User talk:Senra/Archive 5

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Archived --Senra (Talk) 13:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Lars Pearson article AfD

Hi Senra. I just wanted to leave you a quick note that the Lars Pearson article you marked for {{rescue}} was closed today as "no consensus", so it still exists. Not quite as good as a "Keep" but much better than a "Delete". I improved the article quite a bit, so it shouldn't get marked with any other tags. -      Hydroxonium (talk) 02:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Great work. I am appalled at the increasingly stricter interpretations of notability that seem to be appearing, especially on topics that the AFD nominators know little or nothing about. I am not a Dr Who fan myself but even I can see that an article such as Lars Pearson, which is linked to by around eighteen other articles, deserves some attention. Thank you so much for your help --Senra (Talk) 10:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome and thanks for the comments. I have been following your post at the Village pump with great interest. I agree with you 100% as do many others, as noted by the comments both there and here. I don't know what the solution is, but I do believe it is a central issue that needs to be fixed. Thanks very kindly for bringing it up. Best regards. -      Hydroxonium (talk) 15:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Great minds think alike (re: your post at Village pump)

I was adding to your post at the Village pump the same time your were. I fixed the edit conflict. Just wanted to let you know this is an issue close to me and I'm supporting you. Maybe we should be contacting those users who have commented here on your talk page and get some kind of review board going or something. I'm not really sure what to do as I'm new to all this. -      Hydroxonium (talk) 00:04, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I am too new myself to be aware of the wider picture or the real solution(s). My tactic, for now, is to wait and see what transpires. I will continue to develop articles whilst helping new users to help themselves where I can. Thank you for your support. Much appreciated --Senra (Talk) 00:17, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

"Wait and see" sound like a good idea for us newbies. Thanks. -      Hydroxonium (talk) 01:40, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I have "waited" and I'm not "seeing" anything more. I'm hoping that something comes from this. -      Hydroxonium (talk) 01:17, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

There was a significant debate. During that debate, it was stated that this issue had occurred before with Bullypedia, Bullying debate and Newbie treatment of speedy deletion. I am certain the our debate made a few deletionists think more about the new editor, for a while anyway. I was impressed by the overall quality of our debate. I was not expecting an outcome. HOWEVER, our debate is recorded along with the small personal survey I did (in the table). The wait and see bit I talked about was waiting and seeing if any new new editors surface that have been badly treated - at least in my own small corner of the wiki anyway. All seems quite at the moment. I am glad to see only one article in my original table got deleted (apart for the four queens that was deleted before I got to it)! So that is a plus. One of the articles in the table even went to DYK! (Counsel and Care) so there is one new user who is happy :) --Senra (Talk) 01:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Sit back. Relax. Every day, in every way, we are getting better and better :) --Senra (Talk) 01:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Senra. You are a wise and good person. I have to say you are a personal inspiration to me, and I am trying to be as good as you. I have been studying your work and have learned a great deal. Your use of talk pages has been especially enlightening to me. Thank you. I'm really happy you noticed the Bullypedia and WP:NEWT stuff. The person that posted that is a new user that had been subjected to a different kind of abuse and is eager to see some type of reform — and admits to not being very patient. But enough of that. I'll just say thanks for bringing up the issue at the Village pump. I appreciate your efforts. Thanks. -      Hydroxonium (talk) 05:49, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Counsel and Care

Hello! Your submission of Counsel and Care at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 23:31, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Clarified with pleasure --Senra (Talk) 00:06, 17 September 2010 (UTC)cla

Great news on it's acceptance. Do we know when it will be on the front page? Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 16:33, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Anytime in the next five or so days I guess depending how busy they are --Senra (Talk) 18:07, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank You for Your Advice

Although I could not allege whether I would create biographies for persons or not in the future, at least I know how to create one without being disturbed by copyright problems.Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern (talk) 12:24, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem. It is so sad to see an editor like yourself trying hard to create articles without success. I find it better to draft an article in my user-space (see WP:USER) so it has less chance of being deleted. That way, I have time to work on it properly; getting help from other editors before I move it into wikipedia proper. The guidance I gave you is easily adaptable to other wikipedia topics than just biographies. Please do let me know about your next article, whatever the topic, so I can assist you. Together, we may even be able to get your next article onto the wikipedia front-page (WP:DYK)! Good luck my friend --Senra (Talk) 14:58, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Counsel and Care

— Rlevse • Talk • 12:03, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikicup madness

"whilst it is nice to get an article in the DYK section, it is making a mockery of the process to add similar topics all from the same nom all in one go." I agree, but you have to bear in mind that each DYK is worth 10 points to the nominator. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 14:17, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• Wish I had the skill (and the guts) to CSD, PROD or AFD each one of those five Wolverine's men's basketball team DYK's - he he. I am not sure such competitions stimulate the desired quality article production (my comment is not NPOV of course); even the DYK, GAN and FAC processes are a competition of sorts. Perhaps this is all a game anyway! What do points make? ...-

There are six such Wolverine articles currently at DYK; I suggested marking five for deletion, leaving one remainder in the spirit of DYK :)

-Senra (Talk) 15:22, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Just checked (for the fun of it)

