User talk:Srnec/Archive, 15 March 2014–28 March 2016

Clarification

Hi. I am just wondering why you feel that an infobox is unnecessary for Raymond IV of Pallars Jussà? Every biography I have worked on has had one and I find them very useful for getting a quick overview of the person in question. I thought the infobox, even with limited information, was quite useful as a reader, especially since the article is not organised in any way.Staranise (talk) 06:26, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

I feel that infoboxes are generally unnecessary. There is certainly no requirement that articles have them, and no consensus on when they are appropriate. There are many editors who believe they are of limited use except in certain cases, and many editors who feel that all articles ought to have them. There is no consensus, but the onus is always on the editor adding to an article to prove the usefulness of his edit.

In biographical articles generally—and in the case of Raymond of Pallars particularly—the infobox contains nothing but genealogical information (parents and children) and data already present in the lede (like vital dates). Why does a list of his folks constitute an "overview of the person in question"? If name and dates is what you're looking for, read the first sentence. Infoboxes distract readers from the actual article and, since notability is not inherited (per our policies), the genealogical information they contain is unrelated to what makes the person notable enough for an article in the first place.

The article is organised, even if it doesn't have headings. The latter can be fixed quite easily (I just did). Srnec (talk) 13:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Catalan culture Challenge

Hello! I've seen that you are one of the main editors of the Abbot Oliba article and I just want to inform you that the article is featured at the the Catalan Culture Challenge, a Wikipedia editing contest in which victory will go to those who start and improve the greatest number of articles about 50 key figures of Catalan culture. It goes from March 16 to April 15. You can take part by creating or expanding articles on these people in your native language (or any other one you speak). It would be lovely to have you on board. :-) Amical Wikimedia --Kippelboy (talk) 07:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

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We've gotten off on the wrong foot

I think we have gotten off on the wrong foot. You said this on the history page of the "Italian governorate of Montenegro" article: "here's how it's done - and since you have read the talk page, your question about sources is disingenuous". Why are you engaging in such attacks against me? I said that multiple claims in the article need sources, I thought that was fine considering that the page has few sources. No I have not read the entirety of the talk page. The issue is that the claims made in the article need references to support them.--74.12.195.248 (talk) 03:08, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

A tag atop the article says, "This article needs additional citations for verification." So why does it need "citation needed" tags throughout? It has one big "citations needed" tag at the top.

In your first edit summary, you wrote, "There are no citations for many of assertions made here. From the talk page, it appears that the users agreed to use this name as some kind of compromise - that does not make it the legal name of this entity. This is not acceptable." Since you are aware of the recent talk page discussion about the title, it is disingenuous to ask in a later edit summary, "What sources say that it was named as shown?"—because the sources were presented on the talk page. Should they be added to the article, and the issue of naming cleard up? Absolutely, but the tag at the top already does the job of a million little tags. And since you read the talk page, you could add the sources used yourself if you were motivated. The sources used in the previous version of the article do not show that "Independent State of Montenegro" was the name of Montenegro under Italian rule. More sources are needed on the issue of naming, but since Montenegro was undoubtedly governed by Italy and was not an independent state, the current title is best. Srnec (talk) 03:17, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014

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March 2014

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Nomination for deletion of Template:French intervention in Mexico infobox

Template:French intervention in Mexico infobox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:15, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

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Median lethal dose

My apologies, I only meant to take out the "commonly due to allergic reactions" in regards to cases of rapid death time (20-30 mins). This was added by a disruptive IP editor before I had the article protected. I've never read a case in which a mamba victim died due to allergic reaction. In anycase, I added the median lethal dose link back into the lead. --Dendro†Naja^{Talk to me!} 21:14, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

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French Somaliland in WWII

Hi Srnec,

Really good job with the re-write at French Somaliland in World War II! I hope you don't mind, but I have tweaked the title to "in" rather than your original "during" to comply with the general trend in similar articles (see the template at the bottom). All the best! Brigade Piron (talk) 09:38, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

I belatedly saw this message after leaving a message on the talk page. Personally, I prefer "during" for the reasons I state there. But thank you! There is still information to add, if I can track it down in reliable sources. There is very little I can find about the "air war" during June 1940 that I believe occurred. Srnec (talk) 13:07, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Titles in titles of articles

Hello Srnec, I've busy in other projects but before that, and whenever I can, I've been moving some of the articles on Portuguese royals/nobles when the title of the article per se is something like, Infante SoandSo, count of... . I think we should have some clear guidelines and not just discussions in a wikiproject. All of these I think should be "standardized". I would opt for dates after the name whenever possible John of Portugal (1300-1350), but if these dates are not confirmed, perhaps something like, John of Portugal, Count of Viseu (I'm inventing the names right now). There is so much confusion with all of these Portuguese nobles and trying to find them is quite difficult. I would definitely delete the nobility/royal titles from the title of the article. What do you think? Regards, --Maragm (talk) 12:55, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

I would also prefer dates, but there seems to be a consensus against them (except where there is no other option). If you move enough articles to dates, you can expect pushback. In this case, however, there might be an argument that dates are the least confusing option. Titles preceding the name (like Infante) should definitely go, but titles (like Count of Viseu) that come after the name, separated by a comma or in parentheses, are acceptable. If there were more than one "John of Portugal, Count of Viseu", then dates would be preferrable or, if there is some other distinguishing mark, then perhaps a parenthetical disambiguator like "John of Portugal (historian)"—obviously, I'm making this up. Srnec (talk) 01:36, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll go over the articles when I have free time and move as per your indications, putting the dates as a last resource. The other thing I forgot to mention is prince/ess vs. infante/a. Most, if not all sources on Spanish/Portuguese royals, call them infantes and I see that some of the Portuguese royals have been called prince/ess. I'm not sure about the more modern ones, but I think all those from the Middle Ages should be called infantes, particularly in the title of the article. --Maragm (talk) 07:04, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014

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Our interaction etc.

It seems we have both been around for years and years, but I think we started to interact only recently. This interaction has been fruitful in some instances, I seem to remember that we collaborated well in Crimea topics when these articles were in crisis.

So I would now want to seek reasonable discussion before we begin to waste effort in editorial disputes over what amounts more to questions of content arrangement than actual content.

I pay you the compliment of treating you as a well-educated, grown up editor. In our recent discussion on Talk:Kingdom of France, I agree completely with the factual points you raise, and I am perfectly willing to be influenced by your opinion. I am in complete agreement with your elaboration on the development of "statehood" here,

If the kingdom of France did not exist in 843—which in one important sense (the concept of France) I am willing to admit—then when did it come to be? Well before 987. Even after the events 887–88 (deposition and death of Charles the Fat), the French kingdom remained in tact: Aquitaine recognised the authority of the same king as Neustria. What might well have seemed likely to be ephemeral in 843 had become permanent within a generation.

This is of course the problem we will have with each and every article on "states", or polilitical entities, or "former countries", or whatever you want to call it, in pre-modern times. And not only pre-modern, as evidenced in the case of Crimea, Kosovo, etc., unlike the mere declaration of statehood (which can be done by any group of people sitting in a room), the "existence" of a state is not something that can be pinned down exactly.

This is not a problem, as long as everyone remains aware of the fuzzy nature of the terms involved in all of this. The problem with Wikipedia is that many involved editors either do not, or else choose to use this fuziness selectively because they have an agenda.

I propose that both you and I have the great benefit of being aware of the nature of the problem, and are not burdened by a political agenda. This means that our collaboration would be of high value to the articles affected. Because of this, I would want to avoid if at all possible that we end up wasting time and our nerves over pointess disputes on presentation.

Which brings me to the "infobox" question. I am the last person to have fixed opinion on infoboxes, and I do think that they are often part of the problem, especially when they suggest clean "cut off dates" for historical periods. But we already know that these cut-off dates are editorial choices. Kingdom of France has an infobox suggesting a "cut off" in 843. We both know that this is arbitrary, but we also know that any other date will be at least as arbitrary, and that if we want to have meaningful coverage on historical periods, there is no way around choosing such cut off dates regardless. These are editorial decisions which should be taken after informed discussion just like the one we had about France.

Now you brought up the template name of "Former Country". Can we please agree that this is a red herring? This is just what the template in question happens to be named internally. The template is in wide use to simply cover meaningful historical periods. As in the articles on the history of the Byzantine Empire, such as Byzantine Empire under the Macedonian dynasty (etc.) Nobody claims that the "Byzantine Empire under the Macedonian dynasty" was a "former country" in the sense that there was no continuity, or a complete replacement of governance or statehood between it and either the Byzantine Empire under the Isaurian dynasty or the Byzantine Empire under the Komnenos dynasty. It is still meaningful to break up the main Byzantine Empire article into such articles on historical periods.

The longer and more complicated the history of a state or empire, the more important it will be to maintain a clean division of articles on such sub-periods. The Byzantine Empire is an excellent example for this, because its history is literally "byzantine". But the same principle applies to any monarchy lasting for centuries on end, including the Kingdom of Portugal and the Kingdom of France, etc. etc. Case in point, in my recent efforts in cleaning up Iberian topics have "discovered" an article on Spain in the 17th century which has been around since 2011, but which has remained completly unlinked, and thus unnoted, in its WP:SS "super-topics" of both Habsburg Spain and History of Spain. Content duplication is one of the serious problems when trying to maintain large topics like "History of $COUNTRY", and a clean division into historical periods which are cleanly linked to one another is a way to reduce it. --dab (𒁳) 11:09, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

This is not a problem, as long as everyone remains aware of the fuzzy nature of the terms involved in all of this. The problem with Wikipedia is that many involved editors either do not, or else choose to use this fuzziness selectively because they have an agenda.
I agree. This is why it can be difficult to adjudicate any disputes by appealing to sources. Academics do not have to worry as much about such matters. But it is more than just some editors who might not understand fuzziness (perhaps because of an agenda)—our readers may not get it either, and they are likely to be less informed or educated than ourselves.
I propose that both you and I have the great benefit of being aware of the nature of the problem, and are not burdened by a political agenda.
I agree. I claim no political agenda, and I don't see on in your edits either.
But we already know that these cut-off dates are editorial choices. Kingdom of France has an infobox suggesting a "cut off" in 843. We both know that this is arbitrary, but we also know that any other date will be at least as arbitrary, and that if we want to have meaningful coverage on historical periods, there is no way around choosing such cut off dates regardless.
I would not agree on the equality of arbitrariness. (I'm not sure "arbitrary" is even the right word here.) The formation of the kingdom of France was a process that is not completely understood nor can be on existing evidence, but we do know quite a bit about what was done (and when) to bring it about. The date of 843 is essentially the earliest date on which the geographical entity that would become known France came into being under one king. I regard that as making an excellent start date—although it does not represent when the notion of "France" came into being. It is also important to note that no subsequent event reversed that of 843: the same division of Europe (roughly) under a succession of monarchs existed down to the revolution.
Now you brought up the template name of "Former Country". Can we please agree that this is a red herring? This is just what the template in question happens to be named internally. The template is in wide use to simply cover meaningful historical periods.
Yes, the template name itself doesn't matter. But it wasn't named arbitarily. I suspect readers will sometimes (often?) be misled into thinking that the dates we have chosen for dividing our coverage represent points of constitutional change.
It is still meaningful to break up the main Byzantine Empire article into such articles on historical periods.
I have no problem with that—but I think the infobox format suggests a kind of succession of constitutions or states, much the same way "First Spanish Republic" and "Third French Republic" do. Why use the same inobox for two very different purposes? Srnec (talk) 01:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

India

Hi, nice to see you again.

