User talk:Noyster/Archive 16

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In response,

Noyster - Yes, this is very helpful. I hope I'm even responding in the correct way to your message. This is all very new to me and I'm just learning how to navigate in Wikipedia

I appreciate your feedback and will review the article further before submitting. I think Norwegian Wool definitely needs a Wikipedia entry but review it to make sure it's not too promotional. Thanks! MJC6437 (talk) 16:24, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

What does it mean?

What does it mean when I get a message that says the following when I try to save a page edit on a live page? "Error saving data to server: Empty server response." MJC6437 (talk) 16:29, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Noël Coward

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Noël Coward. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Harassment

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Harassment. Legobot (talk) 04:30, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Amedeo Schiattarella

Hi, thank you for your help. I am just trying to publish a biography on Architect Amedeo Schiattarella as I did on the italian version of wikipedia. Contents are exaclty as the ones in italian so I can't see why it has been published in italian but it won't be in english... please can yo help? Thank, Marina Marina51 (talk) 12:42, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Marina. I see you have submitted your draft article to Articles for Creation, and it will be reviewed for publication in due course. Policies on the Wikipedias in different languages are not always the same. While waiting, of course, you could if you wish continue to attend to some of the suggestions I placed on your your talk page: Noyster (talk), 17:09, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Regarding reply earlier

Hi Noyster!

Thank you for resolving the earlier issues (along with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:K6ka). As to your suggestion, I have signed up before (not on this IP Address however) but I often find that I lose my account details rather quickly (as I only have good knowledge of a few subjects), hence why I do not log in to edit often. I am aware the ClueBot (and human editors) are predisposed to think it is vandalism, especially with this particular IP Address I am typing from (search it up if you want). I do understand checking the pages for vandalism is a rather time-consuming (and never-ending) job and I do appreciate the efforts. I also appreciate you replying back.

Thanks for your attention.

Regards, User at 131.170.239.14 13:54, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Can you help verify translations of articles from Spanish

Hello Noyster,

Would you be able to help evaluate the accuracy of translations of Wikipedia articles from Spanish to English Wikipedia?

File:Language icon.svg

This would involve evaluating a translated article on the English Wikipedia by comparing it to the original Spanish article, and marking it "Pass" or "Fail" based on whether the translation faithfully represents the original. Here's the reason for this request:

There are a number of articles on English Wikipedia that were created as machine translations from different languages including Spanish, using the Content Translation tool, sometimes by users with no knowledge of the source language. The config problem that allowed this to happen has since been fixed, but this has left us with a backlog of articles whose accuracy of translation is suspect or unknown, including some articles translated from Spanish. In many cases, other editors have come forward later to copyedit and fix any English grammar or style issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the translation is accurate, as factual errors from the original translation may remain. To put it another way: Good English is not the same as good translation.

If you can help out, that would be great. Here's a sample of the articles that need checking:

• Cadenus_and_Vanessa
• Stevia_cultivation_in_Paraguay

All you have to do, is compare the English article to the Spanish article, and mark it "Pass" or "Fail" (templates {{Pass}} and {{Fail}} may be useful). (Naturally, if you feel like fixing an inaccurate translation and then marking it "Pass", that's even better, but it isn't required.)

If you can help, please let me know. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elinruby (talk • contribs) 16:54, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Elinruby You forgot to say who "me" is...

I'll aim to look at a few of these articles but can't do much until mid-next week. Could you please clarify

• Where exactly would you like us to insert the "Pass" or "Fail" annotations
• Where are other articles to be found from which this sample was taken?

Thanks: Noyster (talk), 11:07, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

@Noyster: thank you for your interest. I apologize for the malformed request; I was very tired and trying to help out @Mathglot: without quite reading the documentation for his template as well as I should have apparently ;) There has been an attempt to sort by language here but it looks like Spanish has not been done yet. The main page is here; feel free to pitch in anywhere you like. There are a lot of articles in Spanish that look important. The with Spanish articles is sheer volume, primarily. We do have myself an another editor who read Spanish with some effort, but no native speakers so it is possible nuances are being missed , despite our care. I have been exposed to the language for long periods, personally, and speak really good French which has led me into occitan, etc, but no formal training in the grammar. I would never attempt to translate into Spanish but can with an effort usually read it. I'd just be happier if a Spanish speaker checked my own work, personally, although I am quite careful and believe it is correct. The one convention is to enclose the article titles that should be kept (and possibly get some more attention too) in strike tags (<s></s>. The criterion is whether it would be easier to re-translate the article from scratch. Any comments about article topic, quality or deficiencies (ie, needs references, that's a big one...) are helpful in terms of getting the article adopted by someone who will improve it, if it needs that. Also, Mathglot's regex is looking for a language tage like "fr;"... I am not sure if it catches "French", for example. Elinruby (talk) 16:50, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