• 1990–91 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team fails DYK selection criteria #2 1124 < 1500
• 1994–95 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team fails DYK selection criteria #2 1350 < 1500
• 1995–96 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team fails DYK selection criteria #2 1096 < 1500
• 1997–98 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team passes DYK selection criteria #2 at least
• 1992–93_Michigan_Wolverines_men's_basketball_team passes DYK selection criteria #2 at least
• 1998–99_Michigan_Wolverines_men's_basketball_team passes DYK selection criteria #2 at least

--Senra (Talk) 15:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Playing with magic

Malleus Fatuorum (talk · contribs) has recently visited my page, Senra/Archive 5, which is of course User talk:Senra/Archive 5; he is of course welcome. Hydroxonium (talk · contribs) has also visited my page recently; he/she is welcome too. Everyone is welcome actually. Honest! Anyway, to continue, the wiki has 60,550,931 pages of which 6,818,356 are articles managed by 122,676 active users out of a total of 47,324,780 registered users. Those active users are administered by 861 members of the sysop group.

Static (18:44, 20 September 2010 (UTC))
Magic (09:43, 29 April 2024 (UTC)) statistics

Item	Static	Magic	Var
PAGES	21,580,008	60,550,931	38,970,923
ARTICLES	3,418,525	6,818,356	3,399,831
REGISTERED USERS	13,077,916	47,324,780	34,246,864
REGISTERED ACTIVE USERS	133,133	122,676	−10,457
SYSOP GROUP	1,755	861	−894

The above nonsense was generated 09:43, 29 April 2024 (UTC) but was created by --Senra (Talk) 18:44, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

1,755? That's far too many. The Devil makes work for idle hands. Malleus Fatuorum 18:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

This means that each users looks after approximately 56 article pages and each user is monitored by approximately 142 admins. Wait a minute. There is something wrong there. Oh wait! My bad. I mean that each admin monitors approximately 142 active users and 7,919 article pages --Senra (Talk) 19:08, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

You're almost half right: each admin monitors approximately 75 active users, but most couldn't even find an article page if their lives depended on it. Malleus Fatuorum 19:26, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

When I started this crazy magic, there were 1,755 members of the sysop group; now there are 0 less! What have you done with them Malleus? --Senra (Talk) 11:46, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Cheer up, this table shows the flow is slowing down, and the number of active admins has been falling steadily, from 1,020 in early 2008 to just over 800 today, a loss (or gain, depending on your point of view) of about six a month. JohnCD (talk) 13:32, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Why do I need cheering up? I am perfectly happy. Just having a bit of fun with numbers. For example, if 4 admins got demoted today, my above sentence should still work. Here are some more numbers: of 6,818,356 articles, around 0.6% (39,573) are good and around 0.1% (6,478) are featured --Senra (Talk) 23:50, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

"Cheer up" wasn't addressed to you so much as to Malleus, who famously thinks there are too many admins. Another number for you: average rate of new article creation, the last couple of times I looked: one every 50 sec. I am not sure whether I find that encouraging or alarming. The really horrifying number above is 0.3% as the proportion of Good Articles. Improvement of some of the 99.7% of not-good articles is where I think effort should be encouraged. JohnCD (talk) 12:38, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

He is also famous for using a word but I believe he only ever said it once --Senra (Talk) 16:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Math

Re. the math thing; you quit, I was about to say: see here for more help w/ it. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  18:50, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Most useful --Senra (Talk) 19:10, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Smile!

Hello Senra, Thesevenseas has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Set Sail For The Seven Seas 316° 36' 14" NET 21:06, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Ely and Littleport riots 1816

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:03, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The WP:FEED backlog

Hello Senra. You have provided me with feedback in the past which has proved to be useful so I am hoping you will help out at the feedback page, as we have a massive backlog. It'd be really great if you provided some advice to other, new users on their articles.

Also you might like to join the discussion at WT: Feed --Ykraps (talk) 21:25, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Sure I will help out. I just reviewed a couple before answering you here. I cannot promise to be regular but I will do my best to do a couple per day if that helps --Senra (Talk) 21:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

That's great. I'm not a regular contributer either, helping out only when I remember to or when there's a backlog. It is easy to forget the not quite as interesting, but equally necessary work that goes on here. A couple here and there will still help enormously so thanks.--Ykraps (talk) 07:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the help and followup

Hello. Thanks for taking the time to help me with my article. I read over the links you gave me and thought that since the source for the main article (regular season and Insight.com Bowl) is a single publication, that a general reference would suffice. I added it and here is the link to the article again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bulldiser/2000_Pittsburgh_Panthers_football_team I also changed the citation to conform with the MLA style. Thanks again for your help. Bulldiser (talk) 17:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome. I had another look at the article and improved the use of the existing references. However, more references are needed, especially in the prose above the tables. You cannot say all that stuff without citing any sources :) Look in newspapers and magazines but of course, do not copy from them; instead use your own words - see WP:COPYVIO. By the way, I am not a sports expert, so you may need help from someone who caresunderstands more about sport. By all means come to me for help on referencing styles, reliable sources, etc. Good luck --Senra (Talk) 17:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. I'll take your advise and find the old newspaper articles from the games. Bulldiser (talk) 18:45, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think you put this in the wrong place

