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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cherry Springs State Park/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 18:32, 12 May 2009 [1].

Cherry Springs State Park

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Nominator(s): Dincher (talk) and Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:22, 6 May 2009 (UTC) [reply]
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We are nominating this for featured article because we believe it represents some of the best work that Wikipedia has to offer regarding state parks. It follows four FAs as models (Black Moshannon State Park, Worlds End State Park, Leonard Harrison State Park and Colton Point State Park) and has undergone an extensive peer review (thanks to MBisanz, doncram, Jackyd101, Brianboulton, Michael Devore, Moni3, and Finetooth). We also want to thank Kevin Wigell for four astronomy photographs, Curt Weinhold for photographs of telescopes in the park, and the astronomy domes in the snow, and Timothy Morey for help with the OTRS license of the Woodsmen's Show (still in progress) and coauthoring the very useful park history.

Since the most noteworthy aspect of the park is the clarity and darkness of its night skies, the lead image is the view of the Milky Way as photographed from within the park. The article also follows the MOS on naming plants and animals: title case for common names of species throughout (see WP:BIRDS) and lower case for non-specific names such as eagle or bilberry, which may work well for articles with a broad coverage of natural history

Thanks in advance for any feedback, Dincher (talk) and Ruhrfisch ><>°° 19:22, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I thought this article was very well-written and enjoyable to read, and I agree that it's representative of WP's best work. The many images make it very attractive; I especially like the panorama at the end. I'll list a few minor quibbles, none of which affect my support vote. Sasata (talk) 07:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • "...a hotel replaced the tavern in 1874, then burned in 1897." Did it just burn, or did it burn down?
Thanks - Harrison and Morey's history of the park just says The first chapter of Cherry Springs’ history ended when the hotel burned in 1897 and was abandoned. I assume it burned down, as the picture I have seen of it shows a wooden structure - would it read better as "burned down"? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was thinking originally (I'm more used to the expression "burned down"), but it's probably fine the way it is. Sasata (talk) 06:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...were under the nominal control of the Iroquois, who lived in long houses," Not sure what the relevance of the long houses is
Both the Susquehannocks and Iroquios lived in long houses and they also both spoke languages in the Iroquoian family, so it shows the connections between them. It also counters the common misconception that all Native Americans lived in teepees. Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good call, since they cut the forests and burned the wood to make charcoal for iron furnaces, I linked charcoal instead of coal mining. Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • How about using the inflation convert template to give the acquisition prices in current dollars?
While I like the idea in theory, I am not sure how practical it is. There are three places where dollar figures are given. The first two are in the cost for the major acquisitions was an average of $2.50 per acre ($6.18 per ha). The original source says these purchases were over a thirty year or so period (1901 to 1930, if I recall correctly), so I am not sure how to adjust these for inflation. Should I just plug in 1930? The only other price is the acquisition of natural gas rights in 2007, so is inflation since then (two years) great enough to add in? Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 13:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking about the old purchase price, as it's nice to have a current dollar amount to help give the $$ value perspective, but I see the expanded time frame complicates it. How about determining what both the 1901 and 1930 current equivalent values would be, averaging the two, and qualifying the value with "roughly equivalent to xx 2009 dollars"? Sasata (talk) 06:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I double checked the "Public Use Map for Susquehannock State Forest" which says the first purchase for the state forest was made in 1901 and that "By 1949, all the major purchases of the forest land had been made at an average cost of $2.50 per acre." (so I was off a few years in my recollection.) Using the {{Inflation}} template, $2.50 in 1901 dollars would be $92 today, while $2.50 in 1949 dollars would be $32 today. Following your suggestion, I averaged these two figures ($65 and $23) to get $44 per acre ($109 per ha) in 2009 dollars. I also left a note on this at the article's talk page and a hidden comment in the article. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • After clearing the woods, they planted stands of Norway Spruce and white pine, as well as an apple orchard." Why link Norway spruce but not white pine?
Eastern White Pine is already linked at the first occurrence in the previous Pioneers and lumber section. Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I didn't see the acronym NRHP defined anywhere in the text, although it's used several times
Good catch - now after the first use in the lead, thanks Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Both creeks are approved trout streams for fishing, which means they will be stocked with trout in season." will be -> are
Are. Dincher (talk) 10:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Within the park, overhead electrical lines have been buried so they do not obstruct views," Can they be called overhead if they are buried?
Changed it to Within the park, former overhead electrical lines have been buried so they do not obstruct views... is this better? Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 13:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect. Sasata (talk) 06:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Linked. Dincher (talk) 10:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "All these were before it was named an International Dark Sky Park..." -> all of these commendations
Thank you for your kind words and support. I will try to make your suggested changes, but a little annoyance called work is calling me to leave soon. Dincher (talk) 10:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My thanks too - I have fixed most of the rest and will work on the remaining items next. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support with comments and a few questions:-

