User talk:HistoryofIran/Archive 7

Mithridates V of Parthia

It seems we’re at odds over the lineage (or lack thereof) of the Parthian contender Mithridates V. I never intended to make a big deal out of this and I apologize for the lack of communication I’ve had with you in regards to it, but due to him being the ancestor of the Arsacid dynasties of Iberia and Armenia, I’d hate to leave his page as a stub or at least not connect him to the other Arsacids. I have indeed been doing research on this figure, such as browsing web archives and reading up on encyclopedias and have managed to gather enough information to at least buff out the stub. Although I know I don’t have a definitive account for his life or family connections, I have gone above and beyond to make sure the sources I provide are valid and I am sorry for any inconvenience I have caused you. I have decided to reach out to you in hopes of sharing my thoughts with you before I do anything else. Thank you. GOMUL13 (talk) 11:29, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I share HistoryofIran's concerns. First off, Britannica is not a reliable source and should not be used. Secondly, you made an edit here; I checked the source you provided and it did not say anything about a "Murrod". Care to explain? --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:59, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@GOMUL13: If I did appear as a bully then I'm sorry Gomul13, that was not my intention - you don't have ask for my approval, I don't own anything here. However, I would love to help you if you have any questions. Nothing in the source indicates that this 'Meherdates' was Mithridates V. Likewise, the origin of Osroes I is unknown as well per his article. I would also love to know the origin of figures such as these as well, but that does not seem to be possible with the amount of knowledge there is about the obscure Parthians, which is not an unusual thing in history, especially in the Middle East. And Britannica is not WP:RS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:12, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: Oh no! That’s not what I was trying to insinuate! I’ve actually appreciated the feedback you’ve given me, I’ve been trying my best to be as helpful as I could in regards to the ambiguous history of Parthian genealogy. I’m definitely no expert, but I’d be lying if I said I haven’t be trying my best with what knowledge I have available to me. Also I did not know Brittanica wasn’t usable for Wikipedia until now, so thanks for the tip I guess. GOMUL13 (talk) 01:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: I probably shouldn’t have added that since it’s mainly based on hearsay, but multiple soyces (found within her page) refer to Murrod as a Parthian princess and a daughter of Artabanus IV. Also, on a similar but possibly unrelated note, the Kar-Namag i Ardashir i Pabagan refers to the mother of Shapur I as a daughter of the late Parthian king (although she was referred to as Zijanak). GOMUL13 (talk) 02:12, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Nishapur or Neyshabur?!

Thank you for your answer and help! I didn't change the WP:COMMON NAME this time and only added Neyshabur as the official name. I have also added a citation (An official governmental website along with my previous citations that are not included this time) to the Municipality of Neyshabur as my claim for the usage of this Romanization as the official name. You can check it out. You can change the article if you still disagree with me on this matter. Best regards! Ehsanbasafa (talk) 12:07, 25 November 2021 (UTC)Ehsanbasafa

Idernes

I have created a disambiguation page Hydarnes (disambiguation), and since all of the entries on Idernes are actually 'Hydarnes' titles, I would suggest making Idernes a redirect to Hydarnes (disambiguation) and adding something like 'and its Greek transliteration Idernes' to the lead. What do you think? Leschnei (talk) 14:50, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Leschnei: Hi Leschnei, sounds good to me. I will do it tomorrow (today technically?), or feel free to do it yourself if you want to ofc. --HistoryofIran (talk) 05:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Vedic period - meat consumption

Hello Historyofiran, you recently reversed contributions by me in the Vedic Period article where I changed the text which referred to Vedic diet (in the Vedic Culture section) as not consisting of beef, to being consisted of beef as a staple. You state that you reversed it to sourced material, but there is no reference material given that states Vedic people had an "aghnya" (not to be killed) attitude towards cows. Most serious academics accept that Vedic people not only ate beef, but it was a staple in their diet and formed a central part of their society as Aryan people were cattle rearers.

Please let me know your reasoning, I don't wanna be accused of "warring" in an effort to change it to the commonly accepted beliefs by academics.

Windafarna (talk) 21:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC) Windafarna

Hi. Per the cited source; However, the reference to cows as aghnya (not be killed) suggests a disapproval of their indiscriminate killing. If there are indeed other sources that say otherwise, please do add them. Perhaps is should be checked if A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India: From the Stone Age to the 12th Century is even WP:RS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:11, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India: From the Stone Age to the 12th Century, published by Pearson Education, written by Upinder Singh.

Upinder Singh is an Indian historian and the former head of the History Department at the University of Delhi. She is the dean of faculty and professor of history at Ashoka University. She is also the recipient of the inaugural Infosys Prize in the category of Social Sciences.