It doesn't seem like you intended this to be an article, but it is:

ID (below) Prefix (right)		symbolises
Basic structure
fBHF		Town
fHST		Village or hamlet
fSTR		Straight section
fKBFa	File:BSicon fKBFa.svg	Town start
fKBFe	File:BSicon fKBFe.svg	Town end
Bridges and tunnels
fKRZo		Over road
fKRZu		Under road

Let me know if I can help with this in some way. (I am watching this page, so please reply here.) — Timneu22 · talk 01:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

It is intended as a legend to Border-to-Border Trail. I suspect it really needs to be a collapsible table inside the article, ideally within the table itself. Still trying to work out how to do it. There is a sandbox here if you feel inclined to help --Senra (Talk) 09:57, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Roddon

Hi, There's not much difference between accepting an article with an offline source and an article for which we can read the source — they're both accepted at DYK. If this case comes up in the future, you could put a note on the nomination like the one you did on my talk page. Yoninah (talk) 13:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, thank you --Senra (Talk) 13:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Baffled

I'm a bit baffled to be honest, the editor in question has been here a long time but seems not to understand many of our basic policies. --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:27, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

It does seem odd. Perhaps someone has stolen his account? --Senra (Talk) 11:29, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm starting to wonder the same thing or maybe he gave it to someone. I might start an AN/I report about this. --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:53, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Roddon

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:04, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Ykraps/Landmarks of Christchurch, Dorset

Hi Senra.

As you have shown an interest in the Christchurch page, I thought you might be interested in a new article I'm working on. It has been suggested that I do this as the current article is a bit bloated. The article is at Wikipedia:Requests for feedback/2010 October 4. Please feel free to review it there, if you have time. I would particularly like an 'outsider's' perspective and thought you might like to provide one. Thanks--Ykraps (talk) 17:04, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I have acknowledged your comments at WP:Requests for feedback/2010 October 4. Regards--Ykraps (talk) 07:20, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks once again for your comments. I have been thinking about the list format idea and have created User:Ykraps/Landmarks of Christchurch, Dorset (list). Perhaps you might see if you prefer the look of it.--Ykraps (talk) 18:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. I would sort the name column too and not sure about including the just listed buildings (i.e. only include Grade I, II* and II – IMHO of course) --Senra (Talk) 20:44, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Another point. I discovered recently that our readers not resident or from the United Kingdom have a little difficulty with the concept of Listed Buildings. I wrote something about our listing process following a review which eventually got removed again. You may find part of it useful in the lead of your list. Consider adding some quantative information about the area in the lead such as how many grade I; costs of heritage in the area and such like --Senra (Talk) 21:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Your list User:Ykraps/Landmarks of Christchurch, Dorset (list) is looking very impressive. Ready for WP:PR now (IMHO) --Senra (Talk) 11:30, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ely and Littleport riots 1816

The article Ely and Littleport riots 1816 you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Ely and Littleport riots 1816 for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of said article. If you oppose this decision, you may ask for a reassessment. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Boredom

I've just come from looking for sources for Marsh Lane (Longton) (AfD discussion), where I ended up finding sources for something different. If you ever get bored with churches and Cambridgeshire, you can always look to Ribble Way, which is in need of some attention. It doesn't have the centuries of history behind it, it originating in the 1960s according to one source, but you should feel the familiar comfort of a subject involving marshland, ne? ☺ At the very least, it could probably be spruced up with some pictures and a map, or even just meaningful coördinates for something that is supposedly over 110km long. Uncle G (talk) 20:55, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

• Disillusioned by a failed GAN at the moment but sure, I will have a look at the Ribble Way - I have some personal history messin' about in the River Ribble in my very distant youth! --Senra (Talk) 21:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Goodonyer! Don't worry too much about the GA process. Uncle G (talk) 11:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Don't worry too much! Still disillusioned. Anyway, back to Ribble Way. The route is marked on OS Open Space maps (2010). Would it be WP:OR to plot the coordinates of then tabulate the route using this resource? Columns could be Route-id, Distance, Image, Place, Coords, Comment. As with other similar projects, I am far more interested in setting up the basic information (in this case, the entire route plot) and leaving others to fill in the details (such as images). I have also found this Lancashire County Council map which does not have clear Lat/Long but can be used to verify the OS map. I was also considering a major towns and villages along the route plot using something similar to what I did at Border-to-Border Trail. Other such English walks are boring in wikipedia - such as Thames Path, Yorkshire Wolds Way and Icknield Way Path. What do you think? --Senra (Talk) 13:25, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
      • My initial thinking was that the article is just crying out to have some of its sections refactored into a "route" section, and that there's probably good sourcing for the route, a prose description thereof and probably other things as well, in the books cited. Unfortunately, I have no access to the books. By the way: You've demonstrated once again that other people's access to sources is superior to mine. I have no access to The Guardian newspaper in the 1970s. ☺

        My educated guess is that if you pull up the books by Sellers or by the Kelsalls, you'll find all of the distances and intersections ready-made. Uncle G (talk) 19:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

