I will read through the article again once everything has been addressed. Best of luck with the FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 21:34, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am ecstatic you found the time to review this after all! Thanks and I await your reread.--NØ 04:57, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your responses. Apologies for pressing the point, but I was curious about your response to my question about the larger (potential) commentary about the retroactive writing credits. It could have been a case it was more discussed in forums (and less in reliable publications) but I wanted to clarify that point before re-reading the article. I am not 100% sold on the quote issue as I believe attribution is important, but again, I'd be curious on how other reviewers respond to that point. I will re-read the article either tomorrow or on Tuesday at the latest. Aoba47 (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have read through the article a few more times and I could not find anything to comment on further. I support this FAC for promotion based on the prose. If successful, this would be the second song FA with this title (alongside the Beyoncé song), I believe that would be the first time that happened. It is super minor, but I think that kind of stuff is interesting lol. Aoba47 (talk) 02:57, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Anarchyte edit

Sour is a fun album. I'll be happy to have a read over this shortly. Here are a couple of comments to start off:

  • It could be interesting to mention "Deja Vu"'s appearance on the Triple J Hottest 100, 2021. Garnered the #33 spot alongside four other songs from Sour (two placed higher).
  • it heralded Rodrigo's "tru[e] arriv[al]" - can probably paraphrase this to avoid restructuring the tense of the quote. Not much will be lost by losing "truly arrived".

Anarchyte (talk) 14:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for taking the time! I've accepted both of these suggestions and am excited for any other comments you may have.--NØ 18:14, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Triple J, it's probably more suited next to the rest of the Australian information: "... Australian Recording Industry Association certified it 3× Platinum. It appeared at number 33 on the 2021 Triple J Hottest 100, alongside four other songs from Sour" or something of the like. Anarchyte (talk) 04:16, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • direct messaged - unless the article intends on making more of a point out of the quote ("I literally DM’d her that second"), this can be replaced with "contacted" or a similar synonym.
  • Rodrigo and Nigro co-wrote the song "Drivers License" - I like that the article provides background on their past work, but if possible, a timeframe for Drivers License would be nice for context. It notes that Drivers License was her debut in January 2021, but then jumps back to August 2020 for Deja Vu.
  • Notes application - very minor detail, but if the article is going to capitalise Notes, do we know if it was Notes (Apple)? Otherwise, if it's not an official name, it can probably be lowercase.
  • It may be interesting to explore the contrast between the original notes version and the final version: "Do you get déjà vu when she's with you?"
  • I think this would make a great addition if there was a critical piece analyzing why this change occurred, but alas there does not seem to be one.
  • I don't see the relevance of Salt Lake City.
  • She chose "Deja Vu" as her second single - personal opinion, but I think the ending of this paragraph might fit better after "On March 29, she revealed its title, "Deja Vu", artwork, and release date" or the MTV news sentence
  • Link Wurlitzer and Juno 60 to their relevant articles.
  • "angry-chanty thing" - unencyclopedic.
  • Now a quote directly attributed to the critic to make it clear this is not in Wikipedia voice.
  • reached the same destination - unsure what this means.
  • On the song - does "Throughout the song" work?
  • as an element that recalled Swift as well - consider "an element reminiscent of Swift as well".

Here are some more comments. Will continue later. Anarchyte (talk) 10:39, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll let you get through the rest of the article and complete your review before making further changes so it's not changing too much in between your reads. Regards.--NØ 11:16, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on what I've been told in past reviews, you will need some citations for "many of whom perceived it as a strong follow-up to "Drivers License"." as this is a generalised statement.
  • Since the three sentences immediately following this one are a testament to it, I believe we could get away with not putting them here altogether to avoid citation overkill.
  • its similar subject matter - do "their similar subject matter" or "their shared subject matter" work?
  • a likewise illustrious follow-up - cut "likewise".
  • honed - I'm not aware of a definition that meets the context here.
  • "first-ballot hall of fame material" - unclear what this means. Perhaps paraphrase.
  • with Joel on piano - Billy Joel was only named in Composition and the context of "Joel" in Live performances does not encourage someone to make the connection. Should write out his name in full and consider rewording the tour mention to avoid repetition.

That's all from me. Anarchyte (talk) 09:49, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • One other idea that I'm not set on but just want to share is adding a photo of Ryder to the Music video section. Could be a useful juxtaposition with the photo of Rodrigo earlier in the article. Anarchyte (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot for your review, Anarchyte! While I think the Ryder picture taking up two sections is a little too much, I've kept this for now as it complements the music video part quite well. Let me know what you think about how it looks.--NØ 16:22, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IMO the picture is a good addition. All my concerns have been addressed. Support. Anarchyte (talk) 03:17, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski edit

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede
  • Fixed NØ 16:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • producer Dan Nigro; Taylor Swift, Jack Antonoff, and St. Vincent received - I feel like the semi-colon makes this sentence not work. Can we not just say "with". Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • done NØ 16:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • removed NØ 16:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed NØ 16:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • and included it on the set lists for her 2022 Sour Tour and the Glastonbury Festival. - there's a word missing here, as her Tour and festival isn't right Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not following exactly what you are referring to but added the word "concert" in case that fixes the problem . NØ 16:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was just that we were saying "her Tour and Festival". Her festival isn't right. Concert works. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Prose
  • "I just got the chills and I was like, 'Oh my God, her voice is insane.'" - quite seems overkill, couldn't we say that he thought "her voice was insane"? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shortened NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • paraphrased the two instances where they were unattributed NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • began teasing the release of a new song by deleting posts from her Instagram account and sharing cryptic teasers - bit of a nitpick, but "began teasing by sharing teasers". Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • fixed NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • done NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Taylor Swiftian" pop song - can we not say "likened to Taylor Swift" or similar? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the direct quote in this instance best expresses the degree to which the critic compared the songs NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it suitable in the MOS not to have critical reception and commercial performance as seperate sections, rather than under "Reception". Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • these are always preferred separate unless one of them is too short (not the case here) NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Deja Vu" reached the top 20 of national record charts, at number two in Ireland,[64] number three in Malaysia,[65] Singapore,[66] number four in Latvia,[67] number five in Portugal,[68] number 10 in the Czech Republic,[69] number 11 in South Africa,[70] number 15 in India,[71] number 17 in Lebanon,[72] Lithuania,[73] Norway,[74] and number 19 in Greece,[75] Hungary,[76] Slovakia.[77] The song earned a Platinum certification in Norway,[78] Portugal,[79] Poland[80] and Gold in Denmark,[81] Italy,[82] Sweden.[83] - I feel like we could bundle this so all of the refs are at the end of the sentence. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • not possible as most of them are auto-generated by the singlechart templates and that would be one abnormally long ref NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • One sentence has an oxford comma, one doesn't and the last doesn't have an "and" at all. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • fixed NØ 15:29, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:42, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, Lee Vilenski. Let me know if there's anything else.--NØ 13:15, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @FAC coordinators: Would like to nominate another one in a few days, if I have your permission. Regards and hope you're doing well.--NØ 19:09, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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