User talk:W.carter/Archive 17
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2016 Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Community Survey
The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a committee to lead the search for the foundation’s next Executive Director. One of our first tasks is to write the job description of the executive director position, and we are asking for input from the Wikimedia community. Please take a few minutes and complete this survey to help us better understand community and staff expectations for the Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director.
- Survey, (hosted by Qualtrics)
Thank you, The Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Steering Committee via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:48, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
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A barnstar for you!
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The Teamwork Barnstar | |
| Awarded to Dyddi, Jamesmcardle, Philg88 and W.carter for their precious contributions to make Sydney punchbowls a good article. It was a pleasure and an enriching experience working with you, directly or indirectly, at the GA review. Good luck for the future, we need more successful collabs like this here! Sainsf (talk · contribs) 11:38, 11 June 2016 (UTC) |
Thank You! Ditto, and congrats all around! 
w.carter-Talk 11:46, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
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The Barnstar of Good Humor |
| It is heartwarming to find someone so patient and generous of spirit in the long corridors of Wikipedia. I'm grateful for your clear thinking and willingness to explain to one less in the know, and always with good humour, in particular on Sydney punchbowls GA nomination and Normal lens! JamesMcArdle 12:47, 11 June 2016 (UTC) |
You are too kind as always. I'm just paying forward what I have gained in the past. I think that is the best way to show gratitude to those who took the time to teach me. w.carter-Talk 13:13, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Sydney punchbowls dab Reply
@W.carter: Yes I wondered about the disambig when I saw there was no article including all the East India companies, however I thought it might be confusing for reviewers so mistakenly changed it. Thank you for fixing that! I'll try chasing possible reviewers in Visual Arts and Australian History and see who might be attracted to the task. Best, JamesMcArdle 11:30, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Jamesmcardle: No problem. When in doubt: talk to people and leave a note. Ideally, the link should have been made to a list article, like in this sentence: "The church ruins on Gotland are marked as cultural heritage sites". But it's an imperfect world and when no such list or article exists, you do the second best thing. w.carter-Talk 11:42, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
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A barnstar for you!
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The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | |
Dear w.carter;  I am delighted to share with you (and with our colleague Sainsf) this barnstar, which I was awarded by Jamesmcardle for helping with his signature but, since you two first identified his need for assistance and the appropriate solution, I feel it should be shared within our spontaneous team of three.  James still needs to apply the latest update to his signature, but I daresay it should be alright after that. Thank you for all your contributions to our encyclopedia and for helping your fellow editors. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 14:41, 19 June 2016 (UTC) |
Article
Dear W.carter,
So, I'm back and decided to proceed to the action without any delay - I spent a good portion of the time, trying to find additional information about Elisavet Spathari to enrich the existing text, but the result just confirmed the rightness of the Japanese proverb: "you cant add a word to the song." Thus, the article, at least for the moment, can be considered as entirely complete one.
The task of the "adding the words", from now on, is intended for "the extension of the song" by the editors, who have a wider range of opportunities to do so. I think, that you arranged the article brilliantly as always, and accordingly, in my view it is ready for the submission. What is your opinion about this?
P.S. There is only one single additional source, where ELISAVET SPATHARI, is mentioned as THE EMERITUS DIRECTOR:
1. This paper is part of my in-progress PhD thesis on Social Identity and Status in the Classical and Hellenistic Northern Peloponnese: the evidence from burials being undertaken at the Department of Archaeology of the University of Nottingham, UK. Therefore, no detailed account of the evidence is provided, but a brief overview of my approach. At this point I would like to thank the Director of the 4th Ephorate of Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities in the Argolid Anna Banaka, THE EMERITUS DIRECTOR ELISAVET SPATHARI, the archaeologist Dr Alkistis Papadimitriou, and the post-doctoral fellows at the University of Nottingham Dr Chrysanthi Gallou and Dr Merkourios Georgiadis, for sharing with me their expertise on burials and for being a constant source of encouragement and guidance. A particular debt of gratitude is owed to my Professor W. G. Cavanagh whose expertise guided me through the paths of funerary archaeology.
It only repeats a similar reference in the article that is already included, but if it makes sense it can also be used.