There is a consensus to include India in the puppet & client category, as shown by the archive. If you want to revert, please address the arguments there, either here, on the article talk page, or on my talk page. Cheers, ^walk victor falk ^talk 01:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

That short discussion does not at all represent consensus. Look at various recent edit summaries to see that. Srnec (talk) 01:59, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

What recent? You removed "clients & puppets" 3 months ago. ^walk victor falk ^talk 02:59, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

An attempt to list India as a colony was reverted recently by another editor. How does a talk between you and one other editor represent a consensus? Srnec (talk) 13:57, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

WWII infobox

As you have edited that page, you are welcome to participate in a discussion that is taking place at Template_talk:WW2InfoBox#Allies. Thank you. ^walk victor falk ^talk 03:20, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:France_during_World_War_II

Did you check the talk page? ^walk victor falk ^talk 23:32, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

• Not assuming you didn't, just curious about your opinion about people's opinion that there should be an article. ^walk victor falk ^talk 23:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I have no objection to an article. The topic, however, is huge. This is not the way to tackle the job. I would be happy to help in any way I can on improving our coverage of France in World War II and/or by building this article—but I am going to be away for the next couple weeks, so I can't do anything in the immediate future. Srnec (talk) 23:49, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014

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Page numbers

Hi Srnec,

Would you by any chance have some page numbers to add to your cites on French prisoners of war in World War II? I don't have access to the source. All the best! Brigade Piron (talk) 07:01, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

I do not. I do not have access to the PDF or print version of the Rochat article, but I did link to an online version, which can be cited by paragraph (but I don't know how to do that with "sfn" footnotes). The online version is free; the link is in the bibliography. Srnec (talk) 16:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

You've been.....

...reported and I see that you were not notified. Cheers, --Maragm (talk) 12:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

A belated thanks for the notification. It seems it was speedily dealt with. Srnec (talk) 22:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome...next thing, I'll be accused of being your sockpuppet. By the way, I wanted to mention that in the article on Fernando Rodríguez de Castro, Martín is mentioned as a legitimate son, but he was not. You can check the Spanish version where I added as a reference, Menéndez Pidal, which can be checked online. In a donation made in 1241, Pedro Martínez declares that he is the son of Martín Fernández, grandson of Fernán Roiz el Castellano, and donates a property which he had inherited from María Íñiguez, his grandmother and mother of his father Martín. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 06:14, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

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World War 2 info box change

There is a discussion about belligerents order for WWII in the talk page [2] which challenge previous consensus. Based on this discussion, some editors changed the Template:WW2InfoBox. Current change (infobox) are ranking USA above United Kingdom, ranking France above China and adding the leaders of Romania and Hungary into Info box. I thought you should know, as you seem to join the previous discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.172.57 (talk) 00:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Muslim conquests

Hey, Srnec, I was wondering whether you could possibly offer your input on the recent changes - and reverts of those changes - on the Muslim conquests article. Thank you very much for your time. Torontas (talk) 22:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Muslim Conquests

Thanks for the source! JSTOR? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:27, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

The Battle of Yarmuk one, yes. F. M. Donner, The Early Islamic Conquests (Princeton: 1981), 185, states that the main point of Khalid's campaigning in Iraq was the subjugation of the Christian tribes along the Euphrates. It's quite confusing, though, to match sources up on account of the varying transliterations of Arabic place names and the sometimes confused chronology of the primary sources. I can find no mention of Firaz in Donner, but it is clear (just like in that US military publication I linked to) that they are talking about the same action: Khalid's last before moving out of Iraq. Srnec (talk) 00:47, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Very nice. Oddly, Pourshariati states Al-Muthanna was at Firaz(Decline and Fall of the Sasanian Empire, p201-202), not Khalid. Go figure. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Anglo-American bias against the Italian war effort

Hi Srnec,

I suggest you read James Sadkovich and more recent authors. Can I email you a sample of some of his work? Forget about Seca. There is a strong historiography against the Italians. There are clear double standards to the point where their successes are turned into failures, where they are criticized relentlessly in every conceivable way, and their failures are amplified out of all proportion. Now rest assured that if the Italians were actually fighting on the side of the allies, the eventual victors, then there would have been a flood of praise for Italy from historians, where modest victories would be rewritten as great ones, and Italian defeats would have been quietly hushed up or glossed over.

Even when Italy eventually occupy two-thirds of Greece and its islands, even this is seen as a "failure" because their allies, the Germans, helped them out. Using this yard-stick, the British should be measured as failures too because they had the Americans get them out of a hole of their own making in North Africa, and the Russians helping them tying up 90% of the German army and air force. So whatever victories the British may have had, if we use the same yardstick that is used for the Italians, are really questionable indeed.AnnalesSchool (talk) 11:00, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you read James Sadkovich and more recent authors. Can I email you a sample of some of his work? Forget about Seca.
I am familiar with Sadkovich and have access to many of his papers, but none of his books. I've read some of him, and some reviews of his books. If you have something you do not think I have access to, you may email it to me. My email should be enabled.

Forget about Seca.
My concern with the Italian invasion of France article is to get the actual battle fleshed out in detail. I have no reason to believe Seca will get his facts wrong about that.

There is a strong historiography against the Italians.
I completely agree. I think it is mainly a legacy of wartime British propaganda (portraying the Italians as incompetents next to the evil Germans). I can't really blame the British for this, though.

Using this yard-stick, the British should be measured as failures too because they had the Americans get them out of a hole of their own making in North Africa, and the Russians helping them tying up 90% of the German army and air force.
The British often do get overlooked in American historiography (my impression). The British feat in keeping alive in 1940–41 is quite impressive. British defeat Asia in 1941–42 is as bad as anything the Italian suffered. Srnec (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks!

Srnec, Thanks for your help with the cleanups around the House of Savoy, particularly on the references. I'll try to learn from your examples to do it better in the future. Also, thanks for the tip on Garsenda, I've reverted my changes that I had made. 1bandsaw (talk) 20:44, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

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Agnes of Aquitaine

Europaische Stammtafeln has the wife of Ramiro as an illegitimate daughter of the Duke of Aquitaine, not the one who married the count of Thouars. I'd love to see your sources, the article isn't well referenced. Suggest we discuss on talk page. 24.27.2.204 (talk) 23:58, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

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Thai royal and noble titles

You are the last registered user to amend the current article, which, absent a good reason not to, I intend to revert to my version of 14:34, 16 September 2013‎. --Pawyilee (talk) 03:32, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Go ahead. Just restore the hatnote. Srnec (talk) 16:05, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

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Hello. Lets discuss your proposed merger.

Talk:Prisoner in the Vatican#Merge. Clr324 04:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clr324 (talk • contribs)

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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014

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Legislative Assembly double

Hi, there are 2 articles on the same subject Louis XVI and the Legislative Assembly and Legislative Assembly (France). Could it be done something about that? I think you have some knowledge and experience in such things. Definitely it is better to have just one, I think. All the best!--Nivose (talk) 13:12, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

(2nd) Siege of Coria

Hi, Srnec! First I want to thank you for your insightul and extremely detailed articles in medieval Europe. I am traslating your Siege of Coria (1142) article into spanish (here), and I've 2 things to question:

1. When the text refers to "the sucessful 1141 siege"... Could it actually mean 1142? (the year of the siege)
2. According to online sources (Miranda Calvo 120-121) I've handled Coria was taken in 1079 by Alfonso VI before (not after) the reconquista of Toledo in 1085 (to fall afterwards (circa 1110-1113), as the wiki article says after the death of Alfonso in 1109) .

Best regards.--Asqueladd (talk) 23:38, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Three times the article said "1141" when it meant "1142". I checked the sources and it must just be a bad typo. I have corrected all instances to "1142".

You are also right about the date of the first conquest of Coria (1079, at the beginning of the series of conquests culminating with Toledo in 1085, not after). I've corrected this in the article as well. It's always good to have my mistakes caught. Srnec (talk) 11:44, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Notitia de servitio monasteriorum

Your correction to the Savigny monastery seems correct, but why the Schönau one? The Schönau you picked is even further from Bavaria than the one linked. Lesne, the source for the list, places the Schönau in question in the diocese of Ratisbon (Regensburg). Srnec (talk) 17:42, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Good evening,
Yes, you're right, but Schönau is a cistercian one, created in the beginning of the 12^th century. It's why I changed for the other Schönau, witch is benedictine. But you're right when you write that the one I picked isn't in Bavaria. Maybe there's another Schönau I don't know, and therefore I've been wrong. Well, I don't know exactly what to do now... (excuse me for my poor english, I'm French). --Laurent Jerry (talk) 17:55, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014

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Re:correcting Ottoman closure of the straits

I noticed you tweak this on the timeline page of the bugle issue for this month. I feel obliged to notify you that the bulk of that information was lifted from the page Timeline of World War I, so if there was an error in the Bugle page it'll be present on the timeline page as well. Just an FYI. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:38, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

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Foreign involvement in Second Boer War

Srnec, your RFC was not the first time the issue was discussed. Look at some of the sections above it in the talk page. One person suggested putting the info a collapsible section within the infobox. I think that is an excellent compromise. Foreign volunteers are mentioned in numerous war infoboxes throughout Wikipedia. This war even has an entire article devoted to the foreign volunteers in this conflict. The common practice is to list nations which contributed significant volunteers to a conflict. Please allow the info to be added in a collapsible section at least. Toolen (talk) 20:40, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

No, that's not common practice, although it has been done. In this case, we settled the dispute by means of an RFC. The problem is that the info is misleading: those nations were not at war in this conflict. If one volunteer were all it took, then the USA could be said to have entered both world wars well before it actually did. Note that Spain is not in the World War II infobox despite the Blue Division. —Srnec (talk) 20:44, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Royal Road (disambiguation)

I see that you reverted my disambiguation of El Camino Real with the edit summary (not here). I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate? -Niceguyedc ^{Go Huskies!} 23:43, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

It is one of four links to pages that are "Royal Road" in a different language. I didn't want the consistency broken and I didn't want the language "(Spanish)" to come right after the English word "disambiguation". One other page, rue Royale is a dab page. Srnec (talk) 00:25, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Ok. I'll pipe the link through the (disambiguation) redirect instead so it will not break the consistency of the page. This will also prevent others from WP:DPL from changing the link in the future. -Niceguyedc ^{Go Huskies!} 00:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Srnec (talk) 01:12, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

User:Mitsukurina

Hello Srnec. Considering your involvement in the Second Boer War article, I thought you might be interested in this. --Omnipaedista (talk) 10:08, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux

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Chronicle of Fredegar

I struggled with this article as I can read neither Latin nor German. The critical edition by Bruno Krusch (1888) is available on-line but not only the text but also the introduction, comments and annotations are in Latin. The most recent scholarly book on the subject is by Roger Collins (2007) who is at the University of Edinburgh but the book is in German. I would have liked to add a table listing the different manuscripts (as in Anglo-Saxon Chronicle article) but to do this I would need to visit the British Library to access the Collins book. At the moment I'm staying near Avignon and the municipal library (housed in a magnificent medieval building) hasn't a copy. Aa77zz (talk) 07:33, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

instrumental disambiguation

Hello, Srnec. I want to praise your effort to improve the instrumentalism article by creating the disambiguation page in November 2008. I find it useful to distinguish a generic meaning in a general article from specialist usages of the name in the disambiguation article.

