User talk:Innotata/Archive17

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July 2014

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The Bugle: Issue C, July 2014

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Jonas Vinther and Nick-D look at examples of electronic media Op-ed: TomStar81 on the shot heard around the world

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The Signpost: 23 July 2014

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July 2014

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• bodies of water including rivers, canals, ponds, and ditches. With a maximum length of only {{convert|12|cm|in}], the fish is of little commercial or dietary value to humans.<ref>{{fishbase|Salmophasia|phulo}}</

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Curve-billed Thrasher

Hi! I've recently logged onto Wikipedia, and I've noticed that you had stated that the Animal Diversity Web page has a disclaimer of it being unreliable. Would it be okay for me to just edit out the parts that I used with the page (it was only 4 locations) while I attempt to backtrack my other sources! Thanks for reading, and please contact me on my page when you get the chance, if not the Curve-billed Thrasher talk page itself! LeftAire (talk) 17:16, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

August 2014

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Lady Catherine Killigrew

added links pointing to Sir John Harington and Sir Nicholas Bacon

Penelope Carwardine

added links pointing to George Romney and Society of Artists

Jessie Cadell

added a link pointing to Orientalist

John Northall

added a link pointing to Loretto

Thomas Desaguliers

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Air Force Command

added a link pointing to High command

Air Force Forces Command

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Air Force Office

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Army Command (Germany)

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Military Music Center of the Bundeswehr

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Navy Command

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Navy Office (Germany)

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Streitkräfteamt

added a link pointing to High command

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August 2014

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• ''2SL'''), is one of the most senior [[admiral]]s of the [[United Kingdom|British]] [[Royal Navy]] (after the [[First Sea Lord]] and the [[Fleet Commander]] (until 2012, the [[Commander-in-Chief

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• Cabinet of Pakistan, hunts Sindh ibex at his ancestral village, although illegal in Pakistan.{{cn}] [[Baran, Pakistan|Baran]]]]

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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Wrap-up of some recent external reviews Interview: World War I editors Op-ed: TomStar81 on the outbreak of World War I

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The Signpost: 13 August 2014

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repeat of image deletion discussion

The same guy renominated an image for deletion a few days after it was closed as Keep. Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2014_August_16#File:Simpsons-Guy.jpg Those participating before, I'm contacting now. Dream Focus 21:17, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thank you for expanding all those {{Cite doi}} templates in 68 Cygni while the bot is malfunctioning! StringTheory11 (t • c) 00:32, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome! I didn't do much…if I'm a tireless contributor there's better examples ;) —innotata 03:22, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Iago sparrow

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:55, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 20 August 2014

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The Signpost: 27 August 2014

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September 2014

A pie for you!

Thanks for creating articles on the various voice actresses on Love Live!. For your efforts, here's a pie (or should I say Pile?) Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:06, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! (I just made Pile's, though, someone else created two recently.) —innotata 16:32, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

I would send you a pie too. Pai-chan is mine tho. By the way, Wikipedia worries too much about spam. I'm still getting CAPTCHAs, is there any way to stop them? ServanteDeFeu (talk) 07:04, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

@ServanteDeFeu: Heh. Unfortunately, I don't think so. Thanks for your help on the article though, it should be ready for Did you know with a little more. —innotata 07:13, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

FA congratulations

Just a quick note to congratulate you on the promotion of Sind sparrow to FA status recently. If you would like to see this (or any other FA) appear as "Today's featured article" soon (either on a particular date or on any available date), please nominate it at the requests page. If you'd like to see an FA appear on a particular date in the next year or so, please add it to the "pending" list. In the absence of a request, the article may end up being picked at any time (although with about 1,302 articles waiting their turn at present, there's no telling how long – or short! – the wait might be). If you'd got any TFA-related questions or problems, please let me know. Bencherlite^Talk 13:41, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Hey

I ended up making an account anyway. CAPTCHAs are annoying. Also I copied your page shamelessly ServanteDeFeu (talk) 06:03, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Commonwealth English in use

Where has Wikiproject birds decided to use commonwealth English for all bird articles, including North America? ((i.e. Wood Duck)...I thought prevailing though was Commonwealth English in the Nearctic (except for British trusts, territories and protectorates) and American English in the Nearctic (except for American trusts, territories and protectorates)....Pvmoutside (talk) 05:47, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

According to WP:ENGVAR, unless topics have strong national ties, you use the national variety first used. It should not be a rule that we change all North American bird articles to U.S. English. That said, I don't care myself if you change it in this particular case, though others might, just do so consistently. —innotata 06:08, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

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Alexander Cameron (1781–1850)