@Elinruby: Yes, the Spanish list hasn't been created, but since you asked, the regex catches "French" and the French flag symbol, and delimited fr, but the difficulty is in things like: "[[Some article]] - bg; oil painting by French master" i.e., a Bulgarian translation where the word "French" is in there somehow. A cleverer regex would trap those, but it takes longer to develop, and haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll create a first shot at a Spanish list for you and add it to the page, but it will have some false positives (non-Spanish ones) at the outset, which you'll have to weed out by hand. Gimme a couple of minutes, and you should have it.

thanks that is helpful information Elinruby (talk) 22:15, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

You can put the {{pass}} or {{fail}} right in the post above. Or, I suppose, in the list of Spanish articles not yet posted there; t.b.d.) For the "Fails", if you want to add a couple of words about why they failed, please do, but it isn't required. The By-language page is here. Mathglot (talk) 22:00, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, initial list (410!) is in place; no doubt plenty of false positives, and not numbered with CXT numbering yet, but it's a start. Noyster, if you do the first 205 of them, I'm sure Elinruby will do the second 205.^jk Mathglot (talk) 22:10, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Noyster, see for example how Hollomis (talk · contribs) has been doing it. Add @Elinruby: Mathglot (talk) 00:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Yah, Hollomis has it down pretty well. The article list for Spanish (and all other major, and most minor languages) are now based on the lang-tag in the database, and not on a regex that can pick up false positives scraping WP:CXT/PTR. As to "where" to record assessments: preference would be here, inline, using {{pass}} and {{fail}} (with optional comments why it failed, if you wish) and a {{ping}}. You could update directly at WP:CXT/PTR/BL#es articles I suppose, but you'd have to be a bit careful so as not to duplicate effort with someone else, as we don't have a "checkout" method yet, it's only recorded in what invitations got sent out. OTOH, if you have a flair for this type of organization, maybe you can come up with a better method. Current methodology is explained (not fully) at the top of the page. Maybe if you want to "check out" some directly from that page, then gray them out, or strike them, or put them in a subsection with an {{in use}} or something that will discourage anyone else from double-dipping. There's one icon that's kind of good for this, lemme go find it... okay, like one of these:  In progress {{in progress}},  Checking... {{checking}},  Investigating... {{investigating}}; I think if you placed one of those on each item you want to grab, it would wave anyone else off from working on it. Adding a sig would help us track you down, if you forgot about it. Otherwise, just do it inline here (the usual method so far, but I'm open to suggestions), and we'll copy the results back there.

And, if you want to join us in sending out invitations and/or collating results, you'd be more than welcome. Here's my latest batch of invites, for example. Each person sending them out multiplies the productivity factor, not to mention gains us access to language skills we don't have, so I'd almost rather have you do invites, but hey, for what we're getting paid, you should do what you want. Hey, maybe I should make a new template, "Would you like to be an inviter?" And then, if we get too many responses to that one, we can have another one: "Would you like to be an inviter-inviters?" Where will it all end... ;-) @Elinruby: as well. Mathglot (talk) 02:06, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Wikipedia policies and guidelines

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Legobot (talk) 04:32, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film. Legobot (talk) 04:33, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

re Silvana van Dijk

Hi There

I received a message in regards to a page ( silvana van Dijk, musician ) i want to set up for Visions of a Nomad of which my partner and I are the founders of, we need to have it ready in a few weeks time as we are about to set off to perform a major concert at Nisville Int Jazz Festival, its important someone guides me in the right direction . I only just started it but got a message about not being able to wrote about yourself?? No one else is going to do it for us as I am the person in charge of all our promo , I am new to wilkipedia, please advise me where I should write under ??

K regards

Silvana van Dijk www.visionsofanomad.com www.arcdreamingaboriginaldancetheatre.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Silvanavandijk (talk • contribs) 09:06, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Silvana van Dijk Sorry but I do need to explain that the purpose of Wikipedia is not to help anyone with their promotion. Instead, our purpose is to disseminate reliable, objective information about what we consider "notable" topics. Your statement that you think no-one else will write about you is an indication that you may not, as yet, have achieved our standards of "notability".

In broad terms these standards are given here – requiring "significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject". More detailed standards for musicians are shown here. If you do satisfy some of these criteria, you would need to assemble references to sufficient independent sources to verify this, and submit a neutrally-written draft article (not your own User page).