Can you now help me improve the general article by evaluating a sample of my proposed revisions? I would appreciate feedback on my talk posts numbers 20 and 21 at instrumentalism. Thanks.TBR-qed (talk) 14:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I'll take a look, but no promises that I'll comment. (Scientific instrumentalism doesn't have an entry at either SEP or IEP.) Srnec (talk) 00:46, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Emanuele Sica (2012), "June 1940: The Italian Army and the Battle of the Alps", Canadian Journal of History/Annales canadiennes d'histoire XLVII: 355–78

Hi, is it possible you could email me a copy of this work to help further develop the Italian invasion of France article? Regards EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 01:11, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Sure. Srnec (talk) 00:46, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Turns out I don't know how to do that ... Srnec (talk) 00:50, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Okay, not to worry. If possible, could you supplement the comment about the inadequate Italian equipment with information from the source in regards to Sica's comments on winter clothing? I feel that this will help explain (eventually and in part) why there were so many frostbite victims.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 02:01, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Only thing I found was the note I added about the lack of tent flies. Srnec (talk) 02:21, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Message at Feudal duties

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Thanks and a question...

Hi Srnec, thanks for fixing the "tweaks" in Pedro de Atarés. Just a quick question. I've been referencing and expanding the articles in es.wiki on Portuguese royalty with books that I've purchased plus good articles I found online, e.g. Alfonso I de Portugal, Sancho I, etc. and thought I'd do it here bit by bit when I have time. Is it necessary to use those boxes for their children, such as the one in Sancho I of Portugal? I don't find them aesthetically pleasing and also more complicated than if I just list the children, something I generally do to protect against undocumented additions. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 16:03, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

No, there's no need to include tables. I agree that they are aesthetically displeasing. Srnec (talk) 21:58, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

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Sancho VII of Navarre

Should this article have a royalty template? Just curious since I usually do not add such things to articles. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:18, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't like infoboxes, so I think it's fine without one. It needs more work in general; not an infobox. Srnec (talk) 00:34, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok. Just noticed it did not have one, that you had edited the article before and I did not know whether or not that was the norm. No worries. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:44, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIV, November 2014

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Nazi Germany's Eastern Front allies Op-ed: TomStar81 on the origins and legacy of trench warfare Timeline: This month in World War I

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Please stop the Edit Warring

Please stop the edit warring on the Axis Powers and WWII Allies pages. You removed a LONG STANDING infobox form the Axis Powers page, without providing any justification. Also, you continue to remove the Infobox from the WWII Allies page which was added to mirror a related article, also this infobox was up for two weeks with other editors making new edits. So, you can't justify its removal as a "revert". At this point you are arbitrarily taking out material you do not like… its that simple. --E-960 (talk) 09:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

These infoboxes are crap. It's that simple. I've opened an RFC. We'll see what others think. Srnec (talk) 17:50, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Your attitude is crap. Why are you so condescending just because you don't like something? "These infoboxes are crap" is not a valid argument for WP. Can't be simpler than that.--E-960 (talk) 19:08, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

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If you're patrolling the Brittany-related pages

Any interest in supporting this proposal: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals/Brittany? or too much overlap with WP:CELTS? — LlywelynII 11:01, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I really just have a bunch of pages on my watchlist from when I tried to upgrade the articles on the Breton rulers of the Merovingian and Carolingian periods some years ago. I wouldn't be much help to a general project, but thanks for asking. Srnec (talk) 02:00, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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Help with template

Hello Srnec, I noticed in the article on the Banu Qasi a box or template on Basque History. In it, there are three titles/houses that I don't think should be there, no articles on them and they are definitely not monarchs or royal families. In addition, I don't even think that template should be there since, as far as I know, the Banu Qasi were not Basque, more likely from what later became the kingdoms of Pamplona and Aragón, and I haven't seen any references indicating confirming this supposed origin. I tried to edit, but was unable and don't know how to go about it. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 07:06, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

I removed the one of the relatively obscure family and the one of the "counts of Lapurdi" (Labourd, Bayonne), since I can't find anything about any such counts. I left the one about the viscounts of Zuberoa (Soule), since they are at least real. I know that the viscounty is considered "Basque" by some, but the names of its viscounts are not Basque at all—if the list on the French Wikipedia can be trusted. Srnec (talk) 00:50, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The real origin of the Banu Qasi is tricky and obscure, due to a historic narrative that possibly themselves created in order to enhance their social and political pedigree. (No "Cassius" is attested on contemporary records, as it is well known) It would be odd to think that a Basque claims a "Gothic" descent, i.e. a lord who held an important position in the Visigothic Kingdom. However, this name, Cassius, is not straight Gothic, but Roman, and somewhat unusual for the naming customs of the late 7th century (cf. Collins). A Roman name would make sense for a Basque of that period, not so much a Gothic one, against whom they fought.

The Basques spoke a language they did not write, as pointed very well by Jose María Lacarra, so let's not fall in empty nominalism, and they even used alternative names for prestige and relations with officials of Germanic and Romance language. The Banu Qasi probably spoke Basque, they held family ties with the Enekos (Iñigos, Eneccones...). Whether that was their exact origin or main language, that's another question. Tudela has very few Basque placenames but in 20 km north and west basic nature placenames bear witness to Basque language. At any rate, for further discussion, this belongs to the Banu Qasi article talk. Iñaki LL (talk) 08:07, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Boso, Margrave of Tuscany

Can I ask why did you revert the edit I made on the page, adding a "Family" section? --Daphoenyx (talk) 21:24, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Why add a heading and bullet points to what was originally just two sentences? It adds a lot of clutter unnecessarily. It's also awkward to make the last bullet point a paragraph long when the first three are mere names. If you have something to add about Boso's other children, please do so. Then, perhaps, it will be worth its own section. Srnec (talk) 23:02, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

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Don't post misinformation

Vichy France declared war on the USSR and USA during WWII. If that's neutrality, you no doubt sufficiently misinterpret our NPOV to make it not apply to you. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

You seriously contend that Vichy France was neutral in WWII? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes. The Vichy gov't was formed after France signed armistices with Germany and Italy. Relations between it and Britain broke down immediately, but there was no such break with most other countries, which continued to recognise Vichy as the legitimate gov't of France until after the Italo-German occupation of southern France and Corsica in November 1942. Technically, France under the Vichy was regime was in a suspended state of war with Germany and Italy—suspended by armistice, awaiting a final peace treaty. It was never actually in a state of war with any other power, although it fought several wars during its brief existence: with Thailand, with Britain in Syria and Madagascar, with the Free French in Gabon and with the Allies in North Africa, not to mention the attacks on Dakar, Gibraltar, Mers-el-Kébir, assistance to Iraq in its war with Britain, and the fighting with Japan in September 1940 and March 1945. At no point did it declare war or have war declared upon it. Nor did it ever adhere to the Tripartite Pact, which is usually regarded as the defining act of the Axis powers. Its situation may be sui generis, but it was not an Axis power and was never treated as one by the Allies. Srnec (talk) 01:25, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

By that logic, Denmark and Norway, too, were neutral as neither declared war on anyone, nor did the Axis declare war on them. As for treatment during and after the war, the Allies certainly fought Vichy France. Even the government of Australia's website mentions this (strange if Vichy France were neutral). After the war, the treatment of various countries as either Axis or client or whatever differed in ways unrelated to their status: the pre-war government of Poland (ostensibly an Ally) was not allowed to govern by an Ally (USSR); the treatment of Italy changed when it changed sides during the war; the treatment of Vichy France was not very different that the Czechoslovak or Yugoslav governments' treatment of territories that claimed independence during the war (most of the leaders of these various places that could be captured were tried and many executed). That Vichy France was a client state of the Axis is pretty straightforward. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

First, your edit made Vichy out to be an Axis power. This isn't really about whether it was at war with anybody. As I said, it fought several wars, but it was never in a state of war with anybody. It was not—and neither regarded itself as, nor was regard by anybody else as—a belligerent. Second, Denmark was not at war with anybody, no. Norway's case is more complicated, but it regarded itself as and was regarded by its Allies and the United Nations—of which it was a founding member—as at war with Germany. (In fact, I believe Norway did clarify that it was at war with Germany after rejecting the German pseudo-ultimatum on 9 April 1940, but I'll have to dig up a reliable source.) Third, while the treatment of Italy, Romania, Finland, Bulgaria and Hungary changed during the war, all five had to sign peace treaties with the United Nations after the war. France never did. Fourth, that Vichy France was, at least after November 1942, a puppet state is not relevant to whether it was an Axis power or at war with any of the United Nations. Slovakia and Croatia are hardly analogous to Vichy France. The former were not recognised sovereign states by most other sovereign states, but Vichy was France until November 1942, after which it was (in the Allies' eyes) effectively merged with the Free French movement, or else ceased to function independently and lost recognition. Anyway... Why do you insist on its being an Axis belligerent? Srnec (talk) 02:17, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

• It was added to "Client states" which it was. You disagree that it was a client state? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

• I disagree that it is appropriate to label it as such in the infobox of the Axis powers page. It is misleading. It was not a client state at all prior to November 1942, after which it was more just an occupied state. The authorities in French North and West Africa continued to be Vichyists after the Allies landed. Vichy laws were on the books in Allied territory until well into 1943. Italy and Germany had no control over most of Vichy's colonies. Srnec (talk) 22:46, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Gonzalo Menéndez