Looks WP:RS to me. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:22, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it states against their "indiscriminate killing", which to me is clearly suggestive language meaning that they weren't killed just for any sake but had some significance with cattle being a significant part of Vedic society and economy. The early Vedic texts clearly refer to beef consumption, with Indra ordering that he be served "15 plus 20" cows, Agni eating cows and goats, the late Vedic philosopher Yajnavalkya stating that he eats beef "if it is tender", among many others. After the statement of the alleged aghnya attitude towards cows, he states that the "issue" is "controversial", and that dietary practices change over time. A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India: From the Stone Age to the 12th Century is a general history of South Asia which glosses over many details on account if its need to cover the entire pre-modern history of South Asia in a single book. It leaves many details out and some details ambiguous despite them being completely uncontroversial among non-Indian scholars. The author even states that Dardic is a "non-Sanskritic" language, despite it being the closest language to Sanskrit and the most archaic Indo-Aryan language in the context of Proto-Indo-Aryan, some scholars believe it is the direct descendent to the language of the Rigvedas.

I'm wondering if I contribute to the article with a proper citation from a book that covers beef consumption in Vedic times, if it will stay there. In my opinion, the whole notion that cows were not eaten despite Vedic society and the Aryan way of life being centered around cattle, and with clear statements of beef eating by Devas and human beings alike, is out of the mainstream and only perpetuated by Hindu religio-nationalists who assert the same pseudo-history of Indigenous Aryanism and that Puranic Chronology is historical fact and not religious mythology.

Thanks, please let me know if my contributions will stay on the page with an added citation, I do intend to remove the assertion of that cows were not killed and eaten and replace it with commonly agreed upon facts on Vedic society. Windafarna (talk) 23:19, 27 November 2021 (UTC)Windafarna

Your GA nomination of Bessus

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Bessus you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Gug01 -- Gug01 (talk) 03:00, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

New info

Mithridates V is referred to as a son of Pacorus II by John Malalas in his Chronographia. Also, in Volume 18 of the 11th Edition Encyclopedia Britannica on page 621, he is called Mithridates IV and died in Commagene (which is located near Ectbatana) and appointed Sinatruces II as his successor, whom is referred to as his son. -- GOMUL13 (talk) 11:06, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

John Malalas is a primary source (please read WP:PSTS), and the Cambridge History of Iran still does not call Mithridates V a son of Pacorus, and Britannica is still not WP:RS. As I said earlier, the origin of Mithridates V and Osroes is unknown in modern scholarship. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

GOMUL13, post a quote from The Cambridge History of Iran, Vol.3, Part1, page 91. And prove this information exists.--Kansas Bear (talk) 16:40, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Kansas Bear, I returned the copy I had to my library two weeks ago so I can't supply the exact information you want at the time. I have since been trying to download an online copy of it off of the Cambridge website but understand that I have come to respect the feedback and rules you two have shared with me. If you like, I will abandon my research into Mithridates V as I appear to lack sufficient evidence to warrant his page's expansion. Thanks for understanding. -- GOMUL13 (talk) 18:00, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

• "If you like, I will abandon my research into Mithridates V as I appear to lack sufficient evidence to warrant his page's expansion."

I never said that. Anything used as a source on Wikipedia has to be verifiable. This removes the possibility of original research. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:09, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I didn't mean to word it like that, what I meant was I was beginning to feel like a vandal as I kept adding when I had little to prove it with so I decided to end my fruitless journey with this obscure figure. -- GOMUL13 (talk) 18:35, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Edit war

Hi HistoryofIran! I'd like to ask for your help with an edit war at Talk:Ali#problematic_edits. Thanks! Albertatiran (talk) 08:18, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Sorry but that topic isn't really my speciality nor interest. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:59, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Al-Kunduri

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Ghurid map

Map of the Ghurid Empire

Current map of the Ghurid Empire

A more conventional depiction

Hi HistoryofIran. The current map of the Ghurid Empire (attached, in white and green) seems quite enlarged compared to the cartographic sources I have access to. Please check this reference: Schwartzberg, Joseph E. (1978). A Historical atlas of South Asia. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. p. 147, map XIV.3 (g). ISBN 0226742210.. Also the very first version of this green and white map back in 2009 [1] was apparently based on the Atlas of World History (2007) - The World 1000-1200 (probably this source, by Oxford University Press). But I note that you modified this original map with major enlargements in 2013-2014 [2]. Would you have a reliable cartographical source for your enlarged version of the map? (I am not speaking about vague sentences such as "transient military empire which at times stretched from Gorgān (q.v.) in the west to northern India in the east" [3]). If not, I would suggest we return to more generally accepted depictions of the Ghurid territory, such as the ones by Schwartzberg or the Atlas of World History. Best पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Disagree. These 'Atlas' sources are rarely accurate, often being very generic and contradicting sourced material written by experts on the subject. This is what History of Civilizations of Central Asia - Volume 4 says as well; "In 1201 Ghurid troops entered Khurasan and captured Nishapur, Merv, Sarakhs and Tus, reaching as far as Gurgan and Bistam. Kuhistan, a stronghold of the Ismailis, was plundered and all Khurasan was brought temporarily under Ghurid control" - p. 191. However, I do think that the shortlived possessions of the Ghurids should be shown in another way. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

