Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Canis Major/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose 23:49, 7 August 2014 [1].
Contents
Canis Major edit
Trying to work up bigger constellations without the prose coming across as too listy - this article came together quite well I thought. Home of the brightest star in the sky and a bunch of interesting things. Have a read, tell me what I can fix and enjoy (hopefully) Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:19, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by Cambalachero edit
First, the image review. File:Canis Major IAU.svg comes from a site with an appropiate license, but it still contains a pair of logos at the bottom right. Their copyright section clearly said that their logo is not freely licensed, and so it must be removed from the image (watermarks are usually removed anyway). Besides, it may be better if the "source" was not just a raw link that simply reads "[1]". File:CMa setting.jpg has a "summary" section that repeats the content of the description, remove it. And what about removing the lower portion of the photo, so that we see just the sky and not the portion of the plane's window? (there's also the plane wing, but I don't think we can do anything about that). File:Sidney Hall - Urania's Mirror - Canis Major, Lepus, Columba Noachi & Cela Sculptoris.jpg is a featured image, and I don't see any problem with it. File:CanisMajorCC.jpg comes from a site with a copyright notice, but the author uses the same name both there and in Commons. Perhaps you should send a mail to the author (in his page) to ask him to confirm that the user in Commons is also him, and that he's aware that he's re-licensing the photos by uploading them here. File:Stars fleeing a cosmic crash.jpg seems fine --Cambalachero (talk) 20:25, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Removed duplicate material. I would think leaving some reference point is good, depends what one sees as the interesting part of the image. If you crop it so it is just sky, then it is just a blurry picture of the constellation. Actually the more i think about it, it really doesn't add to the article except in an amusing and possibly noncyclopedic manner, so I will remove it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:00, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Would the logo not be part of attribution? This is the copyright notice on the original site, and this is (presumably) the version they are happy with being reproduced, given it is on the website....all 88 constellations have this image.....
will redo the sourcesource rewritten. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:51, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Casliber. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Support
and commentsfrom Jim Usual high quality, Cas, just a couple of minor points you might take a look at Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:36, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- KAK.SI.DI, BAN, MULAPIN— Why are the Babylonian words fully capped? I can hardly bring myself to write this, but is it consistent with MoS for capitalisation?
- it's consensus on how the words are transcribed from Babylonian. We discussed this somewhere before - can't recall where. Will have a look later. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Alternate names— too American for my tastes, "alternative" is meant, the names don't alternate
- beat him up—too informal, even for Oz
- polygon of 4 sides. — spell out "four", or better still replace the phrase with the equivalent but more concise "quadrilateral". As written, it's like using "polygon of three sides" in preference to "triangle"
Comments by Cwmhiraeth edit
It reads well, but really I am too unfamiliar with the astronomical depth of the article to be able to comment properly. A few points on the prose:
- "In non-western astronomy" - Are Arab astronomers and Tunisian shepherds considered to be "western"?
- "The Wild Cockerel (Yějī 野雞) was at the centre of the Military Market and its stars were uncertain." - needs some clarification of what the second part means.
- "Southeast of the Wolf was the asterism Húshǐ (弧矢), the celestial Bow and Arrow, ..." - This sentence is too long and complex.
- "To the Boorong people of Victoria, Sigma Canis Majoris was Unurgunite, and its flanking stars Delta and Epsilon his two wives." - I would add "were" to the last part of this.
- You mention that Lepus is "the hare" but not that Columba is "the dove".
- "Sirius is also a binary star; its companion is called Sirius B, which has a magnitude of 8.4" - What is the magnitude of Sirius A then? Perhaps that's a silly question but this paragraph describes Sirius as a star and then states it is in fact two stars.
- "... is another star that has been classified Beta Cephei variable, ..." - I would insert "as a" in this sentence.
- "... is now undergoing nuclear fusion of helium to generate energy." - The use of the active rather than the passive tense here makes it sounds as if the star has a purpose!
- "At the other extreme is ..." - At the other extreme from What?
- "However the fainter star is the more massive at 19 Solar masses ..." - "Solar mass" is lowercase elsewhere in the article.
- "... yellow and orange stars and covers an area the size of the full Moon ..." - Perhaps use the word "apparent size".
- "On the other hand, a globular cluster in Puppis, NGC 2298 ..... and instead be of extragalactic origin." - The verb form is wrong at the end of this sentence. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:27, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I am happy with the alterations you have made and now support on the grounds of prose and comprehensiveness. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:38, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by Victoriaearle edit
Hi, Cas - almost total layperson here, without a bit of knowledge! It'll take me a while to read through (frankly haven't a clue what I'm reading) but a couple of questions:
- input from laypeople is essential to make the damn thing as readable as possible :) - your copyedits were fine, just had to revert to "3 Canis Majoris", which is a Flamsteed designation. cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:39, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- "History and mythology" (which is an interesting read) is followed by "In non-western astronomy". I'd think the second section is also history & mythology? I came away unsure whether the Chinese, Maori and Tharumba still believe these myths and thought you might want to consider retitling the sections along the lines of "History & Mythology" with subsections for western and non-western.
- "Stars" - Section is a lot of gray space and is very stuffed. Maybe move the pic down to break it up?