Hello Srnec, I'm writing the article in es.wiki on Gonzalo Menéndez and notice that you have one daughter that I don't have documented (not mentioned by Mattoso or Torres Sevilla), Toda. Not saying it's not correct, just want to know if you have a source for her that I can check and use to add her. Many thanks, --Maragm (talk) 21:02, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Back in 2009 I was using Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands Project at times, and sure enough that turns up a mention. It is a useful work, but not a reliable source for citing facts here. He usually cites his sources, but doesn't in this case. I did find, however, what might have been his source: María Inés Carzolio de Rossi, "La gran propiedad laica gallega en el siglo XI", Cuadernos de historia de España, 65–66 (1981): 59–112. I do not have (easy) access to CHE, so I can't check it myself. If you can, please let me know. Srnec (talk) 00:32, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Ok, I'll look into that and let you know. Many thanks, --Maragm (talk) 05:07, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I see the article but don't find where I can download or view it. I see that in Medlands Toda is in brackets which means that it is an assumption. I don't think it's right since I think that Rodrigo Ordóñez, the supposed husband of a Toda, came later. I have to investigate further but Menendo's son Ramiro married Toda Vela and one of their sons was Ordoño Ramírez, married to Elvira, who would be the father of the Rodrigo Ordóñez married to a Toda. Like I said, I'll continue to investigate and let you know. --Maragm (talk) 06:43, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CV, December 2014

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Hawkeye7 on armoured reconnaissance and German scientists, Nick-D on time travelling historians Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the World War I Christmas truce Timeline: This month in World War I

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Happy Holidays

		Happy Holidays
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free. - Ealdgyth - Talk 15:08, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Ealdgyth. A merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you! Srnec (talk) 16:42, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Pseudo-Apuleius and his Herbarius

Hello Srnec. I have finished merging Herbarium Apuleii Platonici into Pseudo-Apuleius. For finishing all I have no tools and no experience. Thank you very much and best wishes. --Michael Eyl (talk) 16:09, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Velas

Hello Srnec, can you please take a look at this and also the talk page? I have added sourced info on the Basque origin of Velaz and another user keeps reverting, preferring the Visigothic origin, totally undocumented in primary sources, of this lineage. Many thanks, and Happy New Year.--Maragm (talk) 10:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Global account

Hi Srnec! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to ping me with {{ping|DerHexer}}. Cheers, —DerHexer (Talk) 12:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Instrumentalism (disambiguation) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Instrumentalism (disambiguation) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Instrumentalism (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. MadScientistX11 (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Disruption

Having a request close a way you don't want sucks. I understand, it's happened to me all the time. But the way to respond is not to be intentionally disruptive by pushing for a change that you know no one wants and isn't logical or removing examples of a term's use from a disambiguation page when there is proven and obvious use of the term and no POV issue. If you're just trying to make a mess because things didn't go your way, please take a step back and think about it.--Yaksar (let's chat) 19:23, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

You have one single edit since November of last year that is not related to poll tax (or to reverting me on another article). Who's disruptive here? Srnec (talk) 21:38, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

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Woodstock

Since you participated in a similar discussion that recently closed, I thought you should be made aware that a similar move proposal is occurring at Talk:Woodstock#Requested_move_28_December_2014, in case you want to weigh in.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:05, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

New map for the Italian invasion of France article

Hi, our friend Goran is working on a new map for the article. This one gives the big picture, to complement the others that give a zoomed in view of the various areas. It includes the Alpine Line locations, key locations, and the general location of the French and Italian divisions. A second opinion on his first draft, and other comments, is much appreciated: [3]EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 22:45, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CVI, January 2015

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Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

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Hello Srnec. The complaint has been closed with warnings to both parties against any edits at Poll tax that lack prior talk page consensus. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 16:48, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CVII, February 2015

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Re: Kingdom of Italy (476–493)

Would you care to explain this edit of yours? The phenomenon is real, other wikis have articles on it, it's a perfectly legitimate stub. Yet you unilaterally redirected the article elsewhere back in 2011 and now seem to defend your choice - yet there's no sign of any discussion at the talk page. Am I missing something? //Halibutt 23:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Odoacer was rex in Italia, sure, but he was not rex Italiae (king of Italy) in his lifetime—that description is a posthumous one. Scholars debate whether he was king of his Germanic followers (the old consensus) or of everybody within his kingdom (the new consensus, I believe). Odoacer was a Roman official (patricius) of a new and elevated grade (rex). In short, there was no distinct "kingdom of Italy" created in 476, and the state that Odoacer ruled was the same one Theoderic ruled after 493.

The other Wikipedias (not the Italian one!) have articles as stubby and ill-referenced as our own. There is too flimsy a basis for a "former country" type article on a Kingdom of Italy between 476 and 493. Srnec (talk) 01:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

And all of this are perfectly legitimate concerns to be raised at the talk page of the relevant article - *before* you redirect the article once again. Be sure to {{ping}} me if you do (also, ping me the next time you decide to answer anywhere outside of my talk page - you know, that notification bar is there for a reason :) ). As to the title - I'm not happy with it either, but I guess it's a matter of preference. Anyway, there definitely *was* a state in Italy at that time and it definitely deserves an article. Sure, we can argue about the name (I'm all for it!), about whether Theoderic's and Odoaker's domains were the same state or two different states, but the state existed, it was not a power vacuum. Polish Wikipedia (and Polish historiography) usually refer to the states as "Odoacer's Kingdom" and "Theoderic's Kingdom" which seem a tad better to me as they underline the fact that the names are not contemporary or "official", but we'd have to check what's the most-used term in English (WP:UE). //Halibutt 00:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

How does redirecting this title imply anything about a power vacuum? The problem is separating out Odoacer's kingdom from (i) Odoacer himself, (ii) the Roman Empire of which it was a part, and (iii) the "Ostrogothic" kingdom that supplanted it. Since we have articles on these three things, there is no value in a stub with a "former country" infobox and bad title. What is this accomplishing? Srnec (talk) 02:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Gregorian calendar article merge

Can you change the merge templates you added to specify the thread where the change would be discussed, and outline your reasons for wanting the merge? Jc3s5h (talk) 14:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

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Afterlehen

Hi Srnec, thanks for the clarification of your change at the above article. "Absurd" was a little harsh. I translated the article from German Wikipedia and simply brought the references across. I had never heard of Ganshof, still less that he had written in English as well as German - quite clever as he was a Belgian! However, the problem is that the book you have cited doesn't mention the word Afterlehen, so is no help to readers of the article. So I'm afraid I've had to replace the German source which does. If you're not happy with that, please discuss it at the talk page. Thanks. --Bermicourt (talk) 08:55, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Rif War

Hi,

I reverted you on Rif War, since you made an edit that deleted a fact but still was marked as "minor". Please feel free to reapply if this wasn't a mistake. Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 14:08, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Cuba (WWII Allies)

Fair enough, regarding Cuba... but perhaps there should be a small subsection about the Cuban contributions against German U-boats. The topic looks unfinished when we have a flag icon, but no text to back it up. If you have a bit of data on this subject please throw in a small statement. --E-960 (talk) 06:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere client states

Hello snerc, I would like to clarify your back edits of Japanese client states in the Axis powers page. The scope of the page is for 'countries' including puppet/client states that declared war on the United States and the Allies during World War II. In the waning days of the Second World War Japan created several states from European colonial possessions such as the State of Burma from British India and the Kingdom of Laos, the Kingdom of Kampuchea (Cambodia) and the Vietnamese Empire from French Indochina in order to gain popular local support against the fears of re-colonization. All of these puppet states declared war on the United States although with very limited international recognition of their supposed sovereignty. The description of their involvement and history are listed on the very page you purport to believe they do not belong on under Japanese client states detailing their involvement with Japan politically. Many of these states collaborated with Japanese forces and were active in detaining and imprisoning Allied Colonial officials. Given this, I do not think your argument that "(Kampuchea, Laos and Vietnam did not take part in the war whatever they were)" holds water while leaving other such minor client states such as the State of Burma when the very page you argue they are not part of, are listed in detail further down the very same page. Semi-Lobster (talk) 17:51, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

No, they did not declare war on the United States. Do you have a source for that claim? Srnec (talk) 18:23, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

You are correct that war was not directly declared on the United States by Japan's puppet states in South East Asia, although membership in Japan's Co-prosperity Field was a form of alliance with Japan politically and local Japanese-trained militia were raised by puppet states to defend against invasion. In several specific instances Empire of Vietnam was under constant hostility with the US supported Việt Minh which certainly signifies a level of warfare ranging from disobedience to widespread civil hysteria such as the killing of French nationals in 1945. The case in Cambodia is best explained in the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies Vol. 17, No. 1 (Mar., 1986), pp. 80-93, where, while not in direct conflict with the Western Allies, viewed their relationship with Japan as an 'alliance' and the formation of militia called 'green shirts' trained by the Japanese to fight on their behalf. The period in the last months of World War II were very fluid, and while attempts to appear as full fledged nations, the period generally lacks an essential 'formality' compared to contemporary Western history that allows specific dates and government policy to be written 'on the dot' as it were. In hindsight my assertion that Japan's South East Asian puppets as complete belligerents may have seemed 'bombastic' but my inclusion of these states I think is comparable to the Hellenic State or Second Philippine Republic, where conflict was generally internally directed at Allied countries rather than something more overt such as Axis minor participation on the Eastern Front or the Thai Invasion of the Burmese Shan States. Semi-Lobster (talk) 19:39, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

The Indochinese puppet states were created in March 1945. The Manchurian, Mongolian, Philippine and Burmese puppet states were created no later than 1942. What's more, the Burmese state changed sides and fought against the Japanese. It could with as much justification be listed as an Allied affiliate. The placing of puppet states in the infobox is misleading in most cases and I'd happily removed all of them. Croatia, Slovakia and Manchukuo have the strongest claims to be included. Srnec (talk) 20:15, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello snerc, sorry about the delay in response. You are quite right, although direct material and logistical support is incredibly important, and these Japanese puppet states offered those, it is still not the same as a direct, exterior use of military force, compared to say, the German puppet of Slovakia or Croatia. Perhaps, a second list within the article, outside the info-box would be a better place for a complete list of Axis affiliates and leave the main article for actual members of the Axis, which leaves out all puppets? Or something similar? Semi-Lobster (talk) 15:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CVIII, March 2015

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Mandrake move

You recently participated in a move request discussion at Talk:Mandrake (plant). I have posted a follow-up request at Talk:Mandragora officinarum if you are interested in participating. —  AjaxSmack  00:22, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

War again

Hello Srnec, We have the user PedroPVZ moving articles again without trying to reach a consensus. I already asked Bgwhite to move Hermenegildo back to the original name (I tried, but made a mistake and can't rename him). Many thanks, --Maragm (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Could you also fix (I saw you fixed Menendo) Hermenegildo Gutiérres? He moved Hermenegildo Gutiérrez to Hermenegildo Guterres and I tried to fix it but mispelled Gutiérrez (s at the end instead of z). If not, I'll wait for Bgwhite --Maragm (talk) 21:23, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