It's probably that "temporary forays" are rarely considered as "administered territory" per se. I'm afraid we cannot create our own map based on our enlarged interpretations of these plundering expeditions, and I wouldn't discount reliable cartographical sources that easily. There might also be a problem with the synchronocity of eastern and western possessions: were eastern conquests achieved at the same time as western ones? In other words, does your enlarged map even reflect Ghurid territorial presence at a single point of time? Until you find a better map with temporary forays/possession, I suggest we reinstate my standard map which roughly corresponds to Schwartzberg and Oxford. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 13:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

The eastern conquests were earlier it seems; "Moʿezz-al–Dīn himself returned to Khorasan to aid his brother against the Ḵᵛārazmšāhs, but his conquests in India were carried on by his Turkish commander Qoṭb-al-Dīn Aybak (q.v.) and, expanding as far east as Bengal, by Eḵtīār-al-Dīn Moḥammad Ḵaljī. It was Aybak who at Delhi built the Qowwat-al-Eslām mosque (588/1192) and at Ajmer converted into the Arhāʾī-Dīn-kā-jhompŕā mosque (comp. 596/1200) a former Hindu college as visible signs of Ghurid might in India (Burton-Page, “Dilhi,” p. 259 with the plan of Qowwat-al-Eslām mosque; idem, “Hind,” p. 442)." I do agree that the map needs to be improved, but I do not consider the other much as an improvement, as we have at least two high quality sources that contradicts it. If I only a had a base map (doesn't have to be a map from Wiki) showing an area from Iran to Bangladesh then I could create a much better map from scratch. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:04, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Like this? File:Topographic90deg N0E0.png? (may deserve stitching a small portion of the next map to the east). पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 14:10, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

The map is not detailed enough when zoomed in - I'm going to draw over the map, so the edges and shape of the map is not gonna look too pretty using that map. Also, extending the map out even a little is too much of a hassle. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:28, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

In case you're interested, I can do the stiching, it's easy. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 11:30, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Here it is, with significantly more detail than the initial one (x4). पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 11:51, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

This looks good, thanks. I will create a new map from this one then. However, do beware that making such maps from scratch requires a lot of time investing, so this deffo won't be done by the next week or so. Drawing over the map perfectly alone takes several hours. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:03, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Bessus

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Season's Greetings

	Season's Greetings
	Hi HistoryofIran! Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and a beautiful and productive New Year! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 13:10, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much पाटलिपुत्र and likewise 🎄. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:49, 21 December 2021 (UTC)as

Ancient territory of modern Azerbaijan

How is my contribution disruptive? The modern country of Azerbaijan was not named until the 20th century. This territory was known in ancient history under different names. This should be reflected when talking about the ancient history, using terms such as Arran, Caucasian Albania, Shirvan, Atropatene etc. The minimum should be "the territory that is today part of Azerbaijan. Simply saying "Ibrahim Yinal was appointed governor of Azerbaijan" is confusing. You have abused your privilege as an administrator by threatening me and my contributions as being disruptive. How is accuracy disruptive? There is a process for higher Wikipedia intervention process when someone is using their power to bully and threaten the constructive edits of another. Have I misunderstood something? Were you referring to some other edit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Youngkyf (talk • contribs) 15:01, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

@Youngkyf: Again, this is not referring to the modern Republic of Azerbaijan in the Cacuasus, but the historic Azerbaijan region in now what is northwestern Iran, please see Azerbaijan (Iran). Atropatene was not the historic name of the present-day Azerbaijan country, but that of the historic region in Iran. See Atropatene. While we're at it, see Adurbadagan as well. Last but not least, please refrain from making accusations towards me, and also read edit summaries. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:14, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Calendar

Hi. Based on your good edits and area of interest, I'd like you to take a look at Solar Hijri calendar. Until yesterday it was somewhat lacking in quality of style but I have made a major improvement to its structure. You might be able to contribute further to this article and maybe get its content to a higher level like in the Chinese calendar article. Thanks. --WR 21:25, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi Weaveravel. Thank you, I will put it on my to-do-list. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:38, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

lur

my bro im lur and i know better than others lur have 3 big branches : bakhtiari , lorestan ,southern lurs dont edit plz راستزاد (talk) 13:21, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but that is not how it works here in Wikipedia. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pacorus I

