User talk:Onceinawhile/Archive 5

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DYK for Schick models of Jerusalem

On 8 November 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Schick models of Jerusalem, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that 150-year-old wooden models of the Temple Mount (example pictured) are important to archaeology, as their creator was the last European ever permitted to survey its foundations? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Schick models of Jerusalem. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Schick models of Jerusalem), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:01, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 29,328 views (1,222.0 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of November 2023 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:27, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

CongratulationsDavidbena (talk) 05:07, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Gate identified

Thought you might be interested in the resolution of an old mystery. So this: [1] (near the bottom), helped resolve it. It's a remnant of the original Khan Younis. Poliocretes (talk) 11:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Poliocretes: well done – great news. Do you think it is the same gate as shown in the main picture at ar:قلعة برقوق? It looks thinner. Also pinging Zero0000. This calls for a new English article on the topic. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:47, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

More pictures: [2] [3] The second one is a perfect match to this article in Levant (which is incidentally not cited at Khan Yunis but probably should be). There it is described as the Khan giving the name "Khan Yunis", after one of the high officials of Sultan Barquq. Zero^talk 03:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you today for your share of Sarcophagus of Eshmunazar II, "about the sarcophagus of Eshmunazar II, a Phoenician King of Sidon from the 6th century BC. It was unearthed in 1855 in an ancient necropolis near Sidon, Lebanon. The sarcophagus is notable for its long Phoenician inscriptions, which provide insights into the king's identity, lineage, and achievements, including his involvement in the conquest of Egypt. The sarcophagus is of Egyptian manufacture. Its discovery sparked enthusiasm for archaeological research in the Levant."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Opinion

I wanted to ask your opinion about something, viz. a biblical verse (in Deuteronomy 17:15) touching on a nation's leadership, and which, needless to say, Jews for thousands of years have always held as representing an eternal truth:

"You may indeed set a king over you whom the Lord your God will choose. One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother" (End Quote).

Could it be that a leader of a nation (whether King, President, Prime-Minister) that has the same religion and mindset of those of his blood relations whom he governs (although there may be other subjects abiding in that kingdom having a separate language and identity, such as the Grecians who resided in Roman-era Palestine in the 1st century CE) is more likely to be kindly disposed and forthcoming to his own people, and by whom he has been elected? In other words, a foreign ruler is apt to be less sympathetic towards his subjects. The question is a general one and should only be answered in general terms. For the sake of argument, let's say that there are some people who consider themselves as progressives and who think of the biblical law as antiquated and "outdated," or are atheists, should their progressive views cancel out the view of others who wish to abide by these old and time-proven biblical laws?Davidbena (talk) 02:10, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Translating to modern terms, the question becomes “what is wrong with military occupation”.

Rulers normally rule via an army made up of their people (per your quote: "One from among your brothers"). Even for the most autocratic rulers, that provides a check-and-balance, as the army is recruited from the people over whom it rules.

When the army is ruling over a people it considers alien, and sometimes dehumanized, that check and balance no longer exists. Over time the dehumanization increases, the relationship becomes unnatural, and the barrier to immoral and depraved behavior is removed.

That is why military occupations are intended to be temporary. The Israeli military occupation is by far the longest in the world, and appears to be by far the most dehumanizing.

And, per the "One from among your brothers", for those who consider the Bible to be the word of God, we can also agree that long-term military occupation is unholy.

PS – the Bible does not condone victim blaming, so a response suggesting that the Israeli government is not responsible for almost five decades of occupation will waste time.

Onceinawhile (talk) 07:03, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

As you know, I am prevented from responding on Wikipedia to anything related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.Davidbena (talk) 22:51, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of 1948 Arab–Israeli War (disambiguation)

The article 1948 Arab–Israeli War (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:01, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Modern Jewish historiography

On 25 November 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Modern Jewish historiography, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that dei Rossi's work on modern Jewish historiography was banned by Venetian rabbis, but he obtained imprimatur from a Catholic? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jewish historiography. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Modern Jewish historiography), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

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Your recent edit

Hi. This edit summary shows a failure to grasp the meaning of WP:ONUS. "The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content". Please self revert. Dovidroth (talk) 08:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Invitation

Hello Onceinawhile, we need experienced volunteers.