No, I think we need an admin for that. You could put it up as uncontroversial at WP:RM and take the message off Bgwhite's talk page if you want. I don't know what would be quicker. Srnec (talk) 21:32, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I'll wait for Bgwhite. Just wish Pedro would spend more time referencing articles than making these moves. --Maragm (talk) 21:38, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

I reported PedroPVZ's behavior and editing after wasting a lot of time yesterday on these reverts and moves, and after his editing in Ordoño II of León. Had he created the articles on Hermenegildo Gutiérrez or Menendo González with the "Portuguese" names, I would not have complained as long as he had inserted the Spanish spelling in the lede, but in these two cases in particular, those moves were his only contributions to those articles while he does not bother to add refeferences to the hundreds of articles on Portuguese nobles or royalty lacking any sources or refs. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 08:55, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the fix on Mendo. Going over Sánchez Candeira's work I remembered that I wanted to propose something. Both this author and Gonzalo Mtz Díez, are of the opinion that Fernando was not king of Castile. You can see what Mtz Díez says in Fernando's article in es.wiki where I added a direct quote, and I could furnish another quote from S. Candeira. I see that this was discussed already and I really believe that the article should be moved and exclude Castile from his title. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 22:31, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree that Castile did not emerge as a distinct kingdom until Ferdinand's division of the realm in 1065. (In fact, I see that I made this point in an edit summary of 16 April 2011‎.) In fact, I was just thinking the other day that we ought to reverse the order of León and Castile in the title of Sancho II of León and Castile. So perhaps we should move both articles. Srnec (talk) 23:43, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Agree that Castile should precede León in Sancho II. Re Ferdinand, I would omit Castile and just mention León.--Maragm (talk) 00:01, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting. Not surprising from somebody capable of writing this gobbledygook including Don Vela de Aragón, long exiled from any serious work by reputable historians together with “Lope López de Aualos señor de Vizcaya (???), Conde de Alaba, señor del lugar de Aualos, hijo del Infante don Lope Vela, y de la Condessa doña Juliana de Aualos, fundadores de la casa de Ayala” and other similar absurdities. If he is so intent on including the Visigothic origin, pehaps he can be persuaded to translate into english his article on the Vela family where even those with Vela as a first name or patronymic are all lumped together as if they were members of the same family.--Maragm (talk) 08:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

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Possibly unfree File:Obolus of Bernard William.jpg

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WMD

Hello, further to your edit at the article World War I, please discuss the WMD issue on the talk page, so we can build a consensus and improve the article. Thank you IQ125 (talk) 16:39, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015

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Salve, amice

I see you're a fellow medievalist. Do you know where I can read translated English copies and screenshots of medieval manuscripts for free? I already am reading the Nuremberg Chronicle but Early Middle Ages from the 400s to 900s AD interests me the most.--Sigehelmus (talk) 22:46, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

I can't think of one, no. There are English translations for many texts scattered all over the web, and a lot of Latin texts, for that time period. But I am not aware of any website that combines English translations with scans of manuscripts. For a start, on a later period, check out Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Crusades_task_force#Resources. —Srnec (talk) 01:18, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you; if I find any links like I'm looking for would you be interested?--Sigehelmus (talk) 16:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Infobox for Habsburg Netherlands

I saw you removed a "misleading" infobox for the article Habsburg Netherlands, but the infobox is a very helpful tool when browsing through various historical countries. I would request you create a new infobox that removes the misleading information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.96.140 (talk) 00:53, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015

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AfD: Pantacles of Athens has closed

The Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pantacles of Athens discussion has closed as a consensus "merge." The closing admin, SamWalton, identified four of the 40 articles for further talk page discussion whether they should be merged to the list or maintained as stand-alone articles: Talk:Dandes of Argos, Talk:Philinus of Cos (athlete), Talk:Oebotas of Dyme and Talk:Eurybus of Athens. Your input is requested on those article talk pages. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:18, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Elviras

Hello Srnec, thanks for the fix on the disambiguation page on Elvira Menéndez. I only decided to fix the article on the Elvira who died in 1022 after a user changed her year of death, confusing her with the previous Elvira and then decided to create the short article on the latter one, who died in 921. I'm about to tackle Elvira of Castile, Queen of León. I'm trying to find a source that said that she retired and became a nun since this is mentioned in the article, without any reference, and does not seem logical since it says that she shared the regency with count Menendo González until 1007 who died in 1008. In the article on Menendo, it says that Menendo was succeeded as regent by Elvira, with a reference by Martínez Díez (2007). I'm not sure, and am looking into it, if both shared the regency and then she was regent alone after Menendo's death, although one of the sources I'm checking, Fernández del Pozo, says that after Menendo's death, Alfonso, who would have been about 14 years old, reigned on his own. References 23 and 24 in the article on Menendo is Martínez Díez (2007), but that work is not mentioned previously in the notes (although you have his work on Condado de Castilla (2005). Can you tell me the title of that work? Also, would you mind if later, I separate the notes in the article into notes, references and bibliography? Regards, --Maragm (talk) 04:56, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

The uncited book is Sancho III el Mayor. I've corrected the footnotes. I don't mind if you want to divide the notes into different sections. I also corrected the fact, since Martínez Díez does not say what I cited him as saying. He says explicitly that [a] la muerte ... del conde gallego ... se había iniciado, a los catorce años, la mayoría de edad del joven rey leonés in 1008. He cites a document from 1012 in which Alfonso calls the count of Castile his adiutor, but nothing about Elvira being regent. (I think I jumped to a conclusion about the significance of adiutor and its connexion to Elvira, who was still at court.) I checked the other citation to Martínez Díez (2007) and it is correct. He says, about Elvira, that she retired to Oviedo and died in 1017, and that Alfonso's rupture with Sancho of Castile circa 1014 was connected with (coincidió o más bien dio lugar a) her retirement. Roger Collins, Caliphs and Kings: Spain, 796–1031 (Wiley-Blackwell, 2014), p. 195, says that Elvira was regent in 1003 and sent troops to help the Umayyads defeat the Catalans at the battle of Albesa. According to pp. 161–2, shortly after this she ceases to appear at court, her position having been usurped by Alfonso's military tutor, Menendo. He goes on to note that a compromise was reached in 1007 and that Elvira appeared at court thereafter until her death. So Collins says by implication what Martínez Díez does not. Srnec (talk) 23:59, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

I would move the page Elvira of Castile, Queen of León to a simpler title—Elvira García or Elvira Garcés, perhaps. I like disambiguating with dates, as you did with the other Elviras. Srnec (talk) 00:03, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

I've got Mtz Díez's work on Sancho el Mayor and will use it in Elvira. I also thought about moving her to Elvira García (García for Castilians, Garcés mostly for the Navarrese), but saw that Agricolae had moved it in March 2008 to Elvira García of Castile and then in Oct 2009 she was moved to her present name. I also prefer using Garcia since this is how most scholars mention her. So it would either be, Elvira García, Queen of León, or Elvira García (died 1017)...or the name Agricolae had given her, but then I think I have to ask an admin to move it since the name was already used. Or are you able to do it? BTW, I have a recent work by Salazar y Acha which I can scan and forward on several "misteries" regarding the Astur-Leonese, that gives some pretty convincing arguments on Vermudo's II illegitimacy and his possible Galician maternal line.Regards, --Maragm (talk) 06:20, 29 May 2015 (UTC) pd..I'll divide the refs, notes, and refs in Gonzalo when I finish with Elvira.

Ingelheim am Rhein

Hello Srnec, I corrected in above the dates of population. What did I wrong because that's not seeing? Regards -- Sweepy (talk) 08:57, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your question. I reverted one of your edits to Ingelger because we don't usually link dates here. Srnec (talk) 15:21, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I mean my latest revisions at the population 24.283 (31. Dez. 2013). This is not shown in the info-box. Regards -- Sweepy (talk) 06:46, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015

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What do you have against ancestry charts

Genuinely curious. I think they're interesting in illuminating family relationships among rulers. They don't as I can tell detract from the article in anyway, especially considering they're collapsed by default. Deleting them serves no purpose. --Jfruh (talk) 22:13, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

• I have nothing at all against family trees, which is basically what an ancestry chart is. But a family tree corresponds to a family. Why multiply what is basically the same chart over many pages? A wikilink to a page on the family, with a tree at that page, is the way to go. Charles the Fat and Carloman of Bavaria have the exact same chart. Does it need to be in both articles? Especially since it is almost the same as those for Louis the German and Arnulf of Carinthia, etc.
• I don't think they illuminate family relationships, since their cutoff points are arbitrary. The text of the article should highlight the relationships that are relevant. Mom's dad's mom is not always relevant, or its relevance is rarely apparent. The text can explain when/if it's relevant. Srnec (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Kingdom of Hejaz and Sultanate of Nejd

Hello! I noticed you got rid of the article for Kingdom of Hejaz and Sultanate of Nejd, with the reasoning that it was only a union of two countries. Actually the relationship between the Hejaz and Nejd was no different after 1927 (when it became the Kingdom of Hejaz and Nejd) than it was before, except that Nejd was upgraded from a sultanate to a kingdom. The two states did not share a single constitution and administration from 1926 (the Saudi conquest of the Kingdom of Hejaz) until their formal unification into Saudi Arabia in 1932. But their separateness was complicated by the fact that they shared coinage, post, and, most importantly, a single Foreign Office. The British Government actually considered Hejaz-Nejd as two separate states, part of a personal union, from 1926 all the way until 1930, when they changed their stance and decided that the international position of the two states was more like a "real union" ([4]). Regardless of whether we consider Hejaz and Nejd as a personal union or "real union" - if Kingdom of Hejaz and Nejd gets its own article, so should Kingdom of Hejaz and Sultanate of Nejd. Otherwise the period of 1926-1927 is ignored. --Axiom292 (talk) 08:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I think it wiser to simply include the entire period of union from 1925/6 to 1932 in a single article and clarify there how this union functioned and how it changed before the formal creation of Saudi Arabia. The current title—"Kingdom of Hejaz and Nejd"—seems entirely appropriate for such an article to me, since both Hejaz and Nejd were kingdoms for most of that period, but a more neutral title (say, "Union of Hejaz and Nejd") would be fine. In any case, the artilces on the Kingdom of the Hejaz and the Sultanate of Nejd ought to make clear that these states did not abruptly cease to be in 1926. Srnec (talk) 19:06, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree that the kingdom-sultanate period of 1926-1927 and "dual kingdom" period of 1927-1932 could be included in a single article. The existing article "Kingdom of Hejaz and Nejd" would be fine but should make note in the lead of the change in name. Regarding the life span of the Kingdom of Hejaz: The state after 1926 can not definitely be said to be the same international entity that existed prior to 1926. Again, this source is the best I can find that details the problem: [5]. I think it would be better to treat it as a new state after 1926, as the British Government eventually decided. --Axiom292 (talk) 07:20, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Ponce de Minerva and Juan Ponce de León