Sorry that's as far as I've gotten, but interesting reading. In my part of the world I know it as the winter dog star. Pls ping to remind me if I don't get back to this soon. Oh and made a few tweaks - feel free to revert. Victoria (tk) 01:41, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I'll bring back the comment I deleted last night: in the "Stars" section, for the lay-reader, might be better to move from general to specific. 2nd para seems to be a readable general para; maybe lead the section with that para? That gives the reader a chance to dip in, or out, in the specific description of each star coming after.
- Ok, I have flipped the first two paras and agree the new first para is a much easier intro...my only concern is does it feel like the subject matter is jumping back and forth at all (Sirius to naming to Sirius...?) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:59, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Yep, agree and the reason I've been waffling about that point. But I think it reads well as the first para and I think it's probably okay with the rationale that readers generally don't read from top to bottom but dip in here and there. In that sense it sets up the next section fairly well, imo. Still, it is a bit tricky. Victoria (tk) 15:52, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, I have flipped the first two paras and agree the new first para is a much easier intro...my only concern is does it feel like the subject matter is jumping back and forth at all (Sirius to naming to Sirius...?) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:59, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm having trouble discerning the pattern in presentation of the 20 stars (i.e, brightest stars, biggest stars, location, alphabetical by name/label). Stupid question, but is there a convention in astronomy, or does it matter how they're presented? If it doesn't matter, to pull the lay-reader through, might not be a bad idea to set up topic sentences and clump together stars that share characteristics, or alternatively present them in as they're positioned on the dog (which is there in a few instances). Please ignore this, if not feasible or if uninformed.
- no no, it's a valid question - this is really tricky and can differ from article to article depending on the source material. General principle is to move from brightest stars onwards, but it is hard to avoid listiness, so will try to groups stars with similar facts together (double stars, variable stars etc.) - and then fainter stars (generally only visible thru telescopes) that are often quite unusual toward the end, as well as grouping stars with planets. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:56, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- 5th para: this sentence > "Its traditional name means "the virgins" >> seems to refer to Epsilon Canis Majoris (Adhara), but the first sentence in the para says "Epsilon, Omicron2, Delta and Eta Canis Majoris were called Al Adzari "the virgins" ". That's a little confusing.
- the collective name ended up as the traditional name for the brightest star. Will see if I can find a ref for the change. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:07, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, ok, that makes sense. If the sources allow, maybe something like "Epsilon, Omicron2, Delta and Eta Canis Majoris were called Al Adzari "the virgins" in medieval Arabic tradition – a term now used for Eta Canis Majoris only." Something like that? Not a big deal, really, to be honest. Victoria (tk) 15:52, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- the collective name ended up as the traditional name for the brightest star. Will see if I can find a ref for the change. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:07, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- What's a "B2Iab"? (totally lost me there!)
- "Stars" section describes individual stars and star systems. Can these be broken out into two separate sections for readability or do they need to be together? Again, haven't a clue, so ignore if uninformed. Victoria (tk) 00:33, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- We talk of stars as single points, but half are binary star systems (any multiple star is a star system), and then you have stars with planets. Trying to be as accurate as possible but keep it readable. This is one for following links. Not quite sure how to make it clearer - but they sorta need to be together... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:56, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- On a second read, I think it's okay as is. I was just trying to think of ways of breaking the section up into subjections for lay readers, but that would have its own pitfalls.
- We talk of stars as single points, but half are binary star systems (any multiple star is a star system), and then you have stars with planets. Trying to be as accurate as possible but keep it readable. This is one for following links. Not quite sure how to make it clearer - but they sorta need to be together... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:56, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I've read to the bottom now and no questions/comments about "Deep-sky objects"
- Support - nicely written, tons of information (comprehensive!), and I came away learning a lot! Victoria (tk) 15:52, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Support
- Some duplicate links: Zeus, Canis Major, Canis Minor, Puppis, Lepus, 13 Canis Majoris, Omicron2, Delta Canis Majoris, Sigma Canis Majoris, Eta Canis Majoris, Pi Canis Majoris, Nu2 Canis Majoris, open cluster.
- ESO 489-056 has an image, but is not mentioned in the text anywhere?
- Do we need the See Also? Could it be linked in the In non-western astronomy section?
- Consider adding the Star portal and Astronomy portal links
- Does Sky Pub really need a link?
All in all I think it's a great article that makes engaging reading from what have been a list of stars. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:02, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sources review
- All external links are working
- Ref 11 self-published – what makes it reliable?
- The author is Ian Ridpath - he's adapted material from his book to his (self-published) website Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:40, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 82: what is the meaning of the bracketed "in delaet 11" within the ref?
- Ref 90 lacks page references
- Ref 94: Is it necessary to list all of the 30-odd names of the joint authors? The purpose of the citation is to identify the source, not to credit the authors exhaustively. A judicious "and others" would surely suffice.
- Consistency is required in showing publisher locations for cited texts.
- The list of cited texts should be alphabetical.
Otherwise sources look good, of appropriate quality and properly formatted. Brianboulton (talk) 22:51, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- All sources issues fixed now. Brianboulton (talk) 17:46, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.