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Sent by NPP Coordination using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Your deletion of my comments was in bad faith. AFAIK, I'm supposed to reach out to the author to discuss articles they have authored

Article 20 league of Nations

International Affairs (Royal Institute of International Affairs 1931-1939)

Vol. 15, No. 5 (Sep. - Oct., 1936), pp. 684-699 (16 pages)

Published By: Oxford University Press

and

https://twailr.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Noura-Erakat-John-Reynolds-TWAILR-Dialogues-International-Law-and-the-Question-of-Palestine.pdf

John: Much of the conceptual debates around states of exception have grappled with the relationship between norm and exception, and have theorised the state of exception as a type of liminal space that is both within and beyond the realm of law. In colonial contexts though, the law has typically been front and centre in the construction of exceptional circumstances and the execution of exceptional governance measures. Where does the exception that you are describing here fall in this sense?

Noura (Erakat): Far from establishing a legal void, the sovereign exception designated Palestine as a sui generis mandate and justified the creation of new law where no other law could apply. It was on this basis that the Permanent Mandate Commission rejected Palestinian legal arguments that the designation of Palestine as a Jewish settlement violated multiple articles of the League of Nations Charter. The Palestinian argument included most notably Article 20, which prohibited a Mandatory Power (Britain) from undertaking an obligation (establishing a Jewish national home in Palestine) in contravention of the terms of the Covenant (ushering a native population to independence). Though the Permanent Mandate Commission was vexed, it ultimately concluded that the Mandatory Power was obliged to accomplish both goals, and that the more urgent task was facilitating Jewish settlement. Later, when the UN Special Committee on Palestine considered a solution to the Question of Palestine, it recognized that the Mandate for Palestine violated the principle of self-determination but that this was consistent even with the League of Nations Covenant which did not command the ‘recognition of certain communities of the Turkish empire as independent nations’ but only permitted such recognition, and the League chose not to recognize Palestinians as a nation in order to fulfill the terms of the Balfour Declaration. This was a legal analysis, not merely a political dictate.

Biolitblue (talk) 22:07, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

@Biolitblue: I moved your comments to Talk:Mandate for Palestine. That page has 206 separate authors - this is a collaborative project.

I suggest you also move your new comment above to the same place. I will not address it here. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Weaponization of antisemitism

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A tag has been placed on Weaponization of antisemitism requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person, a group of people, an individual animal, an organization (band, club, company, etc.), web content, or an organized event that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Notification of ANI discussion started by another editor

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Constantly deleted content without discussion. Thank you.. I'm notifying you as the editor who started the thread has persistently refused to do so. Nil Einne (talk) 10:20, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Sakiv (talk) 17:23, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Cartography by continent has been nominated for merging

Category:Cartography by continent has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 06:29, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Justification for ARBPIA tag

Hi, I saw that you added the ARBPIA tag to Weaponization of antisemitism article here: [4].

I would like to edit the article, but cannot because this tag was added. I think that the tag was added erroneously. Per WP:PIA under "General sanctions upon related content", When disruptive edits are being made to such content, any editor may invoke ARBPIA General Sanctions for that content ... Editors should apply the ARBPIA General Sanctions templates to related content only when disruption creates a need for additional administrative tools.

I looked through the article editing history, and I couldn't find any examples of editing that could be considered WP:DISRUPTIVE and merit adding the ARBPIA tag. Could you please point me at examples of edits that you considered WP:DISRUPTIVE that would merit adding the ARBPIA tag? Happy to hear your thoughts and see if we can reach an understanding on this. Thanks! spintheer (talk) 20:43, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi Spintheer, the banner requires (and states) simply that "This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic." It is normal course for in-scope articles to have this banner. If you propose your edit on the talk page it can then be added to the article by an extended-confirmed editor. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:14, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I would go down that route, except the current WP:ARBECR policy makes it impossible to make any edits in the talk page beyond strictly edit requests. This means no consensus-building is allowed, which really limits the range of edits that can be made. Therefore, I want to have the ARBPIA tag removed.

