User talk:Fred the Oyster/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

File:JanWilkensBulldog.gif

Hi there, thanks for notifying me. I currently claim ownership of this image as I had it scanned in for Internet use. The photographer who took this is a deceased friend of my uncle. - Ajstyles_tna_roh(talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC).

Unfortunately you cannot simply scan a newspaper image, upload it, then claim copyright. The copyright is held by the newspaper who printed it. If by some process I'm not aware of you do hold the copyright then I'm afraid that it's up to you to prove it. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 14:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Dominique McElligott.jpg

Was the way I listed this file for deletion incorrect? Woogee (talk) 20:14, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Not that I could see. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 20:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I was just wondering why you added further tags on the page. Woogee (talk) 21:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Belt and braces :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 21:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Need advice/help to create an image

Hi! Am terrible with images but want to create an image of this. Haven't a clue how to go about doing so, or where to ask, so was wondering if you could help or send me in the right direction. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Copy the image from that location. Reduce it in size down to about 300px (along the longest side). Upload with a non-free book cover license and credit the University of Washington as the source. You'd also have to fill out a fair use rationale. The university only has the copyright of the picture of the book, not the book itself so if access could be gained to the book simply photographing it yourself (or someone else) is enough to licence it yourself under GFDL or Creative Commons. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 21:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

It was published in 1865. Are books/images published that early treated differently, or no? Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:09, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not even close to being an expert but I would have thought that means that the book's copyright has lapsed and is now in the public domain. Unfortunately the picture of the book isn't. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 22:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. That makes sense. I'll use one of the other images we already have on Commons. Much easier! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

"n. Unfortunately the picture of the book isn't." - I wouldn't be so sure of that. As per National Portrait Gallery copyright conflicts, the issue is not yet resolved. Parrot of Doom 11:17, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

You just tagged an image i uploaded?

With the request i convert it to .svg, If i do then i just need to tag the .gif for deletion? Is that right? thanks mark nutley (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

(ec}:There's two alternatives, the first being to request deletion, though that is by no means mandatory, it's up to you as the author. The second is to upload the svg version with the same filename (different extension) and add this tag to the original file {{vva|originalfile.svg}}. As the author which way you go is entirely up to you. Thanks. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 18:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Issue i`m afraid, my sofware does not convert to .svg, would .png do? It can`t be used for spreading a virus like a .gif can mark nutley (talk) 18:40, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Which software is it you are using? Though you don't have to worry about it if you can't generate an SVG version. The tag puts the image into a category where graphists can see which files need converting and someone else may do it. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 18:43, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I have CS2 and PSP7, usually i use .tga images (for games) but have never used the .svg format before, if someone else does convert will my article suddenly be without it`s image ? Thanks mark nutley (talk) 19:07, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

It will all depend on which functions you used in Photoshop. If you generated the lines etc with the pen tool then they will be in vector form, in which case you can open the file in Illustrator which can output SVG files. If you simply used something like the pencil tool then there are no vectors, just pixels and a direct output of a vector image won't be possible. What I would recommend though is, when designing graphs, using the graphing functions in Illustrator. Although the dialogue box is a bit archaic and is best used by simply copying and pasting data from Excel, it does have some nice graph outputs, all in the vector realm too. Alternatively if you "place" your original PSD file into a new Illustrator document and then live trace it (delete all the text and replace it with original Illustrator text), you may find it a reasonable way of converting. Personally though I'd do it manually as it's more likely to get an accurate result.

No, your article wouldn't end up with a missing image, as the usual way it's done is that if someone does a vector conversion then they replace all versions of the original raster image with the new image in all the articles it appeared in. They would then leave the above vva template on your original. Some may ask for the original's deletion, some don't. Personally I don't. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Cool, thats good to know :) Thanks for your time mark nutley (talk) 19:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Karunasena Kodituwakku

Photo of Dr.Karunasena Kodituwakku, I am the copyright holder of this work.

Kind Regards

Major Keith —Preceding unsigned comment added by Major Keith (talk • contribs) 19:23, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Apology

Sorry for my "Self-aim" content, which I would like for that section to be taken down, but I was having a bad day at the time. What more is there to say? MH 02:45, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

H Harmon

There's been a free image request icon in the infobox for years. No free images exist or likely ever will. What's the dispute process for media? possible to use a Dvd cover? - Stillwaterising (talk) 17:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Whilst she's still alive there's always the possibility. What I suggest you do is use the {{hangon|"rationale"}} template with your rationale and let an admin decide. Though basically using non-free images for living people is generally frowned on for the reason I've stated, that includes DVD coveers etc. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, added hangon. Are you really an oyster? - Stillwaterising (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I added hangon but it was removed. What can I do next? - Stillwaterising (talk) 22:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

How do I get a deletion review? Stillwaterising (talk)

I've restored the hangon tab as the admin was wrong to remove it. In which case the admins wandering through the list of CSDs will come across it and make a decision. Alternatively there's always Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. I'm sure the denizens of that page could give some input. Alsos the listing the image at Wikipedia:Files for deletion where it would get a full discussion, subject to editors being interested of course. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Great idea that WP:NFR. You've taught me something as I didn't know that place was there. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:34, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

That's cool. Hangon is a no-go, it's not a speedy delete. I think you the admin should see the tag an hold off on the deletion. - Stillwaterising (talk) 23:57, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

(outdent) I brought up questions with your deletion rationale. You might want to look here. - Stillwaterising (talk) 12:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright

Can you please help me to add the proper tag to the image you recently edited? I just want to get this behind me, but no one seems to know what tag to put on the photo. This is counterproductive. I appreciate your help. Timneu22 (talk) 14:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