Regards, Chris Oxford Chris Oxford (talk) 21:07, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hello Chris Oxford and welcome back! It is very late here now and I will soon be wrapping up for the evening and head for bed. I will take a look at it all tomorrow evening. Until then, w.carter-Talk 21:11, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Chris Oxford: Since you are talking about proverbs, here's another: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." This means that if you have established notability there is no harm in publishing a short stub article. That's the first step and I took the liberty of moving the article to main since this was done. I also did some more detective work and from the English article Ministry of Culture and Sports (Greece) I followed the link to the Greek article on the same subject el:Υπουργείο Πολιτισμού και Αθλητισμού and got the Greek spelling of Ministry of Culture, "Υπουργείο Πολιτισμού", combined this with "Ελισάβετ Σπαθάρη" and got many hits on Google. I choose a website that seemed reliable where these words were mentioned in the same sentence and translated it. This is now a ref for her title in the article to back up the previous one. The new ref also mentioned that the title was a honorary position, which I added. You can always add the source you mentioned above too, one more ref doesn't hurt. :)
- Now that the article is in the main space and the Greeks at this Wikipedia are alerted to it by the addition of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Greece to its talk page, we can only hope that some Greek editor with better knowledge of the language, will continue to add to it. :) I also created the redirect Elisabet Spathari to the article since it is an alternate spelling of her name. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:17, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter,
It's absolutely stunning. I just started to prepare myself for debates with the sceptical Editors, and suddenly I realized, that the article is already in Wikipedia. So, I thank you so much and congratulate you, as all the work really is done by you, and done perfectly. And I should admit, that my detective rating is also still far behind, but I am learning and my last modest find is already among other references. It's becoming really late now. Will keep in touch. Regards, Chris Oxford. Chris Oxford (talk) 22:35, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Good evening W.carter,
Here is a tasty dish for you, and thank you very much again! My personal goal for the nearest future is to upload several images of architectural pearls to the Commons, and also to take a couple of photos of the minerals from my collection and accordingly upload them to the Commons as well. All the best. Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 19:50, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Chris Oxford: Oh yummie!! An evening snack, just what I needed. Thanks a lot.
Looking forward to see those pictures. Have a very good evening, w.carter-Talk 20:00, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Your email
Hi W.Carter You just wrote to us on Marxist.com re images of Jo Cox. The email you provided however was not a valid one. Please write to us again on contact@marxist.com All the best Hamid Alizadeh 15:20, 20 June 2016 (GMT) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.33.139.183 (talk)
- Hello Hamid, thank you for contacting me, I'll get right back to you through the email you provided. Best, w.carter-Talk 14:24, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hi again, hope you read this since I have tried three times to email you to the email above, but it keeps bouncing back. Anyway, this is what I had to say:
- Things can move as quickly on the Wikipedia as on any news website. We were, rather desperately, looking for a picture of Jo Cox for the article about her. This led me to your website. You were the only online source who had tagged your public domain image correctly! Some more searching led me to the www.parliament.uk website were the pic was from originally and I could find a better one under the same free license. Thanks to your diligence we now have a good free image for an article that has so far had over 1 million readers. We are very grateful that you in this way helped the spreading of information! :) Best, w.carter-Talk 14:48, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
Non-free rationale for File:Jo Cox, British politician.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Jo Cox, British politician.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.
If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 00:33, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Thryduulf thanks for the message. At the time of uploading, I and some other editors, thought that the pic was free under Open Parliament Licence. Apparently not so. Another editor tried to convert it to fair use but failed to provide the complete license. Since the pic is now replaced by the first one, please go ahead and delete this one. w.carter-Talk 08:57, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
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Your addition of a copyright notice
This edit by you added a copyright notice to the article! I scratched my head, then conjectured that you were an "innocent victim" of a half-clever (but apparently worthwhile) automated tool. Do you agree with me, on reflection, that a hand-crafted and more WP-typical ref, for that one footnote, will be preferable? (I'll watch here for reply).
--Jerzy•t 00:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
- @Jerzy:Thank you for noticing this blooper! At first I scratched my head as much as you did wondering how on earth that had happened. :) But yes, that slipped in while I used the Refill tool and I missed spotting it at the time. It is now corrected. If you want to alter it further, please do so. Cheers, w.carter-Talk 08:31, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
- @W.carter:Tnx, i had to guess, & your confirmation is worth buckets of my trying to tease out enuf detail to trust my own guesses. I'll go back to it to be sure that was there wasn't some additional red flag there, now that i can focus in on a clearer gestalt. My money is on everything else being kosher even to my OCD perceptions, now that that (fascinatingly bizarre) anomaly has been cleaned up. (But for now i'm gonna focus on cleaning up an unrelated new & tantalizing clarification strategy that's already blown up in my face.)
--Jerzy•t 09:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
- @W.carter:Tnx, i had to guess, & your confirmation is worth buckets of my trying to tease out enuf detail to trust my own guesses. I'll go back to it to be sure that was there wasn't some additional red flag there, now that i can focus in on a clearer gestalt. My money is on everything else being kosher even to my OCD perceptions, now that that (fascinatingly bizarre) anomaly has been cleaned up. (But for now i'm gonna focus on cleaning up an unrelated new & tantalizing clarification strategy that's already blown up in my face.)