Hello Srnec, could you take a at this message I left. User is the same as the author of a book on the ancestry of Juan Ponce de León, and while all modern historians have Ponce Giraldo de Cabrera as the ancestor of the Ponce de León, he has followed Salazar y Mendoza who erroneously had Ponce de Minerva as the ancestor of this lineage. I have not looked into the conquistador's ancestry, but I am certain, based on all the secondary and primary works that I have checked that Ponce de Minerva had nothing to do with the Ponce de León. The entire article is sourced with primary sources which have been misrepresented and since the user has written a book, is trying to push his theory based on Salazar y Mendoza (16th-17th century). Regards, --Maragm (talk) 16:26, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book review: Recent external reviews Review essay: Nick-D on sourcing articles about bombing a battleship Op-ed: TomStar81 on the role of nursing in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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Duchy of Benevento

Uh, why doesn't it need an infobox? Infoboxed are useful for countries because they ppresent a significant amount of information without having to scour the entire article. Not really sure why you would revert that... Themane2 (talk) 02:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia. Its articles are meant to be read ("scoured"). The infobox competes with the article (as you yourself seem aware) and does not make it better. It also attracts misleading information, especially in the case of old polities that lasted for centuries and changed a lot over time. There is, for example, no evidence that Lombardic was ever spoken in Benevento (although we might assume it); it is not really right to call the early Romance that was spoken "Italian"; and Greek was rarely (if at all) spoken in the principality after the Byzantine campaigns of the late 9th century. The "official" language, such as it was, was Latin; the common language was the vernacular form of the same, "Italo-Romance" as it comes to be called. Srnec (talk) 02:25, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Stuff like this can't be fought article after artcile. You need to get a braod consensus. There's no reason why this one particular state shouldn't have a infobox, while other states do. We need to be consistent. For now, let's keep it like it is. I'll ask for a broader consensus on different talk pages. Themane2 (talk) 16:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

You're wrong. Per WP:INFOBOXUSE, part of the Manual of Style, a core guideline: "The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article. Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." There is no consensus to have an infobox at Duchy of Benevento and the article is stable and has been for a long time without one. Per WP:BRD, it should remain that way. You were bold and you were reverted. Please revert yourself and open a discussion on the talk page. Srnec (talk) 19:50, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

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Move-warring at Chola incident

You are clearly involved in a WP:MOVEWAR at Chola incident (or Chola War?). Some consensus on the article's title needs to be established, preferably at Talk:Chola incident. Dl2000 (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

There is no discussion to be had until a citation for "Chola War" in a reliable (English) source appears. With a single source provided (I can't yet find one), I'd happily move the article myself. Srnec (talk) 03:53, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

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Basis for removing infobox

Hello. What is the basis for removing the former country infobox from Kingdom of Viguera? Perhaps there is some rule I'm not familiar with, but if that's the case I would like to read it myself, so you could you please link me the talk page or rule, in case I missed it? Thanks in advance.--Metroxed (talk) 18:42, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Per WP:INFOBOXUSE, part of the Manual of Style, a core guideline: "The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article. Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." Per WP:BRD, you made a bold edit and I reverted it, so if you want to discuss it and see if we can reach consensus, go ahead and make your case (preferably at Talk:Kingdom of Viguera). There is an essay that encapsulates some of my views on why infoboxes are often undesirable at Wikipedia:Disinfoboxes. —Srnec (talk) 23:14, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D on the Second Schleswig War Interview: Featured picture participants Op-ed: TomStar81 on Indian nationalism during World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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Hiram II

Is a lead optional? Sections? --Osplace 02:26, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

What kind of sections do you think this short article on an obscure 8th-century BC king needs? Srnec (talk) 20:35, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

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Kingdom of Germany

Hey Srnec - I just came upon the most recent iteration of the argument over Kingdom of Germany. I'm astonished that this argument is still going on, and that the opponents are still doing the same tortured bullshit they did, what, three years ago? Anyway, I just wanted to commend you for continuing to do yeoman's work over there. john k (talk) 13:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Hopefully one day I'll get around to actually working on the article. Srnec (talk) 02:14, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

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Kingdom of Germany

Hello Srnec, I read your comment to above reverting. Where can anybody read this in the text? Please complete this, because in all others you can see that it is a literally text. Thanks and regards -- Sweepy (talk) 06:05, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

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Rodrigo Velázquez

Hello Srnec, I see in the article on Rodrigo Velázquez, that his father was a certain Velasco. I came across the following document in Celanova: 950, Oct 8 (Celanova, pp. 57-59, doc. 88): En la delimitación de términos entre las vilas de Santa María de Verín, Abedes, Regaulfus, y Saquetina, llevada a cabo por orden de Suario y Rodrigo Gutiérrez, a consecuencia de la contienda sostenida por los habitantes de los lugares citados, resuelta a favor de la vila de Sta. María. ".... litigantium causa orta fuit comptemptio pro termins inter habitantes in vulla Sancta Maria et villa de Abdes, Regaulfus et Saquetina, id est: de uilla Sancta María, Trudildi, que fuet uxor Uelasco Ruderiz..." This would make him Velasco Rodríguez who was already dead by 950. If you want to use it as a ref, the source is:Sáez, Emilio; Sáez, Carlos (2000). Colección diplomática del Monasterio de Celanova (842-1230). Vol. II (943-988). Alcalá de Henares: Servicio de Publicaciones, Universidad de Alcalá. ISBN 84-8138-414-3. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 20:58, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you have access to Cuadernos de estudios gallegos 1964? Judging from Google Books snippets, that volume has an article with more detailed information on Velasco and Trudilde. I haven't even yet found a table of contents for that volume online to know what the article's title is. Srnec (talk) 21:49, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

No, I don't have it but will see if I can get a hold of it. For other volumes, you can check here (more recent ones) and the shaded ones are available online. I've been looking at these gallegos because I have a hunch that that Nuño Velázquez, married to Fronilde Sánchez, might have something to do with the family of Rodrigo Velázquez. On Fronilde, Medlands says that there is no documentary proof sustaining her filiation as the daughter of Sancho Ordóñez (count) and Onneca Ovéquiz. Yet I found two charters that would indicate that she was Sancho's daughter: 1104, junio 13 (Sahagún, doc. 1108, pp 463-464): El conde Nuño con su mujer Fronilde Sánchez y sus hijos Alonso, Menendo, Sancho y Elvira, hacen donación por la salvación de su alma y como expiación por su actuación contra el monasterio al prenderle fuego en respuesta a la muerte de su sobrino Velasco Pérez a manos de "francigene", la heredad que tenía por parte de su esposa en Villagrá (Villa Grati). Confirman donación: Martino Flainz, comes; Froila Diaz comes; Fernán Peláez, (that's the charter also quoted to rebut the filiation of Gómez Núñez de Pombeiro as the brother of Alfonso Núñez, Sancho N., etc.).... In december of that same year, her brother Oveco donated the part he had inherited from his parents in Villa Grati. You can download the index of Sahagún charters (with a short description of the charters) here.

Going back to Rodrigo V., Margarita Torres in her book Linajes p. 315, note 1608 mentions bishop Pelayo as the son of his second wife, Onega, though no proof is given.

Gonzalo Mtz Díez, p. 439, Vol. I of his book on the Condado de Castilla, talking about the embassies to the court in Córdoba (year 968, when they sought protection against the Vikings who were raiding Galicia) mentions the following on Trudilde: "La primera de estas embajadas fue la conducida por la madre del conde gallego Rodrigo Velázquez, y que narra Ibn Jaldun":

"...vino (a verle) la madre de Rodrigo hijo de Velázquez (Luzrik ibn Bilakis), el conde cuyos dominios se hallaban en las cercanías de Galicia y que era el mayor de los condes (de esa región). Al-Hakam envió representantes suyos que se adelantaran para recibirla con una fiesta que marcó otro día memorable, le concedió su amistad, la ayudó, y le acordó la paz a su hijo como ella anhelaba y solicitó. Entrégole además, una sumna de dinero para repartirla entre los integrantes de su comitiva, siendo conducida en una mula ágil provista de silla y brida pesadamente tachonada de oro y cubierta con un manto de seda ornamentada. Concurrió de nuevo la señora a la Corte a fin de despedirse, entregándole (al-Hakam) nuevos obsequios para su viaje, hecho lo cual partió de vuelta". (Ibn Jaldún, Kitab al-Ibar, traducción Machado (1968).

Will let you know if I find more useful info on Trudilde. --Maragm (talk) 08:22, 20 September 2015 (UTC) pd... the cite book templates for the works I mentioned above are here, and if you need help in translating the quote on Trudilde, let me know.--Maragm (talk) 09:01, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors, coordinator elections have begun Articles: Abbasids to a Yugoslav monitor Book reviews: Economics of warfare, Japan, and light horse Op-ed: We can (not) advance Timeline: This month in World War I

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Your thoughts

What is your perspective on citation overkill like here? --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, the 19th-century sources can certainly go. Srnec (talk) 21:19, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Oddly, I was ignored when I mentioned that issue(19th-century sources). I have already started a discussion on the talk page if you would like to share your perspective regarding any of the sources. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:07, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

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Fernando Yáñez

Hello Srnec, re Fernando Yáñez, if you check the work by Barón Faraldo (in the bibliography of Raymond of Burgundy), p. 566, he mentions Juan Ramírez who was the vicarius of Count Raymond. In another work that I have

Fernández Rodríguez, Manuel (2004). Toronium: Aproximación a la Historia de una Tierra Medieval: Galicia y Portugal en la Edad Media (in Spanish). Madrid: Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas. ISBN 84-00082613. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help),

in p. 93, he mentions that Fernando was the son of this Juan Ramírez. I also think that besides Pelayo Curvo, Fernando was the father of a María Fernández who on 4 Sept. 1188 made a donation to the Order of San Juan de Jerusalén (Malta). In this document, María names her father as Fernandianez (typical contraction for Fernando Eanes/Yáñez) de Montoro when she donates her inheritance in Cameselle, S. Félix and S. Pedro de Felgueiras. The cartulary is available online and the document is #45, pp 147-48:

García Tato, Isidro (2004). Las encomiendas gallegas de la Orden Militar de San Juan de Jerusalén. Estudio y edition documental (in Spanish). Vol. Vol. I. Santiago de Compostela: CSIC, Xunta de Galicia,Instituto de Estudios Gallegos «Padre Sarmiento». ISBN 8400082508. {{cite book}}: |volume= has extra text (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help) Regards, --Maragm (talk) 16:55, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Gracias. I've added the info to Fernando Yáñez. Thanks also for pointing me to Las encomiendas. I think the bit about María borders on OR, but went ahead and included it with a "may", since "Fernandianez de Montoro" seems pretty clear in the context of a daughter's grant in 1188. Srnec (talk) 22:06, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