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Spam

Doschadleus was doing nothing more than adding links to his own website. He was blocked for spamming. Why are you going back and reverting the removals? Helpsome (talk) 14:11, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Maybe they're a contributor to the site, but it's put out by an academic organisation, and it's an incredibly useful resource. It's not spam. Our policy page on spam doesn't say anything about having to remove links that aren't commercial, questionably useful, or such, if they are mass added. So, can you let me restore them for all the weaver articles? Now that I know about it, I'd like to add to any weaver articles that don't have it. —innotata 14:15, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The first sentence of WP:SPAM states: There are three main types of spam on Wikipedia. These are: advertisements masquerading as articles; external link spamming; and adding references with the aim of promoting the author or the work being referenced. There is no loophole for being non-commercial. WP:ADV states that you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent—even if Wikipedia guidelines seem to imply that it may otherwise be linked Again, there is no loophole for being non-commercial.

WP:ELNO states that links to be avoided include Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article. Is it not true that there is no information on that site beyond what each article would contain where they to become featured articles? If the information is important, add content and use it as a reference. Mass adding external links doesn't make articles better. Helpsome (talk) 14:24, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, there is, there's information on populations and lots of photos, among other things, that couldn't be in featured articles. So, they don't go against that suggestion, and none of the articles on weavers are featured articles, so they're even more useful to readers in our existing wiki. The pages on spam don't say that links must be removed, and cannot be restored by third-party editors. That would be silly and unconstructive. So I'm going to go ahead and add them to the weaver articles. —innotata 16:55, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The fact that they aren't featured articles doesn't mean we should ignore WP:ENLO it means you should work towards making them featured articles. Respectfully, did you bother to read WP:SPAM? Under the section entitled "Tagging articles with spam or prone to spam" it states If articles have spam, and you haven't the time or ability to remove it, you can tag them... I had the time to remove them so I did. Frankly, I'm not sure how you mass reverted those removals wouldn't qualify as spamming. We can take it to an administrator board if you would like. Helpsome (talk) 17:05, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

There might be a difference in Wikipedia philosophies here, but I assume we should make articles as useful as possible to editors at any given time, whether that's by expanding articles substantially—which I have done a lot, and plan to do with some of the weavers—or by adding useful external resources in the interim. And as useful as guidelines can be, we shouldn't let them get in the way of improving Wikipedia. Plus, I would add the Weaver Watch links on articles like chestnut-crowned sparrow-weaver and red-headed fody even if I brought them to FA status, for the nest information and media, etc. Feel free to bring it up with others, there's nothing problematic with making sure articles have the most useful possible external resources. —innotata 17:17, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure on what basis you think mass reverting over 50 instances of spam wouldn't classify as improper. Helpsome (talk) 17:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm not doing it knee-jerk: I'd previously noticed the site's helpful, and I'll check at each article whether the link is worth including. I'm also adding links to articles that weren't linked before. It's quite routine, if one has found a very useful external site, to go and add it to topical articles. WikiProject Birds has had a bit of a project to link to BirdLife International and Internet Bird Collection pages. More generally, how is something improper if it isn't either unconstructive or disruptive to conversation? —innotata 17:28, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Roger Wheeler (British Army officer)

Hi - I am slightly confused by your move of Roger Wheeler (British Army officer) to Roger Neil Wheeler. My understanding of wikipedia's preference for names is to have a descriptor in brackets after the name - see MOS:DABPEOPLE. The Wheeler article was previously shown as Roger Neil Wheeler until Proteus moved it to Roger Wheeler (British Army officer) in August 2008: this seem a sensible move at the time. The same principle applies to Ian Gill (British Army officer). I personally think we should use Roger Wheeler (British Army officer) and Ian Gill (British Army officer) and would welcome your thoughts in this. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 20:35, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

WP:NCDAB says to use "natural disambiguation" where possible, so it's best to use people's middle names/initials so long as they are very often referred to by such. —innotata 20:41, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I understand your point but the guidance in MOS:DABPEOPLE is very specific on how to disambiguate names. If we apply your principle we would have to rename many thousands of articles and redirect even more links. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 20:46, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Eh? It doesn't specifically say how to disambiguate. It just says that if you disambiguate using parentheses, you shouldn't use articles in the parentheses, and says how to format disambiguation pages. WP:NCDAB is the relevant guideline. As far as this goes, I don't think every page of this sort should/can be moved—some people aren't often referred to by their middle names (entertainers contra military men and scientists)—and using parenthetical disambiguations is a good option too. —innotata 20:59, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Are you saying that Wheeler is generally known by his middle name? If so I agree with what you are saying. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 21:02, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Often enough, there's some books quoting him, government websites, and news articles that refer to him with his middle name, a decent portion of the small amount of material on him online. I check that before I move any articles, of course. —innotata 21:14, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