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Third article.
Dear W.carter,
Chris Oxford here.
During the latest weeks, trying to reduce stress, caused by the result of EU referendum, all my free moments I was flipping through the geology and gemmology magazines (including the old ones), and spotted an article, which I did not notice before. This article, which describes the interesting use of labradorite from the Australian deposit by the jewellery designer and artist, written by the person (Dr Ogden), mentioned on the official site of The Gemmological Association of Great Britain (I checked) as "a leading world expert on jewellery history ",
Then I remembered that I had read about this designer in the recent issue of the same magazine and started searching for more, and found another article by Dr Ogden about this artist, and from this moment I began to notice that this designer is the only modern one about whom Dr. Ogden writes – all his other articles about masterpieces of the great artists of the past.
- I decided that this point is interesting and significant enough to turn to the internet, using the information on designer website (web address was given in the article), and verifying its correctness.
All what I managed to find on the internet, has confirmed that this information is correct, but plenty of publications (mentioned on the web), which is possible to consider as the sources, sufficiently reliable to be used as the references, are marked by the years before 2007 and do not appear on Google search, and do not exist in the library, even in the British Museum library, (I phoned and asked them), because this designer started career in Australia, and they do not have these magazines and newspapers in England at all.
But the existing material looks quite promising, and it seems, that it will be suitable to build another article about a notable living person, although I do not think, that this task will be an easy one: I already have a capacious suitcase, densely filled with questions for you, and I’ll be happy, as always, to have your support and advise. I used for search on Google both the designer official and artistic name and I’m building text, relaying only on this material. To prove that I "listened and learned" from your lessons, I decided to submit this material as a text with the citations and bring it to your judgment in this, proper form. I do not think I can handle this article without your expertise and help: it will be, probably, possible not during the work on the third, but just on the tenth-fifteenth article, but even in this case, I would definitely like and prefer to continue working as a team with you, than on my own. As soon, as I will put all finds on the list and bring it to the order, I’ll be back.
For now I have just one question: can I use my own objective and logical conclusions, which are justified by the source-material, or better keep following the facts, mentioned in the media, using only phrases, written by journalists and organizations?
All the best.
Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 16:30, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Chris, glad to hear you are considering a new article. Of course I'll be happy to work with you on it. :) To answer your question first, no you can not draw any conclusions yourself from the sources, that is called "original research" and that is not allowed. See Wikipedia:No original research. You can start with gathering all the links and loose facts you have in your sandbox. I have cleared it for you so just start to load it up with anything you can find. There are no rules for your sandbox except that you can not keep copyrighted material in it.
- If there are articles and things that are hard to find, you can always ask at the Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library. Perhaps you did not know that the WP has it's "own" very extensive library? The Wikipedia librarians in that section have access to libraries and databases all over the world. Just ask at their help desk. Looking forward to this jewelry article! Best, w.carter-Talk 16:48, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Good evening, W.carter, and thank you very much for your reply. Now I’m continuing work on the article, keeping in mind, that I just should stick to the facts and avoid manifestation of any of my own conclusions, and it means that I should stop myself every minute, but if, even so, I will slip into philosophy, I know – you can bring things back to the right road.
The fact that Wiki library do exists was a complete surprise for me. That is really excellent. I will check with them during coming week and will be back with all results Saturday-Sunday.
Talk to you soon.
All the best.
Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 20:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter,
I built the text as a conjoint description of events, by selecting the considerable facts, which was possible to find in the media and on the official websites, arranging it close to chronological order. I decided to sent this text into sand box in this version and then to correct it, according to your advice and to some additional findings.
I tried to obtain as much information as possible by myself and checked all sources before using them as citations and, following your suggestion, I sent a message to the Wiki library several days ago and asked them to help with Australian newspaper, but – no answer yet, so for this moment that is all what I managed to find.
The Article "Treasures of the Salsigne mine and Cue's cute 'fluffy' nuggets" (there Collection Geological is mentioned) published in the Gems & Jewellery UK magazine, March / April 2015, I could not find on the Internet, but I have my own issue of this magazine, as I'm subscribing to it, and I put it as a reference #14, and I have spotted a mention of this article in the Italian internet magazine 'Gemmologia – News' and put it as a citation # 13.