De nada! I also was able to sort out Arias Pérez thanks to your article. Since Arias Pérez seems to have evaporated after the funeral of his mother-in-law Mayor, I think the last date should be changed to 1129 (instead of 1128). Even though it is OR, you can check the charter from the Mon. de Ferreira de Pallares (Pdf 2, p. 296, doc. 12) where Alfonso VII makes a grant to the monastery and to “vobis comitisse domne Maiori cognomento Gunterode Ruderici pro uestre fideli seruitio”, which means that she was still alive in January 1129. In the Tumbo Viejo de Lugo there is another document, although it must be false, dated 1 July 1130 of a donation made to the church of Lugo by Mayor with the consent of her husband Pedro, but again, it must be false since Pedro was already dead by that date. The Tumbo was published in Mindonienses, num. 27 which you can download, if you don't have it, here. Arias Pérez's wife, Ilduara Pérez (de Traba) married a second time to Alfonso Viegas de Ribadouro el Mozo, according to Mattoso (A nobreza medieval portuguesa p. 296, and M. Torres Sevilla, Linajes Nobiliarios en León y Castilla, p. 325 - both in "my library") since at least 1143 the year in which both made a donation to the Templars which means that Arias must have died between 1129 and 1143 (or earlier). --Maragm (talk) 08:12, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Went over Andrés de S. Victor, and only a couple of minor changes (changed "raro" for "exceptional" since I think the connotation of the former is "weird"), but then again, I translate more into English since it is almost my mother tongue. I'm going to be expanding the article I wrote on Osorio Martínez in es.wiki adding another source and another possible son based on this excellent article by a very good young historian, Inés Calderón Medina. If her hypothesis is correct, this would clarify the origin of the Portuguese Cabreiras e Ribeiras. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 06:16, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

English-language biographies about Otto I?

Hello Srnec, as you seem really knowledgeable about historical topics, maybe you could recommend modern English-language literature about the Ottonians, especially about Otto I, please? Aside from German historians like Althoff, Beck, Beumann etc., I have read Reuter's "Germany in the Early Middle Ages" and Schutz' "The Medieval Empire in Central Europe". Several other English-language books cover that period in a wider context, but only mention biographical information in relatively short chapters - I am looking for a book or two, that focus on such biographical information (similar to Becher's recent biography about Otto I in German). Occasionally working to improve Otto I, I'd really like to add some more modern English-language sources. Kingdom of Germany and other articles contain lists of English literature, but I am unsure which of them contain a useful amount of biographical information. Any book tips in that topic area would be greatly appreciated. Best regards. GermanJoe (talk) 14:08, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Bernhardt's Itinerant Kingship and Leyser's Rulership and Conflict, both cited at KoG, probably provide some useful information. Bernhardt is indebted to the work of Eckhard Müller-Mertens, whose Die Reichsstruktur im Spiegel der Herrschaftspraxis Ottos des Großen might interest you. (Unfortunately, the only piece of Müller-Mertens' work that's been translated, to my knowledge, is the chapter he wrote for the New Cambridge Medieval History.) Althoff's bio of Otto III has been translated into English. I can also point you to David Bachrach's Warfare in Tenth-Century Germany (2012), but I haven't read it, so I don't know what it has by way of details on Otto I's reign. (He has also publish articles on the military of the reigns of Henry I and Otto I in Early Medieval Europe.) Srnec (talk) 19:31, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks for your detailed suggestions, Srnec. Bernhardt and Leyser sound like some good choices, and I'll definitely keep the others in mind for a later time. GermanJoe (talk) 21:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book review: Anotherclown and Sturmvogel 66 on war in the air and at sea Review essay: Auntieruth55 on the French Revolutionary Wars Op-ed: TomStar81 on the entry of Bulgaria in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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Images for Menendo González

Hello Srnec, I found two images in commons that you could use to illustrate the article: one is the ivory pyxis and the other one is the chalice. You could then erase the notes on where to view them. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 17:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I've added the chalice, but is that the correct pyxis? Prado-Vilar seems to show a different one. Srnec (talk) 18:13, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Not sure, I'll take a look. Meanwhile, check page 196 on Menendo's death:

• Durany Castrillo, Mercedes (2004). "El obispado de Astorga en el primer tercio del siglo XI: de Jimeno a Sampiro". Semata: Ciencias sociais e humanidades (in Spanish) (15). Santiago de Compostela: University of Santiago de Compostela: 187–222. ISSN 1137-9669. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |coauthor= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) --Maragm (talk) 18:44, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Just looked at the pyxis...you're right. The Commons image is the one on p. 31.--Maragm (talk) 18:46, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Just came across...

...this category What do you suggest? I would erase it and remove it from the articles categorized as such. I think Crown of Aragon is more than sufficient except for the early Galíndez and Aznares, etc. who lived before Aragon was a kingdom. And the article on the legendary, undocumented and fictitious Velasgutto de Ayala I see that it had been nominated for deletion but since only the nominator was against, it was kept. --Maragm (talk) 05:56, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

As long as the Velasgutto article clearly presents its subject as a legend, I'm not too concerned about it. Certainly, though, it's pushing up against the notability guidelines. I removed the category that could be construed as implying historicity.
That category ought to be deleted, I agree. The Category:Crown of Aragon is generally sufficient. For Aragonese people of the 9th/10th centuries, the County of Aragon could have its own category. Srnec (talk) 22:37, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

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Basil I

Would you be interested in giving your opinion concerning sources on the Basil I talk page? --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:46, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Genialis

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The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-Class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on the Battle of the Bulge Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the collapse of the Serbian Army in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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Move request about Spain in the American Revolutionary War

Hello Srnec. I did this move and move-protected the target:

• Anglo-Spanish War (1779–83) → Spain in the American Revolutionary War (move (@subpage)) – Undiscussed move, redirect salted by an anon. Almost certainly done by a sock of User:Vinukin (same as the last undiscussed move of this page to the same title). – Srnec (talk) 15:16, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

It's probable that there is socking involved. I encourage you to file this at SPI. Here are relevant contributions:

• Special:Contributions/187.13.220.220 (locked the last move by Uncle Doj)
• Special:Contributions/Uncle Doj (NOT BLOCKED as of yet)
• Special:Contributions/SuffrenXXI (blocked as sock of Vinukin)
• Special:Contributions/Hong Tray (checkuserblock)
• Special:Contributions/Vinukin (checkuserblock)

Many of these blocks are by User:Materialscientist. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 17:08, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

There are dozens. User:Lutie, User:Iponey, User:Aridatha and User:Mihlos, just to name a few. I'm not sure if it's all one sockmaster or several with overlapping areas of interest. But you can see, e.g., at Sigfried, Count of the Ardennes and Margrave of Flanders, how many usernames have been created and used once or twice to edit the same obscure place as some of these guys. I notified Materialscientist about one User:Red Rudy a few days ago and he blocked him. It's weird. Srnec (talk) 04:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

I've semiprotected Sigfried, Count of the Ardennes and Margrave of Flanders. EdJohnston (talk) 02:55, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open!

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Peace of Basel

I am surprised you chose to bypass the conversation I opened in the Talk Page and simply revert the change I made--an attempt to compromise. My intentions were, of course, to enrich the article, but also to show respect for those who wanted to participate, and to set a pattern of behavior that would avoid edit warring and promote consensus. Your summary comments are not enough to justify your claims. It leaves reader wondering what is behind. In fact, I am curious and would consider your arguments if they are presented well in its appropriate forum. I understand the need to be bold, but you push away potential collaborators with brisk reactions and by ignoring conversations. So, please, present your reasons for removing the site in the Talk Page. Perhaps there is a troll or something else I am missing. Cheers, Historiador (talk) 14:14, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

A possible error

According to The Battle of the Golden Spurs, by J. F. Verbruggen and Kelly DeVries, page 189 note 203, the count of Dammartin(John) was later killed at the battle of Mons-en-Pevele in 1304.[6]

This is supported by the Annales de l'Est et du Nord, page 227 note 6. [7] and Le Roman de la Manekine, by Philippe de Beaumanoir, Barbara Nelson Sargent-Baur, Alison Stones, Roger Middleton, page 3.[8]

Your thoughts? --Kansas Bear (talk) 07:37, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, the Verbruggen source would seem definitive. At least he was not killed at Courtrai. Although I wrote John I, Count of Dammartin, his death date is give only as "? 1302" in Karp's article and I don't have access to the article in Romania anymore. So I'm not sure what the basis was for asserting that his were among the golden spurs. I am less certain that Verbruggen and the others are correct about Mons-en-Pévèle. Sources place his death before May 1304[9], when his son Renaud first used the comital title. This would make his appearance at Mons-en-Pévèle impossible. Delisle's work (cited inVerbruggen) on the counts of Dammartin is available online here. He says that John was confused with his nephew Renaud, who did die at Courtrai. He denies that John was alive at the time of the battle of Mons-en-Pévèle. Best I can tell, Delisle's work, although old, is still the main source for the counts of Dammartin. I will edit John's article accordingly. Srnec (talk) 20:09, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Do you not find it odd that Verbruggen mentions those two sources(Chronographia & le Muisit), yet, as far as we can see in his book, he does not state definitively John's death at Courtrai? If you decide to reinstate John's death at Courtrai, I will support it. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:00, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Now I do, yes. Because it's just as easy for Verbruggen to confound Jean and his nephew Renaud or son Renaud as for anybody else. According to Kelly DeVries, "The Use of Chronicles in Creating Medieval Military History", The Journal of Medieval Military History 2 (2004): 1–16, it is the Chronique Tournaisienne that places Jean's death at Courtrai. It puts words in the mouth of Renaud after the battle of Mons-en-Pévèle in which he mentions his father the count's murder at Courtrai. Srnec (talk) 23:30, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

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It's that season again...