Would it be ok if we do that? spintheer (talk) 05:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

There is no need to remove it is there? It is there to inform people that anything they do there related to ARBPIA is covered by the restrictions. The article isn't EC protected is it? If the subject that requires consensus building on the talk page is unrelated to ARBPIA the template and the restrictions are not relevant to that discussion. If the subject under discussion is related to ARBPIA it needs to comply with the WP:ARBECR restrictions. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:41, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

As it stands the entire article is subject to Arbpia, if it were only partial, there is a separate template for that. As I said on the article talk page, in my view this article should fall under Arbpia, therefore a CT and WP:ARBECR applies. I second Onceinawhile suggestion that spintheer make properly constructed edit requests and EC editors will consider whether to implement them or not. Another idea is to leave the CT area and edit elsewhere until 500 edits are achieved. Selfstudier (talk) 11:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

My view is also that the article is subject to Arbpia in its entirety. That implies the editing restrictions, which wouldn't change if the banner was removed. Zero^talk 12:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I guess you are referring to the {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement|relatedcontent=yes}} template. It's conceivable I suppose that an editor would like to propose expanding the coverage of the article into areas that are unambiguously outside the scope of ARBPIA. I assume it would be fine for them to do that on the talk page. And if the scope expanded the template could be changed. But Spintheer should appreciate that it's not a negotiation. They should only participate in ARBPIA related matters via edit requests or after they have been granted the extended confirmed privilege. As you suggest, there are millions of articles to work on in the meantime. Sean.hoyland (talk) 12:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

This "broadly construed" business is an unfortunate and unproductive state of affairs. There is no evidence of editing in the Weaponization of antisemitism article that could be considered WP:DISRUPTIVE. There are disagreements between editors and appropriate dispute resolution, but nothing that could be considered disruptive by policy. You could argue that this is because the ARBPIA tag was added to the article, but as we know from other articles with ARBPIA tags, disruptive editing many times continues nonetheless. The end result is that the article is closed off to 99% of editors (significant cost imo, see WP:5P3) without proof that disruption is reduced (supposed benefit). spintheer (talk) 02:37, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Again, the editing restrictions are not dependent on whether there is a tag (though it can make a difference to the outcome if someone is taken to a noticeboard for violating the restrictions). The editing restrictions were imposed by the Arbitration Committee and only that committee can change them. Zero^talk 03:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

> the editing restrictions are not dependent on whether there is a tag

I think that they are in borderline articles like Weaponization of antisemitism, which is conceptually broader than the specific ways that it applies in the Arab-Israeli conflict. The article is called "Weaponization of antisemitism", and not "Weaponization of antisemitism in the Arab-Israeli conflict". Putting a "primary article of ARBPIA" tag on the entire article is an editorial decision which needlessly excludes editors. It is not a committee decision. spintheer (talk) 16:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, as a non EC editor, you are not even entitled to an opinion on the matter and your persistence here could itself be viewed as disruptive. Selfstudier (talk) 16:57, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, I am entitled to any opinion I wish, but I'm assuming you mean that I can't write about it anywhere on Wikipedia? That is news to me. Could you please point me at the policy that backs up these statements? spintheer (talk) 17:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:ARBECR (for about the fifth time). Selfstudier (talk) 17:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see how it can be interpreted this way (even meta conversations). Well argued, but what a chilling effect that creates. Way to prove my point about WP:5P3 or lack thereof. Yikes.

Ok, I'll drop the subject for now. spintheer (talk) 17:22, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Other ways of looking at it include

• "broadly construed" is necessary because of the extraordinary levels of deception and dishonesty employed by editors unable to comply with the Wikimedia Foundation Universal Code of Conduct, especially the 'Unacceptable behaviour' section that prohibits editors from "Systematically manipulating content to favour specific interpretations of facts or points of view...".
• Given that there are millions of articles to edit, and a WP:MAKINGEREQ process, having to meet EC requirements has little to no cost for people who want to contribute to Wikipedia, but it does impose a cost on people employing deception, a cost that benefits Wikipedia because they need to make 500 edits.
• If someone is so keen to edit a specific article out of millions, to the extent that they want to lift ARBCOM restrictions put in place to defend Wikipedia against bad actors, it might indicate that perhaps it is one of the articles they should be cautious about editing because they may have a strong POV on the issue. Sean.hoyland (talk) 10:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I'd respond but as above, it seems that I can't. To be continued I guess. spintheer (talk) 17:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention)

Hello! Your submission of South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Z1720 (talk) 02:21, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Pantheon obelisk moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Pantheon obelisk. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it has no sources and it needs more sources to establish notability. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. JoeNMLC (talk) 20:45, 1 March 2024 (UTC)