Also, there is an article 'Ring in a New Season', which will came up under the name Shop Talk – S3 amazonaws com on the general page, if you will put on search the name Joanna Angelett, but it looks like "Shop talks" has no own URL: if you'll put on Google the phrase, under which the article exists on the Internet (Shop Talk – S3 amazonaws com) and will add 'Joanna Angelett', you'll have result on the first lines, but without exact link to it, so how is it possible to put it as a reference? For now I used a link to the general page as a citation #15. The text will be in sand box in 15-20 min.
All the best.
Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 17:36, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, I am trapped by this sudden obstacle. The following link has triggered a protection filter: google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDgQFjAE&url=http://www.viewer.i-version.com/iversion/download.aspx?id%3DLHC8GHZPR2%26start%3D8%26end%3D9&ei=q2UYVdboO8Hh7AatxoCYDA&usg=AFQjCNE0poNVgEDSaaDbaOXIHeEV_12SpQ&sig2=6vGMlk6pDJF_pCr-BhY3Ug&bvm=bv.89381419,d.ZGU
I cannot save the article into a sandbox. What should I do? Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 18:00, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Chris, just briefly since I'm occupied with other things. I will help you with all of this after the weekend when I have time for it. See you then! :) w.carter-Talk 18:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Very good evening, W.carter,
Received your message. Will be happy to hear from you, when you will have time. Just wanted to say, that I spotted the link, which has been blocked — that is perfectly safe one, but it was rejected. I eliminated it and managed to place text to the sand box, but noted another problem — the citations appeared in less numbers (7 instead of 18) and accompanied with some kind of letters.
So, I decided to leave text in sand box, but in parallel to sent it to your talk page, to make more clear what happened with citations.
Have a very good weekend.
All the best.
Regards, Chris Oxford.
Reply to Chris
Hi Chris, so let's see here what we've got. First of all I must ask you not to start a new sentence with a space, this will only result in a ugly box on the page. You have been here long enough to know that by now. Instead use the : -sign.
- At the beginning of
- a line each colon
- brings the text one step
- to the right. Look in the editing window of the example above and you will see how it works.
- brings the text one step
- a line each colon
- You can also use this when you want to have a new line, without the white line in-between.
Second, don't copy whole texts here, it is much, much easier to read it in your sandbox to which I already have a link. Do not worry that it will get lost, everything is archived here automatically and can always be retrieved again.
As for the refs, if they have the same URL (web address) they don't have to be repeated, that would just look silly. The letters are perfectly normal, they indicate how many times the same ref has been used but with letters instead of numbers so that it is separated from the numbers of the refs.
The documents you try to link to have been messed up since you actually try to link to a Google search for it. This is how you get the right link:
- When you see your hit in your seach on Google you see the title first in blue (normally). Under that is a smaller text usually in green with a small arrow pointing down. If you click on the arrow a small box with the text "Chached" (or similar in the language you are using. Click on that word. A new page will open, and at the very top of this will be the right link for you to use in the text.
- I could not find the exact search-way for the link above, but I found one to the whole magazine by searching for "Gems and Minerals Designer Joanna Angelett dug deep for the ideal stone". With that search I found "[PDF]12153 Gems and Jewellery Magazine_2.indd – i-version" in the Google list. Clicking on the little arrow and "Chached", I came to a page where this link was at the top: http://www.docs.i-version.com/iversion/download.aspx?id=LHC8GHZPR2. and this is the link that should be used in the ref. Hope you understood some of this...
Looking at the text in your sandbox it is very messy, so to understand some of it I will start with formatting it and tidy up a bit. I see that you have probably copied the text from a Word document or something like that, since you unfortunately have got some slanted quotation marks instead of the straight ones you have to use here. If you look closely you will see the difference:
- slanted: “ ” and straight: " "
Using Word you will also get a lot of double spaces, which is bad in a text here. It would be great if you stayed away from the sandbox until I was done so that there will be no Edit Conflicts, they are such a bother. I'll let you know when I'm finished. We can continue this conversation about the sources you mentioned above when I know more about the article. Best, w.carter-Talk 18:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Done for now... So Chris, I have started to sort out the worst of the problems and I have left comments about everything on the Sandbox talk page. You had messed up the "titles" and "ref names" rather badly, that is why the refs looked so strange. Take a good look at what I've done and see what had gone wrong. I don't have any more time or energy tonight, but we can continue tomorrow or another day. Best, w.carter-Talk 20:46, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, I feel like a champion: it seems, that no one has yet made so many mistakes at the same time. The most incredible thing is that I was even able to make a mistake, which I solemnly promised to the Editor RockMagnetist never repeat ("not to start new sentence with a space"), so, in spite of the great temptation to blame all over the Word, I will take the blame. But seriously, I am so grateful to you for all the massive work, which you have done, and I will take note of all comments and will exactly follow them. With regards to the first