User talk:Mr KEBAB/Archive 18

Abingdon

Thank you for your explanation "it means that the rest of the word isn't transcribed". That makes sense, I'd just failed to find it on the IPA page. The rest of the name isn't pronounced either, I live near Abingdon and I've never heard anyone call it "Abingdon-on-Thames". Maproom (talk) 12:57, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

@Maproom: It's probably true, but what current IPA attempts to show is that the word Abingdon as pronounced in the name Abingdon-on-Thames bears only secondary stress, with the primary stress being on Thames, so that it has the same stress pattern as Newcastle upon Tyne (apart from having one syllable less). Mr KEBAB (talk) 03:56, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

I've never heard anyone say "Abingdon-on-Thames". But by analogy with "Walton-on-Thames", you must be right. Maproom (talk) 08:14, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Turkish phonology

In Turkish, there are three phonetical (close/mid/open) and two phonological (low/high) vowel heights. Hence, high/low is more correct as phonological low vowels encompass phonetical mid and open vowels. And no open vowel is an allophone of a mid vowel nor no mid vowel is an allophone of /a/. Erkinalp9035 (talk) 15:00, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@Erkinalp9035: They're not more correct. High and low are synonyms of close and open and it's not true that the former are phonological terms and the latter are phonetical terms. Both can be used in either way. No offense, but judging from your messages here, you should definitely read more on phonetics/phonology and IPA in general. I don't mean to be intrusive, but I think the IPA-4 userbox on your user page is potentially misleading to other Wikipedians. Even I wouldn't use it, at least not yet.

I don't understand the last sentence. Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:14, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

The last sentence was about limits of vocalic allophony in Turkish(open syllable/suffix laxing/lowering etc.). Erkinalp9035 (talk) 15:35, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@Erkinalp9035: I still don't understand. Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:37, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Sometimes, /e/ is lowered to [æ]. But you cannot lower it further to [a], because [a] is an allophone of /a/. Erkinalp9035 (talk) 15:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@Erkinalp9035: Oh, that's what you mean. But you said it yourself: There are only two phonological heights: high (close) and low (open) - the former have close and near-close allophones, whereas the latter have true-mid, open-mid and near-open (in the case of /e, ø, o/) or near-open and open (in the case of /a/) allophones. Also, phonology rarely concerns itself with allophones. I don't see a problem here. Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:58, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

You don't have to "win the argument"

...or convince someone that you are right. See WP:WINNING, WP:BITE, and WP:BEANS. If a user shows no particular sign of further disrupting the Wikipedia community, don't stimulate them. That's my two cents. Nardog (talk) 20:07, 18 May 2018 (UTC)