It would all depend on the specifics of the permission you were given by the copyright holder. For now I'd put a {{Non-free 2D art}} tag with a fair use rationale then when the permission is available, along with the specifics, you can change the tag to one more appropriate for WP. I'd also leave a note on the page about the pending permissions arrival in case some "jobs-worth" comes along and plays silly buggers. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 15:01, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but another question: "then when the permission is available..." I already have the permission! The person who took the photo said "use it, just credit me." I tried this and the photo was immediately deleted. Will the Non-free 2D art tag work? Thank you again. Timneu22 (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not so sure because I don't think the problem is gaining the permission from the photographer, but gaining permission from the owner of the plaque. The US has some strange copyright laws with regard to statues etc out in public and as I'm English I'm not too au fait with them. If you'd taken the picture over here then there would be no problem but I really can't comment on the situation over there, other than to say it's silly! So for the time being I'd go with the above 2D art tag and an appropriate FUR. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:21, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks. As far as copyright on US images, I'm not sure, but the Baseball Hall of Fame encourages people to take pictures and do with them what they please! Timneu22 (talk) 16:36, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi can you please help me remove some of the issues you've raised regarding photographs etc? new to this and would appreciate your help. thanks. (Doxiadis (talk) 20:02, 2 March 2010 (UTC))

I wish I had your gift for civil invective...

Dealing with a troll right now at Talk:White supremacy and I wish I could deflate it as well as you do. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 14:17, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I went one better ;) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 15:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, that got fixed posthaste! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Judiciary of Italy.jpg

You informed me that this file (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Judiciary_of_Italy.jpg) lacks information on its copyright status. I am new to wikipedia and do not understand what exactly I should clarify: I created the image (it is a rather stupid image, actually...). Is there anything more I should add? Salvio giuliano (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

All you need to do is have a read of WP:ICT, select the most appropriate license you want to use for your image. Then just copy and paste the right template into the description of your image and remove the deletion template. Hope that helps. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:36, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, you have been most kind. Salvio giuliano (talk) 01:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Re:Boxing image, OTRS and Bret Newton

Technically, the OTRS message is not sound for any image. To quote the OTRS volunteer who initially dealt with the ticket, "Please note that as far as I understand, the permission holds only for the initial image (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pound4pound/2278347719/), which doesn't need any since it is CC-BY. For the other pictures, it is only a permission to use on wikipedia, and therefore unsufficient for a Commons release." Any image using this ticket as a claim for a free license should be nominated for deletion. J Milburn (talk) 22:03, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Ta very muchly, I suspected it may be something like that. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 22:07, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		For your valuable assistance and contributions at the Graphic Lab. bahamut0013wordsdeeds 03:03, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah.

I looked it up on google and I found it. The site said 'All rights reserved'. Not sure what that means. GG360 (talk) 12:02, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It means it's copyrighted and not suitable for Wikipedia. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 12:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Business

Fred, get lost unless you know what your talking about. Dont laugh at me in my face, please. Pretty please. Its an easy position, but grow up. Ceoil ^sláinte 04:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I know that calling an editor a "cunt" usually ends up with a block. So what is it I'm not understanding? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 11:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

And [::::::::::I can't help thinking that this is a case of an Irishman being good with a shovel. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 12:36, 6 March 2010 (UTC) is not block worthy? You turned up with no reading of what happened and taunted me, on racial grounds because MF is you friend. That makes you less than nothing in my book. Drunken Irish-man? An epitath you already saw MF use? Go back to tagging images and leave me the fuck alone, you snide myspace twerp. Ceoil ^sláinte 12:59, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

You do keep digging that hole deeper don't ya? Gross incivility, personal attacks, legal threats. Oh and in case you get all uppity again, my maternal grandfather was Irish. So where is that wit you were waxing lyrical about? So far all I've seen from you are epithets and self-pity. Now I suggest you walk away for a few hours and calm down, you are well on the way to being blocked. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 13:03, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Way to go to miss the point, Fred. I love it when the self proclaimed high and mighty jump in mid way sans clue and quote WP:THIS, WP:THAT. Normally a bait is followed by gross incivility, thats how people are. Legal threats? Dont be retarded. epithets? I used that word already. Your maternal grandfather was Irish? Give me break. Ceoil ^sláinte 13:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

No point missed, you don't have one that makes any sense. legal threats? What makes you think I need to be high and mighty to maintain this exchange with you? Obviously you don't know what an epithet as you question it. "Cunt", "motherfucker", "twerp", "bastard". Need I go on. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for you to either meltdown or to toddle off for some Dioralyte. Last night's session must surely be dehydrating the hell out of you. As for my Grandfather, do you really expect me to care what you think? Your derision won't alter the facts of familial genetics one iota, in fact it made me smile. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 13:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Ach, you are hopeless. to maintain this exchange with you, dude you attacked me, and are continuing to do so. & If you are so secure in your familial genetics why mention it. My impression is that you sole motive is to be friends with MF. Ceoil ^sláinte 13:29, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Ah, so now you're the poor defenceless defender of the Irish nation who is being attacked by everyone? As for mentioning my lineage, that's very simple, I knew it, you didn't. Now you know that I am part Irish it puts my words into a slightly more understandable context, i.e. I'm not racist against the Irish. And for clarity, yes I consider myself to be friends with MF, an albeit online friendship. I respect him, his work and his attitude. He is neutral, non-partisan, intelligent and good at what he does, I just wish you were his equal. That way WP would benefit. At the moment I do not know what benefit you are bringing. Your contribution history is akin to the small print of buying shares "past performance is not a guarantee of future performance". As for my contribution history, well, I don't have anything to be ashamed of in there. Your thing is words, mine is imaging. That does not make it any less useful to the project. Don't forget too that one contribution edit in the imaging world can represent hours of work.