name - I copied it from the magazine and newspapers, believing, that this means, that this approach is completely respectful and formal, but it is really two different things - an article in the press and in Wikipedia. On the website of the Jewellery Association (citation #15) Trummer is mentioned as an official name and Angelett as an artist name, which she started to use from 2002, but as in all latest publications it has been used as an artistic pseudonym, I decided to follow and put name Angelett as a title of the article. I will keep staying out of my sandbox. Very great thanks. All the best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 23:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, I haven't heard from you for a while and decided to drop you a short message. I am still staying out of my sandbox, as we agreed; just, according to your advice, put the number of the page in citation 6. Also some businesses will take me out for some time and I will be back in 10-12 days from now. I see, that some important businesses also took you out of editing, and I wish you every success and luck in whatever you are busy with at the moment. All the very best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 08:36, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Chris, I only meant that you should stay out of the sandbox while the "In use" sign was on it. I am so desperately sorry that I was unclear and that you misunderstood me! I was very tired then and sincerely apologize. To recuperate, I took some much needed vacation to enjoy the last warm days of the Swedish summer, and to test my new cameras. I'm more or less back now and I'll be here when you return from your business. Talk to you then, w.carter-Talk 09:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, just read your message - very glad, that you have had a nice holiday and sure, that we will see some excellent photos. About staying out of my sandbox - I laughted for all good five minutes. Amazing! So, when I will be back, will be happy to continue. All the best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 11:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, I'm already at my editing desk and found another citation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Daniels, which I intend to add to, now opened to me, sandbox and this way to enrich the existing one (if it make sense) - there is just more detailed biography of Mr Randy Daniels; and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Faberg%C3%A9 Wiki article about Faberge, mentioned in the text. Also I spotted the description of golden labradorite from Hogarth Range, New South Wales, described in the article Golden Labradorite by Dr Jack Ogden, on the page of Australian museum. http://australianmuseum.net.au/labradorite From some perspective it is relevant to the subject. There is still no news from the Wiki library, thus all what I can add, is the couple of these new links; so, should I try to contact Wiki library again, or the existing material is high-grade enough to establish a notability? All the best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 18:30, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Chris, I think that first of all you should try to organize the article a bit better. Right now it is a bit of a jumble. Select a few headings and sort the facts accordingly, preferably in chronological order within those sections. Please take a look at the article about another noted jeweler Vivianna Torun Bülow-Hübe and see what headings are used there and how the article is structured. Don't think about the lead section yet, we will do that last once the article is more in order. I haven't had time to really asses if she really is notable according to Wikipedia's standards, but I suspect it's ok. A reply from the library would be nice, but that is not something you have to wait for to start fixing up the article. Best, w.carter-Talk 18:47, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, Great thanks for your reply and I will start working on the structure of the article, according to your advice, right now. I will see the article, recommended by you and will try to make the structure as close to this example as possible. As soon as I will get some acceptable result, I will let you know. Thanks again. All the best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 19:08, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
- Part two
Dear W.carter, Now I managed to find on the Internet the article, published in the Gems & Jewellery UK magazine, March/April 2015, p.30-31, called Treasures of the Salsigne mine and Cue's cute 'fluffy' nuggets, which I couldn't find last time + another link http://epaper.mch-group.com/baselworld/2013/bijouterie_296/page25.html . At the moment I did all what I could: built text pretty much in the chronological order and placed citations, taking as an example your work on it. Also I found the name of the Australian PM at the time, and linked it to the Wikipedia article, and several others as well. Right now I'm going to place the text into a sandbox. All the best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 21:57, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello, W.carter, Decided to drop you another message: I need to leave for Germany for a couple of days, so, will be back on coming Sunday; I hope to find time to verify some materials in German magazine Schmuck, mentioned on the web of Angelett Gallery, in local libraries. Wish you a good sunny weather for all holidays. All the best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 20:56, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Chris, thanks for your message. The weather has been very beautiful so I have mostly been outside testing my new camera and uploading pictures on Commons (sort of "playing" instead of doing real work here at WP). ;) I'll take a look at what you have done so far in the sandbox and see what I can do about it. I'll leave notes on the talk page. Looking forward to any new facts and sources you may find. Hope you have a safe and pleasant trip. Drop me a line when you get back again. Best, w.carter-Talk 21:10, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