• No preview available for Sellers and limited preview available for Kelsalls reduces my ability to help more here until 20 October when I have returned some library books. In the meantime, I dropped a route diagram in the article if that helps --Senra (Talk) 20:03, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

East Cambs stuff

Hello from South Wales! As my username Burwellian suggests, I grew up in Burwell and have gotten a bit fed up of the state the village page is in. Again. I've tried half heartedly a few times to make a decent article out of it (about half of the content there before yesterday was my own doing over the past few years) but have lacked a bit of direction until looking at WP:UKCITIES the other day and seeing the Little Thetford article. I was curious if you've got any suggestions, advice, etc that could be benefitted from? I'd advise a hard hat if you're going onto the article at the moment as it's a mess as I'm kinda using the actual article for drafting as well, hence the in use template... - JVG (talk) 17:34, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I am flattered that you are asking me for advice though I am really no expert. My initial approach was two-steps forward, one-step back. Like you I then found WP:UKCITIES which helped enormously. For Little Thetford I used the editorial facilities available to us all at Wikipedia: WP:RFF, WP:PR, then WP:GAN, WP:PR (again) and finally WP:FAC. The FAC was an horrendous process! Given the above, I can provide some overall comments which I hope you take constructively as intended

• The lead does not summarise the article well. I would suggest leaving this until last. One point I would make about the lead. Who says it is large? Although the word large is not mentioned in MOS:words to watch, I would be careful of using it unless a WP:RS says it. Litteport is large and is verifiably so!
• Bare external links should not be in the main body of the article - see WP:EL. At the very least convert them all to references using <ref>[http://somethwhere]</ref> but better is to use a relevant {{Citation}} template. If a link is not appropriate to convert to a reference it should be in the external links section. Avoid links in the external links section that are also referenced in the article
• Much of the article is unreferenced. If you cannot find supporting sources with inline references for every paragraph or potentially contentious statement then such paragraphs and statements should be removed
• The governance section seems inappropriatly political for an encyclopaedia. I recommemd cutting a lot of it. Consider what would need to be modified if there was a change in political party and remove all such detail - see Wikipedia:MOS#Chronological_items
• Consider using prose instead of lists as per Wikipedia:MOS#Bulleted_and_numbered_lists
• The Burwell Museum section is probably too WP:ADVERT and should be cut or significantly reduced

I have not looked at other article details such as prose, images, WP:RS nor WP:VERIFY. My above observations may assist getting through the editorial process (WP:PR, WP:GAN and WP:FAC) a little easier. I consider WP:RFF an earlier editorial process which I suspect is not needed here. I hope it helps. Feel free to drop me a line any time if you feel I can help further. Good luck

--Senra (Talk) 19:00, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

All useful; Governance was knocked together this afternoon but I'm aware it's pretty political so will prob revisit it anyway. I've barely attacked the lead yet and was kind of intending to leave it til last except it kept bugging me so I redid the first para at least. External links and references are also issues I've spotted, and the Museum is why I've tagged it as unsuitable and singled that very point out on the rather long to do list I've put on the talk page! The lists are mainly my notes to tell me what I'm planning to write in, so won't be staying :) Cheers for the reply, I'll copy this onto my own user talk page so I can refer to it easier if you don't mind? - JVG (talk) 21:17, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

No worries. Just been thinking (dangerous I know). The resources listed on my user page my be of use to you as they have mainly been developed for places and churches. Additionally, consider reviewing British Geology Survey for your geology section, specifically Geology Viewer and Heritage Gateway for local archaeology information

Oh thank you! Geology's the one bit I'm kinda dreading doing; love geography, but my geology is more than a little bit rusty. How does the Governance section seem now by the way? - JVG (talk) 22:01, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks better. Personally, I would remove Paice entirely due chronology and put Pym into the notable people section --Senra (Talk) 22:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

While I'm thinking of it, the historical population data spreadsheet; any idea what the colours mean in it? I can't seem to find a legend. - JVG (talk) 13:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I guess you mean "Historic Census Population Figures" (XLS). Cambridgeshire County Council. 2010. Retrieved 4 June 2010.. No. The figures were produced by Cambridgeshire County Council and they have not been clear about their sources --Senra (Talk) 14:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that's the one. Useful of them... - JVG (talk) 14:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Just checked the geology (I am not a geologist so you need to check this somewhere else too). According to Geology of Britain viewer, Burwell sits on an chalk outcrop. More specifically, it sits on a north-east to south-west running West Melbury Marly chalk formation with the southern most part of the village outcropped by a zig zag chalk formation.

Icknield Way probably passes nearby or through Burwell? That has historical roots (Iron Age?) and is a modern ramblers walk

News?