Meanwhile, you've had your say, your plaintive bleat. Can I presume that you are now done? Or is this going to continue interminably wherein you throw some more unimaginative insults my way and then think that you've sorted me out? Because at the moment you are doing the literary equivalent of bringing a knife to a gunfight. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 13:56, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Fred, pls, as a favor; leave 'em alone, and let Ceoil and Malleus work this out. They both use extremely blunt language when things get hot, and as long as it stays between them, the rest of us should stay out, don't exacerbate the situation, and hope it doesn't happen again. They are both valued FA writers, big boys, and they can work it out without outside interference. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:44, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, can't resist it when someone places a nail upright, I just have to hammer it home. Apart from which I'm sick of the double standards placed on MF. Had he said even one of the things Ceoil came out with he would have got a very long block, but because he chooses to not to defend himself it all gets shoved under the rug. Ceoil should have been blocked for a litany of personal attacks on MF and an unveiled legal threat to someone else. Yet surprisingly he doesn't even get a slap on the wrists from any of the many admins who have MF's talk page watch-listed. Not to mention the fact that his oafish rhetoric pissed me off personally. MF is, of course, entitled to respond or not respond on his own talk page, but as you can see the above is my talk page. On here I don't take shit from anyone, at least not without a response. On the other hand... fancy a decaff mocha? :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 18:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I am also very sympathetic to the badgering Malleus has endured from admins, but Ceoil has endured same. There was an unfortunate misundersanding there, and we don't want to lose either of them. Let them sort it, without making it worse. If it had extended beyond the two of them, I would agree ... but since it stayed between them, let's not make it worse, please? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:03, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I promise I won't continue it on MF's page, I cannot promise the same if it arrives on my page. Also, sometimes the feedlines are too good to resist. So it's a mocha just for one then? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 19:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I take my coffee stronger than mocha, and I've already had my quota for the day :) Thanks for understanding. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

You mean there's coffee in a mocha? Damn, there was me thinking that was some mighty powerful liquid chocolate! --Fred the Oyster (talk) 19:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Whoever discovered that missed the boat; coffee is for waking up, chocolate is for other things. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:13, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

SVG images

Hi Fred! You tagged two images I uploaded (File:Achard.svg and File:Keyser.svg) with {{svg}} templates. I haven't uploaded many SVG files in the past, so don't know whether I'm doing it right or not, but as far as I know these are SVG format. Looking at your edits, you're obviously a lot more clued up on this than I am, so can you help? Regards, matt (talk) 20:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Matt, if anything demonstrates how not clued up I am, this is. I do apologise. You did absolutely nothing wrong, I just wish the same could be said for me. The two tags were obviously early symptoms of early onset Alzheimer's and were a total brain fart. I am sorry for confusing you like that, and I'll stand in the corner whilst muttering "I'm not gonna do that again!". And for good measure I think I'll go get my eyes checked to as I could have sworn the extensions were PNG! :) Keep up the good work mate! --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Aha! No worries! matt (talk) 00:00, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Pink Floyd Overlinking

Is it really overlinking? It seems useful to me because it connected the names to teh faces - which you can't do in the text - and avoided people then having to "hunt" for the link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.240.145.183 (talk) 16:38, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Skip Humphrey

Alright, I'll let the Skip Humphrey picture go, since you're right. But can you tell me if this picture...

File:StanfordParris.png

would be allowed? Because clearly he is in a committee hearing at the capitol, and it is from the C-SPAN library; so wouldn't THAT count as PD? (By the way, I apologize for uploading these all of these non-permission files, and any trouble I may have caused you.) -BLM Platinum (talk) 17:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

(ec) Yes you would be right and me wrong for that one. But what you have to be careful of with C-Span is to look for the organisation licensing as that is what Wikipedia is classed as. Some of the videos that are PD for individuals are not for organisations (not including the federal footage of course). Similarly, be careful with the use of frame grabs as their licensing only relates to videos, and hence the inclusion of the C-Span logo. They also require full attribution, not just an anonymous link. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Boonmark.jpg ?

Hello Fred, I got this message on unfree file from you... Question is how can I verify the source since the picture hasn't been published elsewhere other than Wikipedia. It was originally posted in the Thai Wikipedia article บุญมาก_ศิริเนาวกุล and subsequently here in the English version of the article. Thanks. MiCRoSCoPiC^eaRthLinG (talk) 02:29, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Tags

Hi... I'm the one who removed tags from the page on P90X, because it's been repeatedly vandalized, including with tags by anonymous users who apparently have something against the topic itself. Yours was clearly legitimate -- and I apologize if removing it goes against protocol -- so I wanted to ask you what you think needs to be done to this page to make it acceptable to you. The creator of this page no longer seems to be active on Wikipedia. But it's undergone multiple edits, including a major one I did a few weeks ago to deal with exactly the problems people were complaining about (a neutral point of view and lack of legitimate sources). This topic is clearly notable -- there are articles about it in major publications nearly every day -- and judging from the nearly 5,000 daily page views it gets, users clearly want this information. There are also apparently quite a few interested users, myself included, who are willing to put the effort in to improve it. So I think it would help a lot if, instead of just tagging it, you would state what specific changes you think it needs. (I've also contacted Fastily, who seems to have similar concerns about the page.) Thanks, BHealthy (talk) 19:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Emblem of India

There is an error in File:Emblem of India.svg that needs to be fixed! The correct version should not include the columns below the Lion emblem and the Text should be in old format. I tried to fix it in Inkscape but the elements cannot be ungrouped properly! --JovianEye (talk) 04:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

This is what is should look like. See here. --JovianEye (talk) 04:59, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