In which case that's fine with me. Many thanks for the explanation. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 21:28, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Birds are not that important

i didn do nuthin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Birdsarenotthatimportant (talk • contribs) 07:07, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Excuse me? —innotata 21:41, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

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Somali sparrow edit

Hi Innotata! Thank you for correcting my edit of the Somali sparrow page. That was my first article edit here, so I'm still trying to learn the ropes. Just for clarification, if I use a source that's not on the page I'm translating from (because I figured that info needed to be cited somewhere) then I don't need to post that I translated it from the other language page? I wasn't sure, so I went ahead and posted in the talk page just to be safe. Thanks (: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leofyr (talk • contribs) 16:30, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

You're figuring things out pretty fast. Yeah, you just need to post it on the talk page. The template "expand language" is meant to ask users to translate more, that's what you got mixed up. —innotata 16:33, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Afghan snowfinch

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:02, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for 2nd Dragoon Regiment (France)

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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DYK nom

I've started a review of the article Sean Mulryan, although I'm not so familiar with this. Thanks for your review! Best wishes. --Huang Jinghai (talk) 03:53, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

That's OK. It's my honour to start my first review!--Huang Jinghai (talk) 07:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

That's good. Good luck with your future work on DYK. —innotata 17:22, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

132d wing

First of all, the cycle is revert, discuss - not revert, revert. And don't shout.

The sources you may have consulted may use 132nd, but they are not official USAF historical or organizational documents. Consult Maurer, Maurer, ed. (1983) [1961]. Air Force Combat Units of World War II (PDF) (reprint ed.). Washington, DC: Office of Air Force History. p. 250. ISBN 0-912799-02-1. LCCN 61060979. for the official designation of this unit. You will see the same thing for all Air Force units whose numerical designation ends in 2 or 3. Maurer, Maurer, ed. (1982) [1969]. Combat Squadrons of the Air Force, World War II (PDF) (reprint ed.). Washington, DC: Office of Air Force History. ISBN 0-405-12194-6. LCCN 70605402. OCLC 72556. and Ravenstein, Charles A. Air Force Combat Wings, Lineage & Honors Histories 1947-1977. Washington, DC: Office of Air Force History. ISBN 0-912799-12-9. demonstrate the same usage in official documents. Locally produced documents, on the other hand, may stray from official usage. --Lineagegeek (talk) 21:30, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Lineagegeek It seemed pretty obvious to me, since all the sources used one format. And no, only one revert isn't a rule in most circumstances. I shouldn't revert you now, but I'm not breaking some policy or something.

We use the commonly recognised name (avoiding obscure officialese) and it's pretty clear—based on historical works, 'local' official documents and websites, and news media, etc.—what that is here. I'll bring this up at requested moves soon. —innotata 21:42, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

This is not in any way WP:JARGON. The sources using "nd" are not reliable for this usage and WP:COMMONNAME applies in favor of USAF usage. If you review Wikipedia articles on USAF units, you will see they follow the official usage. --Lineagegeek (talk) 22:04, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't see how a rule to use the commonly used name means we follow the rarely used official form, but I'll open an RM for this article and some similar ones and we can discuss this there. —innotata 22:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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DYK for Irene Morales (soldier)

The Wiki thanks you for your help Victuallers (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

What an interesting life, told in a well-written article. Congratulations! Awien (talk) 01:14, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! I know; I was just as fascinated as you, and it's among the articles I'm proudest of. I came across the bare article while improving categories (!) and while learning more the amazingness only increased (even compared to other child soldiers). What I couldn't find was much about her as a person, since her life is not much documented; I did find a quote from a letter she wrote, and there are the opinions of the men of her time: Cámus, Baquedano, Mackenna. —innotata 02:13, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

^_^ Awien (talk) 16:02, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Image deletion discussion

FYI, see commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cantinera Irene Morales(1865-1890).jpg. It would be great if you could locate more information about where this colorized version (versions?) comes from. For now I've replaced the image in the article with the B&W version. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:29, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Hawkeye7 looks at the military history of Austria-Hungary Timeleine: This month in World War I

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 02:25, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for a very nice bivalve article!

Hey Innotata, thanks so much for the new article Theora mesopotamica. The bivalve project is not currently very active, so it is particularly nice to get a new addition to expand our bivalve coverage. Invertzoo (talk) 14:17, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

I've noticed your edits on pages relating to Bivalves; perhaps you'd be interested in joining WikiProject Bivalves. If you would like more information please visit the project page.