Alternatively, if you have not already done so, you may like to try some of the other outlets we list here. With regards: Noyster (talk), 09:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, had a look at the criteria for bands,musicians, artists, we fill at least 10 of those criteria mentioned so how do we go about it from here?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.39.85.94 (talk) 10:29, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Silvana van Dijk What you propose is termed here as "conflict-of-interest" editing and is strongly discouraged. Therefore, I am not disposed to help you further with your publicity. Please pay careful attention to our policy on conflict of interest. Other guidance is already linked in my reply just above. Please address any further queries to open forums such as the Teahouse.

Finally, if you wish to engage further with Wikipedia, I would advise following our communication norms, in particular logging-in to your account each time you edit, and signing your posts on discussion pages: Noyster (talk), 11:21, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Hal Sparks

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Moving forward

You will be very interested in this and may certainly wish to comment there. I hope it's not going to result in another round of delaying tactics. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:48, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done I have pointed out that – contrary to statements made – the issue was recently raised at Village Pump (although not perhaps in an ideal way). It may, however, be difficult to resist calls for a fresh RfC in view of the massive turnover in active community participants there must have been since 2011. Such an RfC may indeed result in a more solid consensus, if those like me who arrived more recently are prepared to adopt a more nuanced interpretation of the founding principles: Noyster (talk), 08:52, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

ZWipf response

Good day to you and thank you for your notification. The article is a group effort. I am not Zoey Wipf password is lost and the sign in email info is lost. We really cannot it find back since the last hurricane passed through here and we were months offline plus a hack! We used the name so it is similar however it is not the same person, just of the same three trying to work on this article started by Zoey. We are trying but the article is still not good enough. We lost a lot of info with Zoey's system hacked in December, also all the recommendation info in that account on how to improve the article. She has no time anymore and actually, some of the work was each time deleted after we all really spent days on it, without a word to us, so also lost the interest. We are still at it, trying. We also sent a forgot password but we as well forgot what email account was used back then. VanessaZWipf (talk) 20:23, 18 July 2017 (UTC))

Thank you for responding Vanessa and sorry to hear of your misfortunes. The first thing I should point out is that officially only one person should use any one account on Wikipedia (by our username policy), so if there are three of you editing Wikipedia then each of you should register an individual account.

Now about the draft article, presently at User:Zoey Wipf/Shebah III Of Kasambu 'Ra House. Sorry to say this but I found this draft article totally unreadable. Think of it from the point of view of a reader not familiar with the topic, hoping to find out: Who is this article about? – when born and where? – what are the main events of her life? – in what ways is she notable? You can do this much better: I can understand perfectly well what you have written to me above, and I think you need to start over with the article, making something much shorter, more clearly written and sticking to facts about the person herself supported by independent references (that is, from sources not connected to the person you are writing about). Cut all grandiose phrasing like Epic Paradigm Shift in Ancient World Lines. Some of our articles about other monarchs such as Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands could be a model for you.

You may do best to start again with a blank page in the userspace of one of your own accounts (for example, User:ZWipf/Shebah III). When you think you have something that could be accepted as an article, follow the process in Your first article to get it reviewed. If you have queries on the way, post here again and I'll try to help, or you could ask at the Teahouse where they specialize in helping newer editors. Good luck: I hope you succeed with your project as it promises to be an interesting topic for Wikipedia readers everywhere: Noyster (talk), 09:28, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the clear responses. May I clarify we do not use one account to enter and edit an article. Th other account is of Zoey that started the article then nature plus each time the deleted here without much clarity was disappointed so he stopped. I have my own account opened and working on it further directly instead of over the shoulder and research on information in support of the article. We had to delete so much it is indeed not clear anymore. Really thank you for your advice on doing a rewrite and how to go about it. That was all we needed to know, so we have a bit of direction. We will restart, and follow the information you gave. Again there is only 1 in the accounts and has only been 1 before in the account of her own working. All together no, at present, there is only one, me. Thank much. Vanessa ZWipf (talk) 04:31, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/RfC: Wikimedia referrer policy

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/RfC: Wikimedia referrer policy. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Leroy Homer request edit