All done :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 05:09, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

I reduced the proportion of the text further. Anyways, thanks a lot for the effort! ;) --JovianEye (talk) 05:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, yes I missed that. That'll teach me to pull all-nighters at my age :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Logo armedangels weiss print.jpg

Hi Fred. The image referred to has been tagged by you as orphaned. I am new to wikipedia and had just created my first contribution which currently needs to be re-worked. I imagine that you have tagged the file as orphaned because of this? Or is there another reason why you tagged the image? What can I do to have this tag removed? JLude (talk) 12:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the explanation! And thank you for converting the image for me! (JLude (talk) 09:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC))

Next they'll spank me

Shoot, you know I get punchy this time of night anyway :) Now I have to stay awake and watch. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:22, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

well I've been ill all day, slept all day, now it's 4am and I'm wide a-bloody-wake. I saw the section header, saw the shite storm and couldn't resist. Mischievous is mu middle name (when I can spell it correctly). --Fred the Oyster (talk) 04:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh, well ... it's gone ... I wonder what I missed in the last two hours of that drama fest. Maybe there's some fun at Malleus's house ... off to check my watchlist ... thanks for the laugh! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

It lasted all of 10 minutes I'm afraid. I do wish that people would allow more humour into their lives. being po-faced all the time must be miserable for them. As for MF's gaff (you'll have to look that one up, or watch Snatch), it seems very quiet tonight :( --Fred the Oyster (talk) 05:44, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Be careful ...

... not to get caught in the crossfire Fred. I'm being drummed out of here, but there's no need for you to follow me. Live long and prosper. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Nah, wouldn't do that, you'll be here for a bit yet. As for Crossfires, I prefer the Grand Voyager at my time of life ;) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 02:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I've answered you...

... on my talk page --Beao 15:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Are you taking the piss?

I'm beleagured, and all you can do is make jokes. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Life is too serious to be taken seriously :P --Fred the Oyster (talk) 01:54, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Inaccurate SVGing of Jya and arc

Thank you for your efforts in transforming into SVG format images not in this format. In rendering the image "Jya and arc.jpg" in the SVG format a few inaccuracies have crept in.

1. The focus of the original image is the arc (in red) and the line segment (in green). These must have a much higher thickness than all other elements of the image. Ideally all other elements may be rendered as thin lines.
2. The label to the green line segment is "jya (half-chord)" and not "jya (half-minutes)".
3. The label "arc" adjacent to the red arc must be placed closer to the arc.

Kindly incorporate these in the SVG format and upload a corrected version of Jya and arc.svg . Krishnachandranvn (talk) 00:34, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

All sorted. The black and pink lines are 1pt, the blue lines are 3pt and the red and green are 4pt. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 00:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Krishnachandranvn (talk) 01:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

I didn't notice this earlier. There is one more typos in the SVG file for jya and arc. The entry '3238 minutes' is incorrect. It should be replaced by '3438 minutes'. Kindly do this correction also. Thanks ... Krishnachandranvn (talk) 08:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I must have been having a really bad day when I did this illustration :) All sorted now. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 13:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikiquette alerts

Hello, Fred the Oyster. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. LordPiratez (talk) 22:02, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Distribution of Christians in Indian states.svg

Hi, there seems to be an error in File:Distribution of Christians in Indian states.svg. It colors West Bengal as having a Christian population of >50%, but the source image you based it on, File:Distribution of Christians in Indian states.JPG, colors West Bengal as being <1% Christian, which is also reported by Christianity in West Bengal. +Angr 12:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

All sorted. That happened when I was trying to sort out a problem with the original svg template. I deleted a bit and that section got re-coloured without me noticing. Sorry, but it's all sorted now. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 13:36, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for making the change, but it's still slightly wrong, actually. There's a tiny little corner in what I think is West Bengal that's coloured dark red and shouldn't be:

• 
  JPG file, which matches census data
• 
  SVG file

-- Radagast3 (talk) 09:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad. I wasn't concentrating, that and the fact I don't actually know where West Bengal is. All sorted now. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 09:58, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again! -- Radagast3 (talk) 10:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

That image looks like a fat man doing a karate kick. Sorry :( Parrot of Doom 14:16, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

LMAO, I think I'll have some of what you're smoking :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 14:46, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Distribution of Christians in Indian states

on this map there is one missing state, i.e. maharashtra which should be colored green as per indian census maharashtra has christian more than 2 %, and in this file you showed it as yellow mean less than 1 %. please update the image with correct map

Dsouzamarshall (talk)

armedangels article

Hey, You tagged my first article a couple of weeks ago. I've made changes since - could you possibly check it out again? Let me know if you think there are any other necessary edits. Thanks. (JLude (talk) 13:42, 24 March 2010 (UTC))

I've removed some of them and done some copy editing of the article. One thing that does need doing though is sorting out the layout per WP:MOS. The main thing is that the lede of the article is supposed to be a summary of what the article consists of, i.e. there shouldn't be anything in it that isn't in the body of the article. You need to fill out the body with a more detailed explanation of things that are in the lede, e.g. how the celebrities came to be involved etc. I hope that helps. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:32, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Roderic Noble

Hello I have just read the message which stipulates that the article on Roderic Noble should be to delete. I am against his abolition, all the infomations says on the article comes from Katie Noble, the daugther of Roderic, and I have proofs, then I consider stupid the abolition of this article.

Circle dilemma

Hi Oyster I made this polar grid in Illustrator, but do you know why there's an illusional "dot" in the middle when all 6 lines cross in the center? I tried making the lines thinner but the "dot" didn't get much smaller? I consult you as an expert of geometry and SVG.