• The Times Tuesday 11 July 1786 p. 3, col.3 Extract of a letter from Cambridge, July 7th: Murder in Burwell
• The Times Saturday 8 March 1851 p. 8, col. F A riot in The Fens

--Senra (Talk) 15:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Worssam, B C (1975) [1969]. Geology of the Country around Cambridge:Explanation of One-inch Geological Sheet 188, New Series (2 ed.). London: HMSO. p. 130. ISBN 011880068. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

The principal locally-produced building stone is Burwell Stone, or Burwell Rock, from the [geological] horizon of the Totternhoe Stone in the Lower Chalk. Penning and Jukes-Browne (1881, p. 46) remarked of Carter's Pit, Burwell, that the lowest beds exposed were used only for interior work but that the over-lying 'bond' stone, 3 ft thick, if properly dried became very hard and made a good building stone. In a pit just to the south a block of it weighing 5 tons, and measuring roughly 100 cu ft, had been obtained. The blocks were shaped with a tool somewhat like a two-edged battle-axe, and allowed to get thoroughly dry before being used for building. In 1952 the 'bond' stone had been worked out at Carter's Pit, but compact unjointed chalk from below its level was being worked for external repairs to Woburn Abbey. ...

--Senra (Talk) 15:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Icknield Way passes just to the south, but will def get a mention due to Bronze age findings on the Heath in the south of the parish as well; the A11 certainly looks like a Roman Road too and remains of a Roman villa are known in the village, but can't find a name for the Roman Road. The parish may only extend as far south as the A14 now, but it used to cover part of the racecourse as far as the old A11. The murder is news to me but the riot isn't, I still need to work the details of that out though. Chalk sounds right; there's that and clunch in the area and a few quarries, plus an obvious ridge extending north of the village towards Burwell Broad and Soham... *copies sources to Burwell talk page* - JVG (talk) 16:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Icknield is more important than perhaps you think. I am frantically searching for the reference (no luck still looking) but from memory, if you draw a line south-west from Norwich you are drawing a line along the Icknield Way; along a chalk-escarpment. The Fens have been undrained since, erm, 16th century or even before (some say the Romans drained the Fens; some disagree). Anyway, Icknield Way is ancient and dry and well before the Romans. Talking about the Romans, not sure you have a major named Roman road in your area - maybe a minor one

Clunch is basically a local name for chalk (OED A soft white limestone forming the lower and harder beds of the chalk, occasionally used for building purposes, esp. internal carved work.) --Senra (Talk) 17:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

How many of these have you got? (I think I removed all the Lincolnshire ones) ODNB (2010). "Oxford Dictionary of National Biography" (Document) (online ed.). Oxford University Press. {{cite document}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |accessdate= ignored (help)(subscription required)

• Jenyns, Soame (1704–1787), author and politician
• Mandeville, Geoffrey de, first earl of Essex (d. 1144), magnate, was the son and heir of William de Mandeville, constable of the Tower of London
• Metcalfe, Robert (1579–1652/3), Hebraist and benefactor
• Stephenson, Marjory (1885–1948), biochemist
• Tiptoft, John, first Baron Tiptoft (c.1378–1443), administrator and speaker of the House of Commons
• Barrow, Samuel (1625?–1683), physician and lawyer of the army
• Benedict of Ramsey [Master Benedict (d. in or after 1211)], ecclesiastic and administrator, was one of King John's royal clerks
• Bouyer, Reynold Gideon (1741–1826), Church of England clergyman
• Davis, Richard (1658–1714), Independent minister, was born probably in Cardiganshire, of unknown parents
• Fitzball [formerly Ball, Edward (1793–1873)], playwright and writer, was born at Burwell in Cambridgeshire
• Fuller, Andrew (1754–1815), Baptist minister and theologian
• Jelfe, Andrews (c.1690–1759), masonry contractor and architect - ran quarry at Burwell
• Jenyns, Soame (1704–1787), author and politician

I am not saying all the above are notable enough for your village. Some editors frown on too many notable people but if youi get short, some of the above may be of use to you --Senra (Talk) 17:40, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I've sourced Icknield Way passing the South of the Parish in a Cambridgeshire County Council archeological survey, so I've got a source to justify me mentioning it. There is a page on it too. Devil's Dyke will need a mention as well obviously, given it and Reach Lode cover almost the entire western parish boundary! As for the names, Geoffrey de Mandeville has a street named after him in the village and supposedly died of wounds acquired trying to attack Burwell Castle so he's prob covered in good detail. Fitzball is in the pre-existing notable list as well... Again, shall copy list to the Burwell talk page. All useful, thanks very much :) - JVG (talk) 17:49, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I am scraping the barrel now. Examining Heritage Gateway centred on a 2 sq mi area of Burwell, Cambridgeshire we have

• 59 Listed Buildings of which one is Grade I (St Mary's Church) and two are Grade II* (Steven's Mill (formerly listed as Windmill) and No. 6 (Isacson's) (formerly listed as Nos 4 and 6))
• 160 records for CHER: The Cambridgeshire Historic Environment Record is the definitive source of information on archaeological sites and finds in the modern county of Cambridgeshire. In the case of Burwell, the 160 records include Prehistoric remains, Kingfisher Drive, Burwell and Probable Neolithic settlement, Hallard's Fen, Burwell as well as Bronze Age, Roman, and Medieval finds!