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Persian/Iranian categories

I know very little about mediaeval Iran/Persian, but its obvious that the categories are a mess. Do you have any ideas about how they could be improved? Rathfelder (talk) 15:21, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@Rathfelder: Yes, for example changing the 'x-century Persian scientists/etc' to that of Iranian. Persian and Iranian are not synonymous. A huge amount of historical Iranian figures are not of Persian descent, such as al-Biruni. Scholarship routinely uses the word 'Iran(ian)' nowadays to refer to pre-1925 Iran, as it is more accurate. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:24, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm quite happy to propose they all be renamed - so long as you can back me up. What we have now make no sense. Rathfelder (talk) 15:27, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I will, no prob. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:27, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

• Will there be people who can properly be said to be Persian who are not Iranian? Rathfelder (talk) 16:49, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@Rathfelder: Certainly. Though the lines are sometimes blurry, mainly in the medieval Islamic era. Some major non-Persian Iranian civilizations are Sogdians, Bactrians, Khwarazmians, Parthians, and Daylamites. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:52, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

• So we may need to keep some Persian categories? And make some more? Rathfelder (talk) 18:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

That's up to you. For the sake of keeping it as accurate (and I guess simple?) as possible I personally would not. It might also open up a can of worms if we have both. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:01, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Phraates I

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Your GA nomination of Phraates I

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Your GA nomination of Phraates I

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Your GA nomination of Pacorus I

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Your GA nomination of Pacorus I

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Your GA nomination of Abu Sulayman Banakati

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Colchis in the 18th Satrapy

Name the source, which historian writes that Colchis was a satrapy. There is no source on earth where Colchis is written as part of a satrapy. CeRcVa13 (talk) 10:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I've already did in my edit summary, so there clearly are sources like that. If Colchis was under Achaemenid period for the entirety of their period, however, is another story. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:53, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

A less vague excerpt of the source; The situation is reminiscent of Colchis and Caucasian Iberia. Once, it was inconceivable that they had been under Achaemenid rule; now, ever more evidence is emerging to show that they were, forming a lesser part of the Armenian satrapy page 665 --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:59, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I've already did in my edit summary, so there clearly are sources like that. If Colchis was under "Achaemenid period for the entirety of their period, however, is another story"

Which source are you talking about, where it is written that Colchis was a satrapy? There is talk in all sources about the vassal state, I saw that earlier Georgian Gocha Tsetskhladze's source was brought in connection with this issue. He never wrote that Colchis was in any of the satrapies. There is no source where Colchis is referred to as a satrapy.

The map must be corrected or indicate below the map that Colchis was a vassal and ally and not a satrapy (sources Herodotus and David Braund point to). CeRcVa13 (talk) 11:14, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I am talking about A Companion to the Achaemenid Empire. As mentioned, it is on page 665. Even if it was a vassal state only, it still means that the area was under Achaemenid rule. There's nothing wrong with the map. I saw you attempted to do something similiar at Safavid Georgia; I would highly advise you to stop. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:16, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

The vassal state and the province are two different commandments. I do not want to bother explaining this, you have to understand this. Nowhere is it mentioned that Colchis was in the 18th satrapy and why is the 18th satrapy on the map? Do you have a source to prove this? Of course not. So either indicate below the map that Colchis was not in Satrapy or delete the map. Safavid Georgia did not have such a thing, because western Georgia was a vassal of the Ottomans and Georgia was divided into many parts, so I will always have a problem with disinformation. CeRcVa13 (talk) 11:28, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Cercva. The quote I wrote literally says that Colchis was part of the Achaemenid satrapy. Even if it was a vassal state, that does not mean the map should be removed or changed, by that logic we would have to remove/change most dynasty maps in Wikipedia. Whether it was mentioned in the 18th-satrapy or not is of zero relevance, we go by what modern sources say, please read the guidelines. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:32, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Majd al-Dawla

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Here is something interesting

I happened upon on of your "discussions", you always seem to have the most interesting ones, and found;

• Introduction to Christian Caucasian History: The Formative Centuries (IVth-VIIIth), Cyril Toumanoff, Traditio, Vol. 15 (1959), pp. 1-106.
  

especially, page 23. Seems informative and the note on the same page is interesting. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:24, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

I see, I'm glad to hear that. It is indeed, I'll keep this bit in mind, thank you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:57, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

AND, regarding that particular person in the discussion above and their edit on Daiuehi, it would appear their candor, ?reading ability?, should be drawn into question. Page 18-19 of Donald Rayfield, "Edge of Empires : A History of Georgia","Under the Medes and the Achaemenid Persians, the Georgians of Colchis and of Iberia achieved parity, if not unity: Sasperi, or Iberians, formed the eighteenth Satrapy of the Persian empire, and Colchians(Herodotus lists them as Moskhi, Tibarenes, Makarons, Mossynooci and Mars) formed the nineteenth Satrapy."