  • (Lead) "the state forest was established in 1901 and contains a second growth forest. A forest contains a forest? Sounds a bit awkward; could you refer to a "second-growth woodland" while keeping the link via a pipe?
  • (Lead) First sentence, third paragraph: "Cherry Springs State Park was named Pennsylvania's first dark sky park by the DCNR in 2000, and the adjoining Cherry Springs Airport, built in 1935, was closed and its land was added to the park to expand its stargazing area in 2006." This is really two sentences, with a superfluous "was" for good measure and an awkwardly placed date. My suggestion is: "Cherry Springs State Park was named Pennsylvania's first dark sky park by the DCNR in 2000. The adjoining Cherry Springs Airport, built in 1935, was closed and its land added to the park in 2006, to expand its stargazing area."
  • (Native Americans): Should there be a linking sentence between the first paragraph and the rest of the section? The first para seems to be discussing Pennsylvania as a whole, rather than the specific region of the park.
    • Before there is recorded history, information on the Native Americans is based on archeology and is pretty general and broad (centuries and statewide). With the start of written records we start to get more specific information (which tribes lived where and when), but the level of detail is still fairly coarse (the Susquehanna River drainage basin where the Susquehannocks lived is roughly half the state, for example). I will think about some sort of linking sentence, thanks Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, I tweaked the first sentence of the first two paragraphs here - to make it clearer the first paragraph is based on archeology and the second (and following) paragraph(s) are based on the historical record. I hope this is better, thanks Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Native Americans): "...primarily in what is now Newc York." City or State?
  • Does the term "Last Purchase" (capitalised and in quotes) have a particular meaning – is it a quote?
    • It refers very specifically to the land in Pennsylvania acquired in the second Treaty of Fort Stanwix. To confuse matters the same treaty led to the acquisition of land in other US states, and despite the name it was the next to last purchase of land that became Pennsylvania (the Erie Triangle was the last bought, from the federal governemnt as four states claimed it). It is a quote and I am always aware it was not really the "last" purchase, so I tend to put the name in quotes. Would it read better without quotes? Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Pioneers and lumber): This sentence: "The hotel was in a very remote location 16 miles (26 km) south of Coudersport, and had very few visitors other than the occasional wandering traveler or Native American." The second "very" should go. Also, I imagine that the few visitors were the occasional wandering traveler or Native American, but as you have worded it it sounds as though there was another category of visitor. Perhaps simplify?
removed the very and made a change to the visitors sentence. Dincher (talk) 20:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Pioneers and Lumber): "This era was not to last, as the more profitable lumber industry came to West Branch and surrounding townships, which were home to "some of the tallest, straightest timber left standing" along the East Coast of the United States." Could you clarify – is it that the era of hunting and angling ended because the lumber industry arrived and, as it were, trashed the landscape?
    • Yes, that is it. Added "as a 'sportsmen’s paradise'" so it now reads This era as a "sportsmen's paradise" was not to last..., which then ties into the Ecology section later. Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Civilian Conservation Corps): "...a park of which the people of Potter County can be proud of." It's part of a quote, but shouldn't the repeated "of" be highlighted with a (sic)? (I love doing that).
  • (Same section): DCNR hasn't been mentioned since the lead and I'd forgotten what it was. Could it be written out here?
  • (Same section): It's probably truer to say they built an "airfield", rather than an airport, which is what it evidently became later.
  • (Modern era): The "Dark Sky Fund" was established – a little more information is due about this body and how it operated.
    • Thanks - it still operates and there is more about its activities and receiving an award later. I changed it here to In 1999 the "Dark Sky Fund" was established and continues "to enhance the stargazing and astronomy experience" by funding improvements at the park.[10] Is this clearer or is still more needed here? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Geology and climate): I'm no expert, but from what I've read, the description of Gondwanaland as "Europe and Africa" doesn't seem quite accurate. Weren't the components of Gondwanaland essentially from the southern hemisphere?
    • Thank you so much - not sure how this slipped in, but you are absolutely correct. Changed it to ...formed in the Alleghenian orogeny some 300 million years ago, when Gondwana (specifically what became Africa) and what became North America collided, forming Pangaea. I will check other articles as I think this error shows up elsewhere - eek. Thanks again, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Astronomical observing): I can't quite fathom the dimension "4-and-6-foot". Does this mean 4 x 6 feet?
    • They are square pads of two sizes (4 foot square and 6 foot square). Changed it to "next year 4-and-6-foot (1.2 and 1.8 m) square concrete pads" - is this clearer? Thanks, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Whoops, my recollection was faulty - when all else fails go back to your sources. The pads are roughly circular and so are 4 or 6 feet in diameter - see photos 19, 24, or 29 on the website. I changed it to The next year concrete pads 4 and 6 feet (1.2 and 1.8 m) in diameter were placed at random in the field... Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:53, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

These are all minor points which I don't anticipate will cause any difficulty in resolving. Congratulations on a fine article; as already stated by another reviewer, the panoramic photograph is a particular joy. Brianboulton (talk) 18:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments and the support! Dincher (talk) 20:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your kind words, earlier review, and support, working on addressing all your questions, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I believe all of your points have now been addressed - thanks again, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support I did one of the peer reviews of this article. All of my concerns, except for two new ones, have been addressed, and I have no doubt that the article meets the criteria. I especially like the illustrations, which seem to me to be far above average. I have posted some further thoughts about inflation data on the article's talk page; they might or might not be useful. I would also suggest a slightly different wording for the "square pad" sentence to avoid confusion and the triple-hyphen problem. Suggestion: "The next year two sets of square concrete pads of either 4 square feet (0.37 m2) or 6 square feet (0.56 m2) were placed at random in the field." It crossed my mind that the pads might be 4 feet or 6 feet on each side. Four square feet is pretty small. Finetooth (talk) 21:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for the support and the help over on PR. Dincher (talk) 01:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks too for your kind words, earlier review, and support. I believe both points you raised have now been addressed, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image review as follows:

I have asked Stifle to check the OTRS tickets, so I guess this only requires some waiting...? Jappalang (talk) 03:46, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support Was excellent when I peer reviewed it and is even better now. I have no additional comments.--Jackyd101 (talk) 00:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the support and the PR! Dincher (talk) 00:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My sincere thanks for your review, kind words, and support too, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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