That might be a one-off (or maybe I'll work on some of the other unusually named species from Dance's article that haven't got articles). As for your edits from the article, are you sure about calling it "saltwater"? It most definitely occurs in brackish water, with a low salt concentration, and ichthyologists at least wouldn't describe such a fish as "saltwater". If you could find any more information on the species, that would be great, it's a pretty incomplete article; the only description I could find was Annandale's off of subfossils, and there's not enough on its distribution and ecology. Anyone who has reference books that mention the species would be able to add something. —innotata 23:38, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

@Invertzoo:? —innotata 01:50, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Innotata. I changed the intro sentence to reflect that the species lives in brackish water, thanks for pointing out my error. Although I don't have any reference books for that area, I can see if I can find more info on that species online, but in reality there may not be much more that is known about it. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 13:11, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election

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DYK for Pile (voice actress)

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:04, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Pile photo

I know that. It's not a promo photo of Lantis since it's in my harddrive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Great Scholar (talk • contribs) 15:46, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Eh? If you didn't take the photo or otherwise own the copyright, you're violating copyright by posting it on Wikipedia. The fact that's in on your hard drive doesn't change anything. —innotata 15:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Song Jia (actress, born 1980)

Why was the page no moved? The opposers based their decisions on the fact that someone (whose intention was only to oppose me) made this orphaned stub, thus making my original claim "The other actress has no page" no longer valid. However, as I've shown, the 1980 actress is clearly primary with respect to usage over the other actress. Please review. Timmyshin (talk) 01:31, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Zheng Shuang (actress, born 1991) too, opposition based on flawed rationale that someone must appear in Google Books to be a primary topic. Timmyshin (talk) 01:34, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Both had three users opposing your suggestion, and none supporting, even after being listed on RM for 3 weeks. So there was at least something approaching a consensus for not moving, and the discussions were too stale for relisting. I wouldn't take any particular side personally, as there wasn't enough evidence on which of the people was the primary topic…but it's more on the requester to provide evidence. And yeah, I'm sorry, if your argument is just "the other person doesn't have a page", the creation of a page does invalidate it ;) Since both had two actresses of the same name, and the second has three people of the same name, you'd really need to demonstrate well that one is primary with respect to usage and long-term significance. —innotata 02:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

I understand where you are coming from, and I'm thankful that you are replying in an understanding manner. However, please consider the following: none of the 5 people has any long-term significance. As for usage, page view stats are clearly overwhelming, particularly since 3 of these pages were just created in the past 3 weeks (again, for no reason but to oppose the move):

Zheng Shuang 1991	Zheng Shuang 1966	Zheng Shuang artist
~45/day	2-3/day	1-4/day
Song Jia 1980	Song Jia 1962
15-21/day	1-4/day

Please tell me if you need more evidence, to me this is a no-brainer.

Timmyshin (talk) 02:27, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

You should know that the recent creation of some of them and the RM mean the pageviews tell us nothing. Even otherwise, they don't tell us anything about usage outside Wikipedia, and such a small number of pageviews is pretty uninformative (well, pageviews are always going to have issues…). As for long-term significance, it's relative, so they all have some. (And why the articles were created isn't really germane to what the article titles should be.)

As I said, you should have provided more reason than the above—during the requested move. You had plenty of opportunity to convince during the RM, and you still haven't made this a no-brainer. But feel free to bring this up at WP:MR if you really disagree with my closure. I'm not an admin and rarely close discussions, but I think it's clear there was no consensus. I'm not sure there's a particular reason to start new move requests here… —innotata 05:31, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, point taken. I'm not going to go through WP:MR on these two. I just have to say, the process is quite arbitrary. I was involved in another discussion of 2 Korean actresses with even fewer page views and a smaller page-view difference but the discussion consensus was the complete opposite (namely 1 actress got the primary topic). I don't disagree with your closure per se, but I don't agree with some of your points, like pageviews being uninformative in this situation etc. If pageviews are uninformative, then what is informative in your opinion, may I ask? Timmyshin (talk) 05:45, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I supported your move; one key difference there was that the people were directly comparable. There are lots of reasons pageviews can be problematic: they may be affected by things that have nothing to do with the subject's notability, they have technical limitations and accuracy problems, and they might not be statistically meaningful. Maybe nothing is informative or at least clear, sometimes :P But you know, there's usage online (in different languages), in books; and then there's indications of significance like awards, which both you and the users opposed to the moves mentioned. —innotata 05:56, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

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Talk:Pile (voice actress)#Requested move

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Pile (voice actress)#Requested move. Thanks. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:34, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

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