--Shandris^{the azylean} 18:02, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

LOL I'm neither an expert on geometry nor svg, but I do know why this happens. It's because the lines are all a constant width. All that 'black' has to go somewhere when they meet and it shows as a new circle. The only way to stop it, which actually looks worse than this effect, is to have the lines not cross in the middle. You use a line that is only the radius of the circle rather than the diameter. Then if you direct the lines in to the centre then you either taper them to a point right near the centre or you have an increasing taper right from the start. So basically you are reducing the width of the line right where they meet. Even will all that all you'll succeed in doing is reducing the size of the circle, you'll never be able to stop it. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 18:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for replying; but how do I taper them? Convert to outline and the squeeze the ends of the line going towards the center? --Shandris^{the azylean} 19:09, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

That's one way. Or there's reducing the point size of the strokes, or reducing the number of straight lines. All will be a compromise as you can only reduce the effect, you can't stop it. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 22:52, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I see then. Btw lol do you got a job? You're always on Wikipedia and ready to SVGize. --Shandris^{the azylean} 15:07, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Heheheh, I'm a designer so I'm usually stuck in front of Photoshop or InDesign most of the time. I'm doing a lot of SVGs because I'm trying to learn Illustrator and it gives me good practise I wouldn't otherwise get. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:30, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

InDesign? Doing newspapers? I'm quite an expert on both Illy and PS ;9 --Shandris^{the azylean} 17:33, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh $DEITY forbid, not newspapers :) Basically anything and everything from books to magazine articles, to flyers, to posters and the occasional album cover. I also do image restoration, compositing and what seems to be a helluva lot of masking! I like to think I'm reasonably well up on Photoshop having been using it since v2.5 I think—the version before layers came in, I remember getting very excited when we had that new feature to play with—and being such an old fart I'm now trying to get used to CS4. And what do the buggers do... they announce CS5 out in April. They better not change everything around again, old buggers like me get used to things being in the same place! --Fred the Oyster (talk) 02:30, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I like updates as long as they don't change too much. I like everything modern and sleek. I've no idea what Photoshop CS5 has in store for us. Who is $DEITY? --Shandris^{the azylean} 10:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

ironic really

...since I actually went to Salford College for several years in the early 90s. I guess standards haven't improved... Parrot of Doom 20:14, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Fred the Oyster. You have new messages at Smartse's talk page.
Message added 20:08, 28 March 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Smartse (talk) 20:08, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Fresh opportunity to slap {{vectorize}} on a graphic

Did you know that (gasp) an administrator has posted this flowchart as a JPEG file? If you are quick you could be first to tell him that "it contains information that could be stored more efficiently and/or accurately in the SVG format." Go for it! - Pointillist (talk) 22:55, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Figured out the rather easy way to create graphs in Illustrator yet? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Well you clearly haven't mastered much, Mr/Ms Moral-High-Ground, because every time I check one of your SVGs it turns out you've converted the fonts to paths, as a result of which your SVG file is larger than the PNG it replaces, and can't be edited. But you get bonus points for tagging Kafziel's flowchart: I really thought you'd duck that challenge. Maybe you really are a mancunian rather than a hanger-on? Anyway, one day when you're not feeling so arsey we ought to get the SVG font rendering sorted. - Pointillist (talk) 23:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I use paths instead of fonts so I can guarantee that the viewer can see the text as intended. I have little interest in whether anyone wants to edit them afterwards. If they do all they need do is delete those paths and replace the text they wanted to edit in the first place. Job done. Likewise the file being larger than the png it replaces is irrelevant to me. The whole point of svg is quality, at least as far as I'm concerned anyway, especially when printed. As for the font renderer, well I'll leave that to someone else. These days my programming skills don't extend much beyond javascript, php and 4nt batch language. Oh, and I almost forgot. There's no way I could ever take the moral high ground. I don't have any morals, they just tend to get in the way of things I want to do. So, Illustrator, graphs, figured it out. That ring a bell? Or would you like a half-sentence training session? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:21, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

There's no need. I just had a brief moment of doubt: maybe you weren't a pillock after all, so I thought I should check. Thanks for the reassurance. - Pointillist (talk) 23:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm always happy to help the needy. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

We're all pillocks Pointillist, it's just a matter of degree, I'm somewhat on Fred's side here with regards to programming though. I was for very many years a professional computer programmer, but it bores the pants off me now. Real programming was about bit twiddling in machine code, and if you were lucky you had an assembler to help. Having said that though I do quite like the newer versions of PhP, since it began to incorporate some of the OO stuff. Malleus Fatuorum 20:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

You will all be happy to know I corrected my typo and updated a new svg version to the Commons. Please note that I only changed it because of the typo... I'm a proud Luddite when it comes to image formats, unless it's .cdr or .dwg. :D Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 22:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually that's just a lossy JPEG wrapped in SVG tags, Kafziel. Personally I don't care (its just an internal file anyway) but it still violates Saint Joan-of-Oyster's self-imposed mission to outlaw all bitmap images. - Pointillist (talk) 22:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Pointillist is just tetchy either because his blood sugar is low or because he couldn't figure out how to create a graph in Illustrator. Touching really. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:04, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... I didn't really understand anything he just said anyway. I find .jpg extensions comforting. Obviously, this file isn't meant to have widespread use (I just quickly created it with MS Paint to illustrate a point in a talk thread) and as far as I know I don't have any software to create svg images on my home PC. But at least now the typo is fixed! Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 23:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if CorelDraw will output SVG (I doubt it) and I know AutoCad doesn't. There's always Inkscape but it's horrible to use and a bit of a 'hammer to crack a nut' in this instance. On the other hand the tag does put the image in a category where other graphists might do the conversion for you. In fact if it's a quiet day tomorrow I might do it. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kafziel. I was tetchy because "Fred the Oyster" tagged my file File:RfA stats work 2010-01-10 T1541.png with the contains information that could be stored more efficiently and/or accurately in the SVG format tag. I have five objections to this:

1. The tag is irrelevant, because this graphic – like yours – was for internal use and wasn't part of the encyclopaedia.
2. The tag was inappropriate, because an SVG version would only be smaller if the text was rendered as native text rather than as paths.
3. The tag was ill-advised, because Fred the Oyster has never contributed an SVG graphic that uses native text, and in fact knows that it is very difficult to contribute SVGs that use native text.
4. The tag was therefore deliberately offensive, because Fred the Oyster already knew that s/he could not create a better SVG.
5. Fred the Oyster's defence of the tag intentionally promoted meat-puppetry, because Fred believed that his/her earlier sycophantic support of Mancunian editors would encourage them to support his/her current position.

Therefore Fred the Oyster is discredited. - Pointillist (talk) 00:23, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Whereas Pointillist is just a whiner who can't differentiate between "could" and "does". He is now going to go away, find somewhere else and discuss his outlook on SVG with someone else who may be interested in his viewpoint, because I most certainly aren't. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 00:42, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Jesus what a WP:DICK. That's a lot to read into a simple svg-tag! How dare you Fred, what's next, kicking a Haitian puppy? LOL. PointIMissed needs to read the little notice that pops up when you edit any page-If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here. All text that you did not write yourself, except brief excerpts, must be available under terms consistent with Wikipedia's Terms of Use before you submit it. Problem solved. Oh, and maybe a quick read at WP:OWN and WP:AGF. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 00:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar!

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		I present this barnstar to Fred the Oyster for his tireless contributions at the Illustration workshop and Photography workshop. Wikipedia needs many more skilled graphists like you! JovianEye (talk) 06:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

He already has a frickin barnstar, look at the frontpage xD --Shandris^{the azylean} 08:09, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I did see that, but I knew he deserved another one! :) --JovianEye (talk) 13:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Well thank you all the same, it's much appreciated :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 15:09, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

As I'm already here, I'd also like to agree with the others and add that you have well earned your barnstar for the hard, non-stop work at the GL! :) Cheers, Quibik (talk) 18:29, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Question

How did you make the U-shape so perfect and slanted? With your graphics tablet? --Shandris^{the azylean} 14:51, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I just used the bezier curve handles and the original image as a guideline. I can't use my tablet at the moment. I'm just waiting for a cheap one to come up on eBay. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

And the "beak"? Are you just adding points to the end of the line where it curves? I think it's difficult making a smooth (and correct) bezier with those handles it always comes up edgy in some places. --Shandris^{the azylean} 16:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

The 'beak' I just did a 3pt stroke with an approximate shape, then outlined the stroke and just used the handles to conform it, adding and subtracting anchor points as and when required. The trick with the handles is to know when to use the alt key and when not to :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 17:10, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

The Photographer's Barnstar

		The Photographer's Barnstar
		I Arteyu hereby award Fred the Oyster the Photographer's Barnstar for promptly fulfilling my request on the Photography workshop. Nice job! Keep up the great work! Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 13:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Peacock symbol Burma.PNG

Work so far. Still needs little tweaks here and there. Comments?

File:040411.JPG

I don't know if this helps or hinders, I will try to find the original

thumb|150px|Yangon just a minute... If you are going to work on this image, check out File:Burmapeacockforhistory.svg as it is about 90% there.--Svgalbertian (talk) 00:42, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I had already seen that image but had discounted it as a rather poorly done trace (most likely due to a low resolution original). I'm about halfway through the new one, creating all elements from scratch rather than trying to trace it. Though I have to admit to being a tad hampered after trading up to Windows 7 only to find that my serial Wacom Intuous is no longer supported and is now a desk ornament :( --Fred the Oyster (talk) 09:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Windows 7 rocks, I use the 64bit one ;) --Shandris^{the azylean} 09:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I'm using. I've installed it on my main machine, my laptop and my HTPC and so far the only bite in the ass is the graphics tablet... it's a big bite though, I'm so used to having it. Using the mouse is killing me. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 10:42, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

That India Mint image is only 1KB, how did you manage to make it so small? My polar grid SVGs only consist of lines but are still around 3-4 KBs (no big deal, I know, but still xD) --Shandris^{the azylean} 15:59, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Dreidel dreidel dreidel... ;) My suggestions (yeah, this was my request about three years ago) are to make the peacock beak a little pointier and the eye patterns more ice-cream-cone shaped. More on that as I wake up. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 01:02, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts on the peacock: the bird is missing its tuft (don't know if that's the right word) on its head – a quite distinct feature of the peacock. I'd also make the eye slightly bigger. How about using a gradient on the bird's tail and the neck, as in the PNG (or have you left it out on purpose?). Hope this helps, Quibik (talk) 18:29, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

My problem is that I've never actually seen the proper emblem so don't know how much of the real thing it incorporates. If I were doing this from scratch I would indeed take into account the real thing. At the moment though I don't know what I'm supposed to be illustrating. The real thing or replicating the official emblem. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I won't duck the issue, give this a gander: http://flagspot.net/flags/mm-old.html Cocky, aren't I? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I would make the tips of the feathers a bit pointier and include the "tuff", but good work so far! --Svgalbertian (talk) 22:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Blackbeard

I note that you're rather skilled at producing svg images. There are a few images on here of Blackbeard's flag, but frankly they're a load of shite. If I scanned the proper image, would you be able to create one for me? Its only black, white, and red, very basic shapes. No patterns or anything. There's no rush so don't be afraid to tell me to sod off :) Parrot of Doom 22:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