Needless to say, it is good to be back from Alabama.--Kansas Bear (talk) 20:29, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Haha I see, well I guess that settles it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:33, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abu Sulayman Banakati

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Question

Hey HistoryofIran, happy new year and I hope you're doing well. Noticed an editor you've with recently did these additions in Diauehi article. Wanted to ask your opinion about these edits, as your interests are more in history topics. Also this seems like canvassing by the user, maybe a warning is needed. Cheers, ZaniGiovanni (talk) 13:12, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you and likewise. Well, I can confirm that the source indeed supports his (copy-paste) addition. Whether it's appropriate or not, I don't know. To be frank, I know absolutely nothing about the Diauehi. It certainly needs a rewriting, though. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Probably a note on Kober's talk page would be most productive. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your time, much appreciated. Quite frankly, I'm not knowledgeable about Diauehis either. I get alot of WP:TENDENTIOUS vibes from the user if I'm being honest, this edit is a prime example. Blank removal of sourced info, complete disregard of multiple sources in Diauehi#Origins, and clear POV imo. But no time for wiki-drama for me) Take care and thanks again. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 11:22, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Majd al-Dawla

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Your GA nomination of Sayyida Shirin

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Sayyida Shirin you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Jens Lallensack -- Jens Lallensack (talk) 15:40, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Sayyida Shirin

The article Sayyida Shirin you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Sayyida Shirin for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Jens Lallensack -- Jens Lallensack (talk) 16:00, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Referring to your revert

"‎ rv, yeah disputed claim, those almost 40 sources are nothing serious "

Well, even the article on Orontid dynasty says some historians say so and others so, with dozens of other sources. Please read. Don't you think it's better to leave that part out of that section or to display both opinions, if historians themselves are not 100% sure. Thats common sense. If you are going to ignore this than don't come to my page and accuse. Thanks

Just because one article says something, doesnt mean other articles should too, per Wikipedia:OTHER. No matter how you put it, removing a piece of information supported by almost 40 sources is not constructive. I did not 'accuse' you of anything, I simply left you a warning because of your edit. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:54, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@UserXpetVarpet: WP:CANVASSING [4] is not allowed either. Also, what's the point of coming here if you're gonna ignore what I've said anyway? --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:33, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, have a good day UserXpetVarpet (talk) 23:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

i asking you assistance my sir/ma'am

hello Mr/Ms history of iran (sorry for lack of ability to speak english fluently). i just massage you to demand your help and assistanse in subjects related to kurdish history , language and ethnology ,as i saw your activity and conclueded that you are an old and professional editor and experienced in orientalism one of wikipedia editors name "semsuri" activley manuplating articles that have content related to kurdish subjects(direct or indirect) in order to back up kurdish socio_political strategy and goals ; in other words "non_scientific purposes", there is many examples that i see from him and the latest(3 month ego in article name "kurds" ) removed sourced content that explains differnce between languages spoken by kurds and deduce their difference as different as German and english ( he probably removed this sentences in order to keep introducing kurdish identity as unified and inseparable ) as i personally not able to fix this manipualtions i kindly ask you sir/ma'am , that keep your eyes on this editor and fix this deep and various manipulations

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohammad1107reza (talk • contribs) 11:33, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Sayyida Shirin

The article Sayyida Shirin you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Sayyida Shirin for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Jens Lallensack -- Jens Lallensack (talk) 18:41, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Al-Kunduri

The article Al-Kunduri you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Al-Kunduri for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of PCN02WPS -- PCN02WPS (talk) 08:00, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Category:Seljuq generals has been nominated for renaming

Category:Seljuq generals has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:46, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Khosrow Khan Gorji

Hello! I’m new here so thank you for any advice you can give, but I was curious about your reversion of the Armenian name added to this. Article. I realize that Armenian was not the official language of the place and time he lived, but as the son of an Armenian priest (per the source listed on the article), would Armenian not the the appropriate language of his birth name? Is there a particular style guide that delineates when a persons name in their native tongue should or should not be included in an article? Thanks so much!

-Evansknight (talk) 04:07, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Evansknight, and welcome to Wikipedia. That's because it had no relevance/role in his life from what we know. See MOS:LEAD. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:33, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Then why give his original Armenian name in the first place, in Latin characters? Im still trying to figure things out, and it seems like there is no real rhyme or reason to when and why names are written in their native language vs. when they are not. I've also noticed a huge discrepancy in the way the certain things are transliterated into English from Persian and I wondered if there was a specific style guide for that? In particular, ol-dowleh/ed-dowleh/al-duleh/al-daula. ol-Dowleh is the transliteration I am most familiar with, but it seems all over the place on wikipedia. Thanks! - Evansknight (talk) 15:11, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Because that was his original name, and written in Latin characters so we can read it. His Persian name wasn't written in Latin characters either. As for transliterations into Persian from English, that really depends on the time period and the source. During the medieval era, sources tend to use 'al-daula/al-dawla', and the other variants usually from around the Safavid era and after. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:18, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I think I understand that, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. Speaking of his Persian name, would it not be appropriate for that to be added to the article? I don't want to touch anything again without clarifying, and it seems like there is some discrepancy on articles about whether the Persian name is rendered in Persian as well as Latin script. -Evansknight (talk) 16:09, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Happy to be of help. Yup, it would. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:20, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Lede