@Chris Oxford: Welcome back after your travel. I have gone through the article, there was a bit to fix and you can read all about it on the talk page. I have move the article out of your sandbox and into draft-space, so now you can find it at Draft:Joanna Angelett. Notability is established so we can continue in a draft. All my notes are now on Draft talk:Joanna Angelett, read them and see what you think. We can continue after that. Best, w.carter-Talk 16:54, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter,
Thank you very much for welcoming me back and for the great work, what you have done on this article. I’m back and with a good catch: found two articles, mentioned on the web of Angelett Gallery, in two different issues of the Schmuck magazine, and put the material in the text already — now idea of the project became more clear. Going through the points in your letter, I found myself in the forest of my own mistakes, and now I see, that the basic root of majority of them is in my incorrect view on the correct use of sources: I knew the rules of Wikipedia in regards of neutral approach, but I was sure, that it means, that I can’t express my personal opinion, using the words: talented, famous, etc., as it will be my own and, probably, not an objective judgment, but if it is coming from reliable sources, then I can use all information, exactly as it was given there, and the close to the text, the better. Based on this understanding, I took the published articles, as the texts what is necessary to quote, or change it just a bit, using all their definitions — doesn't matter how laudatory they are, because they are not mine, and therefore — objective. From this concept came all the following: "in her beloved land of", "designs continue today to set standards for originality, beauty, and craftsmanship.", "many prestigious venues", "sparkled worldwide recognition" (in the article it is written: "Cup of David garnered worldwide recognition", but I decided… to improve it a bit); from the same side came "leading world expert on jewellery" as it was written about Dr Ogden on the web of the Gemmological Association. But now I understand — the sources are valuable just as the facts providers, not as indisputable examples of definitions. When I read your version of the text, I noted, that it looks without decorations of spoken language, really much more encyclopaedic. Great thanks for this lesson, that is giving the key to understanding of the essence of the approach to the language-point, when writing an article for the Encyclopaedia. I will take into account all your remarques, and will work on it, and I am sincerely very grateful for your invaluable help.
Now in regards of your question: Which "Jerusalem Museum" do you mean?
As I have had just the caption under the photo, I, as you instructed, applied some kind of detective work to it and, with help of deductive approach to research, got such result:
http://mediaserver.dwpub.com/fjd-profile/10920/blmj_article_essence_08.pdf
"Founded in 1992, the Bible Lands Museum is the culmination of a lifetime’s work for Borowski, de- voted to assembling what has become an unparalleled collection of Near Eastern art and antiquities spanning an epoch, from the dawn of civilization to the Byzantine Era. Borowski passed away in 2003, but his legacy and vision remain, protected and championed by his wife Batya, co- founder and Executive Director of the Museum"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Lands_Museum
The Bible Lands Museum is an archaeological museum in Jerusalem, Israel. History " The museum was founded by Elie Borowski in 1992 to house his personal collection. On a visit to Jerusalem in 1981, he met at a hotel, Batya Weiss, who encouraged him to bring his collection to Israel and establish a museum in keeping with his vision. She put him in contact with Jerusalem mayor Teddy Kollek. Borowski heeded her advice, and built the Bible Lands Museum. The two eventually married."
So, it can be concluded with confidence, that the Mrs Borowski (née Weiss), presented on the photo in the article Golden Labradorite, is the Executive Director of the Bible Lands Museum. Investigation complete.
About "What "US officials"?"
Oh no, not FBI again! I hope that it was more related to the achievements in art.
So, I found in Wikipedia following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Naturalization_Service
"The United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) was an agency of the U.S. Department of Justice In 1940, with increasing concern about national security, immigration and naturalization was organized under the authority of the Department of Justice.
In 2003 the administration of immigration services, including permanent residence, naturalization, asylum, and other functions, became the responsibility of the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS), which existed under that name only for a short time before changing to its current name, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)."
If Angelett already came to USA in 2002, then the U.S. Department of Justice was in charge at that time — so, we can put it as: "...was recognized as "The Artist with Extraordinary Ability" by U.S. Department of Justice in 2002. " Can we?
About "When did the ring become "The First British Jewellers' Association Palladium Jewellery
Award winner"?"
Answer — In 2010: I copied the citation from the source
http://www.cijintl.com/Highlights-4816-Joanna%20Angelett.html
"Award-winning “After the Rain” ring in palladium, pearl, and diamonds.
Honours came again in 2010, when her After the Rain ring, from the Royal Garden Collection, received an award from the United Kingdom Palladium 2010 competition sponsored by the British Jewellers’ Association."
About writing the article about Golden Labradorite - it could be amazing! I need to say, that I thought myself to build article about some interesting mineral. I will check on golden labradorite some time later "to see it under the loupe."