No probs, it would be a pleasure. I'm shite at actual drawing, but I have no probs replicating or combining existing images. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks, here's the scan. Black background, white skeleton and spear, blood red heart and drops. Parrot of Doom 12:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

BTW I don't have a tablet or anything, but I'm ok with a pencil if that helps you anytime :) Parrot of Doom 23:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Well it's not Marlon Brando but will this do? ;) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Archives

Regarding this [1], the archive list is in the talkpage header. Including it again in a separate box list just creates unnecessary clutter on an already busy talk page. <>Multi‑Xfer<> (talk) 17:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments made by you at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Petrolsoft Corporation

Hello, Fred the Oyster. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Stillwaterising (talk • contribs) 03:06, 1 April 2010

• You've been a naughty, naughty boy, so you must be punished. May God have mercy on your soul. Malleus Fatuorum 05:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Fred. Don't be concerned by MF's words (tongue in cheek). WP:WQA is definitely not about punishment. WP:WQA does not exist for the purpose of punishing Users. It exists so that a good-natured process of mediation might make life easier for Wikipedia Users. People who visit WP:WQA are not administrators. The ideal outcome is where the User who is the subject of a complaint will say OK, I see someone objected to my behaviour. In future I will do things a bit differently. Best regards. Dolphin51 (talk) 07:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

As I put in my post on my WQA 'admonishment', I find it to be the funniest place on WP, also the most toothless. Thanks for your calming words but they aren't necessary as I'm afraid I just don't take that place seriously enough to be worried. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 08:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Autofellatio

You removed an image I placed on the Autofellatio article on the basis that you thought that it was a copyright violation. I researched and found this on the commons site, and it seems to have no dispute and has appropriate rights for use on Wikipedia. What am I missing? Atom (talk) 09:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

A very long and acrimonious discussion and a true understanding of what WP:OR is. There was nothing wrong with the image you replaced, which was done specifically for the article and was agreed to by several editors. Your change has gone against that consensus. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 09:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be no copyright dispute over the better image then. Your edit summary was in fact, just a revert because you disagreed, it seems.

The article does not have a consensus on the image, obviously. I have discussed this specific issue at great length in the past. The general guideline for WP:OI is meant for different circumstances. The specific case of self-images (which is different from editor contributed images) for use in sexuality articles requires different guidelines. We at the Sexology and Sexuality project have discussed this before. Generally I try to remove self-portrait (especially penis pictures) as quickly as possible. In this case the fact that it was discussed somewhat in advance is a factor, I agree. But obviously a number of editors did not and have not contributed to that discussion yet. Sometimes issues like these can take months to iron out or longer. As soon as the image changed it rose to the level of visibility for me, and I suspect other editors as well. Had I seen previous discussion regarding an editor putting their own image, I would have explained how that was a really bad idea earlier. With the availability of several other images on Wikipedia commons that are better images of the topic, why would we want to complicate the article with editor contributed self images? As I said their is a big difference between an editor contributing an image of their local historic landmark for that Wikipedia page, and an editor producing a self-portrait of their penis for an article, even if it is on topic. We have an endless array of penis images available that will not cause an editor to lose objectivity and argue that "their" image should stay on the page.

I'm happy to discuss this further. I think discussing it from the perspective of what is best for the article overall will be the most productive for us. Atom (talk) 10:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Here is where several years back a long discussion on this topic resulted in this summary Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sexology_and_sexuality/WIP-image-guidelines#No_vanity_images.

Also, I noted that you are a photographer, were you the photographer for the image you are proposing for the Autofellatio article? Atom (talk) 10:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Let's just keep this to the article talk page instead of duplicating, and splintering, the discussion. Thanks. And no, I'm neither the photographer nor the model. In fact I have absolutely no connection to the photograph whatsoever. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 10:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

File:Rainwater harvesting system.svg

This image you created shows a system which makes rainwater drinkable for a house. Drinkable water is "potable", not "portable" as it is labelled in the SVG. If you go back and take a look at the hand drawn illustration you converted (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rainwater_harvesting_system.JPG), it is correctly identified as "potable". Tom (talk) 12:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

All sorted. I'm not up on this subject matter,and I couldn't make out the hand-writing so made a best guess... and got it wrong. Typical! I've uploaded a corrected version now. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 12:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Nice! Talk about prompt service! Tom (talk) 13:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I did change the font too in the hope that I could keep the text in editable form, but was prevented by the μ symbol not having an ascii equivalent :( --Fred the Oyster (talk) 13:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Whinging

Keep your mits off my pages. Moby-Dick3000 (talk) 00:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

They aren't your pages young master Dick. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 00:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Fred, if the page has to go it's going to have to go through AfD. Edit warring isn't going to change anything, just get the pair of you blocked for being tits. Nev1 (talk) 01:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Amen. Don't be one of those tits Fred. Malleus Fatuorum 01:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm off to bed to join some other tits, so he can have his little victory. I don't like to take away anyone's feelings of accomplishment, after all it's probably the highlight of his day. See you all at MfD tomorrow then :) --Fred the Oyster (talk) 01:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey Einstein

Don't you have something better to do? I'm just going tp keep restoring my sandbox. Moby-Dick3000 (talk) 01:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Enjoy it whilst you can. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 01:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

please undelete my grandpas birthcertificate

Hello, I don't know why you deleted my grandpas birth certificate. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:BirthCertificate_JamesMaximeDuPont.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1 It was scanned from his personal things from my father. It is more than 80 years old and therefore subject to public domain anyway!. I did not get your message, you had my mail on my talk page. I think you are a bit overzealous in your speedy deletion. please revert it. If I had gotten a mail from you I would have reacted immediately, but I did not. James Michael DuPont 05:44, 2 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdupont (talk • contribs)

