Stoptoconsider

WikiEdu issue

Hi Stoptoconsider, I hope you are doing well. I'm having some issues with a few of your students in the WRI 101 class and how they are editing two articles, Arabic calligraphy and Arabs in Malta. Some of them have been making, I'm sorry to say, poor quality edits that are both factually and grammatically incorrect, lack sufficient references, and that do not adhere to the MOS. I'm really disheartened to see this because I like the Wiki Edu Foundation program as a whole and I think it's a great way for Wikipedia to get new editors, but I can't support these new edits. I would really encourage the students to use their sandboxes, which, based on the contribution history of the students I've peeked at, they have not been doing. Also, if they are going to make large, 4000+ byte edits, I think it would be helpful if they reviewed those edits with the instructor or the Wiki Edu Foundation staff assigned to the course. I'm happy to help or act as a mentor to any of the students in how they work on these articles because I really want this to be a positive experience for both them and the project! All the best, Kazamzam (talk) 10:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Kazamzam, Thanks so much for reaching out to me and bringing this to my attention. I really appreciate this as I also want this to be a positive experience for the students and want their contributions to improve existing articles, not make them worse. Since they're freshman students, I'm only requiring each student to add a small edit using one source, emphasizing quality not quantity and proper citation. I made them present their proposed source to me and to share what they were planning to add to the article before they started drafting. But it seems something went wrong after that. We're piloting the new live drafting directly on the article option Wiki Edu just launched this semester and when I give the team feedback about this new option, I'll definitely mention that the old sandbox step is better given this experience. Students will be peer reviewing each other articles during the week so they can improve their edits, but please feel free to make whatever edits are appropriate and to delete what needs deleting with an explanation on Talk so students can learn. I also really appreciate your offering to be their mentor! That would be amazing if at all possible. Thanks again. Stoptoconsider (talk) 13:05, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Stoptoconsider - you have very kind students! I've left a few talk page messages for them about their edits. I think something that would be very helpful for them is to, if they're not already doing this, discuss the sources they're using for these articles. In general, I don't think they use citations as often as they should be and there's not a great diversity of sources; this would also be an excellent opportunity to talk about what makes a good source (by wikipedia standards) and how to evaluate sources for bias. But I see many future Wikipedians among them once they become more experienced. Thank you! Kazamzam (talk) 02:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Kazamzam. I really appreciate your taking the time to leave my students talk page messages. It's a great learning opportunity for them and even for me too. And yes they're very kind and some seem eager to become future Wikipedians. I've been stressing the importance of citation etc. as they work on revising their article edits. I also re-shared the manual of style with them. Hopefully their final edits will be up to standard. Stoptoconsider (talk) 09:41, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@Stoptoconsider - thank you for your work! (and please be sure to ping me so I see these messages) I wanted to alert you to the fact that one of the student's edits on Higher education in the Arab world was reverted and put on the Deletion log because of an RD1 copyright violation. I would definitely mention to the students, and possibly to the Wiki Edu team for future trainings, the importance of the copyright policy for Wikipedia. Kazamzam (talk) 13:43, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Kazamzam thanks for alerting me. I actually contacted the student in question as soon as I received that notification, highlighting that there was no excuse for this since we covered the importance of respecting copyright and practiced paraphrasing in class...and the Wikipedia training also covers these. Stoptoconsider (talk) 18:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Stoptoconsider - good morning! My apologies for the repeated messages but I keep seeing the same issues from the same students on the same articles. The two biggest ones have been the really bad formatting of the Higher education in the Arab world [1] (permanent link here) at the very top of the article, zero citations, etc. I mentioned this specifically to the student on the article talk page so I was quite surprised that this issue happen again [2] (original edit with improper formatting from 22 September). Secondly, the Arabs in Malta article has, again, formatting issues and did use citations (good!) but these were from a Wordpress blog and a Medium article [3] which are not reliable sources.

It's really frustrating for me as an editor to see edits like these from students because I have to take the time to review them when I could be doing...anything else! But also because I know it's very discouraging for editors to get edits reverted. I don't want to act like a police officer over your students but I also can't let these changes stand once I notice them. Kazamzam (talk) 12:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@Kazamzam The written feedback/pointers I gave my students earlier this week clearly reminded them of the importance of having consistent citation and formatting that follows the MoS. From the get-go, I clearly told them (and the training also clearly stated) that blogs etc. aren't acceptable or credible sources and that they need to approve sources through me. So this is really frustrating me too...in addition to several other things related to this Wikipedia adventure. Your input and readiness to help has been one of the rare positive things so far.

They're submitting their peer reviews tonight and will be revising their articles during the week. I'll bring this all up in class yet again tomorrow so the revisions don't repeat the same issues yet again. But please revert edits as you see fit as it's a valuable learning experience for them. I actually opted to try this Wikipedia assignment since I wanted my students to experience the difference between writing for an imagined audience and a real audience, to feel the responsibilities of being part of discourse community with real-life consequences, and to gain a deeper understanding of rhetorical awareness and the rhetorical situation and how that impacts writing and research. Stoptoconsider (talk) 15:49, 29 September 2024 (UTC)