		Happy Saturnalia
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVII, December 2015

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Happy Holidays

Wishing you very happy holidays and the best for next year. It's always a pleasure to collaborate with you in articles on Medieval topics. Best regards, --Maragm (talk) 13:43, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

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Your edit to Chrodoara

I see you deleted info on her marriage as unsourced. This is given (unsourced) in wikipedia.de, and chasing around the various links here it sems to be unsourced everywhere, and may be dubious, so I'm not going to undo it. Too bad, it would tie up some relationships neatly. Peter Flass (talk) 01:49, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Found a source. Peter Flass (talk) 02:22, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

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Crown of Aragon

Hello and Happy 2016! Sorry to bother you. I saw that you were one of the first editors of Crown of Aragon. I am trying to launch a Wikiproject to run more or less in parallel with the Spanish counterpart. I was wondering whether you would be interested in taking part. Thanks for yer time, Edmarinuk (talk) 15:06, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

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Possibly unfree File:Florin d'or of Amadeus III of Geneva.jpg

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The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on Jefferson Davis; Hawkeye7 on Australia's war in Vietnam Op-ed: TomStar81 discusses British World War I conscription Timeline: This month in World War I

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Nuño González de Lara (died 1296)‎

Thank you for your corrections! - Clark Sui (talk) 03:49, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

No problem. I notice that Simon Doubleday does use numerals (I, II and III), but he has the died-in-1296 guy as #3. I was a bit unsure about these, since I'm more familiar with earlier Spanish naming customs, but I trusted the Spanish WP and cross-checked it against Sánchez de Mora and Doubleday. Hopefully, I can get to died-in-1275 Nuño soon, since there are quite a few links for him. Srnec (talk) 04:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Your comments on Fermentation (Food)

Hi Srnec, I refer to your observations on the edit source section of the page : Fermentation in Food Processing. Your comment was made in 2013, so new developments may have occurred of which I am not aware. I very recently joined Wikipedia as an editor and joined the “Food and Drink” project in the expectation to find editors matching my interest. I noticed that “Fermentation” is found in “Microbiology” and “Biochemistry” where the respective aspects are covered. I have been teaching “Food Fermentation” for many years and I feel that for students, Wiki has much to offer, although more coherence will be desirable. A kind of “Road Map” that links the existing data, and that adds new where needed. I hope you can help me a bit with comments or tips. Thanks in advance. Wagfermwp (talk) 09:51, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

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Suero

Hi Srnec, re Suero, in Mindonienses, No. 27 (2011) which you can download here, there's a charter in Tumbo de Lugo, pp 264-65 dated 18 Aug 989 where Suero was still alive, in case you want to extend his lifespan by one year. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 22:52, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. There is a book by López Ferreiro that places his death in 991, but I can only see a tiny snippet on Google. I didn't want to add that information without being able to see what his source was, since none of the sources I used gave a death date, including Salazar y Acha, which is the source for the "floruit" I used. Srnec (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

You can download all of the volumes. The one you want for Suero would be:

*López Ferreiro, Antonio (1899). Historia de la Santa A.M. Iglesia de Santiago de Compostela (PDF) (in Spanish). Vol. Vol. II. Santiago de Compostela: Imp. y Enc. del Seminario Conciliar Central. OCLC 932806777. {{cite book}}: |volume= has extra text (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help)

p. 406: Uprising of Suero G., Gonzalo Menéndez, Galindo y Osorio Díaz; P. 409, note 1, death of Suero Gundemáriz; p. 446 His wife’s name was Teodegonza “cognomento” Goncina;p. 465 On Rodrigo Romániz, Suero’s nephew (Lapio is now Labio).

If you want the other volumes, replace in the Url 02 for 01, 03, etc. e.g. [10] Vol. III. --Maragm (talk) 08:45, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I don't know how I didn't notice this myself! Srnec (talk) 19:41, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Note of thanks for the citations

Thank you for your additions of sources and citations to the new Barons' Crusade article. Not confident in my ability to get the refs accurately, I was anxious about eventually adding the necessary cites, so your edits helped me quite a bit. Also, please see my new post at Talk:Barons' Crusade, regarding the removal of the French flag from the info box. I did not revert your change, but rather replaced "Theobald of Navarre" with "Theobald of Champagne", as he is referred to in the sources, and then re-added the flag. As explained on the talk page, I don't believe it is an "absurd" thing to include, and in retrospect I hope you can understand that it is a rather uncollaborative thing to call another user's good faith contributions. Blue Danube (talk) 14:51, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Also, just noticed your page for Guigues IV of Forez, brilliant work! Complete with picture, too. Blue Danube (talk) 15:37, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

User:Alsrigs

FYI (and FYI @Garagepunk66:): that was brunodam, an lta known for adding copyvios and false informations (also misusing sources). --Vituzzu (talk) 16:32, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-Class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on nuclear weapons in Britain and Nick-D on Australia's war in the Pacific Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the Kamurun Campaign of 1914–16 Timeline: This month in World War I

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Circle of the Rhine

Hi Srnec, Sundar and I are having difficulty agreeing some wording and I wondered if you could help. See the talk page and recent edits. Essentially I'm just trying to translate the German Wiki article accurately using the historical term "circle" for Kreis and Sundar doesn't like the term and prefers either "district" (which is how we translate the modern Kreis) or nothing at all. But I can't see how the sources support that. --Bermicourt (talk) 09:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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Sancho Ramírez

Going over the Colección diplomática de Ramiro I de Aragón (online and used as ref), I just noticed that the author claims that the 1049 charter where Sancho Ramírez, Count of Ribagorza apparently appears for the first time, is false (even though it is mentioned in the two other references; Lapena and Arco y Garay). I think he is probably right, being an expert on the subject. What to do? Should I remove that section and add it as a note or leave it as it is now? On another front, I saw three article this morning all written by blocked IPs (sockpuppet accts) that I think should be deleted: Flávio Sisebuto de Coimbra, Flávio Ataúlfo de Coimbra, and Sueiro Belfaguer. I can't remember where exactly, I think it might have been Agricolae, who mentioned in an article discussion page that these might have to do with those false chronicles on the Kingdom of Galicia. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Funny, I was going to ask you about those articles (Flávio Sisebuto, Flávio Ataúlfo and Sueiro) and what should be done with them. I agree that they should be deleted. We should have an article on the "false chronicles"... eventually.

I would mention that the 1049 charter is suspect in the text and put in a note who suspects it and who accepts it. Srnec (talk) 17:50, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Also, is it "Lapeña Paúl" with the accent on the u, as I have corrected it? I always assumed it was Paúl like Raúl, but some sources omit the accent. Which is correct? Srnec (talk) 17:53, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Gotta rush out to dinner and I'm running late. Will talk tomorrow about the Flavios, etc. On Ramiro, correct whatever you deem fit...yes, I just noticed in the frontcover of the book that it is Paúl. If don't get to do it, I'll correct tomorrow. Many thanks, --Maragm (talk) 18:21, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I reworded the part on the 1049 charter and will look further into this. The author mentions another of his works where he explains why he considers it false and I'll try to find that. Often, these charters are considered false because the monastery, for example, wants to enlarge a royal donation to include more properties, but may be a rehash of a previous authentic charter with the authentic donation and witnesses.

Re the false chronicles, there are many, including the Charte d'Alaon. I'll see if I can find the one on these Flavios Sisebutos and Ataúlfos. In the es.wiki there are a couple of articles on these "falsifiers": Antonio Lupián Zapata and Jerónimo Román de la Higuera. I downloaded from googlebooks Historia crítica de los falsos cronicones. The alphabetical index starts on p. 349 of the pdf, and worth reading (just went over it quickly this morning), are the following pages (referring to the pdf page): starting on p. 173 on Hermenegildo y su familia, p. 337 on the Battle of Clavijo, p. 220 on Witizza and D. Rodrigo, and a very demolishing critique of Pellicer starting around p. 195 of the pdf. --Maragm (talk) 12:27, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I'll take a look at Historia crítica de los falsos cronicones. Re Higuera, there is this in English. We also have an article on Flavius Lucius Dexter. Srnec (talk) 03:40, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that ref on Román de la Higuera. Just found another one in Spanish "The greatest liar in history". Just one more thing: I added another online source under the "Further reading" section in Sancho Ramírez, Count of Ribagorza. Also added it to County of Ribagorza. I see that in the lead it mentions a "Basque dynasty" (with citation needed added after the assertion). In the new source I added, starting on p. 29 of the pdf, it mentions the Celts, other people from Gaul (Galia Transalpina), Rhineland, Liguria, the Iberians, Basques, etc. Seems to have been a "melting pot" and, since no reference has been added, I would remove that and recover the lead in this version and maybe elaborate more to include these other migrations. --Maragm (talk) 06:20, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

A concern/question

After adding some references to Ralph I, Count of Vermandois, I noticed that his first wife Eleanor is mentioned as daughter of Stephen II, Count of Blois. As of last night's search, all sources I found pertaining to Eleanor depict her as a niece of Theobald II, Count of Champagne, a son of Stephen II, Count of Blois. One source states that Eleanor probably was the daughter of William, Count of Sully, Theobald's older brother. Would you happen to be able to shed some light on this? --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:11, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

All the sources I checked call her a niece of Theobald, so I trust that is correct. Also, I trust the Evergates source. He's an expert on Champagne, but I can shed no further light on this. Srnec (talk) 23:47, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

A proposal

Srnec, despite our sometimes heated discussions I certainly believe that we are both trying in good faith to improve overall article quality. Since the discussions/RfC at Kingdom of Germany keep stagnating though, I've thought about simply bringing it up at WP:DRN. Would you participate in this? Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 11:35, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Since this isn't really a simple dispute between two editors, but a longstanding disagreement with several editors on each side, I'm not sure how much DRN can help. If you want to start a thread there and see how it goes, I will participate. If, however, your main contention is that (a) the article should be deleted or (b) its title changed, I'd say forget it. There have been move discussions before. They've all failed. And deletion, of course, is no compromise. I'd suggest AFD if that's what you want.

I think it might be more fruitful if you worked on a draft in your userspace of what you think (the skeleton of) an article titled "Kingdom of Germany" ought to look like. That's just a suggestion. I don't really know why you think this concept is so problematic. (All I know is that the greatest opposition to this article is Dutch and I suspect there is something being taught in schools there...) Srnec (talk) 01:07, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

@Srnec: It was a proposal, not a warning, and I didn't do anything yet. The reason I considered DRN was that it definitely was mostly between the two of us, with me intent on moving it and you intent on keeping it as-is. Most of the time I had no intent on deleting the article though. I didn't see any other Dutch people but it may be that, yes, the lack of any mention in our schools about having been part of a "Kingdom of Germany" may raise some eyebrows when first seeing that map. Specifically our objection could be that we become classified as "German" which in our language is correct ("Germaans"), but in English can only refer to "Duitsers".

But listen, to clarify: I don't dislike Germany at all. Apart from that one time it was the best neighbour we could have had. But the confusion of English-speakers between "German" and "Germanic" is so persistent that it can sometimes get annoying. All I wanted was to prevent any misconceptions. No hard feelings, I hope. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 16:21, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Rhenish Palatinate

Hi Srnec. Sorry to bother you, but I wonder if you'd take a look at the changes to this page. I have replied to the discussion at this page and at Rheinpfalz. I'm happy to accept that Rheinpfalz may be used today in German to refer to Pfalz, but the other comments push an agenda that was, in part, overridden at Talk:Circle of the Rhine. Cheers. --Bermicourt (talk) 10:19, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016

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