I’ll work, as you suggested, on the chronology of the exhibitions, and also I will continue my answers and will express some of my thoughts on the text in my next letter, but now I’m sending to you this one and, in parallel, I’m adding the citations from two new sources to the new version of the text. Great thanks again. All the best. Regards, Chris OxfordChris Oxford (talk) 19:45, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
Part 2
@Chris Oxford: I am really glad that you are starting to think like a true Wikipedian! Yes, it is our "job" to sift through every text looking for just the facts and leave out everything that is not neutral. We can of course pull out the occasional quote when we can cite the exact words in a source, but other than that not. The greatest challenge is to find a language for the article that makes it exciting and good to read while still being neutral. There is nothing that says that we can't use nice language, we just have to choose it carefully. The best articles are first written in a rather strict neutral language, after that someone who is a gifted writer can take a look at the article and rewrite it into a more pleasant text. That is one thing the members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors does.
Please go ahead and add the facts you found to the article and those answers you gave me above. Good to see that you are also a detective now. :) Best,w.carter-Talk 20:10, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter,
Great thanks for your reply! That is so good to hear that I’m starting to be one of the, started to be accepted, members of the Masonic Lodge of Wikipedians.
Now I’m sending you another several answers and couple of thoughts on the following:
In regards of chronological order of exhibitions; in the sources that are currently available, only three exhibitions are mentioned: it is clear, that the first one of them was in the Exhibition and Convention Centre in Jerusalem in 1996, but there are no precise dates for the another two - the Mansion House and Goldsmith Hall in London; all citations, indicate that there were many important exhibitions, but mention just two of them as the most prestigious ones, I guess, but in one citation we can read: "By 2009, her Royal Collection was being exhibited in many prestigious London venues, including the Mansion House and Goldsmith Hall." So, that is possible to put first the Exhibition and Convention Centre in Jerusalem, and then Goldsmith Hall and in the end the Mansion House, as this is the most important exhibition centre in the UK; possibly only artists, who have already proven themselves in several important exhibitions in London , can exhibit in the place of such level, as the Mansion House in London, as that is kind of the "peak".
And what do you think about a section for collections, similar to one you suggested for exhibitions?
Collection of the Holy See, Vatican.
Collection of the Government House in Canberra, Australia.
Collection of the Office of the Governor of New York, USA.
About "the international competition Jerusalem 3000" ?? What kind of competition was that? " I found in the source the following quote: "successfully represented Australia in the International Design Competition Jerusalem 3000." So it is International Design competition. Probably, it was a competition, that has reflected the celebration of the 3000 years of Jerusalem by various kinds of designs (jewellery, sculpture, etc).
Also I found, that the story in the article of Dr Ogden https://issuu.com/jeweller/docs/jeweller_g_j__march_2013_ ( page 14 ) is showing, that Angelett is continuing to work in England, in parallel with modern techniques, in ancient technique of cloisonné enamel, which was used in the Cup of David in Australia. That story is about Holy Kingdom Ring, which Angelett, being already in London, designed for former Governor of Australia Dr Hollingworth. For creation of this ring she conducted researches on "remarkable collection of papal rings, dating back to fourteenth century" in the British Museum in London. Holy Kingdom Ring is the biblical story in metal: "Manifestation of biblical passage which painted a picture of Holy Kingdom with the image of Jesus Christ depicted in ancient technique of polychrome cloisonné enamel.", - as Dr Ogden has written. Does it make sense to add this material to Work in UK section?
I will make in the text all changes, which I mentioned and explained (with the exception of just the very last one), just for completion of these topics at the moment, and if you will consider some of them to be weak or excessive, we will eliminate them.
Great thanks again - really glad!
All the best. Regards, Chris OxfordChris Oxford (talk) 21:40, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Chris Oxford: I'll go through all this tomorrow. Right now it is late here and I'll soon get ready for bed. Good Night for now, sleep well! :) w.carter-Talk 21:49, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Good evening, W.carter,
I have seen the latest version of the text and it looks fantastic now: it sounds solid and consistent. Great thanks for all corrections.
You are completely right, that the draft of the article should be read several times, until it will take shape and will be completely free from the omissions, which by the strange way you can’t see, when you are reading text even for the third time, but which suddenly becoming visible, when you going through it once more.
In the first place, citation 15 doesn't work, and I should find why is that and make it work. (Yes, done - now this is 7). Will find soon where 15 should be. (found! - 15 is 14 now, so it's fine).
Then I deleted the phrase "which was later displayed at several exhibitions." after citation 14, as I wrote it twice and it repeats itself in the end.
Then, I checked the caption under the photo of the Miner’s Ring and found, that in the description of this ring it is said that this ring is made with the use of gold from Western Australia with the newly found mineral from Salsigne Mine (France) in setting. So, I’ll put this phrase instead "newly discovered gold crystals (mineral) from the Salsigne gold mine in France".