Can you be able to upload information onto Leroy Homer's article regarding his supposed actions on board United Flight 93? Somebody keeps modifying the section about Homer's fate when United 93 was hijacked. This or these people, in the effort to make 'official' the cinematographic image of Homer opening the door and being stabbed by the hijackers and that Captain Dahl being the one who shouted "mayday", keep repeating like parrots, sources that don't even talk about such a thing, while they kept cancelling all the more reliable sources from other observations- including the testimony of Homer's wife Melodie, not one of the thousands of far-fetched accounts given by sources like "9-11 America Under Attack" - that Homer was the person who shouted "mayday" on the cockpit voice recorder, and possibly was even alive after the hijacking (notice: I say possibly, and indeed I tried to write in the article that Homer's actions are just what his wife believes, while these people use no actual sources and fictional books as facts). They deem all these accounts, including a testimony of Homer's wife, as "untrue", while the only certainly apocryphal accounts are those of Homer just being killed or that he and Dahl was removed from the cockpit and left in the back of the plane. And if we want to remain in theme of apocryphal accounts, let's talk about the sources (like "9-11 America Under Attack"), to which they desperately cling: it is a book that is completely inaccurate and fictional, that it is worse than any of the conspiracy theories that came in the wake of the tragedy. If you were to click on that source - you would agree it is not needed. Moreover, the other sources (the telegraph and ABC accounts) never mention a word that Homer was stabbed and killed during the hijacking: One more unjustified modify to that section and I will notify them for vandalism. Excuse me for being so rude but this has been repeated for nearly a month and without those people ever making a justification or asking anything, just erasing everything goes against what they state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.107.35 (talk) 21:18, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't recall having had any involvement with this topic, and don't propose immersing myself in it now – it doesn't appear that the precise sequence of events can ever be established with certainty. The talk pages of the articles concerned are available for further discussion of article content, and if issues cannot be resolved on talk pages, there are several options for dispute resolution. If you wish to engage further I would strongly recommend creating an account, as this will facilitate communication and give you a consistent identity for your interactions with Wikipedia and its editors. Please remember to sign your posts to discussion pages: Noyster (talk), 10:20, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

References

Hi Noyster, I was trying to edit the Reference List before, but I was not able to access it. How can I access it? Thanks.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcobosu (talk • contribs) 03:53 am, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

@Jmcobosu: A reference should usually be added as an inline citation at the place in the text where it is relevant. Then the {{reflist}} template makes it appear automatically in the list of references at the end of the article. Please see our beginner's guide to referencing, and don't forget to sign your posts to talk pages: Noyster (talk), 08:10, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Minhas

Hi, I'm not sure why you did this. The Minhas article was turned into a surname list precisely because information could not be sourced. You appear now to have dumped the same sort of info from some other article (perhaps added there by someone as a POV forking exercise?) Some of it reads like a copyright violation and the Tyagi source is notoriously unreliable. The original clan/tribe article was stubbed for a reason and, really, I see no need to recreate the mess, whether copied from another article or written (unsourced) from scratch.

Are you planning to source it? - Sitush (talk) 11:46, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, the material was present in Wikipedia already but in the wrong place, i.e. Timeline of 12th-century conversion of Hindu clans to Islam, while most of it had no relation to the 12th century. I recognise that only the opening paragraph is supported by references. I had a look in Google Books to see if there was any worthwhile support for the rest but I'm no expert in this field. I think at least the opening paragraph should be here somewhere, and it seemed to belong better in its own article about the clan, rather than in the set-index article about the surname. Some of the other clan sections in the "timeline" article are open to similar measures, but Minhas was far the longest: Noyster (talk), 11:59, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks. In that case, please can you revert all your changes and I will clean up the mess elsewhere. I've just been running through the series of "Timelines" and they're all WP:OR/WP:POV, and at least mostly created by a somewhat notorious, now inactive, POV-pusher - Intothefire (talk · contribs). We don't do this: if the stuff isn't sourced and it relates to an Indic clan or tribe, we bin it.

What was the Minhas article prior to your move literally had all that could be reliably sourced at the time and it isn't likely to improve. That's why it became more of a surname list. - Sitush (talk) 12:06, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Move of Minhas (surname) back to Minhas has been requested. (When you say revert all changes I presume you didn't want the content restored to the "timeline"): Noyster (talk), 13:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. There would be no point in moving the content back into the timeline because it isn't verifiable. Anyways, I've now redirected all of the by-century timelines to Timeline of Hindu clan conversions to Islam because every one of them suffered from the same problems - OR, not RS, POV etc. I was able to rescue one (Qaimkhani) for inclusion in what is left of that mess, after noting the sources I had already added ages ago to the clan article.

I'm not saying that Timeline of Hindu clan conversions to Islam can't be expanded. If that was the case then I'd nominate it for deletion. - Sitush (talk) 04:52, 3 August 2017 (UTC)