--Senra (Talk) 19:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Already been pillaging that site building up that bit of the History section as the evening's been going on! - JVG (talk) 20:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Transport: Consider adding one (or more?) of John Cary's Itinerary (1817) maps (1817) text (1810) coach routes if a route passes through Burwell (which I suspect a route does) --Senra (Talk) 20:37, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Hadn't thought of old coach routes, will have a look when I've sorted out at least a bare bones pre-history & Romans! - JVG (talk) 20:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Closest any routes seem to come are Ely > Bury along the modern A142 route (through Fordham to the east) or various routes passing through Newmarket along what's now the A1303 (A14/A45) or A1304 (A11). Strictly speaking, those two used to be on the edge of the parish before the border was redrawn (well the A1304 was; the A1303 terminates on it just west of the boundary), but I'm not yet aware of any significance of the routes to either the village or parish themselves to be able to argue notability to include them. :s - JVG (talk) 00:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Etymology: You say this already but I thought you may want a definitive source

‘spring or stream by the fort’, OE burh + wella: Burwell Cambs. Burcwell 1060, Buruuella 1086 (DB)

— Mills A D, Mills, A.D. (1991, 1998). A dictionary of British place-names. Oxford University press. ISBN 0198527586. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

--Senra (Talk) 09:18, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Two further thoughts

1. I would advise you relegate the lists currently in the article to the talk page so another editor does not come along and criticise the list structure as against the WP:MOS. That way, the article can stand up for itself better and would not look as unfinished as it does at the moment
2. I believe you live in Wales? Would you like me to undertake a photo expedition to Burwell whilst the weather holds? If so, let me have a (small) list of critical images that you feel would be useful and I will see what I can do

--Senra (Talk) 11:21, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Lists moved. As for the photo expedition, it'd be appreciated, though I'm not certain what pics would be critical yet. We already have a pic of St Mary's Church. We could possibly do with a pic of some sort of the listed Steven's Mill in Mill Close too, and the Castle which is next to the church in the Spring Close meadow; it's a bit of an overgrown set of earthworks these days and an old image would be better if we can use one; there was a wall standing until the 1930's. (Not crucial, but the spring is to the east of it below Mandeville, roughly on a line between the castle and the church.) The flaming heart grave in the churchyard maybe a good one for the article, relating to the barn fire; if you go from the old guildhall building (Mandeville-side of the churchyard) along the path towards the north door of the church, it's about 2nd row in on the right, 2nd or 3rd gravestone I think? Directions are from memory, but it's certainly close to that path, and the gravestone would prob make a better pic than the newish plaque on Cuckold Row. Beyond that, I'd have to say best judgment. - JVG (talk) 12:27, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

With regards to the flaming heart gravestone; it literally is engraved with a heart on fire on one side. The reverse has an inscription explaining the gravestone which states that it's the grave of those who died in the C18th barn fire. The flaming heart is poss better imagery wise, but the inscription might be useful too, not sure which would suit better.[1] (not sure the copyright status of the pics there) - JVG (talk) 12:44, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Some images as promised, in no particular order

• [File:Barn Fire memorial - Obverse.jpg Barn fire memorial - obverse]
• [File:Burwell Barn Fire memorial - Reverse.jpg Barn fire memorial - reverse]
• [File:St Mary the Virgin, Burwell - 2.jpg St Mary the Virgin Church, Burwell (view from north)]
• [File:St Mary the Virgin, Burwell - 1.jpg St Mary the Virgin Church tower, Burwell (view from west)]
• [File:Burwell museum - mill.jpg Burwell museum mill]

Burwell, Cambridgeshire

Barn fire memorial - obverse

Barn fire memorial - reverse

St Mary the Virgin Church, Burwell (view from north)

St Mary the Virgin Church tower, Burwell (view from west)

Burwell museum mill

--Senra (Talk) 15:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! Really like the St Mary's 2 and the Steven's Mill pics :) - JVG (talk) 16:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Mapping:

1. There is an OS Openspace map available via the Little Thetford village website at Little Thetford .org - choose Interactive Parish Map, then zoom out as far as it will go and slide the map south-east to Burwell. The map may be more useful than google maps as it can zoom in closer and the Lat/Long of any point on the map is continuously available (bottom right hand corner). The map is also larger than the OS maps available via OS Get-a-map. I am not saying the village website is WP:RS - it most certainly is not - but you may find the village interactive map useful for your research --Senra (Talk) 12:12, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
2. The Cambridgeshire County Council Geodemographics tool is well worth looking at for boundary information and demographics "Geodmographic tool" (Flash) (Map). Output Area Classification (OAC). Cambridgeshire County Council. 2008. Retrieved 14 June 2010. {{cite map}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help) --Senra (Talk) 12:19, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

More

• Church plans online reveal the 1861–1862 Victorian architect as John EDLIN
• Higson, Andrew (2008). "Burwell S Mary BV". Dove's Guide for Church Bell Ringers (online ed.). Central Council for Church Bell Ringers. Retrieved 23 August 2010. reveals eight bells hung for change ringing. Four of the bells are 1703 by Richard Keene
  • Additionally, the 2.5 cwt 1776 clock bell is by Pack & Chapman of the Whitechapel Bell Foundry - the oldest manufacturing company in Great Britain
• Church warden today told me organ was moved 1967–1968 from north-east corner of the nave to the base of the tower. There appear to be two records in the National Pipe Organ register as follows

• Cambridgeshire, Burwell St. Mary the Virgin [D01727]
• Cambridgeshire, Burwell St. Mary the Virgin [A00470]

Even more ...