Also, today I was on the phone for half an hour, consulting with my good fellows - both professional mineralogists - in regards of the difference of golden labradorite from just labradorite, and they both told me with confidence, that these two definitions represent the same mineral, and the definition "golden" is reflecting just labradorite yellowish colour, which can be also greyish or greenish, because of the small additions of the colorizing agents (oxides of different metals); and labradorite can be totally clear, if there will be absence of the metal oxides in its transparent version; also this mineral can be opaque-milky, or opaque-multicolour, as from the island Labrador, but scientifically it is considered the same mineral. They gave me a good example: it’s like gold — if you will mix it with small amount of Cu it will become pink, if you will add palladium it’ll become white, Fe - greenish, but still it will be gold, just already - coloured gold. "Golden" is just another "poetic" word for yellow; when one of my consultants asked me, where I read such a description of Labradorite, I answered: "In the title of the article about an artist-jeweller", - and he replied: "It says it all". Therefore, it probably makes no sense to stress it in the text by red colour. But if you think, that we should take advise from professional-Wikipedian, we can ask the one with whom once I "won the battle" on Talk Mineralogy (it’s in the very end of the page); he is a very knowledgeable professional, but then we should wait, as he is on the holiday at the moment.
In the very end I included the story about The Holy Ring.
So, what do you think about all these things?
All the best.
Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 18:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
- Hello again Chris, the changes you suggested looks very fine. :) I really like how you are developing as a fact-finding Wikipedian/detective as well as keeping the text brief. The phrase about the Salsigne gold sounds good since it describes more exactly what mineral it is and how it is used. So we should use the form "golden colored labradorite" instead of "golden labradorite". It is ok to use the word golden instead of yellow since it describes the color of the stones best from what I can see in the photos. 'Golden' is a perfectly acceptable encyclopedic word when describing nuances of yellow. Look at the names of the colors at Web colors for example. When I checked the article about labradorite I found the picture of a stone that is similar to those in the cup, just a little darker, so I understand what they mean.
- The article is shaping up. Could you please put the years of the different exhibitions in the list as well? That is how exhibitions are usually listed. Also remember that quotes are written within "citation marks" not in italics. :) All according to WP:MOS. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:45, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, Thank you very much for wonderful reply and very nice smokey labradorite. Tomorrow will check on dates of the exhibitions in all available sources and will tell you what I got. All the best. Regards, Chris OxfordChris Oxford (talk) 20:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
Very good evening, W.carter, To establish when these exhibitions took place, in my opinion, is possible only by obtaining the rest of publications: if we will proceed with the "circumstantial evidence" only, we will not obtain entirely satisfactory result, as this evidence will be based generally on the guesses, and in case of the opponents' questioning, there will be no contramandatum, what will make impossible to defend the point of reliability of the sources. Yes. So, what should be a next step? Today I looked through the text and couldn't find anything, what I could correct or add - great thanks to you, all done just excellent!
All the best.
Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 20:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Chris Oxford: Hi! Sorry but I'm sick so I can't help you right now. Hopefully I'll be better in a couple of days and I'll get back to you then. Best, cart-Talk 20:56, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
Dear W.carter, I am very sorry, that you feel unwell. It must be a cold - I am myself feel completely lost, when I am getting cold or flu, and can't do anything, but it has at least one good side - in such times we can give ourselves a break; I am rightfully treating myself in such occasions with Glogg. Take a good care and get well soon, but, please, take your time - there is no rush, most important thing is to recover completely. All the very best. Regards, Chris Oxford.Chris Oxford (talk) 22:25, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
How to discover new "red link" articles?
@ W.,
any automatical discovering of new articles on previously unworked subjects has a practical problem: The lemma has not been fixed unless the article has been written.
- The lemma of a person can include one first name or more than one given names.
- The names of buildings can be more or less translated, and even in their native language various forms can be current,
- such as DE "Kirche Unser Lieben Frauen (Bremen)" / "de:Liebfrauenkirche (Bremen)" / "Liebfrauenkirche Bremen" / "Commons:Category:Unser Lieben Frauen Kirche" > EN "Liebfrauenkirche (Bremen)" / Our Lady's Church (Bremen)" / "Our Dear Lady's Church, Bremen"/ "Dear Lady's Church, Bremen" / "Church of Our Lady (Bremen)".
- Also names of medieval rulers can be translated or not, such as Jan I / Johannes I / John I.
Therefore, the completion of a gap ought to be detected from the Wikidata set.
Yours'
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Hi, how are you? :) Take a look at the article about Rock-Olga, she was quite a character. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 05:58, 8 September 2016 (UTC)