Just to make sure I conveyed my message correctly, I don't support removing the Persian name entirely from the lede, just the Persian script. Sources don't commonly include it at all, only the transliteration, and accordingly I think it should be given along with the fuller treatment of the name in the main text. If you don't support it I won't insist on it for now. Avilich (talk) 15:57, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Actually, now that I see it, you did the exact reverse, moving the transliteration down the text. I don't see how this helps the average reader. Avilich (talk) 16:00, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Like any other article, we usually add the script of the relevant language in the persons lifetime. I don't see why the Old Persian script should be an exception. Sources commonly don't include scripts, be it Old Persian or another script. I removed the transliteration to reach a medium with you, since you said that the lede was being filled with too much of such stuff. Re-added it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:03, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's why the script would still be there, but there's nothing mandating that it be placed at the very beginning, where the reader first bats the eye. The lede is supposed to give a brief introduction, and, when it gets too long, a script which is completely foreign to most English speakers should be the first thing to be moved elsewhere. If sources don't usually include the Persian script (this one gives all names, except the Greek ones, in the Latin alphabet), it means that it's not as informative, and so it can be mentioned someplace other than the introduction. Avilich (talk) 17:55, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

If sources don't usually include the Persian script (this one gives all names, except the Greek ones, in the Latin alphabet), it means that it's not as informative, and so it can be mentioned someplace other than the introduction. According to whom? Also, I disagree with the lede being too long, and I'm even usually the first to point out such stuff. It also goes without saying that the Old Persian script is important to have in an article about the Achaemenid Empire. Moreover, it's just a few words - with all due respect, is it really that groundbreaking for the readibility of the lede? We have GA and even FA articles with ledes akin to this, and whose script should also be removed if we were to go by your suggestion. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:24, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

First of all, I never said it needs to be 'removed', just moved down, and I don't even support doing this with most Persian-themed articles. My standard is usually one line and a half: if it takes more than than that in the 1st sentence to list all valid spellings, birth and death dates, and names in other languages (the stuff that goes bolded or between parentheses), then it should probably be cleaned up (two full lines until the actual text begins doesn't make for a pleasant read). "Bessus" has a section titled "Name", and I'm still not seeing the issue of having an actual name be mentioned there instead. If the sources don't find the spelling in Persian script immediately irrelevant, it's safe to assume that the average reader in English doesn't necessarily need to be told in the very first sentence about it, depending on the circumstance. Avilich (talk) 21:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

By 'removed' I simply meant removed from the lede. Sorry, but my opinion remains the same. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:53, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Please help

Hello brother, there is a pan turk user in wikipedia (jddw3) he frequently changed my photo in (ethnics groups in Afghanistan) english page and has uploded a wrong map used by CIA agency because of political Issues to Minimize tajik population, fore example according to naval postgraduate school balkh province of Afghanistan is a province with tajik majority but in that map uzbeks are!!!!! I can not changed that photo to the Previous one, please do that i can't my photo i uploded was based on Al-Jazeera report, please help. Thank you 5644Khorasani (talk) 09:45, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

No, need i fixed it. Thank you 5644Khorasani (talk) 12:04, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Battle of Khushab

Appears to be a withdrawing action by the Brits which was blocked by the Persians. The Persians lost allowing the Brits to continue withdrawing to the coast. Will post a source when I get off work. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:47, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

• "On February 7, 1857, the British defeated the Iranian army under Khanlar Mirza at Khushab (Khoosh-Ab) but did not pursue..." --Conflict and Conquest in the Islamic World: A Historical Encyclopedia, Volume 1, Alexander Mikaberidze. page 106.

• "On February 7, 1857, enroute to Bushire, a Persian force of some 8,000 men under Khanlar Mirza attempts to block Outram's force of 4,600 men at Khushab. Although the British have only some 400 cavalry to 2,000 for the Persians, the British cavalry charges the Persian infantry, and the British go on to win a major victory..."--A Global Chronology of Conflict: From the Ancient World to the Modern Middle East, Spencer C. Tucker, Vol 3, page 1221. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:43, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: Noice, I've added them [https://en

.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Khushab&diff=1074929757&oldid=1067931026]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:51, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Qajar Princes/Officials Inbox style