• A bit about the church and the fire in Lysons, Samuel (1808). Magna Britannia;: being a concise topographical account of the several counties of Great Britain. Vol. 2. T. Cadell and W. Davies. p. 98.
• A bit about the church and de mandeville Lewis, Samuel (1811). A topographical dictionary of England (4 ed.). S. Lewis & Co.,. p. 396.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link)

--Senra (Talk) 17:35, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Erm, more!

• Report of dying man confessing to starting the fire Nichols, John (1774). The Gentleman's Magazine. Vol. 44. E. Cave. p. 92.
• Demolition of the Guildhall Urban, Sylvanus (1861). The Gentleman's Magazine. p. 170.

--Senra (Talk) 17:53, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It's going to end up needing a History of Burwell, Cambridgeshire page and a page on the church at this rate! :) As for DYK, I'd already thought of that, but I've only doubled it in the past few days, tripled at most. Certainly not quintupled. Tempted to do a subpage to draft the lot out and move across to allow a chance, but I'd be surprised if that would multiply what's currently there 5 times again, dunno... - JVG (talk) 18:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Have just set up Steven's Mill, Burwell and Church of St Mary the Virgin, Burwell as redirects, just so you know. Stumbled upon Neville Borton while setting up the latter. :) - JVG (talk) 19:36, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Happy 10/10/10

Double Ten Day is, really, unrelated—but we don't appear to have a cool pic for this one

I suppose I should've timed this message at 10:10:10 too, but frankly, I can't be arsed. You know how it is.

Did you know... that tenten in Japaense writing are a little wiggly thing, a bit like a quotation-mark, which makes e.g. "ka" (か) into "ga" (が) or "fu" (ふ) into "bu" (ぶ) ?

So, take time out to have a bit of a giggle.

All the best, and 10-10 'till we do it again.  Chzz  ►  08:49, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

listed building sources

See also: User talk:Iridescent § U.K. listed building sources

How are you on sources for U.K. Grade II listed buildings, such as Baker's Cross House at Baker's Cross? Uncle G (talk) 21:48, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• Cranbrook Baker's Cross, (West TQ 73 NE Side)
• Historic England. "Details from listed building database ({{{num}}})". National Heritage List for England.
• Flanders, Dennis (1984), Dennis Flanders' Britannia: being a selection from the work of Dennis Flanders, R.W.S., R.B.A., who for half a century has observed, drawn & loved the landscape & architecture of the British Isles, Taylor & Francis, p. 184, ISBN 9780853622062

--Senra (Talk) 22:40, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you. Flanders1984 I had found already, and the other two look like copies of a listing that I had found a third copy of already. ☺ Iridescent says that there's a Pevsner Architectural Guide that might cover this. Do you have access to such things? Uncle G (talk) 23:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• Pevsner Architectural Guides are not available online as far as I know. The one for Baker's Cross (I think) is this one: Pevsner, Nikolaus (1983), North East and East Kent (Pevsner Architectural Guides: Buildings of England) (2nd ed.), Yale University Press, ISBN 9780300096132
• You may find Heritage Gateway useful - 179 listed buildings within 1 sq km of Cranbrook :)
• Incidentally, I really do not understand the mentality (even WP:AGF) of the deletionists who insist on making work for other editors. I looked at the Baker's Cross article at the time of the deletion proposal (Old Baker's Cross article) and whilst I accept it looked very stubby, even a brief google search shows up some notable sources and besides, I always thought settlements did not have to prove notability. I am sick of such deletionists (end of rant)

--Senra (Talk) 23:40, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm still looking for more information on the several listed buildings. In the meanwhile ⇓ … Uncle G (talk) 16:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

St Dunstan's Church

• Hudson, Alfred W. (1922). A short history of St. Dunstan's Church Cranbrook. W.T. Simmons.
• John Britton, Edward Wedlake Brayley, James Norris Brewer, Joseph Nightingale, John Evans, John Hodgson, Francis Charles Laird, Frederic Shoberl, John Bigland, Thomas Rees, Thomas Hood, and John Harris (1808). "Cranbrook". The Beauties of England and Wales, or, Delineations, topographical, historical, and descriptive, of each county. Vol. 8. Vernor and Hood. p. 1206.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Sprange, Jasper (1780). "Cranbrook". The Tunbridge Wells guide. J. Sprange. pp. 238–239.

Whilst looking for listed buildings I turned up more church material for you. See Cranbrook, Kent#History for what we have at the moment. We don't even have the "Baker's Gaol" information. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 16:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

• I guess I am being slow here but what is the question? --Senra (Talk) 17:00, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
  • There's no question; just some pointers, in case you were interested in Yet Another Church. ☺ I came across this when reading the listed building information and looking for what more there was on "Bloody Baker". Uncle G (talk) 20:26, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Not yet had a deep look but the phrase "Bloody Baker" that appears in the article seems suspect after having found this (none RS) --Senra (Talk) 22:07, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
      • I'll see your jewellery guide, and I'll raise you not only Arthur Irwin Dasent and Jennifer Westwood, as cited, but also the journal of the Kent Archaeological Society and a local history book:
        • Baker, F.V. (1926). "Notes on the life of Sir John Baker of Sissinghurst". Archæologia cantiana. 38. Kent Archaeological Society: 22. Sir John Baker is traditionally remembered in Cranbrook as " Bloody Baker," […]
        • Martin, W. Stanley (1896). A Glimpse at Cranbrook — The Town of the Weald. Post Office, Cranbrook: E. J. Holmes. pp. 79–80. Sir John Baker […] he was heartily hated in the district of Cranbrook, where he is still execrated by the name "Bloody Baker" on account of […]
      • ☺