I think there are a couple of things you should know. Firstly I'm not privy to your calendar so was not able to know that you weren't going to be around for the following 7 days after I left the notice, secondly, and more importantly I am a mere editor such as yourself. I cannot delete or reinstate any files or articles. For that you will need to contact the admin who did actually delete the image. The details of which will be available in the deletion log of the file in question. I don't recall the actual image but I'm guessing that the notice ws left because you hadn't given any copyright information on the image. That is your responsibility as uploader and given that you know it to be a public domain image then I fail to see why you didn't. After all it is explained in excruciating detail on the upload page. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 09:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Non Free Files in your User Space

Hey there Fred the Oyster, thank you for your contributions! I am a bot alerting you that Non-free files are not allowed in the user or talk-space. I removed some files that I found on User talk:Fred the Oyster. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

• See a log of files removed today here.

• Shut off the bot here.

• Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 00:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

IBM and the Holocaust

Hi. Your changes to the name of this article are against policy on the name of book articles. Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (books)#Precision.

Please restore the article to the title without the "(book)" qualifier. Factomancer (talk) 14:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Just wondered

Hello Fred the Oyster,

I just wondered, if, as a graphicist, you would permit me to ask if you would be able to SVGify this image. It wouldn't be protected by (UK) copyright (as I understand) because it is composed of a plain typeface, meaning there is no artistic input. So, it should be able to be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons.

I have some training in Adobe Photoshop but I can't find a matching typeface, and SVGs are beyond me. Would you be willing and able to help out? I'd be very grateful. Naturally, this would be for inclusion at the Greater Manchester County Council article. --Jza84 |  Talk  14:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd be happy to do it. I can even tell you what the font is, or at least give you two options. It all depends on whether the dot on the i in council is round or square. It looks like this image is a scan of a low quality print-out which makes it seem as if the dot is round, but I'm guessing it's square. As in a lot of big organisations in that era there was a resurgence in a particular font that gave the impression that the user of the font was modern, forward-thinking and 'fresh'. The font was originally called Akzidenz-Grotesk, but most people know it as Helvetica. It's used by millions of companies all over the world. This is why I think the font is actually Helvetica (bold for the GMC). Although if a round dot is required then Myriad Pro would do the job.

As an aside if you are into that sort of thing, typography that is, there is a film documentary available for DVD rental/purchase called Helvetica which is quite interesting (if a little sterile). It gives the history, and many examples of use, of the font. Only if you're a typography or design geek though :). So which do you reckon? A round dot or a square one? --Fred the Oyster (talk) 15:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Thanks for the help.

Showing my geekiness here... I think I've actually seen the Helvetica film. Was it shown on BBC four sometime? I suspected it was the typeface from that film, but I couldn't remember its name (I was searching for Arial). I always wanted to go into design, but got sucked into the Royal Mail and local government...

Looking very carefully at the back of the book I've scanned the logo off (which only appears about postage stamp size), it's difficult to tell if it was square or round. It looks round, and I'd put my money (just) on it being round, but it may appear round just a result of the printing. The text beneath the "GMC" looks like its possibly a different typeface anyway (comparing the Gs) - the best other example I've found is at this url. --Jza84 |  Talk  16:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree, looking more carefully I see that the lower text is actually rounded. I had initially thought that was down to the printing quality but now realise that it's too regular. Anyway, I've given it a try with the image above. I'll be happy to alter it in any way you feel may be appropriate. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 16:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

File:GMC logo.svg looks good. The only thing I think needs doing (just to be totally annoying), would be to make the bottom-right bit of the letter "G" into a square/verticle line rather than tapered. Is that possible? Otherwise looks spot on. --Jza84 |  Talk  17:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and the three letters in GMC appear a little more close together. :S I really must get to grips with SVG. --Jza84 |  Talk  17:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

What font did you use for the small lettering, Fred? I'm amazed how good you are at recognizing fonts, that's the hardest part with SVGizing logos. --Shandris^{the azylean} 18:07, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Fixed the file for you, Jza84. --Shandris^{the azylean} 18:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

In the end neither of us got it quite right so I created a 'custom font' to exactly match the GMC. I've changed the lower font because it was completely wrong. It wasn't Helvetica Rounded as I first thought. It's actually a combination of about three rounded fonts, Frutiger, Futura and Myriad. In the end I went with a font that had all of the elements of those three and is a close approximation, Arial Rounded. Hopefully this should now be close enough to pass muster. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 18:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

It's perfect, thank you. Sorry you had to go to so much trouble to what must appear to be quite a dull logo. I appreciate the help however, so thanks again. --Jza84 |  Talk  00:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

It's no problem. Vector art is a relatively new artform for me, so it's all a good learning process. Like you I'm more comfortable in the world of Photoshop and the raster image. I'm still not happy with the tracking of the lower font though. I may have a stab at doing some kerning adjustments tomorrow to tidy it up. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 00:47, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I do have to take issue with "the font was originally called Akzidenz-Grotesk, but most people know it as Helvetica"; that's a myth, which I think is perpetuated by the New York Subway's publicity department and their habit of switching back and forth between the two as their corporate font. While they're both blocky sans-serif fonts and look fairly similar at first glance, they're actually quite different; compare Akzidez and Helvetica side by side. The difference is most obvious in the upper-case Q and R, the ampersand and the number 7. – iridescent 14:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually I do know that, but rather than deliver a thesis on the subject I went for brevity. Grotesk was indeed the forerunner of Helvetica, even though they aren't identical. Without Grotesk there would have been no Helvetica. I can recommend Helvetica (film) for the full history by the designers themselves. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 14:23, 5 April 2010 (UTC)