Would it fall within the style guidelines that y'all use for Qajar related biographies to list governorships in their infoboxes? I know it's hard to find immediate successor and predecessor info, and a lot of what I've found even just cursorily looking has been contradictory. -Evansknight (talk) 19:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I guess that varies a lot. Something specific you're thinking about? --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:28, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, inbox usage on Qajar articles seems kind of sporadic, so I wasn't sure. For instance, Dowlatshah was a section of his article entitled Government positions held, and lists them chronologically. Would it make more sense to include those in his infobox, as I've seen with other individuals. The infobozes for Qajar princes on Persian wikipedia are similarly on-and-off. I don't want to post it on your talk page, but I've got an example of what I mean in my sandbox if you wanted to see a visual rep of what I'm talking about. -Evansknight (talk) 20:49, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Imo, what should be shown in the infobox should be based on its relevance/importance to the whole career of x person. But if we don't have enough information either I generally don't think it should be added, as it would make it look incomplete/messy. I don't really know much about Dowlatshah, so that's up to you. Qajar history is well-recorded, I'm sure you can find some of his governor predecessors and successors somewhere, such as here [5]. I hope I'm making sense lol. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely you are, and you're right, Iranica is a GOLDMINE for obscure political information otherwise difficult to find in English sources. I know that you all put a lot of work into the Persian history pages, so I don't want to waltz in and start editing willy-nilly without first getting a good idea of how you all like to do things, and like things to be. I'd love to just perform basic maintenance like adding names in Persian when appropriate, I work well when I have a simple and repetitive task that other people usually find annoying. As with the Sayf ol-Dowleh page, I'd also like to assist in copyediting and grammar/syntax improvement if I can. I guess I just want to know in what wayI can be of most use to the wikiproject without getting in the way? -Evansknight (talk) 21:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Remember, neither me nor anyone else for that matter own anything here. I'm not really used to help people here (xd), but I will gladly try my best, feel free to write to me if there's anything. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:07, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Of course, I understand. Collaborative means collaborative. I just see all of the incredible work that you and the other members of the Iran wiki project put into your edits and articles and I would hate to make a nuisance of myself by making changes or proposing things without running it by people who have years more experience than I do. I appreciate any advice you have, and I promise I won't bother you too much. -Evansknight (talk) 15:17, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Parthian Empire

The abbreviation "AD" is Latin for "In the Year of Our Lord" (anno domini). So "AD 2022 war broke out in Ukraine" for example reads "in the year of Our Lord 2022 war broke out in Ukraine". Your preferred version is "2022 AD war broke out in Ukraine" which reads "2022 in the year of Our Lord war broke out in Ukraine". That implies that 2022 had been declared the year of Our Lord by someone (the pope?) who is always declaring years to be "the year of [something or other]." Why do you prefer the ambiguous version to the version accepted by scholars? 156.61.250.251 (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but the vast majority of Wiki articles are written as '2022 AD', including sources as well. If I'm not mistaken, there's a guideline to it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:37, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Qutb Shahi dynasty

I noticed the first two sentences of the second paragraph of the lead are copied from the Culture section. Not sure when that was done. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:25, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

User:Khestwol edits

Please check this user doing undiscussed controversial edits at ancient Taxila (UNESCO World Heritage Site) and Taxila, Pakistan He is removing historical content and merging both article turning them into article of a city.

Please check his edit history he was involved in nationalist propaganda edits on Pakistani articles.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.141.159.74 (talk) 18:26, 9 March 2022 (UTC) 

March 2022

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

The new editor did not notify you, so I am doing so. Cullen328 (talk) 00:06, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

About the recent edits on Tapurian and Mazandaran related articles…

Hello, HistoryofIran, there has been a user named User:Kelardashtian going around in Tapurian-related articles making suspicious edits. I saw many of his recent edits were reverted, some of them by you, for reasons including inaccuracies, broken English, and copyright infringements. Most recently, he moved the Tapur tribe page to Tapuri tribe, and I think the -i prefix comes from either modern Persian or Latin, which is not relevant in the nomenclature of classical Iranian history, so could you do something about that? Thanks. 2600:1006:B024:2796:5DE1:8CA0:8238:BF7B (talk) 19:31, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I will check it, thanks :-). --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:38, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello, have you decided on a course of action yet? 2600:1006:B054:13F1:6C4F:9FD3:D4E4:E7DC (talk) 20:10, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Tapuri is also used in some English sources, so it's fine I think. I couldn't really see what's more common between the two names. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:30, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Category:Persian-language writers

There seems to be agreement that Iranian writers and poet categories should be renamed into Persian-language named categories. The normal rule is that people writing in the normal language of their country, eg German writers, are not put into eg German language categories. Is it reasonable to apply that rule to contemporary Iranian writers? There are quite a few writers in the Category:Persian-language writers categories who are clearly not Iranian. Rathfelder (talk) 16:59, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

No, I don't think that. I guess we should have both categories. It is true that a lot of non-Iranians wrote in Persian, but ultimately the vast majority of these Persian writers are going to be Iranians. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:42, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Aramaic language in the Sasanian Empire

Hey bro, is it true that Aramaic language was an official and everyday writing language of the Sasanian Empire.