        Actually, what you've found isn't a jewellery guide, but one of the unfortunate things about the World Wide Web: bad information with faulty provenance, used for advertising purposes. That story that you pointed to is not by "JJKent, Inc" at all. It is in fact a lightly edited version of the account found in the 1859 Notes and Queries, already cited in the article as NQ1859. It's on pages 138–139. It's debunked on pages 140–141, and on page 142 it's pointed out that John, not Richard, Baker was known as "Bloody Baker".

        Uncle G (talk) 23:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

• Yes I really need to be more selective. I use noscript on Firefox so I do not see the advertising that goes with such sites - just the content. Thanks for letting me know --Senra (Talk) 23:55, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Roddon PR

Hi Senra. I responded on the PR page earlier to specific questions. The article looks better to me, but I'm too pressed for time to do another line-by-line review. However, I notice in a quick run-though that the article needs proofing. For example, "6 kilometres (3.7 mi) north-east-east of Ely," is not something I've seen before. Is "north-east-east" a real word? For another example, the helpful Note 10 says in part, "allowed the peat to dry out and waste away leaving beds of less that 1 metre". "That" should be "than". My suggestion would be to closely proof the article and then seek another editor (a friend perhaps) who has not ever seen it before to review it as a whole. Finetooth (talk) 20:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

North-east-east is a word (in marine navigation at least) but in any case, simplified it to north-east. I fixed the typo that to than too. I will ask Malleus to have a look, thank you for your input --Senra (Talk) 21:56, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

It's East North East, surely? - JVG (talk) 17:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

actually we are both wrong! My intention was 022.5 degrees which is north-north-east. My bad --Senra (Talk) 17:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Cambridgeshire

I suspect you might be interested in this proposal. Personally, I don't think it would work if it stays limited to Cambs only as the University would swamp it, but a WP:ANGLIA would be far more viable (we have a lot of decent-quality Ipswich articles thanks to The Rambling Man, while I have a lot of Norfolk articles lined up on my to-do list). – iridescent 21:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads-up. I need to do a little personal research first before joining any new project such as East Anglia, Cambridgeshire or anything else. My immediate thought is that project East Anglia owns others project such as Norfolk, Cambridgeshire. So really, East Anglia needs setting up first which immediately spawns the counties. However, the previous project proposal appears not to have got off the ground and this one is likely to go the same way too. I just need to understand for myself what other county/regional projects have been succesful (and what others have failed) so I can comment with a properly reasoned support/comment/oppose as appropriate --Senra (Talk) 23:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

In my experience (although someone may pop up to correct me), the successful single-county projects are generally the major metropolitan areas (Greater London, Greater Manchester, Merseyside; for some reason West Midlands doesn't see much activity despite its size and importance) and Yorkshire, which obviously has a much higher population than most counties. There is a precedent for a successful "smaller county" project in WikiProject Somerset, though. There's a table of county projects ranked by activity here. – iridescent 08:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Wintours

• User talk:Malleus Fatuorum#Thomas Wintour

You might be interested. Uncle G (talk) 23:26, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Power

East Anglia's no longer EDF apparently; changed on Friday? EDF's website points queries to [2] for whom there's no wiki page yet. I expect a load of articles will need updating to reflect the change... I was looking up stuff for trying to resume work on the Burwell article, pretty sure it'd affect Little Thetford, etc too... - JVG (talk) 19:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Yups. According to UK Power Networks press release "UK Power Networks is the name of the new company that will take over the running of electricity distribution to more than eight million customers in London, the East of England and the South East" and "EDF Energy will provide additional help during the transition for up to 18 months to make sure there’s a smooth handover." --Senra (Talk) 22:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Wiltshire and Domesday

• Kington St Michael (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

So it's not Cambridgeshire. But it has a church. And an abbey. (And Easton Piers/Pierse/Percy/Piercy.) Perhaps you or your lurkers could help out Rodhullandemu with some confused Domesday history. See User talk:Rodhullandemu#Copyright violation for sources. Uncle G (talk) 08:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Requests for feedback.

Hi Senra, I know you have helped out here before and hoped I might be able to persuade you to do so once again. One of the regular helpers, Chzz is currently taking a break so things are getting pretty busy. If you can just knock off one or two that will be a help. Regards--Ykraps (talk) 16:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Churches in Suffolk this time

• Catholic Church in Sudbury, Suffolk (AfD discussion)

For your information. As I said, I for one would probably start from scratch, with different text, with probably a different scope, and certainly with a title that actually named the subject. Uncle G (talk) 17:00, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

It's listed Grade II.--Peter I. Vardy (talk) 18:19, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

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