As according to this source it says (used as a reference in Parthian Empire article) :

Chyet, Michael L. (1997). Afsaruddin, Asma; Krotkoff, Georg; Zahniser, A. H. Mathias (eds.). Humanism, Culture, and Language in the Near East: Studies in Honor of Georg Krotkoff. Eisenbrauns. p. 284. ISBN 978-1-57506-020-0. In the Middle Persian period (Parthian and Sasanian Empires), Aramaic was the medium of everyday writing, and it provided scripts for writing Middle Persian, Parthian, Sogdian, and Khwarezmian."

Is this reliable? Xani LapZerin (talk) 21:38, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi. The source seems reliable. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:41, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

So, Aramaic was an official language of Sasanian Empire? Xani LapZerin (talk) 00:26, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Based on the source, I wouldn't say. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:35, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

IP canvass

FYI, in case you were not aware. Best, CMD (talk) 03:01, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Damn, what a mess. Thanks for notifying me. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:09, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Disruptive Editing on Wikipedia by HistoryofIran. Not started by me, but the person responsible failed to notify you. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Page-move cleanup

• Mokri tribe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

When you undid Aghajgalazara's page-move, the change to the lede spelling remained. Obviously I have no objection to undoing undiscussed disputed page-moves, but probably best to be consistent. DMacks (talk) 14:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I see. I'll change it now then, thanks. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:53, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Semnani language(s)

Now with source! :)

@2a02:1807:3720:500:5c9b:50f0:873d:f945: Thanks, but could you add the name of the work as well? Currently it just mentions Lecoq and a page, which is unclear. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Where does Daylamite language fit in the Western Iranian languages?

The article for the Daylamite language is a stub. It is no where to be found in the Western Iranian languages article. Where does it fit in it? The infobox in the Daylamite language article seems uncertain if it is either a Persian dialect or a Caspian language, while the article itself and the article for Daylamite peoples suggests it is a Northwestern Iranian language. If you have any knowledge on this subject about Daylamites you could help make some additions on the page. 2600:1006:B06F:622C:490B:1F0D:8BB6:9C1F (talk) 05:39, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi. It's a Caspian language, i.e. (north)western Iranian. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:23, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Socks?

Hi, do you think that CeRcVa13 and Luka imer are the same person?--Bbb23 (talk) 14:12, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Bbb23: Hi. Yes, I have a half-complete SPI which shows some resemblances, but I just need to know what edits CeRcVa13 made to the Mushki on the 8th January to be sure, since the amount of info he added seems very similar to that of Luka imer [6] [7] --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:21, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The second diff is citing the same book, Donald Rayfield's Edge of Empires: A History of Georgia, which both accounts cite a fair amount. The material cited in the second diff by Luka imer is from two pages of the book, 12 and 18. The material cited by CRV13 is from page 12, and is an extensive copyright violation, which is why it was rev/del'd. Look at this link about the book, and use Google Preview to see the actual text, and scroll down to page 12. CRV13 pretty much copied the entire second paragraph beginning with "We have evidence ...". I think I have enough to block even without a report at SPI, but it would make it a bit easier for me to block in response to a report. Because you're much more knowledgeable about the subject matter, your evidence will support the block. Please let me know if you're going to file a report and about when. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Appreciate it. I will first be able to do it tommorow unfortunately, as I'm not going to be home for the rest of the day now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:36, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Bbb23: There we go Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CeRcVa13. That took a bit longer than a day, my bad. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:00, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

رفع خطای بود و دقیق سازی نقشه ای نادرست

سلام در مورد نقشه دوره ماد که برگردانید یا حذف کردید شما که تاریخ ایران را می دانید حتما آگاه هستید که نقشه هایی که اکنون کشیده می شوند برای دوره های تاریخی کهن و دریای عرب بکار می برند اشتباه هست در هیچ نوشته و نقشه کهنی بویژه در زبان عربی و فارسی دریای عرب تا سال 1937 وجود ندارد و هرودوت و تمامی مورخین تا قرن شانزدهم شمال اقیانوس هند و دریای عرب و عمان را دریای اریترا می نامیدند پس نقشه ای که من گذاشتم کاملا علمی و دقیق اسا و انرا بیشتر از 15 نفر از مورخان تدوین کرده اند. از شما خیلی بعید بود لطفا در مورد اطلس تاریخی ایران 1950 که زیر نظر یونسکو منتشر شده است نگاه کنید [8]

Historical Atlas of Iran - Plate No. 04

Cultural sec (talk) 10:42, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understand the Persian script. I understand your concerns, but the map you uploaded was of lower quality. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:28, 11 April 2022 (UTC)